AC treatment
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Each day—santabarbarian is the guru on fasting. (She is on the August 2018 chemo board.) For me on DD AC, prior to chemo (about 5 days out) a super clean diet— Fruit, veg, seeds, nuts, water, water, and more water. Whole wheat toast with avo seemed to hold me in the morning. I don't do dairy or meat. But some do. First day, 1100 cal. then the remaining days up to chemo 800 cal. I hydrate myself like I never have before. Then after chemo, same low cal through the rough days (another 3 days depending on SE) then you should feel great on the other side. Or 3 days of just water prior to chemo. If you don't want to fast a week. Amazon has a documentary that's free with Prime. The beginning is rough but the end gets into the science of fasting.
Our normal cells stop dividing when they are stressed (fasting) and go into protection mode. Suspended animation, if you will. Our mutated CA cells don't have the ability to protect themselves and keep on dividing. What's chemo target? Dividing cells. So when our healthy cells are fasting (and protected) the chemo flys right on by to the mutated cells that are dividing. Our healthy cells are spared. Why do people not eat when their sick? It's an evolutionary protection for the body. Food is not necessarily our friend under times of stress. Additionally, some CA cells just die off with fasting. So even without treatment, fasting itself kills off mutated cells.
My oncologist and NP just shake their heads at me— they think it's junk science. I don't care. I'm the one dry heaving at the kitchen sink. Crying on the bathroom floor feeling like I'm being crushed. If they went through what I did. They might rethink their opinion on it.
However, I'm a pain in the ass. I have a BS in molecular biology and I am a RN by trade. I understand cell biology and doctors. Many onc will just tell you eat what you want during chemo. Keep the calories coming in. Meh. That methodology has not worked for me.
Jess
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Jess, this is so helpful, thank you! I am to the point I want to see what other options are available, that's how bad the SEs are. I also had really bad morning sickness with all three of my children, which I've heard those people have a harder time with Chemo side effects.
I will talk to my dr within the next couple weeks and see what we can come up with. Regardless of if I continue the AC regimen, I will def try the fasting with whatever comes next. My current treatment plan was mostly based off my age (31), so they wanted to be aggressive from the start; but IDK if we need to be quite so aggressive LOL.
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I really hate the Neulasta -- it is a lot more bone pain than I expected, even with both claritin and tylenol. I asked if I could forego it on the next and last AC, because I have seen on these forums that some people do, but my docs do not like that additional risk...
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Yellowb—my friend had to ditch Neulasta for Zarxio after #1 AC. She had awful body pain. So did I but I didn’t bother to ask about it
Each day—your onc will probably hate the idea of fasting and tell you not to do it. And yes, youth doesn’t do us any favors. They nuke the shit out of us with chemo. Scorch the earth.
My liver enzymes are up and have been for 2 weeks. I was hoping it was transient. I was sore last night but since Tylenol goes through the liver I didn’t partake. I’m thinking I would rather have elevated liver enzymes due to Tito’s than chemo 🍸. It would be funner I’m sure of it.
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I had AC every two weeks after 12 Taxols. I felt like AC was a much harder chemo.
Nausea: I had a lot of nausea the day of the infusion, but I never vomited. Just awful feeling but not enough to throw up. It didn't matter if my stomach was empty or full. What helped was staying perfectly still, preferably in bed. I would have an early night the day of treatment and usually by next morning I wasn't nauseous anymore. I couldn't take Zofran (had bad headache with it), so my oncologist prescribed Kytril. I suggest anyone who is having a lot of nausea give it a try. I feel like it really helped.
Another thing that was really bad for me was mental crush around day 6 of the cycle, I think it had to do with steroid withdrawal. Once I caught that pattern, I went easy on steroids, only took them the day after infusion (and not 3 days as initially told), and the crush just didn't happen that cycle.
I had neulasta during cycles 1,2 and 3, I didn't have any side effects from it (except high blood counts, as expected).
Other than that I was just extremely tired. I lost most of my hair with Taxol, but had some fuzz growing in at the same time. I went completely bold on AC, lost my eyebrows and lashes (I still had brows and lashes at the end of Taxol). I really really hated AC. I remember telling myself that no matter what, I will never ever have to do it again, because we receive the lifetime dose of Adriamyacin, and it can't be repeated again.
Good luck ladies, hang in there, it will be over soon.
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yellow, after my first AC the bone pain from the Neulesta was so extreme I didn't think I could go through with any further treatment. Per my onc's advice I took Claritin everyday until my next treatment and what a different experience! Only minor pain.
Jess, thank you for providing your nutritional plan. I've always ate healthy. Unprocessed food, organic, little or no meat. However...since my diagnosis I've never eaten so poorly. I'll get back to proper nutrition although it's difficult on days I'm not feeling well.
We'll get through this!
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I told my MO that the growth factors (Neulasta and such) are worse for me than the AC! And she said it's because I'm young and there's a lot in my bone marrow. I received filgrastim, since I was on 2 weeks cycle.
Concerning diet - everybody has to find their own way. I tried to eat less on the day before i. v. and only very lightly on the day of the infusion. But this made me very weak and nauseated, I was almost underweight at that time. So I realized I had to eat to survive and the second cycle was better. when I ate normally prior to infusion and almost normally on the day of the IV. My stomach could handle the nausea much better when fed. Fasting was titally out of the question for me, I think I wouldn't be able to start eating again after the fast with chemo in me. We are all different.
What really brought me through AC were berries. They were in season in our garden, bowls of them every day. Berries and green peas, right from the bushes. I spent hours gathering and eating slowly whilst watching the kids playing in the garden. I actually have nice memories thanks to this little detail - summer spent in the garden.
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I had 4 rounds of AC and 4 rounds of Taxol, so an infusion every two weeks.
With AC, my main symptom was fatigue. I was very rarely nauseous. The doctors gave me anti-nausea meds in my infusion and also some steroids for the few days after which made me feel pretty good. If I felt even the slightest bit of nausea, I took Zofran, but I think that was only twice or three times during the whole time I was on AC. I was also given Neulasta to help keep my white blood cell counts up. I was pretty tired during the AC treatments, and napped whenever I could, but I was able to be up and about too. The first week is tough, and then you start to feel normal. Then it's time for the next infusion.
My hair started shedding about two weeks in, and fell dramatically three weeks after my first chemo. When it first started to shed, I had my husband give me a buzz cut. That's when I started wearing the chemo beanies (I had a cute wig, but didn't wear it that often).
After my second AC infusion, I developed a fever. It was cold and flu season. My kids were sick, and I caught something from them. But bloodwork revealed my white blood cell count was also very low at the same time, so as a precaution, the doctors checked me in to the hospital. I had to have lots of tests, and was hospitalized for four days. It probably would have been more, but I was feeling better and all the tests were clear, and the doctor was sympathetic to the fact that I had a newborn plus two other kids at home, so I was out after four days. Thankfully, that was the only time my white blood cell count dropped like that and the only time I got sick and needed to be hospitalized. Due to the hospitalization, I had to delay my infusion. Then a couple weeks later, I developed a mild case of shingles, and so we delayed it again, to make sure I was strong enough for infusion #3.
Though I lost my hair in the first 2-3 weeks of chemo, I lost my eyebrows and eyelashes about 2 months in (at the beginning of Taxol phase but I’ve read the timing is more to do with hair cycles, not with the Taxol). That was a bit of a shock because suddenly I felt like I looked sick in a way I did not feel with just the hair loss. I started chemo November 2017 and completed it March 2018. I've got my brows and lashes. My hair is about pixie length.
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I am very interested in all the reports of special eating or fasting with respect to AC. I had my usual breakfast on the morning of dose dense AC and my center offers lunch and snacks during chemo. So I ate lunch as well. Still lost weight (which I was happy about) but never had a moment's nausea. (I didn't have it during pregnancy either so maybe that theory is right). I took Claritin for the Neulasta shot and never had pain. But the shot took two weeks to raise my blood count each time so that was scary. Polly
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I had very bad nausea during pregnancy but very little with AC
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JaBoo and Star2017, and anyone else reading this with little ones, you're amazing! This is a lot to go through as it is and having young children to look after must be difficult when you're experiencing SEs.
Has anyone had any SEs like on days 16-20? I've had AC twice. I had horrible diarrhea on days 16-18 after my first AC. This round, yesterday, on day 15, my stomach is a bit unsettled. (I'm on day 16)
I hope all of you ladies are having a good day today!!
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I did have unsettled stomach sometimes but not always. I can’t remember when t was, but I think it was after I took antivirals for the shingles, so there was a lot going on.
AML, I’m lucky to have a lot of help with the kids. I also think the pregnancy and older children kept me focused forward. It was hard to wallow for too long bc I was just so busy and every day was different.
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AML, thank you, yes, that was actually the most difficult thing for me during AC - taking care of my preschoolers and especially trying to look normal for them. We have no other help with the kids, just me and DH. Luckily, my MIL came for a few days after one of the tx, which was nice (she lives far away).
I have no experience with days 16-20, since I was on dose dense cycle, so day 14 was the next infusion. I had diarrhea once during AC, but I'm sure it was the plums eaten in large amount and not washed, dumb me.
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I hope everyone is having a side-effect free weekend! Aside from heartburn I'm okay.
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I had my first DD AC on the 14th. I had a flare reaction during the infusion and they loaded me up with so many steroids and benadryl so they could finish the infusion I could barely say my own name at the end of it.I'm going to have to speak with my MO about the nausea meds and come up with a better plan. The side effects of the nausea meds are worse than the chemo I think but I'm terrified of being that overwhelmingly nauseous without them. The weirdest part for me is how quickly my scalp feels all prickly and itchy. Its been this way since the morning after my infusion and it's maddening! I can totally see why people shave their head for comfort. I only took a half a compazine today after waking up with a lot of nausea but the completely out of it, space cadet feeling I get with that med (along with the headache it gives me) knocked me out for most of the day. Believe it or not the zofran and emend make me feel even worse. I don't feel nearly as bad as I was worried I would, I just feel bad faster than I thought I would. My husband, bless his heart, just walks around after me carrying cups of water and telling me to drink.
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Hazel-Nut, sorry you had such a difficult time. Hopefully they could put a better plan together for you. Those steriods are horrible! My heart just races from them. The compazine knocks me out too. Your husband sounds wonderful. Mine has been great also. I'm happy for that.
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AC #3 is tomorrow. Trying the fasting this time around, will let you know if it works!
For those who have fasted, did you eat/drink ANYTHING, or just water? Yesterday I was starving and had a few bites of boiled chicken and today I had an apple. But just wondering if you eat anything, does it completely ruin it? I've been fasting (aside from the chicken/apple) since Sunday afternoon, so 48 hours.
I've never fasted before, so this has been a little difficult, but not near as bad as I expected. But, even as I type this, my stomach is GROWLING!!! LOL
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Well, I am done with AC and Neulasta now. I did 4 DD, after 12 DD Taxols. Everyone experiences this differently, and I experienced each dose pretty differently as well. But these would be my overall tips for the AC and Neulasta:
Have both prunes and bananas on hand, because you might experience either constipation or diarrhea, or fluctuate between them, and fruits are a lot easier on the body than OTC medicines. I kind of swung on this -- the first few infusions, constipation was a problem; by the last one, everything I ate passed straight through me, I lost weight, and was stuck on the BRAT diet for a bit.
The Neulasta was much harder on me than the AC -- I would shake all night as though cold, while sweating, the night of the Neulasta injection. Really, really important to drink a lot of water on Neulasta night if you want to be [relatively] well by morning. I used both Claritin at night, starting the night before the Neulasta and continuing for 3 days, as well as Tylenol by day for the bone and joint pain. I also had sore muscles -- painfully sore and swollen. Tylenol helped with that as well.
Generally, a gallon of water a day helped in every way. I found it easier to drink that volume of seltzer rather than flat ... it's just a lot of water to get through.
Nothing really tasted very good, so I would make a big pot of nourishing soup a few days before the chemo so there was at least something very easy to eat in the house that was also good for me.
Walking a few miles every day also seemed to really help remind my body it is in fact a body that can do things. I wasn't able to exercise much more than that on the AC, but the one time I did get to the gym for a feeble work-out, it was wonderful.
It took me awhile to work out what Zofran did for me. I never felt nausea, but I would get a weird sort of unease in my body that Zofran addressed. I guess that is nausea, but it was more nebulous than being sick to my stomach.
ETA: I didn't get the dreaded mouth sores, but I did have bleeding gums for a few days each cycle, except the last one, despite popsicles and icing during the push.
And editing again to add: My hair has just started making a comeback, 5 weeks after the end of chemo. My eyebrows and lashes actually came in quicker, around 3 weeks, although they are still very, very short.
That's all I can think of!
Best luck to everyone embarking on this. It's not pleasant, but it's doable.
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AC was the only chemo treatment I did, finishing almost exactly a year ago today. 4 treatments, 3 weeks apart. I'm someone who gets seasick easily, so of course for me the nausea was pretty bad. It lasted a full week after the first 2 treatments, and then about 9-10 days after the last treatment. Definitely take any drugs they give you for nausea, especially if you are already prone to it! I slept a lot the first week after treatments. Constipation was also an issue, and I got mouth sores after the third treatment. I lost almost all of the hair on my head, but was lucky enough to keep about 20% of my eyebrows, so with a wig on I didn't look too sickly.
A couple of weeks after the last AC treatment I felt mostly normal, although bald. I forced myself to keep exercising, and I think that made a big difference.
Now, a year later, I look back and notice that this year post-chemo I had 2 UTIs (never had them before) and one asthma incident (lung inflammation). Not sure if it's coincidence, or if my immune system was weaker this year. I also have a full head of curls for the first time in my life, but my oncologist says 90% of people revert back to straight hair a year or two after chemo (fingers crossed I get to keep the curls.)
Most importantly, my last mammogram was clear, my life is back to normal, and going through AC is just a memory. I would tell anyone who's facing AC that you can do it! It's just a short-term, painful phase you have to go through to get healthy. A year from now I hope you'll be like me, back to living your usual life. Possibly with curly hair.
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traveln- Sorry to hear that you had nausea during chemo. I was interested in your connecting that to sea sickness. I have suffered from both car sickness and sea sickness all my life and I am old now so thats a long time. Still cannot ride in the back seat of a car and avoid all boats as I get sick even on a huge liner on smooth seas. But I had absolutely no nausea while pregnant or during dose dense AC and Taxol. Go figure. Our bodies and reactions are so various. Polly
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Moon girl, are the nulesta shots that bad? Did the Claritin not help at all how often where you taking it? Did you find anything that help. I'm starting chemo tomorrow and heard others say that Claritin help. Just trying to get things in order.
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Love83, everyone is different, but I found the Claritin very helpful. It works because it’s an antihistamine and apparently neulasta creates histamines while stimulating wbc’s. I took generic Claritin morning and night for a week starting on the day I got the shot.
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love83, I didn’t have issues with the neulasta, at least not the obvious achiness. It’s possible that some of the fatigue was related to the neulasta. I did get weird back spasms about a week after my first and second infusions. Perhaps they were related, but I’m not sure.
I was very achy for a few days with taxol tho.
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Hi Poisedandpink..My port was my best friend. I little prick and done.
It never gave me any problems. Ask about it. If you have trouble with
your veins..a port would help.
Hope all goes well. I ended my chemo in August and my radiation in November.
God bless you
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Love—for me Neulasta was awful, but I took my Claritin as I was instructed. Felt like I was being crushed by an industrial machine. Like I was being squeezed to death. I was so sick anyway with my first ACs it just didn’t matter to complain about all my SE. My MO didn’t do anything for me anyway.
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Love - I haven't had the achiness others describe from the neulasta. Of course, my side effects from the AC are so bad, maybe I just didn't notice a little extra pain! I have my last AC on Wednesday and I'm actually not dreading it so much as just wanting it to be over!
For those of you who had taxol AFTER ac, did you wait a few weeks before starting, or did you start pretty quick after finishing AC?
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I have my last e/o week A/C #4 on 12/20 and then 12/28 start the weekly Taxol (paclitaxel) infusions..... My onco didn't want any wait time. Blood work same day before infusion and no Neulasta for the taxol part. I was told it's not supposed to tank your WBCs and neutrophils like A/C does.
Most common SE w the Taxol is that darn peripheral neuropathy, different fatigue and aches than w the Neulasta/Claritin stuff and sometimes the nails go.... I plan on icing hands and feet for it and will prob check out/join the Taxol group.... My 2 cents. MB1
(Edited to add that the A/C regimen was e/o week, with blood work in the "off" week; Taxol regimen is weekly for me w blood work analysis just before infusion)
(Edited at 6pm 12/10 - again to read e/o instead of email/o week - stupid fingers, autocorrect or chemo brain)
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EachDay - I think the first Taxol is mostly given in the same interval as AC was given. So if you had AC every 3 weeks, you should get the 1st Taxol 3 weeks after the last AC. If no other problems arise.
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Thanks MB1 - Was hoping to maybe have a little break until after the holidays....I'll find out for sure at my next treatment on Wednesday what the plan is for Taxol....
I plan to ice hands/feet too! I haven't seen anyone else at the clinic doing so, so I feel a little self conscious about it, but hell...if it helps, who cares how silly it looks!
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I’m about to ice for Taxol so I will type fast. I took 3 weeks off after AC to go to Hawaii. I took that break then started weekly Taxol and am on #10 as we speak. My blood counts have been all over with Taxol since I’m not getting any colony stimulation my ANC have been low but do rally. My liver enzymes also got wacky with Taxol. I haven’t missed any tx due to low counts or pesky elevated liver enzymes. Off to ice my hands!!
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