Bottle o Tamoxifen
Comments
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MTG - please don't eat those soy burgers!! You are ER/PR + and soy is a no-no for us girls!! I did check with the people who make veggie burgers - the only ones that are soy-free are their original veggie patties. No soy in those, but everything else that they make (bummer!).
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I haven't had that happen Brenda, but, I haven't been on tamox that long. Let us know how you do.
Susie
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Caroline, I am glad your boob is better. Makes no sense, or, does it? I figured mine was still sore from rads.
OMG turkey day is almost here!
Susie
Gobble Gobble
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Good for you, chelev, for picking up MTG's post - I missed it. YIKES how to negate the 'goodness' of the big T.
That said, last night I cheated big time with phytoestrogens - had a cup of delicious curried squash-lentil soup and my weekly-treat-to-myself glass of red wine. For the first time in weeks, my boob feels better - go figure!!!
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Caroline and Chelev -
I love that you guys have my back !
And I know that there's a lot of controversy out there about soy and many, many of us avoid it completely or as completely as possible) just to be safe. However, it seems to me that studies conflict (there even seems to be a positive one cited today on the Natural Girls thread but I will need to read it carefully later). It also seems that there's a huge difference between those doses of soy in supplements (which I do not take) and soy in veggie burgers and the like. My doctors and I have had a couple of LONG conversations about it because I know it is such a major issue on this site. Both my BS and my med onc - who are tops in their field in 2 NY hospitals - seem to feel that even several veggie burgers a week (and we actually talked numbers) will not be a problem for me.
My bottom line right now - I'm cutting back but still eating it a few times a week. I'm looking into substitutes. (Amy's original veggie burgers are the only non soy ones out there except for super hight calorie ones which I wont consider. And I'm trying to eat more chicken.) In February, I will have the test to see how I metabolize T and may cut back even more once I get the results. I will continue to read the studies and research out there. I will keep an open mind. And, even though I'm not swearing off soy, I truly appreciate that you guys care enough to give me feedback and keep me questioning my decisions.
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Hi MTG,
Check out:
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=12091.0
in part:
"Women who do not have estrogen receptor positive breast tumors, and who do not have a strong family history of breast cancer, may eat all the soy they wish. For these women, the weak soy estrogen may actually protect against breast cancer by fitting into the receptor sites on breast tissue where estrogen usually attaches. Thus, preventing the more powerful human estrogen from attaching and starting the cancer causing process.
However, women with or at risk for estrogen stimulated cancers are cautioned to limit their intake of soy until researchers know for sure that plant estrogen will not stimulate their cancer to grow. Although plant estrogen is much weaker than human estrogen, there is a concern that any form of estrogen may stimulate tumor development in these women.
Additionally, women on Tamoxifen therapy are also urged to limit their consumption of soy-based products. Tamoxifen which is given to many breast cancer patients, is also similar to the soy isoflavone genistein. Both are able to combat tumors that contain estrogen receptors, both work on strogen-positive and negative cells, and both work by attaching to estrogen receptor sites. In order to get the most benefit from Tamoxifen, it is recommended that the intake of weak plant estrogen be restricted."and it goes on.
Because almost every package lable I read has some soy in it (even herbal teas!), I am avoiding SELECTING it to eat....
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Then from this site:
there is this:
Mixed Interaction
Like tamoxifen, soy isoflavones have both estrogen-like and anti-estrogen actions. Test-tube and animal studies suggest that relatively low doses of soy isoflavones interfere with the ability of tamoxifen to inhibit breast cancer growth, but high doses of isoflavones augment the effectiveness of tamoxifen.1
Go figure.
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Then from this site:
there is this:
Mixed Interaction
Like tamoxifen, soy isoflavones have both estrogen-like and anti-estrogen actions. Test-tube and animal studies suggest that relatively low doses of soy isoflavones interfere with the ability of tamoxifen to inhibit breast cancer growth, but high doses of isoflavones augment the effectiveness of tamoxifen.1
Reference: 1. Liu B, Edgerton S, Yang X, et al. Low-dose dietary phytoestrogen abrogates tamoxifen-associated mammary tumor prevention. Cancer Res. 2005;65:879-86.Go figure.
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Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the warm welcome. I am still doing fine on Tamoxifen..not feeling like it is affecting me in any way. We'll see how I am towards then end of the bottle. I just sat down and read the long 2 page insert of how tamoxifen works and the side effects. It actually states that a side effect is "Weigh Loss" not weight gain. No mention of weight gain anywhere on these papers. We'll see how it affects me. All I know is I have been killing myself at the gym and eating very well so I hope I only see a loss not any gains.
Any of you experience irregular or loss of menstrual period while on Tamox?
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Caroline,
Up till now I've been focusing on whether or not Soy causes cancer to grow (and there's a Q and A by one of the doctors on this site, http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/everyone/question/soy.jsp, that is very similar to my own position), the possible interference of soy with Tamoxifen is something I had not focused on. The info you've provided raises a new question for me; it's an interesting and scary point and certainly I will put it at the top of my research list - as in read more on the subject NOW not later. Thank you. (And PS, you've just proved to me why it's so important to keep an open mind. You've raised a totally different aspect then I had been looking into.) Thanks again.
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hi there Tamoxi-pals,
Hope you are all doing well. I missed a couple of days coming here, reading the posts, and now I think I may never get caught up....
Susie... glad you are feeling better. sorry you were feeling cruddy... I felt achey all over after I got the flu shot. I only got the seasonal flu shot, not the H1N1... my primary care dr. told me that the H1N1 will be included in the seasonal flu shot next year. I told him that I think I'll wait til next year...
Just a quick question... does anyone know which anti depressants are safe for us to take??
I just read that Wellbutrin is a POTENT INHIBITOR of Tamoxifen... so now I guess it's back to the drawing board...
Welcome to all the new riders on this crazy Tamoxi train!!
Hugs
Harley
PS ....about 18 more Tamoxifen pills for me... the countdown continues....
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Harley-I know Effexor is safe with the tamox. I take 75mg, (started taking it for hot flashes) but lately I have been feeling so depressed! And now I am getting joint pain. I have been on the tamox about 6 months. Has this happened to anyone else?
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kjbell,I also take Effexor but I take 150 mg.I have been on Tamoxifen for about 2 years and I hate to say the joint pain is just getting worse.My toes hurt so bad sometimes it makes me cry.My knees are pretty bad too,if I bend down I can't get up without help.Same thing goes for getting in and out of the car.I see 80 year olds that move 100 times better than me.It seems this is a never ending merry-go-round and I can't get off.I am so glad to be alive and NED but my quality of life is zilch.We also had a very similar diagnosis.I hope you find some relief.Please let me know if you do.I'd love to have just 1 pain free day.
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Lisaelder1972- Have you tried yoga?? I have had terrible problems with my hip since starting T and have found that this is the only thing that helps. Stretching the muscles out a few times a week really helped me. You have to start slow with an easy tape or class. I can definitly see the difference since I started doing it.0
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Hi To All,
This is one busy place right now. And lots of interesting topics. I wish we could throw all the emails into a huge computer and have it spit out a concise view of each of our concerns.
Off the Big T subject and onto the Big TG Day subject ~~
I'm going to get my bird ready today and everything else except the mashed potatoes and will bake it tomorrow. Then on Thursday I make salad and mashed potatoes and slowly warm the rest. That way, I enjoy the day without being super tired. I've done this for the past 3 years and found it to work out just great.
Anyone else do this ??? I was getting my hair cut one season when I heard this group of women talking about how they did it. I thought....Hey~~ I think I'll try that.
Bonnie
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Okay, what's bad about lentil soup??? I LOVE lentils. Are they a phytoestrogen too??? Crap - what can we eat??0
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Kjbell & lisaelder19 - The joint pain sucks and as Lisa notes, quality of life is an issue. We're smart women here; many have come before us and so they must have some solution. Ladies ?
In the meantime, when I was first researching T, I took notes about SE and potential remedies that were used to varying degrees of success. Here's the ones from my section on joint pains:
1) Try detox soaks. I cup epsom salt/ 1 cup baking soda, for 10 minutes, then work your way up on time,
2) glucosamine chondroitin for joints--it helps with the pain. (I checked this off these boards; sounds good but still ask your docs; if I have problems, I'll probably look into this one first)
3) traumeel ointment/ Traumeel tablets - said to be a "fabulous pain reliever" but I have not yet looked into this The poster bought it at iHerb.com.
4) Fish oil or Omega 3 pills - Not certain how it works for joints but I've been taking it for years and my cardiologist literally raves about my good cholesterol level.
5) Tonic water - My medonc actually recommended this as a mild muscle relaxant. SOme women are concerned that it can suppress T but those studies are using medical (much stronger) Quinine. Note - this seems to be used more for leg cramps and soreness not joint pain.
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Lisa-Yep, the pain in my feet and knees are crazy. The absolute worst pain is in my wrist. I woke up one night in pain like I never felt before. The pain is so random, but it makes me feel about 80 too.
MTG-I will ask the onc when I see him again in Jan about some of your suggestions.
Now that I am done with all tx (except Tamox), I was thinking maybe I should see the "regular" doc about the pain, but if it is Tamox caused, I should wait till my appt in Jan. How do you know who you should see for what?
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Hello All!
I'm back on the T-train after a two month vacation of sorts. I was taken off the tamox after experiencing intense headaches that lasted about three to four hours a day if I didn't throw every OTC pain med at it when they first started. So, now after an MRI of my brain came back normal, and a really heavy period that lasted three weeks(yipes!), my onc seems to believe that my hormones just went completely haywire and had a hand in my headaches. Now that my system seems to have settled down a bit...I'm going to give the tamox another go.
So, I thought I would pop my head in and say "Hello." Now I've got to go back and catch up on A LOT of posts!!!!
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M~~
I already take Omega 3 fish oil for the dry eyes caused by the big T. My eye doctor got me on
that. And I've taken Glucosamine-Chondroiton for years for bursitis of the knee. It doesn't help
everyone but I lucked out as one it did. And the fish oil will help even more. Maybe that's why
my T foot pains got much better. I hardly get those at all any more.
Nice to see lots of you jumping on....or back on the train.
Bonnie
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I am reading about your soy conversation and based on what I searched and on discussions with my oncologist who is one of the tops in UCLA in LA - soy in moderation shouldn't cause harm. We are not talking supplements but occasional veggie burger or soy sauce etc.
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eadsla...if your onc seems to think your hormones "went haywire"...did he/she have you get them tested to see what they are doing? Might be interesting to know!
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Hi
I'm new to this thread, but wanted to ask you all about my situation. I've been on Tamoxifen for 3 1/2 months now. I am pre-menopausal and my period has gotten heavier and more painful each month.
After one month on Tamox, I had some bleeding during the middle of my cycle. My OBGYN wanted to test for cervical cancer, which was negative. But she said my uterine lining was very thick and now wants to try a Mirena IUD to relieve some of my symptoms. I have a call into the Oncologist bc the Mirena contains progestin. All of the literature says not to use Mirena in patients with breast cancer.
Anyway, I have two questions - has anyone experienced increased bleeding with Tamoxifen (I thought it was going to push me into menopause and stop the bleeding)?
Has anyone heard of using the Mirena IUD in breast cancer patients?
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Rose, the one thing I do know that is if you have unexplained bleeding on tamox, to call your doctor right away. It could be a sign of something. I am going to say this, so, pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee noone beat me up, but, if you have noticed, there are a LOT of gyno problems with women on tamox. And, there are LOTS that have to have a hysterectomy after taking tamox. It does seem to "stir" things up down there. I told my oncologist that if I started having problems like that, I was going to take a break from it.
Bonnie, wow, you are so together for Turkey Day! I can't wait. I love turkery and I am starving for it now. lol
MTG, have you started tamox yet? If so, how are you doing on it?
I think there are only 3 antidepressants that are considered safe on tamox. I will have to look them up and post them later. Most of the main ones are NO NO's!
Susie
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So, what is everyone doing for Thanksgiving this year! I just have to take a couple of things to my Aunt's, so no biggee. I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving! I have so much to be thankful for!
Susie
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Susie - I started on the 14th so only 10 days down...too early to tell about SE.
Happy Almost Thanksgiving Everyone !
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Ok MTG. You are new to it than like me. So far, I just have headaches, but, they are getting better. Hoping that they go away all together. lol I take Excedrin and they are GONE!
Wishing you good luck on it and hopefully no SE's! Wouldn't that be great?
Yes, Happy Thanksgiving!
Susie
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I wonder if all of you beautiful ladies are busy cooking something for Turkey Day? I haven't started my stuff yet, but, will soon.
Does anyone have a recipe for Cranberry Salad? I thought I might try to make it. I would just have to go back to the store. UGH lol
And, guess what? No headache today! YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Susie
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Luna--I don't think that my onc tested my hormones unless it was something that was done at the same time as having my blood tested during my normal follow-up. He did say that I was definitely premenopausal from my blood tests...as if a three week period didn't confirm that! I'm just hoping that I'm one of those people who had SEs , took a break, restarted and had the SEs not come back. My onc did mention that this time around with the tamox that the hot flashes I experienced before should also be lessened this time around. Of course now all I'll have to do is wait and see. The first time around, it took about a month before I noticed SEs, and it took about two months before the headaches kicked in.
I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving. This is the first year in a long time that I had something tangible for which to give thanks. Normally, I'm just grateful for all the little things as a general rule, but this year I am especially thankful for having made it through this year with my humor and optimism in tact and knowing that there are very special people in my life.
And judging by all the posts here at BC.org, I know I'm not alone in this!
Catherine
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