How has the Pandemic affected you as a cancer patient/survivor
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We need every layer of protection. Look at the UK now, they're highly vaccinated but they're very low on mask-wearing for some reason and the cases are going through the roof. BUT even with high cases, vaccines are so effective that death rate is still very low. These vaccines are insanely good, it's a fact. And another reason UK cases are going up is driven by unvaccinated teenagers who are spreading it around and NOT wearing masks. Crazy.
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CDC guidance for the group that's mostly healthy: Get Vaccinated!
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Serenitystat, I’ve never wanted more people around me, vaccinated or not, lol.
I do think vaccines are good for most people, I just do not support it by force and to me strict limitations on where people are allowed to go and work are too much too soon.
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Strict limitations are "too much, too soon"???
After 18 months?
No one is forcing vaccines. The mandates give you a choice. Like all other vaccine mandates.
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Vaccine mandate works:
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/07/1043332198/employer...
we have tried a lot of different incentives like lottery, ease of masks, etc, unfortunately, these incentives didn't help move the needle. as a country, we are behind a lot of developed country in terms vaccine uptake despite having an early start.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-va...
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why should the unvaxed get the shot? one major reason is because they're swamping the hospitals. They're healthy until they're not
And if they do get sick they run the risk of dying.
"The risk of dying from COVID-19 was more than 11 times greater in August for unvaccinated adults than fully vaccinated adults, while the risk of testing positive for the coronavirus was six times higher among the unvaccinated, the CDC data says."
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2...
& because the safest thing for all of us is to get the case counts down & the way to get case counts down is either to lockdown or to get almost everyone vaccinated
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I'm so irritated at one of our local TV news stations (KMOV-4 in St. Louis, not letting them hide). They just did a loooong segment on some quack who was whining about losing her hospital privileges because she's not vaccinated, and boo hoo, she can't prescribe ivermectin now. Why the hell was she given significant airtime?
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Just to be specific, the strict limitations I’m referring to are mainly to events and such that require proof of vaccination only, not even a negative test. And, if you must be vaccinated to keep your job (excluding the medical/patient care industry, which I understand), that is force, to me at least. And too soon is 10 months of vaccination effects in the general population. Trials are great but they take time and have many exclusions. Personally, I just feel like the mandates in some places are rushed. But that’s just my opinion and opinions have no place in these discussions, perhaps something will change my mind in the future, I am open to whatever comes along for further consideration but for now, I’ll handle the risk myself.
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Illimae, I am only intolerant of people who willfully don't want to do anything. I understand the two are separate ideas -- anti vax/anti mask, however those two ideas more often than not cross paths and join up, and those are the uber apathetic. I have a few friends who do not want to vax and while I am disappointed because it doesn't help with herd immunity, I respect their decision because they still follow the other guidelines and in some cases are more careful knowing they aren't vaxxed. However, I also have friends and family who literally don't care. I feel like those people would still shed tears if someone close to them got sick, but would find a reason for why they deserved it and at the same time feel good about how mich better their immune system is than the sick person's. I now have levels of trustworthiness attached to those people. It's really messed with my head since I consider myself a pretty open, honest, and loyal friend.
I think it feels like a witch hunt because we are tired of the pandemic and all the consequences of the indifference. I am wagering that many vaxxers also did it out of selfishness and for freedom. Both sides have their idea of how they can get their ability to move freely back. The thing is, one side has proof in the form of data, while the other just has ideology. So if the majority is vaxxed and like 20 percent on both sides are angry it's going to feel like a witch hunt because the majority is going to have more people in numbers even if it's the same percent of super selfish people.
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illimae - What's the feminist equivalent of "No man is an island"? I hate crowds more than most, but as a cancer patient I have to go where other sick people are. I want more of everyone I encounter to be vaccinated knowing some people are immunocompromised or can't be vaccinated. There's a good percentage vaccinated here, but the virus continues to spread and it's mostly the unvaccinated who are hospitalized. Some of them are at my hospital. At one point the young clerk who wasn't fully vaccinated and wearing a mask part-time was there for a 10-day stint. If he were vaccinated, he likely would not have needed to be hospitalized and avoided the respirator.
As an employer, the hospital is down one employee for 10 days plus however many days he's at home recovering. A vaccine mandate will reduce lost work-hours. What do people do without leave pay or insurance? Oh, right, GFM. 🙄
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I'm not sure what people mean by "witch hunt". Don't witch hunts end with the "hunters" killing the "witches"?
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Forgot...
illimae - Can you cite your source that the vaccines haven't been tested enough? Billions of people are vaccinated now. Seems epidemiologists and vaccine experts approve of them. COVID-19 has killed somewhere between 4 million and 15 million worldwide.
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Yeah, "witch hunt" is an odd term to use in this situation, since historically, the witch-hunters were superstitious people who operated on lies and innuendo. We've seen more of that from the strident anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers.
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It seems like the obsessive anti-vaxxers get most of the spotlight. I'm not sure how many there are, but they seem to have made their minds up and no matter what kind of data, logic, evidence they are given of vaccine safety and effectiveness, it is not going to sway their ant-vax stance. We've heard stories of people dying of Covid, still claiming it's a hoax. The voices of those with legitimate hesitancy over the vaccine who are open minded about incoming data are being drowned out by the obsessive antivaxxers.
It's estimated that 170,000 children in the U.S. have lost a parent to Covid. Again, I cannot say how many of the deaths were antivaxxers but what a tragedy for their children. In the 1990's, my parents both passed within months of each other when I was about 40 and it remains one of the most devastating parts of my life. I received an mbc death sentence when my son was a high school senior. I was grief stricken to think what this was putting him through and that I might not be around for his young adult years. For young children to lose one or both parents unnecessarily to Covid is god awful. The parents put their misguided, militant beliefs before their kids, something I would never, could never do. Some of these parentless children will grow up never comprehending how or why their parent made that choice over being there for their kids.
Then you have the antivaxxers who die and their family starts a gofundme page. It almost seems like a common occurrence tho I can't say how many. Look, you could have gotten a free vaccine. Now your loved ones are trolling for large sums of cash to cover expenses. As someone who's responsibly handled over ten years of extensive cancer medical expenses, yeah, it offends me that so many people give no thought to the cost of getting sick and possibly dying from Covid. There doesn't seem to be any critical thinking along the lines of, “Just what might happen if I get Covid? What if I were hospitalized? How would I pay for that? How would my household bills be covered if I could not work for a period of time? What if I died from Covid? What would that do to my children? Do I want to risk my children growing up without me? Could the vaccine be a legitimate solution to these worries and concerns?" It would seem that the fanatical antivaxxers never pose these questions to themselves.
The antivaxxers spread conspiracy theories, spread a deadly disease and some die leaving young children dealing with a monumental loss. That’s a lot of damage.
Link:
The Staggering Number of Kids Who Have Lost a Parent to COVID-19
Even if children are less vulnerable to the coronavirus, they don't suffer any less from the loss it causes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620411/
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No, I cannot provide a source for saying that not enough time has been taken in the trials because we all know it was speed up and if I remember correctly, it was actually called operation warp speed, or something like that. It was also stated as my opinion, not as fact. Trials do typically take 3 to 5 years, depending on that is being tested and other relevant circumstances. Clearly I’ve stated on many occasions that I am not anti-vax and absolutely not anti-mask. I’m merely saying that there are unvaccinated people who are navigating the pandemic responsibly and when doing so, do not pose the risk many people believe. They are lumped in with the media hype, their different choices are clearly not respected, they are accused of being what’s wrong with society, they are facing situations of being shunned for their non-compliance and I am beginning to see some expressions of delight in their misfortune.
Anyway, I’ve explained enough and this is exhausting. Have a good day.
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It is exhausting. I've hit my limit of compassion for vax dodgers who refuse. There are people who are so immunocompromised or unable to be vaccinated that the only way they can consider being safe in public is when the transmission rate is very low. That happens when the pandemic measures, including getting vaccinated when eligible, are followed.
As far as the speed of vaccine development, I'm just copying what I wrote earlier this year.
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serenity,
Thanks for re-posting your earlier comment. Of particular importance is the fact that MRNA methodology is not new! For those who want unlimited personal freedoms or choices, go find a deserted island and do whatever the heck you want, but if you choose to live among other people there will be limits to your freedoms and choices.
This is a misquote but I have only had one cup of coffee this morning:
I don’t know how to explain to you about why you should care about other people.
There is some debate over whether Dr. Fauci said this originally but regardless, if you don’t understand why you have to put the greater good ahead of your own “freedoms” at times, then I don’t know what else to say. It’s stunning to me that far too many have little to no concept of caring for others .
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exbrnxgrl - Some people are put off by the idea of doing something for the greater good. They don't want to be"guilted" into doing anything. Doesn't matter if it's for their own good.
Vaccine mandate working here and shows that a very small percentage are anti-mandates. It's their choice to quit or be terminated. I wonder how many would have quit without the mandate?
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Vaccine mandates work.
My 97 year old mother lives in a LTC residence. Her residence was part of the vaccine pilot in Ontario so their staff were able to get vaccinated starting in January, during the very first week that vaccines were available here. Due to supply issues and no doubt due to vaccine hesitancy, it took a while for everyone on staff to be vaccinated. But since around April or May, there have been just 11 hold-outs / refusals among their permanent staff. That number has held steady at 11 for all these months, despite education efforts and encouragement. Our family council has been urging for some time that vaccines be made mandatory. Finally that's been done. Anyone on staff not vaccinated by mid-October would be put on unpaid leave for a month and if still not vaccinated by mid-November, their employment would be terminated. As of that first mid-October deadline, the number of unvaccinated permanent staff dropped down to 1.
And vaccines work.
While my mother's LTC residence has done a great job of keeping residents safe - there hasn't been a single case of Covid among residents - from March 2020 through to about June 2021 there was a constant string of unit or full facility quarantines due to staff members testing positive. At one point my Mum's unit was on lockdown (residents required to stay in their rooms) for 6 weeks straight, as one staff member and then another and then another tested positive. But as their staff vaccination rates have climbed, and as local vaccination rates have increased (74% of all Toronto residents / 83% of eligible residents aged 12+ are currently fully vaccinated), the number of cases among staff has noticeably declined, with no cases at all over the past couple of months.
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illimae,
mRNA vaccines were first developed decades ago.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history...
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Forgive me if this sounds condescending because I have to outline a basic concept. It's not intended to be. So, with vaccinations, herd immunity, which infers protection for the vulnerable and in some cases slows the mutations of viruses, can only be achieved if we reach the needed threshold. The world allowed the virus to mutate to a version which now requires a higher threshold of vaccine takers. Many people understand that concept, especially because we have been required to vaccinate for other diseases throughout childhood to maintain those thresholds. We know that if it's not met, the disease will continue to spread and mutate faster. It's exhausting to think we will have to live with Covid 19 in this way for many more months to years because that threshold isn't being met. Even if a vaccinated person isn't directly affected, it's still concerning there is a chance they can be someday and/or for the virus to severely affect people they know. That is where a lot of the animosity towards the vaccine hesitant comes from. I've heard it from my husband and aquaintances. They are just tired of masking up. They want to be anti mask but can't be. They are tired of presenting their vaccine cards, but they continue to do so because it will lead to lower numbers and loosening of restrictions and the saving of lives. They are tired of being obedient. It totally sucks to live with restrictions, but they are willing to make that sacrifice. They feel people not trying to reach that threshold are wanting to drag this pandemic on and on. All they want is for controlled numbers. Nobody is saying the virus will go away, but the experts are saying we can have controlled numbers if enough people participate in getting us there.
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My husband works in the state courts system. Every week, he comes home and tells me of a co-worker (or two, or three) who tested positive and is/are now quarantined at home. They have signs throughout the building limiting, for instance, the number of people in an elevator. The worst offenders are the deputy sheriffs who will pile in those cars in large groups. But, oh, how they love telling other people what to do. This has been going on for so many months now. At least I don't have as big a knot in my stomach about Hubby catching a deadly case because he is vaccinated, and will soon be eligible for his booster. Last year, before the vaccines were available, I was terrified every day that I'd lose him because some bastard didn't want to wear a mask or follow distancing rules.
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I do understand that the vaccine technology has been around for a long time, I just have concerns about the short and long term effects of the ingredients. This concern applies to all vaccines, chemo and targeted therapies. As someone who seems to have uncommon reactions, I am making the right choice for myself. I want people to know all the possible risks of being vaccinated and not being vaccinated, because that is a risk too. Then they decide, not because they’re being paid $100, or a celebrity tells them to or they’ll get fired from a non-medical job.
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Typically, there is a direct relationship between anti-vaxx and anti-mask. It's rare that anti-vaxxers are pro-mask. So, as a population, our single line of defense can't be reliance on people's good will and common sense to prevail, it often miserably fails.
Mandates are not a new concept, it's just that societies have become so hyper-selfish, fragmented and badly-educated that people can't see beyond themselves.
PS. this isn't directed at anyone, it's a general vent
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I truly have no idea how people can be put off by the idea of the greater good. How can you not care about others? How can you not understand that sometimes your action or inaction might effect others adversely? I find this mind boggling. There is no part of me that can begin to understand that level of selfishness.
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exbrnxgrl - A member here ranted about it.
Beesie - What a relief!
I hate taking medicine. I hate needles. I hate hospitals. Cancer is killing me in multiple ways.
I didn't get vaccinated because of any incentive besides I don't want to suffer from COVID and don't want my family to feel guilty if they bring it home. I did have a severe enough reaction to the first shot that I didn't want the second. Then I read about the Delta variant. It's more transmissible and causes more severe disease. With the virus continuing to spread, but the province pushing to lift lockdown, I figured my family would eventually be exposed. I wanted the most protection in case they brought it home. They still could, but with 2 doses I'm less likely to need hospitalization. I don't know if I need a booster. I'd prefer not to, but I will if I learn that I need it.
Most people have a mild or no reaction to the vaccines. I don't feel the need to transfer my unlucky and rare sensitivity concerns to others. I'm allergic to tree pollen, but I don't warn people about the risks of going outside.
This virus will be around for a long time. Eventually everyone will be exposed. It's less risky to be vaccinated when that happens.
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Nope, I’m not anti-vax but I won’t bother explaining any further. I realize no point of mine would be considered as soon as I expressed that perhaps everyone does not need a vaccine, depending on their circumstances and behavior.
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Sorry but saying you don't want to receive a life saving vaccine for the good of the people based on "your circumstances and behavior" is akin to using this logic to explain you do not need a driver's license because you are a safe driver and that the state is wrong for insisting that you get one. If the antivaxxers and antimaskers would just stay home as they propose high risk people do, then we would have less of a risk factor for spread to those who are vulnerable. I am all in favor of them being denied access to certain venues, having any job in which they have to interface with the general public (why just those in healthcare, etc Isn't that also discriminatory?) and having it mandated for employment in most instances. If you opt out, then there are consequences and you must be willing to accept them; it's called freedom of choice. I can understand why some cannot get the vaccine due to side effects, etc but cannot understand why their significant others would not want to get one to protect their loved ones.
I am sick of hospitals being overrun by antivaxxers who are ill and taking up space. There are other vaccinated people who have acute medical conditions or are having to postpone procedures, surgery, etc because there are no beds or there are staffing issues. Denying their right to necessary healthcare access is criminal in my book. So while I appreciate your right to espouse your thoughts, I find you logic to be flawed and lacking a factual basis. Vaccines save lives, lack thereof, causes death as evidenced by over 700,000 deaths. When is enough enough? Rant over.
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Yes, the original meaning of witch hunt is as some of you have described but I don’t think the person, can’t remember who, who originally used the term on this thread meant it that way. The phrase is now often used in a less than literal manner.
“In current language, "witch-hunt" metaphorically means an investigation that is usually conducted with much publicity, supposedly to uncover subversive activity, disloyalty, and so on, but with the real purpose of intimidating political opponents.[2] It can also involve elements of moral panic[3] or mass hysteria.[4]“
-Wikipedia
As far as I know, there is no actual hunting of witches involved!
Betrayal,
You are so right! For me it is simply a matter of caring about my fellow human beings and understanding that there will be times when my wants and freedoms need to be put aside for the greater good. It’s really not very difficult!
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I am okay if someone can't get the vaccine due to allergic reaction.
however, the U.S tried "depending on their circumstances and behaviors" in May when CDC dropped the mask mandate, and the CDC director famously said "Your health is in your hands.". CDC relied on honor systems and "behavior" with <40% of total population fully vaccinated, and it backfired.
Furthermore, unlike some Asian countries where mask is normalized, there is so much antimask sentiment here, regardless of political affiliation. In the past few days, the celebrity scientists have been talking about "unmasking kids"/"off ramp" by end of the year, while FDA hasn't even EUAed kids vaccine yet. For whatever reason, people seem to view mask as some kind of punishment. If we hadn't dropped the mask mandate back in May, maybe we would have been in a much better place now.
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