Lumpectomy Lounge....let's talk!
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Shockedat48,
Thought and prayers to your friend. Good that she has you for support
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Rjmjt...I'll be thinking of you. Come back and give us the report!
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Rjmjt120- I hope you're sleeping and won't see my post until tomorrow. Hoping your surgery goes smoothly, and you'll be resting comfortably once at home. Hugs!
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Some rib pain and armpit pain and back on the shoulder blade pain can indeed be lymphedema. It is not just confined to the arm. I had very bad lymphedema that showed up mostly in armpit, side behind boob and rib cage under my boob. It is TENDER when your tissues are full of fluid (lymph). In bed when I lay on the bad side, it feels like I am laying on a knot. But it's fluid buildup in the rib cage below the underwire of my bra.
This resolved somewhat when I started doing stretches laying on the floor flat on my back and moving my arms around out to the sides or up above my head. It hurt like the devil! Have discovered I have cording now too. Ugh. It's worth a look at the lymphedema threads to see if the pain and swelling might apply to your situation. If a week of exercises helps with swelling and pain then you know that some of your discomfort is related to lymphedema. And not something worse - which is the leap the mind always makes!
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Hi Shocked,
I have the rib pain too! I have had it for a while, now 1+ year after radiation. I did get a bone scan to rule out mets and nothing was found. With the way it aches, and absolutely hurts at times, I can't believe there is no obvious evidence of cause. I was told by my surgeon that YES it can be from radiation. I have not been told it could be some version of lymphedema, but from what Runor has experienced I wonder if I need to ask again. I do feel that I am bothering my team by mentioning my aches, but it is serious to me! I was told by a nurse practitioner that she has heard people have gotten relief by spraying Lavender oil on the area. I have no idea if that works. Good luck in finding your answer. Let me know if you find any other solutions
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My MO says that the discomfort (never pain) I have on my rib cage, shoulder blade and arm are all part and parcel of my surgery. He thinks it is because things have been re-arranged by the surgery plus the node removal. He told me what to watch for for lymphedema. If I remember to stretch my "bad" side really good every morning before I get out of bed I don't seem to have problems. It's all peculiar.
HUGS!
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Today my rib pain is mostly gone! The pain comes and goes in intensitybut its always somewhat there. Just a lingering soreness when I lay on that side. I’m reassured that other woman have experienced this and it’s nothing serious.
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Thank goodness your rib is on the mend, Shocked. I was told to look out for signs of truncal lymphedema, but all I had was the sore spot without swelling. Then I noticed it was very "pinpoint" tenderness, with a tiny bruise. (Chest X-ray said not a fracture or mets). Went to Rigby & Peller for my biennial bra re-fitting, found my size had changed from 38 H/I in Elomi. Panache, Freya or Goddess to 40F in Empreinte & Third Love (40G in Prima Donna), and the bruise & sore spot disappeared once I switched to underwire bras without side boning. Those bras are expensive, but I baby them--rotating daily, washing (in a mesh bag in cold water on "gentle") after every third wearing, line-drying. I totally spaced on donating my old ones (decent condition, no longer fit) in Oct.--Rigby & Peller donates them to shelters--but I'll put them aside for the next time there's a "bra drive."
It's never a bad idea to look up "MLD self-massage," though. It's "manual lymphatic drainage," an extremely gentle technique (no more pressure than petting a skittish cat) that systematically guides pooled lymph fluid back towards the functioning nodes so it osmoses into the bloodstream and eventually through the kidneys and eliminated via urination. I had cording & "subclinical" (aka Stage 0) arm lymphedema in the months after finishing radiation, so I went to see Dr. Joseph Larry Feldman (I call him "the lymph whisperer"), a pioneer in lymphedema research and advocacy/activism--who practices at the hospital where I get almost all my care. He took measurements (tape measure & water displacement) and authorized 12 PT/OT sessions, where I learned MLD, exercises and proper compression-wear technique. The therapists gave me a "Swell Spot" pad to wear in my bra 24/7 (yes, I used to sleep in a leisure bra), which shrank my seroma back to the size of the original tumor cavity.
Even though Dr. Feldman discharged me as a patient (saying my LE is in full remission), I still take normal precautions--no needles, blood pressure cuffs or tourniquets on that arm; try to avoid cuts, scratches & burns and treat them right away if I get them; always cover up or sunscreen that arm when outdoors and wear insect repellent outdoors from spring through the first hard frost; wear compression sleeve & gauntlet whenever exercising any more strenuously than walking; and wear compression on any flight >4 hrs--donning it an hour before takeoff and removing it an hour after landing. Because I have a few different sleeve/gauntlet sets, wash & dry them after every other wearing and don't need to wear them every day nor for more than an hour (except on long flights), I haven't had to replace any of them.
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Had Surgery 3 weeks ago... 1.3 cm tumor at 6:00 removed under my breast with a sentinel node removed. Healing seemed to be great... went home with 30 Hydrocodones and used 6 the first two days. After that pain was manageable. I've had to take maybe one or two a day since then, usually bedtime to help me sleep and possible mid morning to help through the day if I felt I needed one.
However, I just took my 4th one today. I've only a half dozen left and am worried why I might be having this kind of pain 3 weeks after surgery. My breast is not showing any bruising...the incisions look to be healing well...there is some swelling and redness directly below the nipple that has me wondering as the nipple was not involved in the surgery and the swelling there is new. The affected breast also looks larger then the normal breast too, and since I'd not noticed that much difference before I'm wondering if there could be swelling within the breast and that's where the pain is coming from?
Has anyone else experienced pretty serious pain after three weeks of only light to moderate pain following surgery? Radiation isn't until the 28th so won't see the BS until then when he will set the Savi device. I guess I'm hoping to hear this is normal pain three weeks after surgery and will let up soon.0 -
Not so much serious "pain" as swelling. Welcome to the wonderful world of seromas. Nature abhors a vacuum (so do my cats); so when internal tissue--such as lymph nodes, tumors, and surrounding tissue--is removed, fluid rushes in to fill it. The fluid is "serous" (as in the clear "serum" that comprises most of blood), hence, the carcinoma and the lymph node(s) is replaced temporarily by this liquid "-oma." (not all things that end in "-oma" are tumors). Add to that phenomenon the surgical "insults" to your muscles, nerves, fat, blood vessels, etc., and you get inflammation--so your breast and armpit might certainly enlarge for awhile. Ask your surgeon how to deal with this before radiation starts--your plans for brachytherapy might have to change to external rads, to minimize the chance of further inflammation or even infection.
Here's my experience with this. (WARNING--THIS IS GONNA BE LONG):
On 9/23/15, I had a 1.3cm tumor removed from my R breast at "10:00" (in baseball talk, "high & outside"). Two sentinels "lit up" but two non-sentinels were attached to them, so there was no way to leave them behind--therefore, four nodes were removed. I had two seromas: one in the tumor cavity ("mammary") and the other in the part of the armpit closest to the breast from where the nodes were removed ("axillary" seroma). I had some upper-body muscle soreness for a couple of days post-op--called "scoline syndrome," from the muscle relaxant succinylcholine, administered just before making the incision, so I would lie perfectly still on the table. Remember how in physics class you learned "every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction?" Well, before the muscles could relax, for a brief instance they had to contract intensely--so for a couple of days I felt like I had just started weight training by bench-pressing 100 lbs.
Anyway, all went swimmingly for 2-1/2 weeks. The steri-strips had fallen off the lumpectomy incision, but a few still clung to the sentinel-node biopsy (SNB) incision. I had my initial consult with my radiation oncologist, and we planned my "mapping" CT scan for the next day. He saw the Steri-Strips still on my SNB incision and said I could remove them, which I did. Next day was the CT scan. Again, everything hunky-dory--simulation ("sim") session for the next week, and rads to begin the week after that. Went home, and changed into my underwire bra, which felt fine.
The next day I got ready to go out shopping, stood on tiptioe and leaned over the bathroom sink to get a closer look in the mirror at the teeth I was brushing. All of a sudden I heard a hiss, sort of like when one of my former cats would spray-mark. I turned to scold my current cat--but he wasn't in the room. My blouse began to feel warm and I looked down at the floor--bloody serous fluid was dripping rapidly on to the rug. Grabbed a clean white washcloth, then a clean white towel, then another clean white towel, stuffed it between my arm & pit, and called my surgeon's NP who told me to come in right away--don't bother with the ER, go straight to the Breast Health Center offices. Got a lift there from my housekeeper. Walked in, and the NP said "these things happen." (A week earlier the axillary seroma was about the size of a lime and I asked her if I shouldn't have it drained. "Oh, no," she said, "it'd only get infected"). By the time it burst it was the size of a small orange.
I asked, "what now?" She chirped, "oh, I'll just clean and pack it and you'll have to do that several times a day for the next 6 weeks so it can heal from the inside out." I was livid. "NOT gonna happen--I have concerts to do, including a conference in Iowa, and we need to start radiation on schedule because we're taking a nonrefundable Mediterranean cruise two weeks after it ends. I want this thing drained and sutured now!" She scowled. "Let me get Dr. W. (my surgeon's Dr. Y's partner--she was in the O.R. all day)."
In came Dr. W., who looked at it, whistled, and said, "better get this puppy sutured pronto." As he worked I kept hearing it gush. "No need to pop & drain it--that sound you hear is me pressing out the fluid." I asked him why it popped, and he replied that "the weight of your oversized breast" pulled it open, and no amount of surgical adhesive would have kept it closed long enough to heal. I asked if I shouldn't have had reduction surgery along with the lumpectomy, and he replied (diplomatically), "well, you weren't my patient at the time..."
A week later, I did my concerts & Iowa conference. A week after that, the sutures were removed. Next day I started the first of my 16 targeted external rads. I took that cruise. My breast (which had originally been the smaller of my pair) did swell on the outside, to the point where it surpassed the L one in size. A couple months of lymphedema (I had mild cording) OT & PT--during which time I was given a "Swell Spot" pad to wear in my bra 24/7 (for almost a year I slept in a leisure bra).
So here I am, more than 2 yrs. later. The axillary seroma is gone. The mammary seroma shrank to the size of the original scoop of tissue removed along with the tumor. My R breast is still quite large (but is the smaller one again), but unlike before my diagnosis it is round and perky and you can't even tell I had surgery...until you look at that L breast that hangs nearly to my waist like a basset hound's ear. You bet I'm gonna get it reduced to match the R one...when I can set aside the time. (For a retired person who does little to nothing, I'm surprisingly busy).
But let me put this into perspective. My seroma adventures sounded pretty gruesome, but they weren't. Except for the temporary breast enlargement, I sailed through radiation. I didn't even have "real" lymphedema (my LE doc called it "subclinical stage 0" only because I reported some finger swelling during the 7-hr, flight from Amsterdam-Detroit, and so Medicare would cover OT & PT sessions). Was it painful? Well, actually, not really at first and not at all thereafter. And despite that recitation of my adventures, I got off pretty darn easy. There are days when--except when I check these forums and take my letrozole pill--I forget I ever had breast cancer.
And guess what? When I got home from Dr. W's office, I Googled "exploding seroma." One of the links that came up was one titled "M-m-m-My Seroma" (ah, a fan of The Knack). And guess where it was? Breastcancer.org. Yup--were it not for that exploding seroma, I'd never have found this site--and this wonderful sisterhood!
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Dustien, you do need to call your breast surgeon. If you cast your eyes over your post-surgical directions I think you'll find that increasing pain is something you need to bring to his/her attention. I agree with ChiSandy that a seroma is the most likely cause of your issue, and while this is a common and relatively innocuous development, it may be something that your BS can--and should--easily deal with. In my case, a procedure located and repaired the bleeder, with radiation subsequently delayed only a week.
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ChiSandy - What a great story. I understand much now thanks for that! Glad all was well in the end with you and you didn't miss a thing (especially that cruise!). I certainly do not want to be brushing my teeth and have my breast blow up on me! Sounds gruesome for sure! I'm calling my Dr. today and find and find out if he thinks I should come in . I do NOT want to switch Brachytherapy for regular and give up all of my April and part of my May. Spring is my favorite time of the year and I just have to be out there being active in it!
I did read my post op papers the day I got home from surgery, Brookside, but didn't even think about looking at them now, so I did, and you are right. Should call the doc for sure. Thanks guys!
Dustie0 -
Today - on the first anniversary of my diagnosis - I went to see my RO. I told her how confused and unsettled I felt after my mammos and US. She had not received a report saying the radiologist wanted to send me for a biopsy of the left breast due to a cluster of microcalcifications. She just got the final report, saying it was benign. She understood my concerns and said that she'll send me for a bilateral mammo in six months; she thinks the first radiologist didn't have images to compare these new films to. The second radiologist apparently did and noted the microcalcifications had been there previously. So I guess I feel somewhat better. The RO did comment on how well I had healed!
MJ
P.S. My initial diagnosis was on March 13, given to me by my PCP as my surgeon was on vacation. However, the PCP only saw the DCIS in the report. I brought the report home and did exactly what you’re not supposed to do: I Googled every word in the report. So by the time I saw the surgeon on March 23, I was resigned to the diagnosis and understood what it meant
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Hi everyone! I am 30 years old, and relatively new here. I guess I am writing to get things off my chest? The past 3 weeks have been a roller coaster to say the least, but I have found comfort in this community and I am so thankful for everyone here! Long story short, I went back for a 6 month follow up appointment and themass showed up this time on the 3d Mam and US (it didn't last time, 6 months ago). Due to my strong fam hx of BC (mother and maternal great g-ma), my radiologist suggested a biopsy. The report was pretty vague and basically said because we can feel it, see it, and due to fam hx, we need to do a biopsy. He gave it a BIRAD 4, which freaked me out right away. Of course I Googled (eye roll) and became so anxious that I had to get an Ativan prescription. No one from the radiologist's office or my PCP ever explained to me what was found. It was torture. After meeting with my surgeon for a consultation appointment, we agreed to go with a lumpectomy. Because I wasn't given much feedback from my radiologist about what the dang thing even looked like, I was praying that my surgeon would be able to provide me with some sort of idea of what we are working with here. But, when he tried to look at my disc from the radiologist's office, his computer wouldn't read the program! Shoot! (I went with the more PG-13 version :P) He told me however, no matter what it looks like, it needs to be biopsied...and I agree! I just wish I had some sort of idea about my risk. So on March 23rd I will be having my lumpectomy and I think it is finally hitting me. I am mostly scared (terrified) about getting the results back. I was talking to my bestfriend on the phone and she asked, "Are you nervous about there being changes to your breast?" I guess I hadn't really thought about that, because to be honest that is like at the bottom of my priority list right now. But as I thought about it more I realized I have not even considered the other changes/ consequences of a lumpectomy. It is a lot to take in! It is crazy to think that just a month ago none of this was even real to me. I appreciate you listening! Truly a wonderful community.
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HI grl06c - welcome & good luck with the lumpectomy. Depending on where your lump is and the surgeon's technique, the cosmetic results can be very good. It's ok to care about the appearance- & it's also ok to not to care about it
We're all processing it differently.
I'm just curious why they're not doing a fine needle biopsy first, before the lumpectomy? Biopsy is usually a needle or core type thing done under a local freezing. Then if they decide to remove it, you have the lumpectomy & they do full pathology on the tumour.0 -
Hi Moth, thanks for the reply! I appreciate your feedback. We talked about the pros and cons of both a needle biopsy and lumpectomy. One of the things I asked was if there was an option to take the mass out. The thought of it in my breast is upsetting to me, regardless of what it is. That is when he mentioned the lumpectomy. He said that if it does turn out to be something, we would also be a step further. All around it felt more comforting to me to get it taken out. Besides the whole surgery thing!
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grl06c - sounds like a great plan! Makes sense if you're going to have it taken out anyways. fwiw my lumpectomy surgery was really not a huge deal. I needed to sleep the next day but after that was back up and walking and puttering around & mostly just needed icepacks & OTC meds after the first 36h.
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Wow, I’ve missed some good posts! Welcome to new folks; still less than 2 months here myself. ChiSandy, wet noodle—I cannot get My Seroma song out of my head now, lol. Great story you wrote there.
So, I’m 2 weeks past lumpectomy, and today was port day. Yesterday, I got my mixed bag of news—clear margins, no lymph node involvement. Yay!! But histology showed grade 3 and very aggressive on the tumor. Stupid tumor. With chemo, aromatase inhibitor, and Herceptin, I have excellent chance for no recurrence. Still, it’s scary to read what the Mammoprint details say (I’m one of those who devours the reports—love reading them). Have 3 various appointments before chemo in April.
Grl06c, that’s why we are here—chat away!
Dustien, did you get things checked?
Shocked, good news on rib pain. My lymph node scar is still itchy, but getting better daily.
Hope everyone is okay...will catch up soon
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So very glad to have found these community posts. I am new and will undergo my lumpectomy the week of 3/26. I am nervous but (unfortunately)/fortunately, I have several friends whom have been on this journey(multiple stages in friends). I have great support from them and my family. Thanks for being here and allowing us to share and gain knowledge.
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My surgery was 1/30. I healed well, only needed pain meds the first day. Now, things are so unsure. After my biopsy, I was told my tumor was 0.8cm, ER+, PR+, HER2-, grade 1. My pathology after the surgery came back 1.1cm, ER+, PR-, HER2-, grade 3, stage 1c. My oncotype test was 21. RO recommended partial breast accelerated radiation therapy- twice a day for 5 days, targeting only the surgery site, not the whole breast, at much higher radiation dose than traditional. My MO sent for mammoprint. He is unsure about chemo, since my surgery pathology showed quite a change from initial. Yesterday, I went for the radiation planning appt. I had already had the CT and been tattooed. The RO wasn't satisfied with the alignment, so I have to go back Monday for them to try again. If that doesn't work, then the radiation is on hold. If I do the one week plan, it has to be done before chemo. If I do the traditional radiation, it has to be done after chemo, so I have to get my mammoprint results for that decision to be made. I feel like I'm in limbo again, much like the feeling after you've been told you need a biopsy, then waiting for results. I just want a definitive answer, so I can get started on treatments. I want to get thru with cancer, and on with my life!
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dlj140- I'm hoping you get lined up properly and get on with the rads. My Onco was 19, gray area, I chose no chemo and in the end MO agreed no chemo. I had 16 hypofractionated accelerated rads. Monday will be here before you know it, prayers you move forward. The waiting is very stressful. HUGS!
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dlg140 - Also sending you hopeful, healing thoughts and hugs. My Onco was in the grayest of grays (exact words of my BS), & he was fine with no chemo, so that was good enough for me. Had 16 rads + 4 boost to tumor bed. Now on AIs for 5 years. Waiting is very hard, especially in re: the chemo/no chemo decision.
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My lumpectomy was on 2/23 and I feel great except for still having hypersensitivity in the nipple and incision area. Nipple is definitely the worse of the two. Every time I get shiver, wash my hands, etc. it's like a small shock through my wayward boob. Wearing a compression bra to exercise is extremely uncomfortable for the first 45 minutes and then just uncomfortable after that. I'm hoping to round the corner soon. Plus I ended up with Mondor's cords after the lumpectomy, so that's been a hassle. I definitely felt better week 1 vs week 3 post-surgery.
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ReadyAbout: I had horrible nipple pain/sensitity on both sides after surgery. After about a month it went away. I thought it might be related to going off birth control pills after so many years on it. I did read that could be a side effect online. I then had bad nipple pain on the radiated breast after about a week of radiation therapy. I thought I would die (being a little dramatic here) but it got better about a week after radiation ended and it’s been fine since. Good luck, it will be over soon
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grl06c and moth,
The needle biopsy was the absolute WORST part of this whole BC thing for me. So, grl06c, please just forget about it and be glad you're just going to be moving on to the lumpectomy. If I'd have had that choice, I'd have taken it...knock me out, take out the lump and relevant lobes, clear the margins, check it all out, do whatever you do in there, wake me up later and let me know!
DISCLAIMER: Not that the needle biopsy was so horrific that the average person couldn't live through it, because the average person could. I don't want to scare anybody off who may be getting a needle biopsy, but it was the worst part for me because it was done in-office, out-patient with lidocaine and I hate needles and I needed a lot of lidocaine. (I get gas at the dentist to have my teeth cleaned, for example...)
Keep us posted, grl06c!
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CindyNY, I had/have similar diagnosis and treatment as yours. I'm a year ahead of you. Diagnosed October of 2016. Oncontype 19, chose no chemo. Oncologist agreed. I don't remember how much radiation I had, but when I think about it, it had to be around 2.5 to 3 months. Right, not left breast. AI I take is letrozole, no side effects.
ReadyAbout, yeah, I had that nipple sensitivity too.
I had a little bit of sensitivity and I had some minor swelling and redness after surgery and had to take an antibiotic in case of infection and some redness and I even had some orange peel-looking skin that really freaked me out after Googling it! from motorcycle riding (bouncing around) that I worried about after radiation, but that turned out to be nothing, so no real side effects after surgery and radiation.
And by the way, my boobs look just fine now. (the lump was on the underside of my breast, attached to my nipple, so just a little disfiguration.)
So, grl and bauer, you can do this!!!
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ReadyAbout - I have the opposite problem - lost all sensation in my nipple and it's pulled in and hard. I'm hoping it subsides over time.
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MO-Beth: I had my mammogram then ultrasound and then biopsy on the same day. My needle core biopsy was horrible because the Doctor told me right before he started to stick me with needles that he believed I had cancer and even if this came back negative he would order a surgical biopsy because he was so sure. As I lay there in shock, by myself, thinking that I could be dying, he kept sticking needles in me. It was quite horrific, it felt like I was being violated. I wish he had informed me afterwards. It would have made it much easier to bear.
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Shocked,
I'm so sorry you were by yourself! I didn't know they were going to do the biopsy either when I went in for the mammogram. I didn't have an ultrasound. My sister went with me at the last minute. I didn't tell anybody I was going, but she called while I was getting ready. My needle-sticker was a female and the comforter was also female, a lady named Jan, and they were both very, very nice, but the procedure was still not fun. Everybody I've had along this journey has been very nice, actually. All have been female, except one radiation technician. That hadn't even occurred to me until just right now. Not that it matters...but....hm...interesting.
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Shocked, I wish I could have had all the diagnostic stuff (incl. core biopsy) done in one fell swoop!
I had my annual routine screening mammo 8/17/15, and the next day the report was in my portal--it said "BIRADS 0: focal density not present on 2014 & 2013 mammograms; recommend spot compression diagnostic mammo &/or ultrasound." Called to make that appt. and they told me I'd have to wait almost two weeks, which would have fallen during an important legal ed. conference & music business trip which trip (and two gigs) I'd have had to cancel. Begged & pled my way into getting in five days later, 8/23. Had the spot mammo, which radiologist read and then had me go down the hall for an ultrasound. Radiologist reclassed it BIRADS 4 and recommended biopsy. I asked if I could get it done right then & there, as I was flying to NOLA the next day; but she said no because they like patients to be off all blood-thinning meds (e.g., aspirin therapy, fish oil) for 5 days prior. I then asked if I needed to cancel my trip and she said no, the biopsy could wait till my return 10 days later. Core-needle biopsy, done 9/8, was not at all painful--barely felt the lidocaine going in. Diagnosed the evening of 9/9. Lumpectomy 9/23.
(Irony was that I could have had the biopsy a week sooner: the gig that my singing partner & I were supposed to play in Scranton the day after I flew out of NOLA was never pencilled into the venue's calendar, because the person who'd scheduled it immediately after we finished the previous year's concert left and took the appointment calendar with her). Took us three more days to drive back to Chicago, then had a local folk festival to play & emcee over Labor Day weekend (Sun-Mon.). My legal ed conference had ended on a Sat. aft., but because the gig wasn't till Tues. I stayed in NOLA till Mon. morning. Had we known the venue dropped the ball (or had my partner--who does the bookings--called ahead to confirm and found out), I could have flown straight home from NOLA to Chicago Sat. evening and had my biopsy on Mon., more than a week before I ended up having it. (Not to mention the cost of those extra hotel nights). But all in all, having my lumpectomy only a little more than a month after the routine annual screening mammo was a decently short timetable.
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