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My choice--refusing treatment

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  • Cath78
    Cath78 Member Posts: 9
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    Hello and all the forces be with you. Please share your knowledge of dietary medication you will be taking. Foods that will discourage cancer to thrive or be killed off ?

    I am Her2+ estr.+prog and had a lump removed no spreading to any tissue or lymph so I said no to 1-10 yrs of preventitive treatment thank you. I am determined to keep it away, finding the best diet to starve cancer cells and prevent growth. Linseeds no dairy no meat no sugar turmeric alkalising the body stimulating gut performance lots of positive selflove work and exercising.

    Anyone have anything to add ? :-)!!

  • Cath78
    Cath78 Member Posts: 9
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    Totally agree.

    My Oncologist was informative and not pushy ,completely leaving it to me though, we were not dealing with an actual cancer anymore just the ..incase of. They did call everyday after I said I will not have any treatment to make sure I was reeeeally sure I didn't want treatment! I wish they would be more supportive and helpful with knowledge of how cancer is formed and could be prevented and treated with foods etc..but they don't seem to ever be knowledgeable on these matters or want to share the info. Just content in pushing us to the pharmaceutical path. Anyway it's how they are trained and science is only part of the story. Educate yourself listen to your body change your 'story'

    Blessings x

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 1,032
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    Cath78, cancer is a cellular mutation. Eating well will help you in many, many ways, but it will not prevent cancer. Genetics and exposure to certain toxins are the major reasons why we get cancer (I have a three generation maternal history of the disease, and was a vegan for 10 years before diagnosis). If I got it, anybody can, no matter how well they eat.

  • Paisleyskies
    Paisleyskies Member Posts: 7
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    I completely respect your opinion regarding not getting treatment. I think making that decision has a lot to do with personal beliefs, staging, age, and where you are in life.

    As a 35 year old with a 2 year old, I will go through anything and I mean ANYTHING so I am around to see him grow.

    Also, from personal experience it is definitely a fight, just not a fair one!

    Best of luck with your journey.

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 771
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    Paisleyskies...I completely agree with you. The decisions we make about our treatment are very personal. I was 62 at diagnosis with 2 grown children and 1 y/o twin grandsons. I also have a debilitating autoimmune disease. I have refused chemo and anti hormone treatment. Had I been younger with small children I know my decision would have been different. This is exactly why we can't question others' decisions. We just need to respect them. Good luck to all navigating this complicated disease.

  • meow13
    meow13 Member Posts: 1,363
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    I wish I was better informed about aromatose inhibitors before I started taking them. I wish I had the same health I had when first diagnosed with cancer.

  • lilacblue
    lilacblue Member Posts: 1,425
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    This is a public forum and we can question decisions expect within Stage IV threads, unless we are also Stage IV. Please move off the moral high ground that the alternative thread tends to entrench it's self on. There is a difference between questioning and shaming, adding disrespecting. Reviewing what has been posted thus far, women 50+ years having been diagnosed with Stage II or below, seem content to not have active treatment (with the exception of medical intervention to remove cancer) and use diet as a means of treatment or keeping recurrence at bay. One woman below age 50 with a young child with Stage III was patronizingly told: " .. we can't question others' decisions. We just need to respect them. " There was not one iota of disrepect in this women's experience within her response, yet offered to think so as it's not part of the alternative herd mentality.

    Everyone has the right to refuse medical treatment, and have the right to be armed with facts about alternative cancer treatment they have chosen. In some cases – particularly chemicals found in plants and other foodstuffs – there may be lab studies suggesting it has an anti-cancer effect. But many things can kill cancer cells growing in a petri dish in the lab, and chemicals that seem promising in the lab or even in animal models of tumors can be disappointingly ineffective when faced with the real deal in a cancer patient. There are plenty of 'miracle cures' out there and there's very little evidence that any of them actually work. Questioning is what anyone considering non-medical cancer intervention can do -- dig deep into why they believe an alternative path will work for them, learn the facts, review if any, research and data of bold claims of "cancer cures".

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 771
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    Lilacblue.....if you were referring to my post and using the word questioning, you took it completely wrong! I was just saying that no one really knows all the facts that go into our personal treatment choices. We need to respect and support all

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 337
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    lilac blue: are you posting on the correct thread? It seems cancer is not curable anyway/how, those ned for decades may have had calcifications which would never have progressed and shouldn't have had harsh treatment. people on this thread as on conventional threads mostly seek to postpone further trahma

  • lilacblue
    lilacblue Member Posts: 1,425
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    I did read your post dtad feel free to think/say what you desire. I find it best to read the words on screen, not the white space and have no defense regarding patronizing remarks. Abigail48, for whatever it's worth, I do try to have compassion for your misguided troll 'ish responses, wherever you post on BCO.

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 1,032
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    LilacBlue, I wish I could rec your post. But maybe I just have! ThumbsUp

  • moderators
    moderators Posts: 8,287
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    Hi ladies,

    As you all know, we consistently try to maintain a welcoming, warm, and positive environment in our amazing Discussion Boards. Please remember this forum is a safe, judgement-free place to discuss Alternative medicine. If you are not here to discuss Alternative Treatments in a civil, judgement-free manner, please move along to another forum.

    Thank you each for your cooperation!

    The Mods

  • meow13
    meow13 Member Posts: 1,363
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    I have another SIL just diagnosed with DCIS and a small 1.5 mm invasive part er and pr + her2-. She asked me about my thoughts on seeing a naturopath doctor. She was suprised that I said I thought it was a good choice. She doesn't want hormone therapy. I told her everything I knew after 5 years of dealing with this disease. I still might look into it for myself. My husband's family are traditional medical people and don't see much value in alternative care. Now that I am off traditional treatment I am thinking more about my life and how I eat and exercise. I eat a healthy diet and exercise everyday so I feel good about that but maybe I should be looking at natural occuring plants that may reduce my estrogen. I asked my doctor he doesn't know any naturopath doctor he would recommend. I live in the Seattle area southend, can anyone recommend someone?

  • macb04
    macb04 Member Posts: 756
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    Someone I used to see, who is a very smart Naturopath, Dr Jeannine Wilmes. I am not seeing her or anyone now, no reflection on Dr Wilmes care. I was very broke for a long while, and just couldn't afford to go see someone my husbands restrictive insurance wouldn't pay for. She is an Oncology trained Naturopath. She lives and works a bit North of Seattle. I found her to be an extremely smart, kind woman.

  • hopeful_36
    hopeful_36 Member Posts: 11
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    I am so glad to find your post, monetswaterlillies. It looks like this forum is against alternative treatment, hence the scarcity of such posts, I believe.

    I am too refusing conventional treatments. I had multifocal DCIS at age 32 and went for mentally traumatic double mastectomy to cut the risk of recurrence to 1-2%. 4 years later I found a new lump on the chest wall - IDC stage 1A (age 36). I had a lumpectomy about a week ago. Haven't seen an oncologist yet, but was highly recommended 28 sessions of rads to begin with also covering neck and armpit lymph nodes. I refused it. The surgery didn't get all clear margins, but actually also identified another spot of DCIS. Surgeon is highly insisting on re-excision for clean margins, especially given my refusal of rads. I am still thinking.

    I expect the MO to push for rads, chemo and Tamoxifen. I will refuse them all.

    I've been researching the subject of cancer for 4 years now, and have my reasons to believe that conventional treatments aren't the solution.

    I might re-excise one last time for clear margins, but might as well leave as it is. I intend to take aggressive alternative approach of enhancing my immune system to heal my body, as I am convinced - one's own immune system is the only solution with cancer. I will be getting vitamin C and mistletoe infusions, cannabis oil extract, get on supplements, and follow methionine restriction diet.

    The only other clinical treatment I am possibly open to is immune-cell therapy offered in Japan. They use patient's own blood to isolate immune cells, replicate them, and put back in the patient to fight off the cancer. The US version of "immunotherapy" still uses drugs with a chemo effect.

    I'll follow this thread closely. Thank you for starting it.

  • meow13
    meow13 Member Posts: 1,363
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    hopeful, sorry to hear tgat surgery alone didn't work the first time. We need to get better treatments for this disease.

  • leia
    leia Member Posts: 18
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    hopeful_36:

    You can see from my signature, my diagnosis/treatments. I had a lumpectomy in 2006, but no other treatments. And I was 52.

    Yes, this forum is against alternative treatments. Which is why I only come here, rarely.

    You did mention in your post a lot of great alternatives you will be pursuing to boost your immune system. Which is precisely the correct goal. But in my view, you missed an important one and that is your Vitamin D3 level.

    Please check out this web site:

    https://grassrootshealth.net/

    Most of the world's population is deficient in Vitamin D3; Less than 30 ng/ml. no wonder there is so much cancer and sickness.

    My latest D3 test was 90 ng/ml. And it has been consistently high over the last 11 years, since my breast cancer lumpectomy. And despite having no "treatments," the radiation, the drugs the whatever, I am cancer free. And totally healthy.


  • hopeful_36
    hopeful_36 Member Posts: 11
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    Leia, thank you so much for your inspirational post. I've been going through motions about my recurrence: some days I feel overly confident that I will be just fine, but others - any little ache in the body, my mind spins in all the scary "what if" stories.

    Re: vitamin D: I originally come from a country with 360 sunny days/year. So we don't usually have the issue. Tomorrow, I am having a vast blood work done based on integrative doc prescription (all vitamins, toxins, cancer profile, etc. vitamin D included). Based on the results, she'll update my supplement recommendations.

    Just now looking at the final pathology report, I see it saying "focally present lymph-vascular invasion", focally present perineurial invasion", "skeletal muscle present, focally involved by carcinoma". These all don't sound good to me..

    PS: Resources like this have been very helpful to me in reclaiming my power in the medical decision making this time around - http://lissarankin.com/9-key-factors-affecting-radical-remission-from-cancer

  • JesusIsmylight
    JesusIsmylight Member Posts: 2
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    I too had enough of reading and stressing over what to do after my lumpectomy for stage 1 TNBC, and I just can not do it. Yes, I'm young, yes I am braca, but who knows the future ? Side effects of ACT recommendation are just atrocious, in my opinion with no guarantee that it might still come back. I've read and read and am too tiered to decide, so I decided when one doesn't know what to do, maybe do nothing at all. Yet, there are moments when I feel I really love life and want to live. All this is so un fair, but all of you already know that. Thank you for reading my rent. Wish everyone here hope and health

  • meow13
    meow13 Member Posts: 1,363
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    I have decided against chemo as treatment. At the same time I have regular scanning and under my doctors care when I don't feel right I call. So far so good.

  • Pattigee
    Pattigee Member Posts: 1
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    I had a BMX and axilla dissection on my right breast and armpit in Aug/17, and my family and doctors want me to continue with traditional treatments, radiation, chemo, hormone treatments, etc. I do not want any more treatments and am waiting for a PET scan and results before I see my oncologist. If there has been no or little change in my cancer outlook, I will not take any further treatments. If there has been a change in my cancer outlook and it has progressed, I will not take any further treatments. It was more than enough for me to undergo the severe and painful BMX with resulting side effects, I will not subject myself to any more radical treatments. You can call me foolish and short-sighted, I do not care. I must do what is right for me. They tell me they got all my cancer with the BMX, sobeit. I will pursue an alternate healing course for myself. I was diagnosed with triple positive bc, they removed a large malignant mass from my right breast and 17 lymph nodes, 3 of which were malignant with one more trying to get out. A small malignant tumor was also discovered in my left breast so I'm glad I had the BMX, at least. I'll take 1-2 years survival (hopefully) rather than 1-2 years of physical torture from traditional medical treatments, as my cancer was aggressive and Stage 3A, anyway. I do believe it will recur no matter if I take treatments or not. That's my choice, anyway.

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 771
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    Pattigee...just want to lend my support in your decision not to have treatment. Its your body and your decision. There are no guarantees no matter what treatments you decide on. It's not always easy to go against conventional medicine. I wish you the best of luck. Be well.

  • 53nancy
    53nancy Member Posts: 295
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    I am glad to find this forum and see that I am not alone in struggling about treatment. I am TNBC, which leaves me with three choices - chemo and radiation, chemo OR radiation. no treatment. Because my lumpectomy was said to have removed ALL the cancer, and I was deemed node negative, and Bone Scan was negative, the only result pending is a Pelvic, Abdominal and Chest Scan. I have already decided that if that one is negative, I will refuse chemo. Now I am turning my thoughts to whether I should refuse radiation as well. If cancer returns, I cannot be refused treatment, but it is likely that if I have already had chemo and/or radiation, I would not get it a second time around. So the choice of no radiation will be a hard one to make. If there are still stray cells in my breast, radiation perhaps would kill it, but not damage the whole body; of course, there are side effects. Good luck, everyone, with your choice.

  • edwards750
    edwards750 Member Posts: 1,568
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    Wrestling with the decision to go the conventional route or not is a tough one but it’s definitely a personal choice. You don’t have to defend your choice - it’s yours to make. No one should dissuade you one way or the other. I’m sure the medical professionals will do their due diligence about conventional treatments but that’s their job to do that.

    Just so you know I elected to have radiation and take Tamoxifen. I also had a lumpectomy. Frankly I was afraid not to. I never considered not following their regime but that’s me. I am 6 years out last August. I had Stage 1b, Grade 1 IDC. My Oncotype score was 11. I took Tamoxifen for 5 years.

    Just be sure when you make that call you don’t second guess yourself or look back and say what if.

    None of us have guarantees.

    Diane

  • elainetherese
    elainetherese Member Posts: 1,632
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    53nancy,

    If you get radiation and chemo now, you can get them again later. You might not be able to radiate the exact same spot, or you might not be able to get certain chemos again (there's a lifetime limit on AC). But, there's no lifetime limit on many chemos (e.g., taxol and taxotere), and plenty of Stage IV patients get radiation multiple times.

    Good luck!


  • 53nancy
    53nancy Member Posts: 295
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    Edwards750, thanks for your reply. My excisional biopsy, which came about after an ambiguous needle biopsy which said probably benign, turned out to be a lumpectomy, and a High Grade DCIS and Grade 3 ID were discovered. If I had had a definite diagnosis before the biopsy, I would have elected for a BMX. It is now three and a half months since that biopsy and I still wait for treatment. The cancer is also Triple Negative, so I have done a lot of reading and thinking, and I STILL don't want to do chemo, in spite of the fact that the cancer could recur within a short time. If it recurs, I can ask for BMX then. That said, most info about TN found on line is three or more years old, so I will have to keep an open mind when I meet with CancerCare.

    Elaine Therese, as you wrote, I can do the chemo/radiation route later. Part of me says to go ahead with the radiation now, if it is an option, because it will target the area where the cancer was found, without treating the whole body with poisons. Radiation is poison too, I guess, but because of the scans I've had, I've been getting it already. Everything has proved to be negative so far - lymph nodes clear, bone scan clear - just waiting for results of Chest, Abdomen and Pelvic Scan, and I won't get those results until next week. I am keeping my fingers crossed that it will also be clear. The other part says to just live life to the fullest for the time left to me, and be thankful that I have it.

    Meanwhile, I am following my Alkaline Diet (which has brought my sugars down further, using therapeutic grade essential oils, vitamins and supplements to support my immune system, and walking, walking, walking. Today, I am meeting with a Yoga Instructor to learn some techniques for dealing with the Osteoarthritis which was revealed by the Bone Scan. THAT, I can live with!

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 1,032
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    53Nancy, one thing I don't understand is why you put DCIS/IDC into your diagnosis line. DCIS is completely secondary, and frankly, irrelevant, to invasive cancer, i.e. IDC. I had IDC, with DCIS found after surgery. The most serious diagnosis is what we report first. No reason to even put DCIS into your diagnosis.

  • 53nancy
    53nancy Member Posts: 295
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    Thanks, pupmom. I will try to change that. I have found it confusing to get the information, and that was the way the surgeon presented it to me He said the tumor itself was very tiny (about the size of a pea).

  • pupmom
    pupmom Member Posts: 1,032
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    I completely understand. Best wishes!

  • Racy
    Racy Member Posts: 974
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    53nancy, you might be a candidate for some of the newer radiation protocols such as a short course or partial breast. I suggest you meet with a radiation oncologist to discuss the options.