Lumpectomy Lounge....let's talk!
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I noticed something odd, or at least unexpected, today. When I am braless, there is a significant difference in droopiness between my breasts, with the lumpectomied one being shorter. Most of my bras disguise the difference, or so I thought. I was wearing a stretched-out leisure bra around the house today, and decided to try on some old sweaters to see how they fit (lots of weight variations the last few years). The sweaters fit nicely (which for me means fairly loose), but looking down, and then in the mirror, I could see that the size difference was pretty noticeable. I'll need to try them with different bras, but most of mine are on the unstructured side - no underwires or stiff fabric. Now I need to decide if I have to sacrifice my comfy bras to disguise the asymmetry, or go publicly and proudly lopsided. For some reason, I hadn't even thought about this since the July lumpectomy. And for the first time, I thought that "partial mastectomy" is a more descriptive term than "lumpectomy."
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Alice - I'm very small breasted, so since LX on left breast then rads, my left breast sits higher, more "perky" so to speak. This means my nipples are at total different levels! Not real noticeable most of the time, but plenty of times I don't wear a bra, maybe wear a tank w bra shelf. I figure if someone is so conscious of where my nipples are, they're the crazy one & its on them. I'm happy to still have 2. 😊
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I'm not small, a D or DD depending on brand of bra. Age and gravity prevent me from going braless in public, and it's not that comfortable in private unless the house is cold enough so I don't perspire. And since my nipples have never been at the same latitude, I've always worn a bra and mooshed them around to achieve a semblance of evenness. Luckily I have soft flat nipples so they seldom make their presence known. I guess I may go back to the rolled-up sock I used for pressure and softness after the lumpectomy.
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When I'm braless at home, I have a linen-textured paper towel beneath each breast to minimize the sweat and help stave off rash or even a fungal infection. But unless I;m wearing something oversized, the difference in size & droopiness is quite noticeable. In my leisure bras, I will pad the right cup with removable pads from an old Genie bra that never fit me. In regular underwire bras (whether molded cup or just seam-constructed multi-part cups), you really can't tell unless my neckline is so low you can see the cleavage skew to the right (and quite frankly, with my scoliosis, everything that's supposed to be vertical skews right--you can really tell when my necklaces hang perfectly plumb).
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Right now, I'm not even sure how to buy a regular bra. I've lost weight in the last year, so I may have to get new ones - but measuring will be different for sure. I can go back to the sport bras in winter because they won't show under higher-necked sweaters and sweatshirts, but I'm not sure what to do come spring and scoop necks. And I don't have the budget to go to bra stores for help; Target is a splurge for me.
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Measuring sounds like a great idea on paper, but it rarely works in the real world because it doesn't take into account asymmetry, breast shape and even positioning. The only way to accurately fit a new bra is by an experienced fitter in a bra store--or the bra department of a major department store (Nordstrom has the best fitters). The fitter has to see you in one of your own bras and note what's wrong with it: slipping straps (although that's a tough one to correct if you're round-shouldered), center gore not lying flush with your cleavage (i.e., producing a "uniboob" or "shelf" profile--which indicates cups are too small); back riding up (indicates band size is too big); "back fat" (band is too tight & likely small); "side boob" or "bat wings" (cups are either too small or the wrong shape--you might need a full-coverage or higher-side bra rather than a "balconnet" or plunge); "quad-boob" (your breasts run over the top--again, cup too small or bra wrong style).
The average woman in the U.S. is wearing at least one or two cup sizes too small and one or two band sizes too large. The latter is because as band sizes go up, so does the actual volume of a given cup's letter designation. Therefore, there's an imperfect workaround called "sister sizing." If your ideal size is, say, a 38F, and your store carries nothing larger than a DDD, in order to get a cup you can fit into, you would need to buy a 40DDD, 42DD, or 44D. But the back will ride up too high and your breasts will sag. (Viewed from the side, the fullest part of your bust profile should, if you bend your elbow and hold your forearm horizontally, fall between your shoulder & elbow). The support should come mainly from the band, and secondarily from the cups. You should not have to rely on the straps for that.
You're going to have to splurge--at least Target. You will have to try on a whole bunch of bras in the fitting room and assess the above factors quite critically. Don't settle. You are highly unlikely to find anything larger than a DDD (maybe even DD) in the band size you need, nor any colors other than white, beige or maybe black in larger cups than D. There are no experienced saleswomen at Target--the woman stocking the lingerie racks or running the fitting room might have been working handbags or groceries last week. You will get absolutely no meaningful or informed help whatsoever, Forget Wal-Mart. Period--unless you found a brand and size that fits you perfectly elsewhere and might find a second or third one cheaper there.
The only way to do this accurately and economically is to go to a website like BareNecessities, HerRoom, ThirdLove or FigLeaves that has a no-questions-asked free returns policy. (And it will take time and a few false starts and shipping-return cycles). All of the first three have interactive "fit quizzes" where they ask what size and brand is the best-fitting bra you own or have experienced, the orientation and shape of your breasts, symmetry vs. asymmetry, whether the back of your bra rides up or the center gore pooches out in the front, etc. There are illustrations that make it easier to determine your breast shape & orientation. Based on that, the algorithm will suggest what your true size is (including something called "universal cup size," which uses D as the reference point and anything larger as D2, D3, all the way up to D8 if necessary. If you are smaller than a D, you probably can get away with shopping at Target...in person). Not only that, if you find something on sale you really like and that is recommended for your bust type, these sites will tell you which sizes (band and cup) in which brands are equivalent. For instance, I wear a 40F in Empreinte because Empreinte has more generous cups, 40FF in Elomi, Goddess or Chantelle, 40G in ThirdLove, 40H in PrimaDonna and 42G in Wacoal because Wacoal tends to run smaller in the band. (Bali, Warner, Olga, Maidenform, Playtex, Exquisite Form--the latter two make mostly unfashionable wire-free "granny bras"--or other mainstream U.S. brands make nothing above a DDD or even DD). HerRoom also has a live chat window where you can get one-to-one help. ThirdLove sells only through its own website but has an unlimited return policy and both e-mail and phone help with fitting.
Here's where a bra store (or even some Nordstroms) really shines: if you have to go a band size larger to get a well-fitting cup, they'll shorten the band for you for free. (In a pinch, if you find a good cup but the back is too short, you can try a bra-extender but it might make the straps so wide-set that they'll slip). Buy one bra in person. Then look online for that brand & model in another color at a better price. Even Amazon, Big GirlsBras and eBay might surprise you.
Ideally, you should have two beige bras to rotate (never wear a bra two days in a row; and then wash it after the third wearing), If you can afford it, a seamless-cup "T-shirt" bra (your sports bra could double as this) and one "date night" bra--black, color, lacy, etc. (Or white, if your significant other has a naughty-nurse fetish). Otherwise, a white bra is worthless because it's not versatile--it will show through all but the thickest fabrics and highest necklines. Beige--as close to your own skin tone--is the most versatile because it'll still be basically invisible through sheer blouses, and not as noticeable if your neckline is a bit low. Black is good for if you're wearing a sleeveless black top with larger armholes or low neckline. But it will be plainly visible through a sheer black blouse. Contrasting bras showing--especially the straps--is for millennials.
If you are African-American or otherwise have dark skin, your "flesh tone" or "nude" would be dark tan or brown. Third Love has 5 different "nude" tones, from alabaster all the way through dark brown.
(Note: Forget about Empreinte, Prima Donna, Freya, Panache, or Chantelle unless they're at deep, deep discount--most of them cost around or even above three figures. Drop hints at Christmas or your birthday or if you get a small windfall. Elomi, Goddess and ThirdLove have the best combination of quality, fit & price--not to mention color variety. Wacoal is occasionally discounted deeply enough. And if you're smaller and don't need underwires, you might find the right bra in even an off-brand at Target...or even Wal-Mart, if you can try it on and take your time till you're satisfied).
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I primarily wear padded cotton-ish camisoles I've gotten at Walmart. I'm small - an A. However, this summer I was actually wearing bras (not fond of the headlight look) - with my tank tops and sheerer t-shirts (we don't ever dress up in Spokane). I had no bras that were right so bought 2 at Penney's (after trying on, of course). Then I bought a bundle of bra extenders. Now I can wear all the cute Victoria Secret bras that are old and colorful and the cups fit even if the bands don't. I got the bra extenders at Amazon. Many of the Vickie's bras are one hook narrow bands and this bundle had the exact right size.
You'd think that by now bra makers would be able to fit us after a century of making bras. Wonder if they ever thought of measuring REAL women rather than models with perfectly shaped boobs (that has never described mine!). Luckily my breasts seem to be about the same size (probably because my bad one has some extra fluid sloshing around) and that helps. Even with a downward pointing nipple.
Good luck, Alice!
HUGS
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After my lumpectomy I went down a size from F to double D. At first there was nodifference between my breasts and my affected breast actually got bigger during radiation. I thought, great you can’t tell at all! Well, after healing from both radiation and surgery my breast does rest a few inches higher than my healthy breast. I actually prefer the smaller size. I wear underwire molded cups and it’s barely noticeable under clothes. If I wear bras without molding and a tighter top it’s noticeable but I figure who cares. I have a friend that has two hugely different sized breasts naturally. It’s very common to be asymmetrical.
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Wow, that's way more bra thinking than I could ever wrap my head (or boobs) around! I prefer beige, peach, or other pale-person skin-tone bras. I always get the somewhat stretchy bras but with some support, either in the straps or an under-cup extra fabric. I think I'm convinced that going lopsided is easier than obsessing over it.
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I second ChiSandy’s advice about professional fittings. I went to Nordstrom’s a few years ago needing a bra to wear under a bridesmaid’s dress. I had been wearing the wrong size for years! A properly fitting bra is actually comfortable. I bought a bra from Third Love this summer. Their online quiz was easy and accurate. I’m still wearing Coobie bras- I’m 2 months out from surgery and 1 1/2 week out from radiation. I have some swelling, and underwires are just not comfortable yet. Your folded sock idea is a resourceful idea. Good luck
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True & Co. also has some nice comfy-looking wirefree bras, with the same fit-quiz on its site, for a decent price. Alas, I don't think they offer anything beyond a 40D (or C in 42 or 44).
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RE: Bras - Never was a big fan of underwire or heavily structured bras. One of the original go-braless fans & still go braless as much as possible when at home. Lucky for me, am between a B and C cup. Have had zero luck with "traditional" bras for many years. Wear bras like Bali Comfort Revolution Flex Fit. Lumpectomy/Radiation had unperceptible in clothing effect on left breast. The girls are still pretty perky, even at age 64.
Believe Kohls has bra fitters & could be a budget friendly option for a fitting.
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ChiSandy: (takes notes) Thank you for the essay on bra fitting, where to go (and not!).
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By 9th grade I was a C, and by freshman year in college, a D. (I don't think I saw any cups bigger than that in stores).
When I was in college (and a size 8--which would be a 4 today), Mademoiselle magazine had a "can you burn your bra?" test. Basically, if you put a pencil under your breast and it fell out, you could kiss your bra goodbye (if you wanted to). I tried that, and the pencil stayed there. Tried it with a fat poster-size Magic Marker. Stayed put. Next up was a Minute Maid frozen orange juice can. It stayed put. My bras lived to lift another day.
Now, I could probably snugly fit a Quaker Oats canister or even a coffee can under there...
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Queen, next time you visit Chicago, try Rigby & Peller (formerly Intimacy) in the 900 N. Michigan bldg. Best fitters in town!
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(jots down the name) Thank you.
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ChiSandy - I remember that pencil test & failing it for many years. Too funny! Incidentally, the pencil stays put, now. However, I still like to be braless once I am home from the office.
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ChiSandy - I remember that pencil test & failing it for many years. Too funny about what you could put there today. I just tried the test with a pen (who uses pencils these days?) and uh oh, it stayed put. However, I still like to be braless once I am home from the office.
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Hey ladies. Question about WLE and pain...is a strong stabbing pain even at rest "normal" (I know everyone is different but just wondering)? I'm certainly feeling better, and am taking it gently as much as I can, but am getting quite strong pain (enough to make me stop doing what I'm doing, if I am doing anything). Sometimes even the position of my body seems to make it hurt. I have strong medication which makes me very sleepy but doesn't always help. Maybe it's just something I need to wait out?
Also, how do you manage showering? I am thinking sponge bath is way to go...but I REALLY need to wash my hair, and that ain't gonna help...!
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Sparrowhawk I just turned the shower head to it's softest setting and kept my back to it.i waited a few days before I did that. I'm 3.5 weeks out from surgery and still get the occasional stabby pain under the incision and under my arm.
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ChiSandy, thanks for that! I needed a good laugh! :-)
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Do you have anyone to help? Lifting my arm was very painful plus I had a drain. My husband joined me in the shower to help or washed my hair over a sink. I do not feel human without my hair washed!!
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Yup, those sharp stabbing "shocky" pains are normal, even at rest. When you have a lumpectomy (even a WLE), nerves get cut. Nerves are one of the few organs that repair themselves--and when they reconnect ("closing the circuit"), you get those "zaps."
Celia, I go braless around the house when I'm in my nightgown, but if I don't keep a paper towel or piece of t-shirt material between my underbreast and midriff, if I go braless for too long I get a sweaty and sometimes yeasty (ugh) rash--and then I have to use a nystatin-triamcinolone cream or ointment. (TMI).
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Thank you! Humanness restored after washed hair! My incision is right on the side of my breast, not in front, so I had to be careful things didn't get wet that shouldn't be too wet.
Thanks for the info about stabby pains. Very reassuring to know they're normal! Getting heaps of them at rest (was playing cards earlier today and felt like someone was hacking into me) but I'm doing okay and still using medication if needed. Walking helps a lot. I walked almost 7km today, just at work, and feel really good.
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I have 4 days out of surgery, and the oncologist has called wanting to see me before the end of November. It is at a clinic at a hospital, so you all know I am in Canada and there is always a wait. Do you all think he is going to tell me good news or bad
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Dyannah, fingers crossed for good news!
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My fingers crossed for you too, Dyannah!
I had my surgery Oct 18. Follow up with nurse practitioner, just to check the healing, on Oct 31. She called maybe the day before with the results of the pathology. It took so much longer than I expected - that's not in Canada either. So from here to the end of November doesn't sound too different... I have my first meeting with radiation and medical oncology this Friday the 16th, basically a full month after surgery.
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Sending the good-health vibes your way, Dyannah. Salamandra, I'm originally from Brooklyn (lmoved west in 1971 the day after our wedding). Grew up in Brownsville & East Flatbush (pretty hardcore--not the hip part of the borough, the hip-hop part. Probably next to the last neighborhoods that will ever gentrify. Your profile seems identical to mine--hoping you get at least as low an OncotypeDX score as I did.
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Just another question: today (6 days after surgery) my breast feels really tender and very firm. It feels like there is a solid mass where my lump was. I had to keep the dressing on until my follow-up appointment (in two days) so no idea how it's looking under there. Is there anything recommended to do to help it or it's something I'll probably need to wait out? I'm wearing bra pretty much 24/7 (though forgot last night) and trying not to lift heavy stuff. I'm doing pretty well and am not really worried about this; just wanting to help recovery as best I can.
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Sparrowhawk, I still have a lump on top of the incision. I guess it takes a while, even months, to go down. My RO was not concerned except for maybe needing to adjust the dose of radiation if the swelling goes down during tx.
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