natural girls
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I thought I had to take selenium at the same time as the magnesium???? Oh, I'm so confused....
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Dear Terri,
Yes you can take the selenium also.
I think we need to refer back to Crunchy's thread on the supplements/vitamins. 0 -
#438: Free Weekly Newsletter by Ralph W. Moss, PhD.April 11, 2010
DO FRUITS AND VEGETABLES PREVENT CANCER?
The Journal of the National Cancer Institute (JNCI) has published a paper that denies a major role to fruit and vegetable consumption in the prevention of cancer. Since this study contradicts many other studies, as well as a long-term US government recommendation ("5 per day"), it has gotten a lot of press. At this writing, there have been 520 news articles, almost all of them negative. "Simply eating your five a day will not protect you against cancer," is how the Independent (U.K.) phrased it.
However, there are several questions that need to be addressed about this study. Here are some initial thoughts. I hope to present some further thoughts after my visit with Prof. Colin Campbell this summer.
First, according to this European Prospective Investigation Into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) study, if the subjects had increased their fruit and vegetable intake by just 150 grams per day, they would have reduced their risk of getting cancer by 2.6 percent (men) and 2.3 percent (women). Now, 150 grams is the weight of one apple. In the United States in 2009 there were 766,130 cases of cancer in men and 713,220 cases in women, for a total of 1,479,350. Thus, by the study's own figures, one small apple or a handful of grapes could prevent 19,919 US cases of cancer in men plus 16,404 cases in women, for a total of 36,323 people. That's about the capacity ofFenway Park in Boston, where the Red Sox hold forth. So instead of minimizing the results (as virtually every media outlet chose to do) the authors of these articles could have put a positive spin on the EPIC findings. After all, is it a small thing to keep more than 36,000 Americans from getting cancer at such a minimal cost?
Looked at in another way, the patients in the study were divided up into five groups or "quintiles."
Quintile 1 consumed 0 to 226 grams per day (i.e. less than eight ounces maximum)
Quintile 2 consumed between 227-338 grams per day.
Quintile 3 consumed between 339-462 grams per day.
Quintile 4 consumed between 463-646 grams per day.
Quintile 5 consumed more than 647 grams per day (i.e., a minimum of 23 ounces)
The difference in the Hazard Ratio (i.e., the risk) of cancer between Quintile 1 and Quintile 5 was 11 percent. Thus, if everyone in the US adopted a diet in which they ate over a pound (23 ounces) of fruits and vegetables per day, the cancer incidence would drop from its present-day 1,479,350 to 1,316,621, for a savings of 162,729 cases of cancer. This could fill Beaver Stadium in State College, PA, with 55,000 left over!
The European Prospective Investigation Into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) encourages us to think internationally. The World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated that there are at least 12 million new cancers diagnosed worldwide (Science Digest 2008). According to the EPIC study, conversion to a moderately high fruit-and-vegetable diet could ideally save 1.3 million people from getting cancer each year. This astonishing fact was hardly conveyed by the negative press reports on the EPIC study.
To be concluded, with references, next week
--Ralph W. Moss, Ph.D.
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Beth:
Just saw your post. My onc. wants me to start Arimidex next month without checking estradiol & estrone levels because he said it doesn't matter. I'm trying to get my estrogen down naturally by eating foods with aromatase inhibiting properties and then will insist on getting hormone levels checked to see if they are low enough to avoid Arimidex. I am postmenopausal, very low BMI (18.1), eating healthy diet, avoid alcochol, exercise reguarly, taking antioxidants, etc. so I am hoping my levels are low. What have you been doing to keep estrogen levels low? Very interested to hear about the interpretation of your test results.
Thanks, Helena
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Helena-
I take a lot of supplements, but As far as supplements specifically adressing estrogen issues - I take DIM( I was taking both I3C and DIM - right now, just DIM), 2 T of flaxseed every day in my smoothee; melatonin; quercitin w/bromelain; Broccoli sprout extract; Calcium D-glucarate. I also take B6, B12, folic acid and TMG to help with methylation.
The consensus on my Estrogen Profile Urine test results was that to keep doing what I am doing.
The only suggestion offered by my compound pharamcist was to use DIM only, not I3C, over concern with some of the metabolites.
Ironically, I actually wish my estradiol (<.25) was a bit higher and so does my functional med doc - but my estrone, estriol, 4OH are really good - so for now I won't make changes.
The estrogen quotient measures the relationship of Estriol to Estradiol and Estrone - ANy reference I have found says that you want it to be over 1.0 and from what I have read in perfect balance in nature - one would have a 4.0 - (80% estriol / 10% estrone +10% estradiol) - mine is 8.0, because of my low estradiol.
My test results showed that - I am methylating (which is a really good thing) a very high percentage of the estradiol that I do have to 2-methoxyestradiol which is the really good anti-cancer metabolite.
My 2OH:16OH ratio actually dropped from before, but it was because my levels had dropped by a factor of 10 since starting my protocol - so both the pharmacist and my functional med doc said not to get hung up on the ratio, since my levels are so low. I have also recently been read a couple of mnetions that the 2OH:16OH ratio may not be as meaningful for menopausal women - hard to know.
I am not sure if this answers what you wanted to know.
Good Luck,
Beth
Edited to Add -
Oops - can't believe I forgot to add: I do vaginal estriol twice a week; I also do the IOdine protocol and Iodine can improve estriol levels. All of this is so related - I am sure I am forgetting something else which may also impact.
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Hi Terri,
I will be interested to learn if your hospital does the saliva test. I asked my onc. at the Royal Vic. if they do hormone level testing. She said no. I phoned Ville Marie Breast Clinic and they don't do it either. Where is the other place you mentioned; the one we would have to pay for? I have been taking arimidex for several months and was taken off it because I became "couch-ridden," I couldn't move. I am on a drug holiday for a month and will be prescribed another pill, but I don't have high hopes for that one either, I'm afraid. I am due to see the onc in May and would like to present her with my hormone level result.
Glenis
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Dear Glenis,
Here is a link for saliva testing. This lab is Dr. David Zava's. He is the co-author of the book "What Your Doctor May (not) Tell You About Breast Cancer". The author is Dr. John Lee. My daughter sent her test kit off on April 2, and she expects to have the results this week sometime.
http://www.hormoneprofiles.com/saliva.htm
edited to add this testing kit link
http://www.johnleemd.com/store/prod_stest.html
edited once again to add this link
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Thanks Nan.0
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Glenis: The Dr that I saw is on Sherbrooke St. His name is Dr Adam Gavsie and he does the saliva testing. I think I quoted the price as being $250. He's basically a medical Dr who is very open to alternative thinking. I liked him very much and he's very easy to talk to. He is not covered by Medicare though, so your initial consult will run you $250. Every other visit after that the price varies according to the time spent but an average visit is about $70-150. He also does email/ telephone consults and those are $20 each. If you can, you should look him up.
I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with Arimidex. I hope they can find an alternative that you can take with less side effects. I was on Tamoxifen and had a very bad reaction to it and stopped taking it. I'm going the way of supplements instead and hoping I'm doing the right thing...you always question your decisions no matter which way you go. You just have to have faith that you've done your homework and that you're doing what's best for you.
Terri
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Thanks Terri.0
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Oh ladies...now it is walnuts? From Life Extension. But Frito Lay's junk food is good for you?
http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/FDA-Says-Walnuts-Are-Illegal-Drugs.htm
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That's incredible, Nan. Thanks for sharing!
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Good grief! Nothing better to do with their time? No wonder we have drugs on the market that are killing people.
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I don't know where I have been looking, but I just found out that Vivre is gone. So sad, even though I totally understand her decision. Vivre's absence is really felt, and the wealth of contribution that she made to this forum will be sorely missed.0
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Just a quick drop by to say thanks to all you wonderful ladies here on this thread, especially Deanna, we even went through chemo together back on the Aug 08 thread! I have an appointment with a functional medicine doctor. My first appointment is next month so I am in the process of gathering all my past test data, history, etc. Any advice on what else I should be prepared for during this first visit? It's quite the distance for me to go to her...I guess that's why I have put this off for so long! (Today is my 2 year Cancerversary!) I am so looking forward to feeling better without having to take so many perscription drugs!!! Thanks for all encouragement & advice!!!
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Hello. As I was diagnosed in Feb.. I just finally read some of the books I found through these sites.. and am following the advice of the Anti Cancer book. This thread is great as it is very much the way I am starting to live. I have an appointment at the Block Institute next Thursday so I am very anxious to see what they come up with for me. I've asked my current Oncologist about a few specific items like Milk Thistle and CoQ10 and was told to stay away during my treatment.. So all I get to take is a regular multi-vitamin and eat all the greens and garlic and tumeric I can squeeze into a day!!
Thanks to everyone here for all their knowledge.. Great for someone like me who is just starting all this.. and doesn't have much time to risk NOT doing this as I was lucky enough to have a baby, and then go directly to Stage IV... I will be following this closely.. started reading at the beginning.. but there is no way to get through it all..
Marina
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Hood-
Congrats on finding a functional med doc. I think functional medicine is the answer to wellness.
Typically functional med docs order lots of tests - the one test I would insist upon is the Estrogenomic Profile from Genova Diagnostics. It identifies so much about possible genetic strengths/weaknesses which could have contributed to getting breast cancer and the appropriate interventions.
I am sure they will also do some type of 24 Hr urine hormonal testing - at the very least I would ask that it include the EQ (Estrogen Quotient), the 2OH:16OH ratio and 4OH levels. The Estrogen Profile from Meridian Valley is one - there are also others - I think Genova offers a COmplete Hormone Profile as well. Most of the labs also have an add-on for bone resoprtion test for a nominal fee.
Good Luck!
Beth
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Hood-- the first thing I would do is interview her about what she knows. Sometimes practitioners join organizations calling themselves Functional medicine specialists or integrative oncologists and really have limited information. They may stress non biological approaches like meditating which you could have figured out yourself.
You need to subtley quiz her to see if she has reliable information to guide you with. Bring a list.
Does she give the right answers on the value of progesterone, melatonin, C0Q10, iodine, curcumin, selenium, vitamin D, etc. You can tactfully ask, "what do you know about...?"
Like Beth said, does she know about the hormone tests, does she know about the 24 hour iodine loading test, will she know your vitamin D levels should test in the 80 area?
If she gives the right answer to these questions you can have confidence. If she doesn't, unfortunately you need to find somebody else. Sometimes you need to kiss several frogs before finding your prince
I speak from experience.0 -
Denise (Hood) ~ Congratulations on your two-year cancerversary!!! Can't believe you got the news on tax day! Hope you'll go out and do something special for yourself -- treat yourself to something frivolous or outrageous or just something you wouldn't ordinarily do, to celebrate!
And I hope you'll share with us what you learn from the functional medicine doctor you're seeing. Was she recommended to you, or how did you find her? I guess the most pressing question I would have for anyone I see from here on out is, what experience do they have with breast cancer and breast cancer patients? Is that even an area in which they have a specific interest? While no one doctor may be able to give us all the pieces of the puzzle, I at least want my docs to have a strong interest in breast cancer and be very up on the latest prevention information. Deanna
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Just came across this and thought I'd share -- more confirmation that we need to do everything in our power to educate and take care of ourselves, and not rely on future medical breakthroughs that may be a long time coming...
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Deanna, I don't think the experience with breast cancer counts as much as what they actually know. There are a lot of practitioners out there experienced with breast cancer but who are just EXPERIENCED AT GIVING OUT THE WRONG INFORMATION. So we have to try to find out if any prospective doctors are truly informed or not.
"Not knowing when the dawn is coming, I open every door." -- Emily Dickinson
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Lucy, you make a good point, although I was coming from the perspective that, at this stage, those of us on this thread already know a lot about our breast cancer, tx & lifestyle choices, and I'm assuming that we are not taking a doctor's experience with breast cancer patients as the only prerequisite for choosing them (as I regretfully did with my first surgeon).
I also think your suggestion for getting the same information I was basically after, by asking about their interests, is an excellent one. But I also know that I personally want advice from practitioners who have first hand experience with a myriad of breast cancer patients, not just from seminars. You may not, and that's fine. But if the main focus of a practice is anti-aging, for example, I personally feel that they do not have enough practical experience to go with their seminar knowledge, nor do they probably have the interest in bc that assures me they are really on top of all the latest research. But, yes, experience alone is never assurance of a good doctor, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Deanna
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This is a good discussion as it keeps bringing up mistakes that I made along the way.
I think I would also be honest about how you like to work with your health practioners. EVen if they are highly regarded and brilliant practioners, I think they will appreciate your honesty. My functional med doc even asked me at my first appt if I was the "bottom line" or "want to understand it" kind of person. I really appreciated that.
I tell all practioners that I made a commitment to myself when I rec'd my dx that I would "own" every aspect of my treatment. I also tell them that I will probably go home and reserach any new treatments or supplements which they suggest before I add it to my protocol and that I hope they will not be offended.
Not every practioner likes a patient who is active in their own treatment. I went to one nutritionist who was incredibly upset that I would question any of her suggestions.
I am so excited for you!
Beth
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Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. I have started a new notebook in preparation for my appontment but it is not until May 18th!
I found my Functional Medicine doctor through the FM website. Unfortuantely, I don't know any of her patients, but am willing to give her a try. She is also a GYN and her FM practice deals only with women too. I am so tired of being treated by doctors by them prescribing a pill for whatever ailes me and then having so many side effects ie Effexor!!! I am a chemist but I don't work in the health field. I have read the Anti-Cancer book and it does make sense to me. Why are western doctors educated in this??? Oh well, don't get me started! I am so looking forward to a fresh approach! Thanks everyone!0 -
Deanna- thanks for sharing the BusinessWeek article! Here's more detailed information from the actual study: IOM study
I was curious to see exactly what they meant by "waste and inefficiency," and whether they had specific recommendations for how to remedy the problem. They seem so obvious, but hopefully the powers that be will start acting on them! I especially agree that insurance should have some obligation (legal? moral?HA) and/or incentive to cover procedures that are part of a sanctioned clinical trial, but I guess there's a lot of debate on which trials are/should be sanctioned, too.
Anyway, thanks for sharing!
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Marina, welcome to the Natural Girls thread.
It sounds like you've had a rough time, having a baby then stage IV all in one go.
I believe someone has a list or a link about what supps etc you can take while having chemo. Can anyone help Marina please as I don't have much information?
Here's a National Cancer Institute report of CoQ10 taken with chemo, in point 6. You can always print it out and show your onco if you don't like to take anything without their approval. But the bottom line is it's your life, not anyone else's.
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/coenzymeQ10/Patient/page2
The Anti-Cancer book is fantastic and the ladies here are really knowledgeable and helpful too.
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Hi SheilaEchidna,
I read many of your informative comments about diet and will incorporate them into my own diet. Thanks very much.
PS. I lived in Australia between ages 9 and 23, so I can appreciate your name!
Glenis
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WOW THAT TRICKY ESTROGEN
I was researching MYOMIN as some of you gals are using it or something similiar and while reading I saw this interesting comment:
Add fibre to your diet. If constipated, estrogen is reabsorbed into the body.
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Sheila.....Here is what my naturopath had me taking before and during chemo with the approval of my oncologist. Probiotic, L-Glutamine (inhibits gastric problems) , Vit D3, Cod Liver Oil, Multi Vitamin, Astragalus (built up white blood cells). I did not experience any upper GI problems and never needed to have the Neulasta shot because my blood counts were good. They were all pretty high doses to boost my immune before chemo and during. I also received weekly acupuncture which helped me to sail through the taxotere and cytoxan. Good luck! Patti
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Just wondering what B vitamins I should be adding to my cocktail of supplements. Can anyone help with dosages. As you may already know, I need to start off slow. I'm being cautious ever since I had that swelling in my neck. I've also started slow on the iodine...25mg's.
Terri
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