Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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AliceBastable, Religion started with storytelling and in every age most believed the stories to be absolutely true and a minority understood them to be stories. Indoctrination may cloud the issue but I think at the core there is a mental difference between atheists approach to stories and a believer's approach. I was thoroughly indoctrinated in my religion, but still stopped believing or realized I didn't believe in my early 20's. Do atheists stop believing or do they realize that they never believed? Were bible stories always Santa Clause stories to us?
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I'm really glad reality is enough for me. I never believed.... but the again both parents and all 4 of my grandparents were not religious.
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Just a thought or maybe a question. Story telling of experience, story telling by way of explanation, story telling as in lies, story telling for fireside entertainment. a clear definition helps
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I was definitely born a non-believer. In 3rd grade I heard about a plan to have me baptized (insisted on by my Roman Catholic grandparents) but when my parents came to get me from school, I had already ditched. I clearly stated that any further attempts would end the same way. I never understood how people could believe the stories from the Bible or in Santa Claus either.
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My mother died when I was 4. I was told that God wanted her in heaven. I never trusted him after that. I thought he sure had a funny way of showing his love. The grandparents who raised me took me to church regularly. Dad would loan me his watch with a second hand so I could practice holding my breath during church. I think they quit going after I left home, so perhaps the whole show was for me. We took the kids to Unitarian church in Texas because you really needed to have a church identity there and then. Moved up here when they started middle school and high school. Have not been to church since. If I need a spiritual boost, I find it walking in the woods or hiking in the wilderness.
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Wren44, How long can you hold your breath?
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Interesting. I'm thinking one's upbringing plays a role too. My parents were both atheists BUT hard core conservatives. So, I became an atheist conservative too. Until graduate school, when I left home for good, got smart, and became an atheist liberal.
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I grew up attending a UCC church, which is pretty laid-back. My Mom was sort of religious but also thought going to church was something you were supposed to do - especially for a family new to town. I enjoyed it at the time, but outgrew it when I left home. It was just part of the social environment growing up in the 50s and 60s. My Dad got dragged to church, very reluctantly, on Christmas and Easter. 🎄 🐇. I think my paternal grandparents were atheists, or they just never thought about it one way or another. My aunt married a devout, Mass every day Catholic, but she never once went to church. That took guts in a small town. So I had a good example of seeing non-churchy people as normal and good.
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ananda8 - "Do atheists stop believing or do they realized that they never believed? Were bible stories always just Santa Claus stories to us?" Good question(s). Speaking for myself, I was loosely raised Catholic... we didn't attend church regularly, but I was required to attended weekly catechism classes through elementary & middle school. I received my first communion and confirmation, but only because it was expected, not because I actually believed in it. Once I reached high school & was allowed to choose on my own whether to continue the classes, I opted out. Even as a child, bible stories were just that to me - stories. Along the same lines as Aesop's fables & Grimm's fairy tales in that they functioned to teach a moral, but were in the end just stories.
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TabizMyAngel, Off topic, but your avatar is one really gorgeous cat.
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Ananda8, religion started as tales to explain what was unexplainable at the time. Then the people in power realized it was the easiest way to control the citizens, so those tales became mandatory beliefs.
I think it's possiblenthat before all these contradictory and anthromorphized religions, people were more reality based and if they felt worshipful toward anything, it was the sun, moon, and stars, which had a direct impact on their lives. Look how many expressions regarding just stars have come down to us: my stars, lucky star, wish upon a star, catch a falling star, etc. These might be the watered-down remnants of early beliefs.
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Thank you, Wren. That was my Maine Coon cat Tabitha (aka Tabz). She survived mammary cancer at age 12 and I lost her a few years ago at the age of 19 1/2. Thus my user name.
This is my new baby, Chloe. I adopted her a few months ago. She had been overlooked for 3 yrs at the rescue shelter because she is FIV+. She's an absolute sweetheart, much like Tabz; so playful, chatty & loving. (As you can tell, I love the big fluffies
)
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I am so happy I stumbled across this thread, all you women here are smart and interesting. I am going to read the Sue Monk Kidd book. I was raised without religion, became "born again" at 13. Married a man from a very conservative evangelical church. We raised 2 kids in the church. About 10 years ago, after 4 years of soul searching we realized the psychological trauma we all had experienced. 3 of us are now happy atheists/agnostics and my husband still struggles ( he was deeply brainwashed his whole life). I am so happy to be out of it and so much healthier. That is not to say that there were not good times and good things, sometimes I miss the community part but I know I am much better now. Even going through BC I have not felt the need to turn to religion, I feel stronger without it.
Thanks guys, look forward to reading more of your posts.
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I just realized the irony of choosing an "angel" username.
I actually consider myself an agnostic or secular humanist. But it's nice to feel we still hold a connection with loved ones who have passed and that their essence (soul/spirit for the religious) still surrounds us or brings us comfort.0 -
I'm interested in how atheists sometimes speak of spirituality or something of that nature that has no matter.0
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Happy New Year to all! May it be filled with peace and joy for all.
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Religion was and is a tool to enforce Social controls.
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Religion also supports those in power who support it. It's a dictatorial feedback loop. Notice how formerly atheistic Putin is now supporting the Russian Orthodox Church and how the formerly anti-government church is now supporting Putin. The same can be said about non-religious Trump now supporting certain religious groups (who regularly pray over him) and how certain religious groups are now deep into politics.
As Barry Goldwater said, “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the ... party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.”
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Measuring Christianity, or other religions, by imposters, charlatans or simply the poorest example of that faith would be like saying all atheists are like the worst of the nonbelievers. Sweeping statements about groups are dangerous generalizations. Laying all the ills of society at the door of religion is in itself a huge injustice.0
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JoE777- I enjoy your thought provoking comments. In my opinion, you sound more like a person of religion than an atheist. Just a comment not a judgment. I believe a person can have a desire to have a connection with a deceased loved one that isn't based in religious belief but a desire to maintain that bond. I have friends who refer to their children as angels and others who refer to their children as Devils. I don't believe it has anything to do with their religious beliefs. I don't care to make sweeping statements about any religious group or non religious groups. My belief is simple. Each day we have a responsibility to be the best person we can be on that given day. I will rarely meet that goal but I will keep trying. I attended church until I was thirteen years of age. Even as a child I did not believe in God. I will always respect another person's right to believe and hopefully they'll respect my right as a non believer.
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JoE777 - I sincerely try not to sow dissension, but I need to express my feelings about YOUR continuing posts to this thread.
Below in italics is your first post to this topic. I am disturbed that all further posts seem to be criticizing other people who post here or "calling them out". This is a place for people who choose not to believe in a Christian religion to vent their feelings and share their thoughts. I don't think most of us are negative or hateful. I also think most of us are tolerant of other's beliefs if they are not pushed at us. I do not believe most of the posts "demeaning or scoffing", but honest thoughts. I also believe some of us have been through horrific experiences at the hands of organized religion and should feel free to share. This should be a safe place for people to discuss & explore their COMMON beliefs. Not go back yet again and be told we are wrong. As someone suggested earlier, if you are uncomfortable with this thread, there are a ton of Christian threads on this site that might be a better fit for you.
I think questions/civil and open discussion benefits everyone. I expected some but not as much of the negative, demeaning and scoffing of those who have some form of Jude's/Christian belief system. I was encouraged by others who had a healthy toleration for those who do believe in a higher power outside of themselves and expressed the need for universal virtues that cross all belief systems and cultures.
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Minustwo- <thank you, you are right we need a safe place to talk. We have had enough of being shamed, we come here to a thread where we hope and trust we will not be shamed. I love the freedom and tolerance here, judgement and shame free. So please those who are wanting to evangelize dont do it here.
NO MORE SHAME!
Happy New Year Everyone!
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One of my favorite philosophers is Bertrand Russell. He is considered by many to be the greatest philosopher of the 20th Century. Here is one of his quotes.
"I believe that when I die I shall rot, and nothing of my ego will survive. I am not young and I love life. But I should scorn to shiver with terror at the thought of annihilation. Happiness is nonetheless true happiness because it must come to an end, nor do thought and love lose their value because they are not everlasting. Many a man has borne himself proudly on the scaffold; surely the same pride should teach us to think truly about man's place in the world. Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cosy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigour, and the great spaces have a splendour of their own.
BERTRAND RUSSELL, "What I Believe"
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Ananda...I find the quote from Barry Goldwater enlightening. I had not thought about the idea of compromise needed for politics and clearly not an option in religion. Maybe that is why I find religious leaders and their followers so frightening, there is no middle road. Everything done in the name of the religion has Gods imprimatur.
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Ananda- I am a huge fan of Bertrand Russell. "Why I Am Not A Christian" is one of my favorite books.
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I agree. Somehow over the years, I lost my copy. The governor of my state post tracts from the bible on his government Facebook page every Sunday. I don't object to him posting from his sacred text but I don't think he should use his official page to do so. ( I am extremely fond of separation of church and state.) So, every Sunday I post a response to his quote from the sacred texts of other religions, Islam, Sufi, Shinto, Taoism, Buddhism and to cover the atheists, I quote from Bertrand Russell. I get quite a few "likes" but none from the Governor.
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I am not a Buddhist, however as Pema Chodron says about Buddhism, which is a non-theistic religion, there is no god in the sky to hold your hand, one must work alone to be compassionate, kind, loving, etc. etc. All those human qualities, that one aspires too. Religion, and for some discussions I include Buddhism among religions, are all to their very core male dominated and power over is a central tenant.
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magiclight,
I think that as Buddhism as it is practiced in most parts of the world, it is just as patriarchal as any other religion. However it didn't start out that way. The Buddha fully ordained women as well as men and considered a woman called Bhadda foremost among his followers in the speed of her understanding. There are books written by women in the Pali Canon the core text of Buddhism.
Unfortunately the local population had trouble with women being ordained and the Buddha proclaimed certain rules that women had to show deference to males who were ordained and restricted the movements of women monks for their physical safety. It was important that women monks be accepted by the local population. Over the years through war and disease, the lineage of Bhikkhunis (female monks) died out and was only recently fully restored. There are no fully ordained Tibetan Bhikkhunis because the female lineage never made it to Tibet. There are fully ordained women in Korea, parts of China, Sri Lankha, Australia and the USA.
All that said, Buddhism has declined from a beautiful philosophy dedicated to the eradication of suffering into a religion that has as many flaws as any other. The oldest texts available are the Pali Canon and are available on line, however they are seldom read by native Buddhists and are being maintained online by American Buddhists. The are hard going to read but it's worth it.
The four great atheistic religious philosophies are Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism, and Confucianism. All started out as social/moral philosophies and became religions.
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Ananda, I am in no way a scholar on any religion or philosophical traditions. For me, I've turned to meditation as a way of dealing with my own sufferings, the most current of which has been the sequela from bilateral mastectomies. For me, being an atheist simply means not believing in a god to give me a hand, to pay homage to, to thank and or get angry with. Yet, I still struggle with my humanness and all the $#%^ and greatness that envelops my days. Just knowing/believing that I do not need a god to turn my life over to, but that I have the power to deal, to cope, to struggle, to engage and to be compassionate with my own frailties as well as those of others. So do I always or even usually succeed, no. But I keep trying. I do believe that once I opened myself to the light of insight I was on a path to being my most compassionate self. Obviously, I've wandered a bit in this conversation, but somehow to feel the need to explore how people who do not believe in a god, in a hell, in an eternal punishment / damnation or salvation can strive to live compassionate lives.
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