natural girls
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Beth, what is NAC?
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Luna-
NAC is N-acetyl - cysteine. It is a precursor to help increase my glutiathione levels, because I have the genetic SNPS where I do not make glutiathione properly.
Beth
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Beth, have you ever heard of lypo-spheric GSH glutathione by Livon Labs? It's supposed to be almost as good as the intravenous glutathione. It comes in little foil packets and has to be kept in the fridge. I found it gave me a kind of caffiene-like buzz so the doc said take only 1/4 of a packet.
However, recently my doctor told be there is another brand out which may be better. I'll try to get the name.
Thanks for your very knowledgeable contributions to this group. I always look for your signon.
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Thanks, Jane-
I would love that info about the new brand. I need to re-visit that research. At the time I found out about the glutathione issue, I also found out I had a fungal infection, which precluded me from being able to take any glutathione that had to pass through the gut.
I did complete a series of the IV injections of glutathione. Not cheap. I did get a buzz right after them, too.
I have finally started the NAC and taking it slow. SO far, so good.
Recently I read about glutathione suppositories - do you know anything about those?
Beth
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Beth and JaneLDgs...How do I know if I need NAC?
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Luna-
There may be a test where you can measure it directly, but I found out as the result of two tests that my functional medicine doctor did. The first was the Estrogenomic Profile Test from Genova Diagnostics. It involves a blood draw. This is the test that has been most crucial to finding underlying issues with my breast cancer. This is the test that measures the SNPS - genetic variations - on such things as inflammation, detoxification,bone formation, Vitamin D receptors, methylation, coagulation, etc. This was the test that showed that I am absent the GSTM1 gene - the glutathione gene that is responsible for Phase 2 detoxification of xenobiotics, carcinogens and products of oxidative stress. This is not a good thing, obviously. The suggestions were to eat cruiciferous veggies and allium foods(garlic, etc); extra antioxidants in food and supplements, ensure availability of glutathione precursors and co-factors(incuding NAC, Mg, B6); limit glutathione depletion with a-lipoic acid, milk thistle or taurine and to minimize my exposure to xenobiotics and toxic metals.
The second test was from Metametrix Labs. It is called the Organix ACids test. It is a very COmprehensive profile that includes evaluation of Fatty acid metabolism, carbohydrate metabolism, B-complex vitamin markers, methylation cofactor markers, neurotransmitter metabolism markers, energy production markers, oxidative damage and antioxidant markers, detoxification indicators, bacterial and fungal assessments. This test showed a lot - but as far as needing NAC/glutathione - it verified that I was not detoxifying well. I showed high levels of xenobiotics and the intervention options suggested were NAC, Glutathione and Hepatic support - like Milk Thistle.
This is where working with a functional medicine doctor was invaluable. HE could look at the total picture and see that although the report was saying I should add ALA and NAC , it also showed that I had fungal issues. My doc explained that I had to clear up the fungal issue before I could start taking the ALA and NAC and that was why I did the glutathione IV's, since it bypasses the gut, until my fungal issue was addressed. If I had just had a blood test(assuming one exists) that measured glutathione levels alone - I most likely would have started the NAC/ALA and not have known it was complicating my overall health.
I know I am getting way off track - but ANother interesting issue that came up with the Organix ACid test was that I needed LOTS more B12 - even though a blood test about 6 months beforehand had showed my B12 was in normal range. The reason I needed more is that I don't methylate well and so I need lots of extra methylation co-factors, including B12. If I had just gone by my blood test, I would not have known that.
BTW - I did finally get partial reimbursement from my insurance company on these tests.
Sorry, but This turned out to be a very long answer to your simple question.
Beth
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hlth4513
I am waiting for the results of a urine test I sent into Genova Diagnostics that is to measure how my estrogen is being metabolized. I'm hoping now that I read your post that they are going to come back with more information. I'll have to ask about the Estrogenomic profile test and see if it's similar to the one you had done. I didn't do blood however. They also sent away with the saliva test for the hormone levels.
I meet with this dr on the 30th. Can't wait to see what he has to say. It takes so long for the tests to come back.... 3 wks. Everything is postponed until then and I really don't like the waiting! My onc wants me on arimidex and so far I've not taken it waiting for these results. Also had to reschedule her app't until after I see this dr.
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samsue-
The Estrogen Metabolism test is very valuable in seeing your hormone levels and how you metabolize estrogen, but it is a completely different test from the Estrogenomic Profile. The waiting is hard, but I congratulate you on empowering yourself to make an informed decision and for finding a doctor knowledgeable about the test this close to your diagnosis.
The Estrogen Metabolism will measure your current levels of hormones and metabolites. The Estrogenomic is a genetic test that shows your chromosomal info for certain genes - which you can then act on to compensate for any genetic variations. The Metabolism test is something that can be repeated to monitor results of your treatment plan, whereas the Estrogenomic Profile is a one-time test to give you genetic information. They have sample reports at the website: http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/files/profile_assets/sample_report/EstroGenomic_Report.pdf
My latest test results from the Estrogen Metabolism test showed that my EQ was 8.0 and my estradiol was below .25% and was proof that my natural protocol is working and it gave me the confidence to once again refuse the Armidex/Tamoxifen. Even my onc said it was "amazing".
Good Luck to you!
Beth
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Girls, just an update; as I had mentioned, I had to have another biopsy last week after my post-reexcision follow-up mammo showed some remaining microcalcifications. Got the biopsy results back and sure enough, it was DCIS. Ugh. Was hoping I was in the clear since my reexcision margins were clear, but oh well.
Of course, my doctor says I must now have a mastectomy... I think I'm not going to do it yet and try for a baby first (my 40th birthday is getting closer and closer). The good news is that those few remaining microcalcifications hadn't changed at all (I think that's good news, anyway), which tells me that all this diet/lifestyle stuff is at least keeping it in check. And, it was still all just grade 2 at worst.
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Yikes, Crunch! Crapola! I would go for it. Attack DH now.
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Hlth4513
Thanks for the information. I don't want to do the arimidex and would rather try something that doesn't have the harsh SE's. I have to use my hands in my work so it would be really difficult with the pain the onc said might happen. Also I have heart and thyroid issues plus my last test showed osteopenia.
She just says I'm scared of the "pill".... Probably.... perhaps .... I need to find another way to reduce the estrogen if possible.
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LOL Barbara! I needed a laugh after the day I've had today! (and I think I willl!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL)
samsue, have you read the hormone balance/anti-estrogen threads? There's some great info in them about lowering estrogen naturally... also, last night I was listening to a fertility podcast that had to do with insulin resistance and how estrogen imbalance often goes hand in hand with it. The doctor was talking about lifestyle changes that can reduce insulin resistance (and in turn, estrogen), and it's all the stuff we've been talking about -- better sleep (e.g. sleeping in complete darkness!), eating whole foods, etc., but he also emphasized getting enough FIBER. That rang a bell with me re: one of the estrogen-balance threads about how eating a lot of beans helps reduce estrogen... that makes sense since they're obviously so high in fiber.
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samsue, I changed my diet and I supplement with DIM and grape seed extract among others and I recently did an estrogen level test and it was undetectable. You can manage your estrogen but you should seek guidance.
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Chruncy
Thanks, I'll take a look on that thread. I've changed my eating habits to lots more veggies. I didn't eat red meat, pork and very little chicken so I'm on the right path with that but, still need to add more fiber. I'm using a protein drink made with sprouted grains for my morning drink. I use rice milk and some type of fruit. I try to cut out the soy but find it in almost everything. Last week for lunch I had mixed salad greens every day for lunch! Yes they were organic. I stopped at the store on my way home and bought more organic veggies..... haven't done the bean thing yet. Read in Dr. Lees book to soak them or use beano to help with the.... you know what!
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samsue, that's great on the veggies/greens/sprouted grains etc., but definitely do try to cut down on non-fermented soy. I basically cut out ALL packaged goods... if you do that and just eat whole foods, it's easy.
Barbara, that is a good point that it's important to be monitored and if it's not working, be more aggressive. What other lifestyle changes did you make such as with sleep etc.?
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Julia-so sorry to hear your news. My heart goes out to you. Have you ever done a detox? I was reading how mothers often have problems with first pregnancies because their fetuses tend to absorb all the toxins. This could explain for me, why my sons were born jaundiced. I never got a straight answer from my doctors about it. But I know it was related to their ADD and to my thyroid and bc issues. If only I had known about iodine back then! I have detoxed with the iodine, a FIR sauna and a herbal intestinal cleanse. You should really try to do this before you try to conceive again. My prayers are with you.
I just read the best book called the Anti Estrogen Diet. It was full of great details, including the whole soy controversy. I lent it to a friend, so I can't remember the author, but I will be posting a book report soon on my website, with all the other great books I have read. I hope those of you who are members will put in your two cents if you read the same books, which I know many of you have. We are hoping to get our book discussion going in the next week or so. Now that we got rid of all the google ads, we can change some things. Yes, I know some of you feel the site is overwhelming, but it sure makes it easier to find things by category, rather than read 200 pages of the natural girls thread. You just need to dig around a little and get use to it, like any other website.
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Samsue,
If you are going to start using dried beans, you should soak them first and then throw out the water they soaked in and cook them in fresh. Any dirt or pesticides that cling to the outer skin of the beans will be thrown away with the soaking water. Changing the water will also help prevent gas.
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I am having blood drawn tomorrow and will meet with my hormone doc in 3 weeks to see how I am doing.
Thank you all for all the great info and answers. I will ask him questions about further testing based on all you have said. I will also pass it on to him in case he is not learned on the blood tests you described since he seems truly interested in expanding his knowledge. He already had me send him links about Iodine as he thought he might not be doing enough for women with that.
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re: lifestyle changes:
1. minimum 7 hours sleep per night AT THE SAME TIME every night
2. stopped smoking - didn't smoke much but really liked it, sigh
3. cut WAY back on alcohol - have maybe 2-3 glasses red wine per week, another sigh - love beer
4. 1 tbsp organic no hormone 1/2&1/2 in 1 c organic coffee daily, 4-5 servings fruit and veggies/day (mostly raw, all organic), organic fruit/veggie juice daily, millet, quinoa, long grain wild rice for carbs, wild caught fish 1-2 /week, no hormone beef 1/week, no hormone chicken 1/week, dark chocolate 2 oz 1/mo
5. increased walking from 1-2 miles/day 5-6 days/week, 20-30 minutes Wii Fit stretching/yoga follwed by Wii Fit strength exercises 5-6 days/week (UGH, hate this but do it anyway)
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Vivre, I've done an intestinal cleanse in the past and now am going to do at least a liver cleanse... I recently bought that Anti-Estrogen Diet book on the recommendation of someone here, and so far it looks GREAT!! I wish I'd known about that book years ago!
Barbara, all of those are fantastic changes. I'm surprised it hasn't made more of a difference. How long had you been doing all that before having your estrogen re-tested? That book Vivre mentioned, The Anti-Estrogen Diet, may have some other ideas.
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Took a look at the Anti-Estrogen Diet Book on line and have to say (honestly) I was disappointed. The link to the web page was selling dairy (whey) based supplements.
...Sorry to keep at it but common sense tells me that if I can take a pill (or a supplement) to change my molecular structure than what about the food...
Let me know what you think about this study by Harvard University on Modern Milk having high levels of estrogen because the dairy cows are kept artificially pregnant for 9 months (the rGBH hormone debate aside) http://harvardmagazine.com/2007/05/modern-milk.html
My "Anti Estrogen" diet is no dairy EVER for me for the past 9 years (except organic eggs) and limited amounts of organic meat only if it's growth hormone free because my tumor was hormone receptive.
Best health always,
p.s. Dear CrunchyPoodleMama, so sorry to hear the news. The best advice my team of doctors gave me was to "get a second if not a third opinion"...
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Ladies, I HAVE noticed a HUGE difference since changing all those things. Been doing this since early May and had a 24 hour urine estrogen and metabolites test and my estrogen is undetectable so I think it is working pretty well.
I agree with Supermom Crunch. Do get other opinions.
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OHHH, Barbara, I misunderstood - I misread your earlier post as there was no detectable CHANGE in your estrogen. I thought, "That's SO weird, given all her diet/lifestyle changes." Now that I realize what you actually said, that makes perfect sense!
SuperMom, I will definitely get a second opinion, probably from Dr. Michael Lagios.
I'm confused about what had a link to a whey supplement -- the book The Anti-Estrogenic Diet by Ori Hofmeler is all about FOODS (and lifestyle changes), not supplements. I found one small blurb on p. 58 that lists some helpful supplements while doing a liver cleanse, such as milk thistle and dandelion, but I consider those foods (I have both of those as teas). The book isn't pushing any product, just gives well-researched information about various foods.
Is that the same "modern milk" study you had shared before? I think we're all in agreement here that factory-farm milk (where the cows are kept artificially pregnant most of the year) is NOT good. As I said on the dairy thread, after my diagnosis and all the research I did, I have started consuming dairy again, but GRASS-FED and not from artificially pregnant cows... and very small amounts. There are few better sources for cancer-fighting CLA's.
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Crunchy-
I'm so sorry to hear of your latest diagnosis. Good Luck to you!
I appreciate your continued mention of the importance of CLA. It made me go back and re-evaluate my diet. I had actually gone back to eating some animal products, after being a raw vegetarian for several years, but was I not really happy about it. My allergies to dairy and eggs and safflower(usually the CLA source in supplements) have always frustrated me - but I have started using grass-fed organic ghee to get my CLA. It helps me reconcile my desire to not eat animal flesh, but still get the benefits of the CLA.
Thanks!
Beth
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I'm under the impression that even "organic" milk products are milked from cows that are kept "artificially" pregnant for 9 months out of the year? And, that's why there are high levels of the estrogen and it's not just the factory farmed dairy cows. Would be very interested to know a definitive answer.
At the bottom of the webpage for the book: http://www.antiestrogenicdiet.com/ all the supplements are listed.
Yes, it's the same article. Would like to hear your thoughts.
Good luck! You are working hard on your health...
Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food. - Hippocrates
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SuperMom... again, you're right, "organic" milk in a grocery store cannot be trusted. That's why I don't consume that. I only consume dairy from grass-fed cows from a local farm where I KNOW THE FARMER, and the cows get pregnant the old-fashioned way and are NOT kept pregnant most of the year. Organic milk is NOT the same as grass-fed.
Regular milk = horrible... Organic milk = horrible... Grass-fed milk where the cows are not kept pregnant all the time = fantastic (for fighting cancer and many other things).
Thanks for the link you mentioned - it looks like those are ads to another company's website. I don't know why she would let that company advertise on her site... those supplements aren't mentioned in her book whatsoever, and her book is all about natural ways (e.g. foods) to lower estrogen.
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I also heard from a cancer nutrionist and md last week that organic milk is not the way to go. Recommendation was to cut out dairy milk all together. Yes, if you know the farmer and know exactly how he produces milk it may be another story. I have a bit of brown rice milk and almond milk instead and I am totally fine with it. I personally find it easier to cut certain things out than to be uncertain about whether it is ok or not, and how much etc.
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I also read the anti-estrogenic book and found it very informative. Looking a labels all the time. I found that it was much easier to just buy fresh. I think I mentioned before that I was wanting some tuna for my salad and found that it had soy in it. Tried to call the 800 number on the label to find out what? No answer! UGH.
I also found in one of the rice milks that I use they've added soy. Can't seem to get away from that stuff. At work today one of the girls had a jar of peanut butter, thought I'd look at that label... yes, it had it too. So it's easier for me to just eat fresh organic whenever possible.
My new dr that's doing the estrogen testing has me on DIM and I3C. Progressive isn't he?
Thanks for all the help. I'm a real slug when it comes to exercise lately. The acupuncturist that's working with me on my liver wants me to be "gentle" and only do yoga or stretching. Can't say that I have a lot of energy back yet so hoping I can start with the gym in Sept. I do like the idea of a Wi.
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Hi Ladies,
I want to start using organic skin facial prodects. Wondering if any of you have any favorites that you would like to share with me. thanks in advance!
V
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I use HoneyGirl Organics - cleanser and moisturizer, they are fabulous, you can literally eat them......if you are so inclined!
L
ox
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