Anyone on just Taxotere and Cytoxan?
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Hi all you TC warriors...You can add me to the list. I started TCx4 on Sept. 8 (for Shari232's survey I do not have a port...my onc didn't think I needed it for 4 treatments-thought my veins looked good-hope they continue to look good). As far as my side effects...I was fine for the first few days after my treatment and then from day 3-6 anything I ate went right through me-lost 7 lbs in 5 days. Regrouped after that and felt great on day 7-8. Day 9 got thrush(had really sore mouth and gums from day 6-9). Started on nystatin. Day 10 had a flight out to visit friends and on arrival at my destination had an emergency call from my onc that my white count from the day before was dangerously low, I needed to get on antibiotics right away and get to the nearest hospital to be admitted if I developed at fever. So...I turned right around and flew back home. Worst place in the world to be with a dangerously low white count-airplane and airport. By the time I got home I had a full blown cold so I am laying low for a while.I learned my lesson the hard way.Fortunately, no fever. Anyone else have extremely low white count and if so how long did it take to rebound? I'm hoping it rebounds by Sept. 29 when I am due for my next treatment.
L
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Sue, best of luck to you. We're all here for you.
Shari, my oncologist didn't really ask me, he told me that I would have a port for the 4 treatments. I have had no trouble with it, easy same day surgery, and it worked really well for the first treatment which I had last Monday. At the chemo class they did mention that they usually like to leave them in for a while and not take them out right after the 4th treatment. I'll check that with my surgeon at my follow up visit next week. So far, it doesn't bother me at all and I don't have to worry about that poke in the vein each time.
Chris
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HI everyone:
I started TC on September 17th. I felt fine the first day. The second day I wound up with a bad case of irritable bowel syndrome. I went back the second day for my first neupogen shot and by the third day started having bone pain. On day 2 wound up with a white coated tongue and taking Diflucan... not sure if I should have asked for Nystatin instead of adding another medication into my system. I'm feeling pretty icky... like my lab values must be off the wall.... didn't expect to feel so "poisoned". I'm thinking this may be more due to the Neupogen rather than the chemo. What do you think? Now I know what we use terms like "warrior"... this is war!!
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Rickster - I finished 4tx of TC on 8/14. For me, the first couple of days of each treatment were fine. I got a little tireder and nauseous a little more often as the treatments progressed, but the bone pain was about the same each treatment. However, I have found that the fatigue tends to hang on more after the last treatment. Thought I'd be back to normal by now, but not quite there yet.
Shari - I did not have a port. I asked my onco if I needed one and he said that he didn't recommend if for only four tx but if I wanted one he'd order it. So, I gathered from that that either way works. Just depends on the doc and what type of veins you have.
Lili46 - Each treatment I had extremely low wbc (my highest was 2 and my lowest was .6). I had my blood work done before each treatment and every time my count had gone back to normal by then. I'm very thankful that even with my lowest count, I never had to go to the hospital.
Good luck to all who are just starting. It's not easy, but it is doable!
Kathy
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I just want to disagree with something someone said today, that how good of shape you are in or how good of a diet you have before TC or your age does not determine your SEs or lack thereof. Some women have severe SEs, some have moderate, and some have few. How do I know this? I was in excellent health before TC, walked 12-20 miles a week and had an excellent diet. I had severe SEs the first round and moderate for the next two. Just want to be realistic here. My oncologist told me that in Europe, if you have very few SEs, they are upping the dose because they believe that chemo is not as effective for those folks. I don't want to create fear for those of you fortunate enough to have few SEs, but neither should you feel somehow guilty that you caused your SEs if you have them. Nor should we feel guilty about having cancer.
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Lani... You bring up an excellent point, not only related to SE's, but to getting BC. When I was first DX'd, I was angry because I eat a very healthy diet. I shop in the more natural food markets, read about nutrition and have used natural vitamin supplements for years. I walk 2 to 3 miles a day. So, there I'd be in a supermarket watching women with baskets of soft drinks and frozen meals and junk food, and I'd just think, this is just soooo unfair!!!
And the same is true for SE's. As healthy as I am, I've had 2 or 3 lousy, can't do anything days after each tx. I've just come to the conclusion that each us will react in a unique way to these drugs. Plus, we're probably not all getting the same pre-meds either, which I think are often the SE culprits as much as the TC.
Rickster... to answer your specific question... If you don't have to fly or drive too far, and if you can leave and get home safely if you start to feel bad, the seminar might take your mind off chemo and any mild SE's. But if you have to drive a distance, I'd maybe forego that seminar to be on the safe side. The SE's came on a bit sooner for me w/TX #2 and the exhaustion lasted longer. I've just had #3 and, though similar, the SE's weren't as bad this time.
Welcome SueG and Lili46! Deanna
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Hi Ladies, Well I am starting to feel a little better today. This is my 5th day after tx #4. I think for me every tx was a little different. The first one was not bad, I thought wow this isn't too bad I think I had just one day of feeling terrible. The second one was pretty bad. Broke out in hives felt very fatigued, irritable, emotional, depressed. Also had a temp of 101.4 and had to take antibotics later for a UTI. Which prolonged my 3rd Tx. The 3rd one was not too bad. I did have some days of fatigue, no sore mouth, one day of nausea. Now this 4th one. I don't know if I can say it was the worst, but day 3 was terrible couldn't get out the bed most of the day, just very fatigued and had severe bone pain. I feel like now I am through the worst of it. I pray. But like some of you said, I think I was pretty much in good shape, I did watch what I ate, I would drink green tea every morning, walked every break at work, and worked out at least 3 x a week. Took my natural vitamins, shopped at natural food stores. I would say out of all my family members, I was always more health conscious. So I don't understand either.
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I do have a question for everyone, Only if you don't mind answering. Did any of you frequent Casinos? Like every week or every 2 weeks? Just curious because I did go almost every 2 weeks for the past 2 years. I live about 10 min away from an Indian Casino, I'm just wondering if being around the second hand smoke could have contributed to this.0
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Amann... The explanation I've heard since my dx that made the most sense to me is that developing bc happens over a number of years, fueled by a combination of multiple factors that impact our individual immune systems -- exposure to carcinogens or hormones, for example; then perhaps a rough emotional time (a death, divorce, serious financial stress, etc.), then exposure to something else. The second-hand smoke in a casino is no doubt horrible for our respiratory systems, but I doubt if it alone caused you to develop bc. I also believe there are probably genetic factors that haven't yet been discovered. Deanna
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Hi dlb823
sorry to be in the dark, but what do you mean you pmd me giving link to UCLA. Where do I find that link? Thanks Birdsong
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HI ALL,
I am on my 3rd TX and am noticing a few red blochy spots here and there. Just a couple and aplace on my cheek also. Anyone had that and what did you do for it. Thanks Birdsong
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Birdsong... When you log onto this site, there is a tab next to My Favorite Topics that says Private Messages. It's a private email system for board users, so that we don't have to post our email addresses if we want to exchange information or support without posting it. If someone sends you PM, it will be indicated there. Deanna
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Speaking of blotchy spots... I don't really have that, so much as I have developed this horrible case of acne on my face and even on my head. It is very painful! I am wondering if it has anything to do with hormone levels due to the chemo. Does anyone have experience with this SE?
At the "Look Good..." class I attended, one woman brougt up a product line called "Lindi Skin" that is for chemo and rads patients. A product sample of their lotion was included in our goodie bag and it is nice. They carry face and body products and can be found at Lindiskin.com. I wonder if this might be helpful for you Birdsong.
Thanks, Meg
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Yes Birdsong, I started breaking out since my 2nd TX. The nurse said it could be from the Taxotere, it's like an allergic reaction. I was just told to take benadryl. Matter of fact last night I broke out and I took the benadryl and it went away. But after I took a warm shower this morning, It started coming back, but it comes and goes.
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Thank you Deanna, That makes since.
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Hello everyone
Well I cut my hair because I'm approaching the 14 day mark on 9/23 and will start losing hair soon. I have been experiencing a headache for the past few days but I otherwise feel good. I hope my next TX will go well. Take care.0 -
Hi all,
Amann - I too wonder if the second hand smoke I was exposed to as a child contributed to the bc. My father and stepfather both smoked along with a few of my brothers and so the house I lived in up until I was 18 years old had second hand smoke. I do agree with Deanna though, there are a host of other things that have contributed as well.
Lani - You are so right about the SEs. We are all different and how we react to the drugs can be somewhat different, regardless of what kind of shape we were in before our diagnosis. This disease is so complicated and I think it is only natural for us to search for reasons why this happened to us or why it should not have, but if it were completely understood there would be a cure and we wouldn't have to go through this.
I am very interested in the info on the wheatgerm oil, thanks to those that posted it. I believe that there are natural remedies that can work and I also believe in science and western medicine. The problem is that the bridge that needs to occur between the two has not been fully built yet and so that puts us in a situation where we have to make our own decisions about which natural remedies we want to try.
My 2nd treatment is Wednesday the 24th, but for now my DH and I are going to celebrate our 24th wedding anniversary, it's tomorrow!
Best of luck to all the newcomers!!
Sherrie
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Katie2U - for what it's worth, I can hardly tolerate the nystantin (sp?). I had/have thrush and you have to swish and swallow it - nasty! I would much rather take a pill! Hope you are feeling better.
Susan
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Hi Ladies - Just thought I would pop back in to let all of you who are currently in treatment know that there really is life after treatment. I had my last chemo on April 30th and finished radiation on July 10th. Hair came back in nicely - still a bit shorter than I used to wear it but definitely respectable. Been on Tamoxifen since end of July and fortunately not having many SEs with that ither. This board was my lifesaver going through treatment. I wil always be gratetful to the women who shared their experiences to make "the journey that none of us wanted to take" easier.
If I can be of any help, send me a message. I'm working full-time again and up to my eyeballs in volunteering so not on the boards that much anymore.
Wishing you all an easy time of your treatments.
Joan
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Lani... I see you're scheduled for #4 tomorrow! Good luck! We'll be thinking about you.
Joan... Thanks for popping in. You made me realize that when you're in the midst of chemo, you're so focused on the day-to-day of getting through it and the SE's and our tx calendars and what we're neglecting because we don't have the energy to do it, that you kind of stop thinking about the future in a normal context. I felt very relieved and encouraged when I read your post. Thank you! Deanna
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Joan - Thanks so much for letting us know there is life after TC. As previously mentioned, I will be having my first treatment on Oct. 1 and fear of the unknown is doing my head in! Reading your encouraging message helps me to skip to that place instead of focusing on the dreadful possibilities in between!
Deanna - Thanks for the welcome.
Amann - I am with Deanna on this one. I do not believe it is just one thing that causes this disease. When I was diagnosed 14 years ago with my first primary an oncologist I knew who had also trained in epidemiology told me that being diagnosed with bc was like going through a series of gates. Some people move through one or two gates, or risks, for bc and never reach the 'destination' of bc. These 'gates' or risks might be enviromental or genetic etc. etc. Other people, like us, move through more 'gates' and reach the 'destination'. It was an image I found easy to understand. Extending the metaphor maybe I will start to think of surgery, chemo, hormonal treatment etc. as the locks on those gates.
Sherrie - Happy Anniversary!
Thanks again everyone for being there.
Sue
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Deanna, thanks for your kind wishes. Your posts are always helpful.
Sue, try not to worry too much ahead of time. Your worries will be worse than the reality, and you will be fine. --Lani
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Hi Everyone,
I have a question regarding the bone pain.
I just started chemo ( Cytoxan and Adriamycin) last Wednesday. Per my onc I was to only take NSAIDS like Advil for severe bone pain, otherwise stick with Tylenol EX. I did this the 1st two days. The Advil started out OK, but then was actually making my bone pain worse- I have the same problem with bruising and bleeding when I take NSAIDS that both my mother and my grandfather have had. Also, the Tylenol is doing NOTHING to relieve my bone pain, and I am very frustrated.
I will not take any more NSAIDS as they are dangerous for me. BTW, I told my onc this the other night when my husband and I called in aft hrs, you would think he would have listened.
Are there any other suggestions as to what can do or take to help relieve the bone pain while going through chemo? I am using a heating pad, but that only lasts so long.
Thanks for your help,
Josie : )
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Josie... Is the bone pain from the chemo or did you also get a Neulasta shot, which definitely causes bone pain? For the latter, many women find Claritin helps. Most pharmacies have a generic version that's the same as the name brand. I'm not sure if it works for the pain if it's not from Neulasta, but it's probably worth a shot if your onc will okay it. Its single active ingredient is an antihistimine, but it seems to address the bone pain. Hot baths (similar to a heating pad), may give you some relief. My bone pain was horrible for tx #1 (I actually resorted to a Vicodan I had left from surgery one night), but almost non-existent for tx's #2 & #3. Hopefully, you've already ridden out the worst of it, but don't be afraid to be demanding with your onc about giving you something if you continue to suffer. Let us know how you do... Deanna
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Hi, all--it's otter again.
Josie, my onco said to start out taking ibuprofen (Advil) for the bone pain, which could be caused by Neulasta or Neupogen but could also be due to Taxotere (for those of us who had Taxotere). She said ibuprofen was okay for the first 5 or 6 days after the infusion, but to stop after that because it would mask a fever. Our onco's want to know if we develop temps above 100.4 because that's an early sign of an infection.
I was told that if the ibuprofen wasn't strong enough, I should take one of the narcotic pain relievers I had left over from surgery. I had a whole bottle of Percocet left, but I didn't need to use any of it during chemo. The ibuprofen and a nap (curled up under a blanket) seemed to work.
Lani, you are so right about there being no particular way to predict the severity of SE's with chemo. Being healthy or not doesn't seem to matter, although I've heard several people swear that continuing to get a bit of exercise (like walking) helped reduce the aches and pains.
I hope nobody is offended, but I am amused when someone says, "Oh, I worked FULL TIME all throughout chemo!" ... and then goes on to explain, "Of course I scheduled my chemo on a Thursday and took that day off; I worked on Friday; Saturday and Sunday I stayed in bed; and I took Monday off because I still felt awful." I don't know about y'all, but that wouldn't be full-time employment where I used to be. Maybe if that person went on to work 8 hours a day every day for the remaining 2 weeks, it's pretty close to full-time. Otherwise, heck, don't stress over being sore or pukey or having that run-over-by-a-truck feeling. It's perfectly normal. You're being chemo-ed.
Meg, birdsong, and others with blotchy skin: Some of the blotches may be "folliculitis", which can develop on your scalp during chemo. Tell your onco about it--he/she may want to give you an antibiotic. Mine said to wash my scalp with baby shampoo instead of regular shampoo or soap. That helped a lot--my scalp bumps cleared up in about 5 days, even without antibiotics. I did get a mild case of hives from day 3 through day 6 of tx #2, but they were totally different from the folliculitis.
Finally, I don't think there is any single thing that causes BC. Maybe if we are BRCA1 or BRCA2 positive, we can blame that as the most likely factor; but for the majority of us, it's a combination of what has gone on throughout our lives.
Some stupid cell in a breast duct somewhere develops a glitch in its genes in just the wrong place, causing its growth-control devices to go awry; the repair mechanisms that are supposed to find and correct such spontaneous genetic errors don't do their job; the backup mechanisms that should identify and kill the defective cell don't work; the defective cell begins to divide uncontrollably; our immune system fails to identify and kill the now-growing cluster of defective cells; certain "normal" growth factors, like estradiol or HER2, speed the growth of the cells; some of the cells in the cluster develop the ability to break through the wall of the duct and move into the surrounding breast tissue; and VOILA! we have invasive breast cancer.
There are so many steps that have to go wrong to enable us to develop cancer... It's kind of an amazing process, if you can forget that it's happening to you, personally.
otter
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Otter - Very well said about the causes of BC. I've felt that way about all cancers for quite a while and I used to work in cancer research labs. I think lots of people probably have slow-growing cancers they don't even know about - many of them will never know (Guess I had BC for a few years before I knew about it!). At least we have the consolation of knowing that we're tackling it now, and hopefully all the chemo might even be tackling other, slow-growing cancers we don't even know about!
Gina
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Thanks for all your input. I do believe it could be a # of things, that could have contributed. You just wish you can pin point it. It just seems hard to say o.k. no more pork or beef, or no more chicken unless it's organic or no more soy products, or no more drinking out of plastic bottles. Where do you draw the line? You can't avoid everything.Is there a way to tell how long the cancer was growing in your body, if it's grade 3? I've heard some people say the docs told them it's been in their bodies for years like 5 to 10 yrs. I'm thinking maybe it was a grade 1, a slower growing tumor.
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Thanks Otter, you were right! I saw my onc today and she did say it was folliculitis. She gave me a topical script to start, and will call in an antibiotic if that doesn't work.
Because of my moderate bone pain from the Neulasta, my onc is only going to give me a portion of the shot with my next Tx. That shot is "one size fits all", but because I am a smaller person, she feels that I can reduce the dosage and still keep my WBC's up. They were fine today - 3 weeks into my first Tx.
Today is day 15 and my hair is definitely starting to come out. I will actually be glad when it is gone because my scalp hurts like a bad ponytail that's been left in too long!
For what it's worth, I read this interesting information in "Your Breast Cancer Treatment Handbook", by Judy C. Kneece RN, OCN,. Cancer cells double their size on an average of every 100 days. So, from 2 to 4 cells in 100 days; from 4 to 8 in the next 100: 8 to 16 in the next 100, etc. Therefore, "A tumor which doubles every 100 days (the estimated average doubling time) would have been in your body approximately eight to ten years when it reaches about one centimeter in size (3/8 inch) - the size of the tip of your smallest finger."
Hope everyone is off to a good week. Blessings! Meg
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Good morning everyone,
I have been reading all the posts here and since I finally have a date for my 1st tx I decided to join. I will be starting on 10/9 with 4 tx of TC. My BC was IDC, 2 tumors in the right breast with a combinded size of 3 cm. I had a R mastectomy on 7/29 with immediate reconstruction (pedicle TRAM flap) and a reduction on the L side. I'm really anxious to get this second phase of the treatment started, but am very nervous about the potential SE. I had a few complications with the surgery so am really hoping for an easier time with the chemo....we shall see! But I can't tell you how much all of your comments have helped ease some of my anxiety, so thank you!
My onco told me that he does not typically give the Neulasta shot, but in my case (since I still have some open wounds from the surgery) I will have to get it because of my increased risk of infection. I am really nervous about the bone pain because I can not take Motrin/Advil because I developed blood clots in my leg & lungs 2 weeks post-op and am now on blood thinners (I have to give myself Lovenox injections 2x per day in my stomach). He said that he would try other things like narcotics, which I hate to take but will if it helps. I'm just curious...how long after the shot does the bone pain kick in, and how long does it last? I'm just wondering because I was really hoping to be able to work most of the time during treatments. My boss is really great and I was told that I could take an intermittent leave during treatment so I could pretty much come and goes as I pleased. I have quite a bit of sick time saved up, about 7 weeks, but have been out from the surgery since 7/29. I know that our health is more important, but I just want some normalcy back in my life!!
Thanks and have a great day! Jen
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Welcome, Jen! First, I have to say that I am really surprised that either your PS or your onc would let you start chemo with an open wound. I had a bit of necrosis with my Diep flap, and had to wait an extra few weeks to start chemo, as neither doc would okay it until everything was totally healed and closed. It's not only the very serious risk of infection, it's the fact that the healing will totally stop while you're on the chemo, which exacerbates the risk of infection.
As far as the bone pain, as you've no doubt read here a lot, each of us is a bit different. Personally, I had worse bone pain w/tx #1 in one leg from the chemo itself (I think) -- terrible deep aching that kept me up at night -- than the pain from the Neulasta which seems to hit me in the chest (clavical) and hips, and was more of an intermittent throbbing that would come on suddenly, and is easily resolved with a couple of Tyelnols.
As far as working through your tx's, again, everyone is different, but there seems to be some pattern with many of us of feeling the worst around days 3 & 4 (flu-like, exhausted). So, if you can have those days hit over the weekend, and if you bounce back quickly, it might save you sick days.
Hope this helps. So sorry you have to join us, but we're here for you! Deanna
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