Taxotere, Carboplatin and Herceptin
Comments
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Shelby: So happy to hear from you and your doing ok. That is such a bummer. I know how excited you were to go and now hide sight probably wished you hadn't. But all things are for a reason...this one you might have to dig to see it, but its there. Apparently you didn't break it right? I'm with Anne in listening to the dr. in waiting until your better. I know I want to mush on too, but have to wait. Seems like after chemo I am rushed to get things back to the way they were. You will get there just be patient. Now thats a word isn't it?
Anne: Yep thought so. Beings I thought I was going to have to go for rads I didn't have it put in. I will certainly keep that in mind on being slow. So lets see you had 4 visits then to have the fills? What size are you going for? There is quite a bit of skin left after mine. He left some as thinking I would have rads that it would stretch the skin and make it tight so maybe they can work with that. I do well at home. I mean I am happy just rambling around here and don't get as tired as if I go out shopping or something. In between my washings or things to do here I rest and that helps. Thanks on the hair...it feels good to have something there. About another month might be a pixie. Hubby is biting at the bit to go on another cruise so have to see how surgery goes and try and plan one. I know it would kill me to try and excert that today. How long after mastectomy until you got your strengh back? This week is wek 4 on Saturday.
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Shelby, Glad to hear from you!. Sorry about the surgery being put off. Gosh, you COULD have taken something for the leg pain - damn.
Bold, the boob pain will fade.
Cupcake - I started chemo about 4 weeks after my mastectomy and I think I was just starting to feel normal when they put the port in at 3 weeks - then chemo knocked me on my butt. So you probably need to add a couple of weeks since you had the chemo first. I bet it is more left over chemo that is making you tired instead of the surgery - or a big combo of both.
Well, I am disappointed. I had a big adventure planned for this weekend and weather is forcing me to postpone my plans. A girlfriend and I were going to take our horses to a state park and tent camp for the weekend. We have taken our horses many times and stayed in a cabin, once we stayed in a RV, but this was to be our big for real "camping" adventure. Cooking outdoors, the whole big deal. Pack a lunch, ride all day, find a lake to stop and eat by...... I even bought a new tent. I have not stayed in a tent since I was 9 years old. We were so excited.
Our part of Florida is going to dip down to 40 degrees, with 25 mph winds and rain. It was the rain that put the skids on the trip. The wind did factor in too. Hubby was going to take Friday afternoon off and drive down to the park (about an hour away) and put up the tent for us. He said putting it up in those winds would be rough, he will still do it if we want. But chemo has made me so sensitive to cold, I think I would be too miserable to ride. So I guess my trip is off for a while. It will be about 6 weeks before my friends woork schedule cycles back around to match mine - she is a county deputy. Oh well, I will be done with chemo then, so maybe that is better. It does not start getting miserably hot here until June, so we have plenty of time. The wind and rain are supposed to clear out Saturday afternoon, so maybe Sunday after church we can take a little short ride so I can get my horsey fix in before tx#5 on Monday.
Lisa
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Cupcake - I had about 8 visits so far to have the fills. I did several fills before chemo started. I was a size D, but now I want to be a large B or a small C. The surgeon filled me up a bit at surgery and then the first post-surgery fill was too large and caused pain. That is when I started with the smaller fills. Once the chemo is done, I will begin to go every week so he can finish up. Then surgery will follow soon after. I hear what you are saying about your hubby wanting to schedule a vacation.....my hubby and kids want to go down to Disney so bad, but I keep telling them that we need to put off any vacation planning until after I'm done with chemo. I used to love to go into NYC once every two months and see a Broadway show with my hubby or my older son, but I'm steering clear of crowds these days so I haven't been to NYC since before my mastectomy. It was VERY hard to not drive in to see the city at Christmas this year.
After my mastectomy I was feeling better by 6 weeks. I had some difficulty with the side where they took all of the nodes. Lots of pain and discomfort. It's still not doing great, so my doctor recommended a physical therapist to help with the cording and range of motion issues. I will start that at the end of next month. I found a physical therapist who specializes in post-mastectomy care.
Oh Lisa I am sorry to hear that your trip had to be postponed. It's always nice to do something special the week before a treatment when you are feeling at your best. I guess you will have to wait the six weeks and make it something that you can look forward to, right?
Anne
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Good to hear from you Shelby. I am sorry you have to wait but you have come this far so you don't want any complications. Hopefully you will feel better real soon.
Cupcake I hope you don't have to have rads, not because it is hard or anything it is just the going and doing it and it seems to take a little time out of the day but then I would rather that than chemo I guess. I am just so happy all is clear for you. We are survivors! We are fighters too all of us even though we feel like weak kittens at times we can come back like roaring lions.
Anne, I hope you have a good tx #5. I don't think mine was very bad but #4 was the one that I thought I would die. I was so glad to get to finished. You are almost there! I had trouble with counts all the way through so hopefully yours will not get too bad. Do you take the Neulasta? I hated that shot! I did not like blood transfusion but it was so much easier than the Neulasta for me but then I think because of my fibro it was harder for me.
kjbell, I twitched in so many places I felt like Evis. I have that problem anyway with the fibro but it did get worse with chemo. I know is it annoying. I seem to have a lot less now so maybe it will stop all together for me. I think when I get stressed it happens more. I do take meds for anxiety though. I hope it stops for you once you are finished with tx. My eyes teared for about a week after tx but I have such dry eyes anyway. I know some had a hard time with that. As for the hair mine did not all fall out on my head but I just got a buzz so it would be more comfortable. What was long got sore. I am not a real hairy person anyway but my eyebrows and eyelashes got pretty thin and no hair on arms or legs. I thought my eyebrows will come back with a vengeance since that is what was thickest on me. I am still thin on head and eyes and still hairless everyplace else. You may not lose as much as some.
traci, I just got dots for tattoos but they are there to stay. They almost look like a small melanoma starting. They did one more the next day and she put it right over a blood vein and it squirted blood but it did not bleed long. It surprised her though. It is really sore and bruised still and yesterday they covered it with a little piece of lead to do a tx and it hurt so I guess it is sore a ways down. I do have the Princess and the pea syndrome though which is also know as fibro. I find the hardest part of rads is keeping my arms up and my hands go to sleep. I guess arthritis in my shoulders is the cause but I made it so far. The girl that was hateful to me the first time is doing her best to be nice. I guess she was just having a bad day. She was in my face setting the rad up yesterday and I almost sneezed. My eyes started watering and she was looking at me funny and finally it went away so I told her I was about to sneeze. She backed off and said go ahead. I told her it was gone. I think her perfume was the cause of it. I still have problems with smells. Seems like everything is just so strong and when a customer comes in that smokes or has a lot of perfume it just kills me. I have always had a strong sense of smell but chemo made it worse. I said I think I could be a drug dog because when someone has been smoking Marijuana I can really smell it even if they are in the drive through it is on their papers they send it. So far I have not had to smell that since I have been back to work but I am working Friday night so I bet we get some.
Blue I like your dream! Some of the ladies at church were going to wear hats to support me and another woman but it did not last long. I am so tired of wearing scarfs and hats but it is too cold not to. I think if it was summer I might just go without even at work. Well maybe I would I guess I would try it!
Bold, I hope we can all help you. I know so much is trial and you will feel all alone at times but you are not. We are here for you. In my prayers and others as well. I am glad you are having a good day and I wish you fewer SE this round. Hang in there it, ask if you need us.
Carolyn
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Bold: I am day 7 from tx2. Day 3 was really bad for me with queasiness, extreme weakness and lightheaded feeling. However, the last 3 days have been much better than tx1. I'm hoping to keep doing as well. Let's hope your tx2 goes well!
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Lisa: That sounds like such fun. I would like to go too. Your right the surgeon did say it was the left over chemo that was dragging me down. I am so much better everyday so I think by week 6 I will be well. Still have to wait though as the plastic surgeon said yesterday there is a 5 month waiting period to get in anyway and he likes to wait 4 months from mastectomy to put in expander. I was hoping to get it in and while it was filling have the colostomy. Ca-bosh that idea. I'm seeing myself wanting to get back to normal to soon and I have to be patient with myself. I really am doing well considering what my poor body has went through the last 8 months.
Anne: That's right you slowed down didn't you. I was a big C and would like smaller also. I have some Lymphedema in the arm and hand and think to look for a Therapist to help move the fluid. I think they are waiting so see how much goes down after surgery. It is a little sore on the lymph dissection if I lay on it at night, but otherwise no problem. I feel uncomfortable with the numb feeling, but that is just because it is not normal. In time I will adjust to it. Good you stayed away from crowds..
Carolyn: Thanks. Its just hard to fathom and I have to keep telling myself I am a survivor. I am hoping too n radiation. When you think about it they measure the rads by the tumor don't they? Well if no tumor how can they do that. Also if no micro's left then that could be an overkill and why do it. I can move on to the surgeries, but don't want to skip past something that will keep this monster away in the future too. I will know more tomorrow when I see the onc.
Rayhope: You and Bold sound like the new torch carriers for this club. I do wish you both the best and remember to keep the little happy and sad faces marked on your calendars so you can look back and see the pattern of your chemo days. It really does help. As us that have went through the tunnel and came out the other side feel for you where you are and can tell you that you WILL get through it and it is so good when you finish it. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
For me today I am making a chart for the date I was dx, the type of cancer, the chemo cocktail contents and does, surgeries, Pathology reports along with CT scans and MRI reports. Although I think today I will NEVER forget it, I know I will in time. This will be helpful if I change Dr.'s later on and will give them the needed information they will need. Just something to stick back in the medical file I have. Well you all have a wonderful Wednesday and chat with you soon....
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LIsa: Damn! About your trip. I could of vicariously gone with you. Well you will go when the time is right.
Cupcake:Even though you get "clear Margins" Cancer is shaped more like a crab (hence the name cancer and crab for the zodiac) So subsequently it can have tiny little cells that are left at the tumor site. Radiation will obliterate those buggers. It is hugely important. I would imagine that you are in Tahiti and under a waterfall of healing water during your treatment and let your mind and machine keep you healthy for years to come.
Shelby:Welcome back you got a leg up on us. (just kidding, get it?) Glad you relatively ok. Hope you even better real soon.
Rayhope: Thank for keeping me informed. Hows your digestion? Strange question to ask someone huh? I had problems with first tx so thats why I ask. I hope your doing great.
Has anyone gotten feeling back under there arm? Mine is still as numb as tooth during a root canal. I se am feeling great, getting a lot done before Monday.
Stay strong delicious divas!
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Bold: I had a terrible problem with constipation first treatment. I really think it was close to an impaction which would have required medical attention. To prevent that this time, I started taking stool softeners at night two days before chemo day. On that day, onco gave me prescription for generlac solution to take once or twice a day; he also told me to take senokot at night. All of that prevented the constipation this time around. Yesterday (day 6) I switched to diarrhea (of course). I actually find that easier to deal with; immodium seems to handle it okay I also had quite a bit of nausea/queasiness days 2 and 3 but never actually got sick. Hope you're doing well also!
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Bold: That was interesting how cancer got its name..thanks for sharing I didn't know that. Well the perplex question is there is no tumor. So now what??? Radiate what???
Rayhope: Read back of my nightmare with constipation. I had no idea chemical induced chemo constipation is nothing like regular constipation. If anyone has a weakening in the bowels like diviturlosis then you can perforate a bowl like I did.
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Cupcake: I realize that there is no tumor there anymore but I think that the reason for radiation is for left over stray cells. I had a lumpectomy with clear margins but that does not mean that there is not a little troublemaker that is lurking. What advice have you been given by you onc. and rad onc. I will opt for temp tats when the time comes. I love thinking about the future is makes me feel like it will be here soon. I will be done by the end of American Idol Season. It just started last night. Funny.0
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Bethany,
It is Dr John Hogg and we both graduated from Baylor.
I have an abdominal incision and Im being careful- trying to use the ab muscles a little at a time and trying to safeguard my back- thanks for the cautions!
Kristy
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Bold: I have an appointment late tomorrow afternoon and will know the pro's and con's then. I noticed on the Pathology report that they did a microscopic examination on the specimen. For sure I won't pass up on rads if there is any chance at all there might be rouges floating around. A good thing to think about when you will be done. When I watch it I will think of you.
Gemmie nee crickets as I have been recording down everything from first dx it is amazing how much I have done in the last 8 months! No wonder they say your life is on hold. I was going almost everyday for all that time with something. Unbelievable when you see it all written down.
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Cupcake, I will be watching your results! My original diagnoses was DCIS, but I had a real bad feeling and then when the path came back HER+ I said "bilateral mastectomy - get rid of it" I was told that I could avoid rads that way. I lost my mom to this crap, So I was just not taking any chances. Of course no one gets chemo with DCIS. Well.... during the mastectomy they discovered IDC with 2 nodes affected. Because I had all breast tissue removed, I am under the impression that radiation would never do me any good. The surgeon tossed all that trash in the dumpster. How can they radiate something that is not there?
My camping trip: It may still get revived!!! The forecaste is looking better. The wind forecast has died down some - that was a big factor - erecting a tent in 25 mph winds is not good! So I will check the weather in the morning and then Heather and I will decide then. We had such a nice time planned for Friday night; filet mignion on the grill with bernaise, veggies with butter in foil done on the grill, I was gonna make southern biscuits before I left the house and then heat them on the grill. After a great dinner, just kick back and dream about a long, liesurely ride the next day.... Fingers crossed for better weather!
LISA
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Hello, Cupcake,
Lymphedema is staged, just like breast cancer is, so if it isn't treated it progresses inside. The progression may not be more swelling, but inside the tissue becomes hardened, and the risk of serious infection increases. If your hand and arm are swollen, you should see a well-trained lymphedema therapist NOW, not wait-and-see. Even if it's not lymphedema, a good therapist can take baseline measurements for future reference, teach you a gentle prophylactic massage to reduce the swelling you have now and reduce your risk of more swelling later, and fit you for a sleeve and glove to wear when traveling or exercising. Please do insist on a prompt referral.
Here's a website with information on lymphedema for breast cancer patients:
http://www.StepUp-SpeakOut.org
And here's their page about finding a well-trained lymphedema therapist near you:
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Finding_a_Qualified_Lymphedema_Therapist.htm
I hope that helps, and I wish you no "swell" days!
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Crap., Binney, thanks!
For the past 3 or 4 days, I have thought that my left foob ( the node removal side) inplant was failing. That foob has never gotten soft, still very hard all aroud. In the past several days, I have had discomfort on that side, on the outside of the foob, under the arm and down the inner arm. I can't tell if the numbness is finally going away and I am just know feeling pain or my implant is going into a hardening stage (capsular contraction).
Mastectomy with simultaneous recon was Sept 24, 2008.
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Lisa: I will post tomorrow night when I get back. I thought DCIS was the invasive kind. I think LSIS isn't as bad. I think 5 years ago they took out pre cancerous cells from the same breast and one of my research questions is to find out what category they fell into and why nothing else was done. Did that bring me to today?? I think bold is right in that any microscopic cancer cells that are in there that could stick and start growing again. Oh I do hope you get to go on that trip.
Binney: Thanks a bunch. I had NO idea it was that serious and tomorrow I will make sure it is addressed. They have known for a month now it is swollen and beings they didn't seem alarmed I didn't either. But after your insight I sure will. I'm going in on that sight now. Thanks again and I will post what I find out tomorrow....
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Hi everybody,
That camping trip sounds like heaven. And, I love cooking breakfast outside in the morning.
Today I went in for my follow up with the radiation onc and he said my skin looked better than he would have expected for 3 weeks out. Then after all business was conducted, he hugged and kissed me on the cheek and said "Have a good life." Done. They're the ones who gave me my John Wayne plaque: "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway." It sounds strange, but I'm going to miss those people.....hope to run into them other places -- but he made it sound like he doesn't expect to see me back and that felt wonderful.
Going on a business trip to Tampa next week -- my stamina is so much better and I feel almost like myself again. I think the muscle pain was mostly from the bad fall I had -- just taking a long time to heal and so now I am going to start the Arimidex. Crossing my fingers for no s/e's.
I think of all of you - each being in different place in treatment and with so much to bear -- but what a great bunch of fun and witty troopers.
Love and peace - Bethany
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Cupcake, DCIS is non-invasive, but apparantly can become invasive if it sticks around long enough. And yes, Bold is right about the cancer cells lingering, hidden in the body to atack us latter, thus the chemo. I do hope you can skip the radiation.
Bethany - Good for you!!!!! To be told to "Have a Good Life" must have felt just wonderful!!! I wish your business trip was on the east coast of FL instead of the west!! We could have met up for a few minutes!
My camping trip is officially post-poned. The forecast is worse this morning. They have extended the high winds and rain thru Saturday night. Winds chills of 38 with rain is more than this Florida girl can take.
Have a great day ladies!
Lisa
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Bold, regarding your question about feeling returning under the arm, I had my mastectomy in September and I still do not have feeling back yet. The doctor told me that sometimes it returns slowly and sometimes it never returns. I will tell you that I have grown used to it and it doesn't really bother me that much anymore. The lymphedema specialist told me to make sure to use an electric razor when shaving under that arm because it would be very easy to cut myself if I used a regular razor since I cannot feel anything.0
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Cupcake - I am so encouraged by your path results. Thanks for sharing & congrats!!!
TCH #4 pretty much kicked my butt, and I've been wallowing in the I can't do this anymore mode with two treatments to go, but reading your posts have kicked the life back into me!! Since I will also be having surgery after chemo, it was really uplifting!
I was able to muster the courage to give myself the shots, it wasn't painful, but doing it just makes me think about the changes that have occurred in my quality of life since this whole ordeal started. It's more traumatic than painful.
Best wishes to all! All of you ladies are such a source of encouragement & hope!!
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Cali4: It's amazing how strong we really are when we think we arn't isn't it. Thank you and my whole intention was to share for encouragement. I wished everyone could have surgery's after like us so they can see that it is gone. I was told the Herceptin reduces the tumor and makes it more likely not to spread when they open you up. My case is weird, but I'm weird anyway so figures.
Lisa: So sorry about the trip. The trip is sort of like this journey of cancer that takes us to where we don't particularly want to go. Out of our control. But there is a trip after the weather just like there is life after this treatment.
Bethany: Congratulations, doesn't it feel good to hear that? Want to pinch yourself hunh?
My Mastectomy is feeling better everyday. The numbness isn't as bad, but still there some as the swelling so will be aggressive today on the follow up on that cause I don't want it to get any worse. I took my Jack Russell out for a walk yesterday, just around the block, but some anyway. He was thrilled and I was glad I made it. A little bit more each day, but not to overdo. My treadmill in the trophy room has cobwebs on it for being unplugged for so long..lol But I am looking at it lovingly again. Well off to get ready to go to the days activities. You all have a wonderful day...thinking of each of you....A great big cyber hug
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Lisa, sorry about your trip.
But, we are 2/3 of the way through chemo - just 6 more weeks to go, just two more sets of bad chemo days! Cali too.
Great job on the shots Cali. I hate giving the shots to myself because the shots are what make me nauseous. But I know it is better than the way I feel when I don't get the shots.
My business trip is going pretty well. My group is making good progress and I've been mostly feeling okay. Eating in restraunts during chemo is a pain. One day I ordered a risotto that turned out to be spicy even though the description didn't say so and I couldn't eat it. My chemo stomach just can't take the heat.
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Cupcake, I had a SNB with my lumpectomy in October. It took about a month and a half for it to stop being numb in the underarm area. After that, the feeling wasn't entirely normal - I don't have as much feeling but it isn't entirely numb and it seems to be getting more feeling back as time goes on.
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Hello I was dx on December 8,2008 I had my first treatment THC on Monday Jan 12.I have been reading the boards since dx.I am appreciative of all the wonderful info it has helped me so much,taken away alot of fear.So far I had a tired day yesterday but am feeling good again.One day at a time is how Im looking at this.I am Paula just want to say Hello and hope to continue to get support from all you beutiful ladies who our in it with me! 0 -
You got it Paula!!!!!
I am so glad I found this group. They have been a very powerful source of support.
You can do it. One day at a time!
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Hello ladies. I havent posted in a very long time but still get emails of when someone does....and I do read them and have enjoyed following your progress. I know some of you have had a lot of ups and downs,,,,,,,,but kudos to you all. I just wanted to say how so very proud I am of all you ladies and how well you have been handling your treatments. A lot of you are done now,,,,,,and to those new ladies that have joined.....a big welcome to you all. For those of you new ones,,,,,,,as you can see from everyones posts,,,,,,,,there is light at the end of the tunnel. You all will soon be there,,,,,,,,take the support from all the lovely ladies here..........as those of us who have been thru the tunnel know that soon it will be a distant memory. For those of you that are going thru this at the same time,,,,,,,,,embrace each others words and kindness. You all have something to share and compare with one another.
A gigantic whoo hoo to those of you that are done. You have accomplished a milestone with dignity and great courage.
I have been good. Had another mammo and all is still clear. yeahhhhhh!!!
Hi to everyone,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and hope 2009 brings good health and happiness.
Cindy
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Thanks Blue that is good to know. Welcome Starmom to camp chemo. There are such a wonderful group of campers here.
Hey Cindy look at your sight you begun, who would have known. Glad your Cancer Free and checking in on your campers from time to time.
I met with my onc today and she has encouraged me to go ahead and do the Radiation. Like many of you have said that to take a chance that something might be left is just to much to risk. She said at this point I would have a 30% chance of the cancer coming back if any thing was left, and that is just to much of a risk for as far as I have come. Don't want any of those legs laying around to start all over again. Thanks for your support. I remembered all you told me when I was in her office today. It helped me make my decision. Naw I didn't want to, but its just a bump in the road on the rest of my life so its ok. My calendar WAS empty, but the time I left her office I have another MUGA, as I will be continuing with the Herceptin until the middle of June to finish up the year with it. Then the Lymphdema Therapist to take care of that, then a bone density test as I now am starting on Arimidex for five years and that has a record of weakening bones. The surgeons will have to be put on hold for just a little bit longer. Man and I almost had a clean break..lol
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Hi Campers -
I've had more visitors from the frigid Midwest, so I haven't posted for awhile. Nice to see Cindy checking in and welcome, Paula. The camp clinic is kind of scary, but the other campers are super nice.
Bethany, congratulations!!! Done with rads - what a wonderful step on the road to "Been there, done that."
Shelby, sorry your surgery was postponed, but I'm sure it's best that they don't risk any complications. Ah, you'll love being able to roll over and sleep on your stomach again. Another positive side effect I've discovered is that my implant is a constant weight check - the real boob expanded during my gluttonous 8-pound Christmas weight gain, and since the implant side is a little smaller anyway, I know I have to keep it in check or become totally lopsided.
Lisa, sorry your camping trip was cancelled. Good for you for fitting some fun stuff into your life during treatment.
Cupcake, after al you've been through, rads will probably be the proverbial walk in the park. You are such a source of encouragement for all the women going through treatment right now, I nominate you for the Head Counselor position.
I go for my diagnostic mammo tomorrow - the anchor incision underneath (from the lift) is still itchy, so I hope they don't squeeze too hard.
Wishing everybody a good weekend. Go Cardinals!
Sue
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Hey Sue good to hear from you. Man Head COUNSELOR? Wow eee! Thanks. I remember when I was a counselor at our church camp I got in more trouble than the girls. lol I'll try and be a better role model. Are you happy with your Foob? I will have to wait now to get mine if I take the rads. Oh well.
Hey any of you Mastectomy gals have numbness on the OTHER side? My pinkie finger on the opposite side of the Mastectomy is numb and two fingers next to it some. What's that all about? I have it under the arm where the surgery is, but even that hand isn't numb.??? Maybe not related, but weird it happens now. Is everyone on Arimidex for five years?
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Hi there. I'm Lori. 50y/o. Had bilateral skin sparing mastectomy with expanders placed 11/13/08. I'm filled to the size I want to be (C) but the PS surgeon says he'll add another 20% to accomodate some loss of stretch and then do the exchange but not until I'm 3 months post chemo.
Stage 1 PR/ER/HER2+ both breasts. Sentinel nodes were clear. It showed up from one yearly mammo/ultra to the next.
I found my way here because today was my first visit to the chemo lounge. TCH every 3 weeks for 6 weeks, H every week for 52 treatments so I'll be in the lounge every week for a year. The port goes in on 1/30. Just wanted to introduce myself and say it's encouraging to read some good reports on this regimen. Thanks!
This whole deal has been pretty overwhelming. I'm an RN, went through two rounds of cancer with my mom who was also an RN. She had breast cancer at 54 with node involvement, did mastectomy and chemo. 11 years later it was back in the bones and she lived another 3 years doing chemo and refusing to quit. I was her caregiver for that very hard final year. She died 5 years ago.
Fortunately things have progressed diagnosis and tx wise since then so I'm mostly beating back my tiny thought that I'll go through all this only to die bald and boobless. : ) Early catch, better drugs. Okay, good to say that out loud. : )
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