natural girls
Comments
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This is my personal experience with Arimidex. I bit the bullet and decided to try it. I was fearful that in myown way I was outsmarting myself by not taking what every medical professional told me I needed. One pill, that's all I took. I decided to try it at night, before I went to sleep. I was calm and actually thinking it would be a good thing. I took a bath and went to bed. I fell asleep shortly after. Then I woke up. And went back to sleep. This repeated itself through the night interspersed with bouts of explosive diarreah. I woke up (for tenth time) and got ready for work feeling like I was on the worst kind of speed. I skipped my vitamins as I did not want any extra enhancements adding to the mix. One pill, the night before. I got to work and was hyper and of course tired, from the lack of sleep. But felt like, ok, if this is the worst, I will just take the pill very very early in the morning and then I will be able to sleep. Maybe the diarreah was stress or something. That was fine until about 1pm in the afternoon, I was standing outside talking to a friend and my left arm went numb. Like I had just woken up after sleeping on it. I shook it and commented how odd it felt. Then she looked at me and said how glassy my eyes were and I said not much sleep last night. I sat down and then my left leg was tingling. I said this is ridiculous, it must be from me being scared or something, one pill could not do this that quick. So I got up and laughed it off and went back upstairs to the office. By the time i got back my eyes were watering and I felt my head was pounding,my eyes were burning and red.I shook it off, again, saying this is CRAZY, I must be getting sick. My brain was completely spinning. My sister came over and asked me what was wrong as my eyes were so red and glassy and I was holding my arm funny. I said I did not know. I hadnever felt this bad in my life...inclduing when I go the BMX...at least when I woke up from that I anticipated something would hurt. But this was weird. Like nothing before. I called my husband and said I didn't know if I could drive home so to hang in case I needed to call him. I made it home crying the whole way. By the time I got home I was convinced it was not the pill but that I had undergone a small stroke. My neck was was sore and the left side was weirding out. My husband got home and sat withme and got me to take a hot bath. Once I sat back in the tub I got really really MAD! I said I must be nuts honey...because one pill could not do this to a person. He corrected me and said I knew better than that. He reminded me of the two times in his life when he had violent side effects following the first or second dose of two different drugs. He reminded me of the drugs back in high school that people (him and his friends,not goody two shoes me:) took and how one little pill did an awful lot. I started crying harder. I sadi what if it doesn't get better? My arm and leg are numb and I have shooting spur type feelings in my foot. My neck hurts and I my stomach is rumbling loud enough for him to hear it. I turned on the jets in the tub to massage my hold body ...and kept crying. I was too scared to take a tylonel or an ativan because I did not know if it would make &it& worse...he told me to get mad so I would not be scared...(he knows me well) so i did. I went on to say not only would I not ever take a FRIGGIN AI of any kind again but I damn well would quit smoking without adding more drugs to the mix. Somehow I had slowly started to buy intoit all...the big name hospitals and the big name docs telling me I NEEDED THIS STUFF. Now don't get me wrong...i am not a fool and if I had a more agressive cancer I damn well would do what was neccessary. BUT...this is why I had a BMX, this is why I started a regimen to suppress the estrogen naturally based on clinical trials...this is why I changed my diet, this is why I decided to stop smoking...to battle the BC so I could live a good life. So I got good and mad. Mad atmyself for not trusting my gut which has led me right since all of this began. I was mad that there untold women suffering horrific side effects so they can make some magical 5year mark while their life is compromised in so many other ways along the path to get there. NO. My sister called as she was worried about me and said she had never been so scared in her life when she saw me that afternoon. And let me tell you my sister is no alarmist and in fact would be the first one to tell me it was inmy head. She said you know, maybe that is why so manypeople can't believe you have gone through all of this...as you are healing so well and have generally been getting stronger and healthier...maybe if you had taken the AIs right after surgery like they wanted you to you might have been sicker like everyone seemed to expect you to be. And maybe you would not haveknown the difference thinking it was all part of the process of breast cancer. That you were supposed to feel like &hit. And I thought about that and I have to agree. Don'tget me wrong, I have had some rough days since the BMX but not anything like what happened to me yesterday. But if I hadnot had eight weeks of healing before trying this poison how would I know how to feel? I had never had breast cancer andsurgery before...all of the symptoms would have gotten swept up in the general Bc aftermath....Let me say this, Ivcould never have dreamed it would hit me that hardvthat fast. I stayed home from work today and rested. As the day has gone on most feeling returned with just my upper arm and elbow and knee and heel tingling/feeling weird still. My stomach is racked. A little gross aside...I went to the restroom and after wiping...there was blood. Now I know where I wiped and have neverhad blood from my rear before in 54 years. I start screaming a bit ago for my husband and we looked it up...yep, one of the rare side effects...I missed that one in my reading..I am hoping that I had a hemi I did not know abotu suddenly decide to bleed (dont they do that? soemtimes) from all the diarreah....If it continues until tomorrow I will go to doc. But i am sick of docs rightnow. Pissed at docs right now. So here it is almost 24 hours following one dose of arimidex. My story, my experience. No wonder so many write of their pains, I will never glossover those plaintive writings again when reading them. I truly believe none of them are exagerrating and they must feel like theya re going nuts to have that stuff start popping off in their bodies. My case might be unique and the effects extreme. I can only liken it to a poison that my body is trying to get rid of. The bitch is the drug can linger in your system for 50-60 hours. I will stick with that and not pay attention to someone who called astrazeneca and was told each dose can actually remain active within for 10-11 days. Nope. In this case I will use mind over matter to get over this mini catastrophe. And be grateful that now I do not have to play the what if game. I don't care what brand or formulation, I will not put it in my body again. It scared me and I hope I don't have lingering anything from it. God bless all of you who can handle it. I cannot. Back to my DIM, Grapeseed extract, COQ2, D3, Multi with whatever else may make sense along the way...thanks
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Wow, Annette that is some story. Mine was not so bad, but a bit traumatic too. I lasted four days. Every time I took the pill, I would have this visceral urge to scream. I could not believe how flippin out angry I felt about one little pill. I have never felt such rage. After 4 days of this and a feeling of total fuzzy brain, and loss of control. I cashed it in. That was the end of the pills for me. I was going through rads and went to the nurse, who just kept telling me that I should just give it more time and reminding me that this would cut my recurrance probability by 50% (which I later learned was actually only 5% because my calculated risk was only 10% with my prognosis.) So I decided to then start getting serious about nutrition. I went to Sam's to check out books and saw "The Wisdom of Menopause". I decided not to open it because I was "past all that", but my hand kept going back to it. Finally, I felt this was a message and I looked up and said, "OKay God, I will open the damn book". Well it opened to the chapter where she is talking about the drugs used for breast cancer prevention! And her advice was that women need to listen to their inner voices and do what they feel is best.
I took that as a sign. I went wholistic and have not looked back, and I have never felt this great, nor do I have any fear of the return of breast cancer.
No matter what we choose. It has to feel right.
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Wow is right!
I wish I had been as smart as you two - Annette and Vivre - and only taken Tamoxifen a few days.
I just received results from my naturopath oncologist. He said with the levels of my adrenaline and neurotransmitters, sleep is not possible. Caused by taking T for 3 months. I'm taking supplements to bring my levels down but if it doesn't work I may have to try bio-identical hormone replacement.
The only other drugs I had taken before were for a couple ear infections. I wasn't thrilled about taking any drug but thought I had to...must follow what the doctor orders. Never again! I'll do more research before putting a pill in my mouth.
Sue
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this is getting reported to FDA an "adverse event"...it just scares me how bad some must feel taking it right after surgey they would never know if it is the drug or just the normal bad feelings you might get following such trauma to your body....then by the time you realized it was the damn AI or whatever, the damage mght already be permenant.....staying home today to just keep it clearing and go for a walk later to shake it out of my leg and arm and heel...thanks for being here-next time i am telling the doc if it is so harmless..you take one and let me know...
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Annette,
My heart goes out to you. I hope the next 20 hours passes quickly to get that drug out of your system. One never knows how you'll react to the most non-descript drug, much less a powerful anti-estrogen drug. I hope you feel better and can get back to feeling normal. Did you call you doctor to tell them about the blood yet?
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sorry to hear the rough go you ladies are having with Arimidex and Tamoxifen. My mom is so exhausted on T. I'm Triple Neg, so no options for me at all after chemo. Just doing melatonin and 5HT and reishi mushroom caps - drinking green tea like gangbusters and just hope it can really make a difference. Are any of you having swelling? My ankes were a little bit of a problem before c and now worse. I started a tincture for edema. I dont remember what it's called - name is just letters sounding like an acronym. But trust my herbologist would make sure no contraindications. Only on it 4 days so far and no huge difference yet but sitting on my computer 14 hours a day doenst help, I know.
This may seem random, but here's great info on teas I just saw posted in one of my Facebook groups ...
Taken from: http://www.drlam.com/opinion/detoxification_tea.asp
Kinds of Tea
Tea can be broken down into 2 categories: non-herbal teas and herbal teas. Non-herbal teas can be further broken down into three basic categories: black, green, and oolong. Black tea is the most popular, representing over 90 percent of the tea consumed in the U.S. Black tea has been fully oxidized or fermented and yields a hearty-flavored, amber brew. Some of the popular black teas include English Breakfast (a popular choice for breakfast due to its hearty flavor that mixes well with milk), Darjeeling (a blend of Himalayan teas with a flowery bouquet suited for lunch and snacks) and Orange Pekoe (a blend of Ceylon teas that is the most widely used of the tea blends).
Green tea, unlike black tea, is not oxidized. It has a more delicate taste and is light green/golden in color. Green tea, a staple in the Japan, is gaining popularity in the U.S. due in part to recent scientific studies linking green tea drinking with reduced cancer risk.
Oolong tea, popular in China, is partly oxidized and is a cross between black and green tea in color and taste.
All regular, non-herbal teas contain varying amounts of antioxidants and caffeine.
While flavored teas evolve from these three basic teas, herbal teas contain no true tea leaves; herbal and "medicinal" teas are created from the flowers, berries, peels, seeds, leaves, and roots of many different plants. Detox herbal teas are special teas made of blends of herbs with special detoxification and cleansing properties. Herbal and detoxification teas normally do not contain any caffeine.
Benefits of Tea
Tea is rich in antioxidant polyphenols (catechins, flavonols, theaflavins and thearubigins). These antioxidants are believed to be the active ingredients behind the beneficial effects of tea. Antioxidants help repair damage to cells and blood vessel walls from free radicals. They also help reduce blood clots, which could decrease the risk of a heart attack. Flavonoids are also found in varying amounts of fruits and vegetables as well.
While drinking non-herbal tea has been promoted for everything from curing cancer to reducing heart attack, scientific studies are not conclusive.
Experts at King's College, London studied 340 men and women who had suffered heart attacks and matched them by age, gender, and neighborhood residence with people who had no history of heart attack. They then compared the two groups' coffee and tea drinking habits for a year. The tea drinkers drank black tea as opposed to green tea (which contains fewer flavonoids) or herbal teas (which contain none).
Findings revealed that the tea drinkers' risk of a heart attack approached half of the non-tea drinkers. Scientists speculate that tea's beneficial cardio effects are due to the beverage's large amounts of flavonoids.
Two cups of tea also have the equivalent antioxidant activity of one and a half glasses of red wine, 12 glasses of white wine, seven glasses of orange juice, and 12 glasses of beer.
Tea consumption tended to reduce the development of aortic atherosclerosis in rabbits when studied in a laboratory setting. Tea polyphenols exert marked effects on cells, and inhibit neutrophil migration and inflammatory responses, sometimes at low concentrations. Other studies have shown no significant difference. Unfortunately epidemiological evidence relating regular consumption of tea or related polyphenols to cardiovascular heart disease is equivocal. Specifically, catechins are absorbed from tea, but low plasma concentrations are attained and whether such low plasma levels have therapeutic effect remains to be validated. Also, the bioavailability of the flavins and thearubigins is unknown at this time. Tea does not reduce blood pressure or plasma lipids in well-controlled human trials, although sporadic case reports have been positive. Tea polyphenols inhibit LDL lipid peroxidation in vitro, but the effect ex vivo is small.
Antioxidant Content of Tea
The antioxidant content of various types of tea has been well studied. An analysis on 20 common brands of tea has shown that they contain widely varying amounts of antioxidants, which are known to help fight off cancer and heart disease among other illnesses.
The following teas were brewed for 3 minutes each and the antioxidant level is shown below:
Brand of Tea Catechin content (in milligrams)
Celestial Seasonings Green Tea 217
Lipton Green Tea 201
Bigelow Darjeeling Blend (black tea) 164
Uncle Lee's Green Tea 157
Stash Premium Green Tea Decaf 53
Twinings Earl Grey Black Tea 46
Bigelow Constant Comment (black tea) 38
Bigelow Constant Comment Decaf 10
Lipton Lemon Iced Tea 0
Snapple Peach Iced Tea 0
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annette- Thank you for sharing your nightmare. I have been fighting my Onc for months. She wants to shut down my ovaries or remove them so I can get on Arimidex. I am in a constant state of "am I making the biggest mistake of my life not taking it". Like you, I react very, very strongly to any meds. I just know my body would react badly to daily chemicals. As I kept explaining to my Onc, if these AIs are so strong to impact BC, what else are they doing in other areas of your body?? It has taken real perseverence to resist the traditional medical way. At her suggestion, I am seeing a new Onc soon. I am hoping she will be more willing to work with me with supplements and alternatives. I can't help but believe all of us have a better chance at staying healthy because of all the lifestyle and nutrition changes we have made. It just doesn't make sense to pop a pill with a diet soda and think you are protected. I hope you get back to normal fast. Drink lots of water and DO report it to the FDA as a serious incident. If more people took the time to do that, perhaps we wouldn't be hearing of things being pulled from the shelves every other week!
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Will do...my oncologist has NOT called back! THank god this stuff seems to be working itself out of my system...slept like the dead this afternoon. Blood stopped this afternoon -hope that was it-just a trace. I am now going to go see another oncologist (the other can bite my *ss) at md anderson who appears very proactive on negating side effects or avoiding them. She has allkinds of papers/speeches out on it...lets see if it is truth or not.
I will tell her from the start that I cannot will not take a conventional AI, If she wants to treat me, fine. If not, I guess I will lie and say I am taking them just so I am monitored. Which is pathetic.
I have been drinking water by the buckets and laid outside in the sun for 30 minutes drinking in the sunlight. That was the most healing of all I think.
Thank you all for being here.
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Vivre,
Where exactly is Sanoviv? Just wondered since I live in San Diego (although no one I know ventures to the other side of the border anymore.) How far South is it? Sounds interesting. Do you have an approximate cost? Thanks.
Ali
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We also have a place called OHI (Optimal Health Clinic) in San Diego that I was considering. I believe it's well known. It's not just for BC patients but sounds similar.
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BarbaraA: So Delicious coconut ice cream with Agave is so delicious! It's my ice cream replacement. No dairy, no sugar. Yummy!
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On hypnosis:
My therapist does it and it works for some people. He actually has you looking one way, then another as one of a few tools to decide if you are a candidate. He seems to think I may be a little too much of a cynic for it to work on me, though he helps my daughter some with it - but for anxieity. I guess he uses it for help in changing habits. There's also a technique called guided imagery which is similar to hypnotism that has helped people quit smoking and to change other habits. I talked to an accupuncturist who's done well helping people change habits/behaviors with guided imagery.
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Sherry, Thanks for the resources for good teas. Will check them out.
Rachel
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ValGirl,
Thanks for Brassica Tea info. You ladies are all great sources. You do your shopping!
Rachel
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RachelKa - What is your tincture for edema?? Would love to know as I am having some concerns with swelling. Thanks.
AnnetteK - My goodness girl! I am glad that you are surrounded by loved ones ... you are getting good advice on here .... yes, drink lots of green tea and water.
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An added note about tea, that I am sure I mentioned in our past postings on tea, but it is good to bring it up again: I have a great tea shop in my town that makes incredible blends (also available online, (Sereneteaz.com). They told me that green and white tea can be resteeped 3-4 times and that after the first brewing it is naturally decaffinated. So this is justification for buying the loose leaf, more expensive teas, as they also have more antioxidant value. Also, when buying teabags, look for UNBLEACHED. You do not want to add any more chlorine to your body. Better yet, skip the bags and use the tea strainers.
Annette-You can do a lot to detox the chemicals out of you. Drinking water is a great start,as is exercise. Sweat it out! Even better is to find a far infrared sauna. You also want to clean out the liver and colon with a caffeine free, alcohol free, sugar free, and gluten free diet for a few weeks. This will allow those organs to be less taxed with their daily chores that they will be able to go to work on the toxins. You can also use a product like I use for liver support,( Hepasil from Usana) and/or get on the iodine protocol that many of us follow. Check out the iodine thread if you have not done so. You may get things like itching, headaches and lethargy (I had this) while detoxing. That is because as the toxins are released, they are looking for ways to get out. But stay with it. Once you get things flowing, you will be amazed at how much energy you end up with. And incase you haven't heard my preaching before-try rebounding. This is the BEST way to clear out the lymphatic system. The bouncing moves the lymph and every cell in the body, like nothing else.
Pixlepup-I just got an email from Sanoviv explaining their programs. The prices are will depend on the number of people who want to go. I might even put it on the main forums if enough people show interest. The prices will depend on how much people want to do, since everything is personalized. So each person will have to call to get their own estimates. For someone like me, who mainly wants dental work, it will not be the same as for someone who is actively dealing with cancer, or just finished and wants a great detox program. I will be happy to forward the email to anyone who wants to send me their email. Then you can contact the same person and let them know you are interested. As far as the location goes, you know better than I do as you are right there. I know it is about 30 miles from San Diego and they take care of transportation from the US so you do not have to drive over the border by yourself.
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thanks for all the good info...man, I had a complete and utter mental breakdown this morning...but I think it had more to do with my kiddo going kind of nuts...yet, i do think he might have been reacting in his own way to me being so out of kilter...when he is stressed...well, it is not a good thing. Ack...i am going to go in the tub and turn the jets on...and worry about cleaning up the bottle of ketchup he squirted all through the house later....
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Hi Vivre,
Thanks for the tips on the tea! I wasn't aware of any of it! I guess I'll hunt for my old teaball now. Also, I'd love the number of Sanoviv is you could PM me. I'm still a bit afraid of going to Mexico, but it sounds like a great place for healing. Thanks. Ali
Does anyone drink Kombucha? My acupuncturist swears by it (even makes his own), but I've never heard anything about it here.
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RachelKd,
Thanks for all your info on tea as well. I have been drinking Constant Comment and now find it has almost NO Catechin content! Wow! I will be changing immediately! My BF will only drink Good Earth Lemongrass so I'll need to see if I can find out more about it too. Thanks SO much. Ali
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Where do I find this Coconut Ice cream that isn't ice cream? I want it NOW! Yum!
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pixelpup: I found it both at Whole Foods and my local health food store. Beware: it is expensive and it's addicting!
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Hi ladies, there's another online event starting 2/24 that some of y'all might like to join. The format is similar to the great health debate that happened earlier this month. There's two interviews per day and it's available for free within the designated timeslots. Then, of course, they sell recordings of it afterwards. http://www.tappingworldsummit.com/
I listened to the 2010 tapping summit and benefitted from it tremendously. One thing about myself that I don't like is the way I cry very easily. I've seen a counsellor for years but this one aspect just sticks to me like glue. The meridian tapping finally gave me the tool to gain the upper hand. I am so looking forward to this year's information. I'm a big fan of FREE, and I hope others will enjoy the information also. Even topics last year that I didn't think I'd find relevant were surprisingly engaging.
pixelpup, did you find any vendors of So Delicious coconut products? I don't eat thier ice cream, but I love their coconut milk. There's 3 flavors. I prefer the original. It cooks well also. Puddings and custards turn out great. I use it in soups. It's great with coffee. It even steams up some foam for a starbucks at home latte if you have an espresso maker. If any of your local stores carry the brand, the sodelicious website will say where to find it.
sheila, I was wondering if you had a section in mind for starting an elderly parent thread. I'm just not so sure that dementia is the main culprit for my mom. How does anyone distinguish between dementia and side effects from the lengthy list of meds she's on?? Meds that have mental confusion listed for side effects. Mix four of those together, and how can anyone tell what's really going on?? My personal mission for my mom is to pick off her scrips one by one. It's getting close to a year that I've been preparing her dinners. Her dose for diovan (bp med) has dropped from 320 mg/day to 80. I got her off symbyax, and she no longer stares into space with a blank expression on her face. Right now she's free of a urinary tract infection, but they recur frequently and she tanks after taking the antibiotics.
So what do y'all think about having a thread in the alternative section for dealing with elderly parents who are taking handsful of meds and still in poor health? If not here, where? Any title suggestions?
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althea I don't know if they still have any or not, but 15 years ago when I was taking care of my grandmother they had Geriatric units in some of the hospitals when geriactric pts could go and they would take them off of all their meds and put them back on in importance and were able to eliminate many medications that these people where on. Medicare paid for these in patient days. Don't know if any still exist or not.
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Althea- wondering if the tapping summit would help me with the opposite problem of you. I CANNOT cry?!? I have a lot of trouble crying, and I am not sure if it's because I've been through a lot the past 10 years, my age, or what has caused this. I used to cry all the time in my teens and 20's. My 30's I started having panic attacks following the birth of my son, had a little bit of PTSD over a late-term pregnancy loss, and then the cancer Dx.
At times, I wish I could cry, because it would make me feel better. I can sometimes find a tear jerker movie and I'll cry, and I feel SO MUCH BETTER afterwards. What a strange problem to have?!?
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Question! I just bought turmericforce...I don't know how much to take everyday...it is 400mg. It has olive oil and no soy. Is this as good as curcumin? Or did I just blow 20 bucks?:) thanks
Marianne-maybe the damn tears got scared right out of you! If you can still cry at movies, maybe that is because it is isn't *personal*. Seriously. It seems so hard ot find a balance between crying enough or too much. Maybe your body is just giving you a break right now.
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Hmmmm coconut icecream. I'm wondering if I can put coconut milk in my little electric ice cream machine? We usually make fresh fruit gelato, but coconut icecream sounds fabulous. Does Wholefoods carry So Delicious?
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Marianna, I think you and every person on the planet could benefit from meridian tapping. If I was just getting started on my journey into alternative methods for healing, I'd probably say oh puhleeze and roll my eyes. It's pretty much out there. Even the experts who give the talks say they don't know how or why it works, just that it does work on all kinds of issues. Procrastination, weight loss, panic attacks, grief, addictions, ptsd. There's a lot of sites that have information about tapping, but I'm very put off by most of them because they want your name and email address before they even give an idea of what the concept entails. So even though the tapping summit also requires your name and email address, you at least get a hefty preview of who the speakers and topics will be and you'll get a boatload of information over the next 10 days.
sherry, thanks for that information. I am such a different kind of patient than my mom. That's a big source of conflict for me. She goes along with whatever the doctor says. She takes all those meds willingly and balks at the supplements.
annette, is that a flying goat in your avatar?? lol
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it is indeed:) it is to keep me focused and get cracking on starting "Goat Creek Farm" for my son...he is 24 and has autism and I need to create somewhere for him to live safely after we are gone and i can't wait until we are (nothing like BC to give you a kick in the pants)...and I like goats!
I have no idea why but I do and this little guy makes me smile. 0 -
Marianna - It is normal .. the NOT crying thing ... I can cry when friends dog was hit by a car and died, when I watch a sad movie or even for neighbours who have gone through trying times .. but for me .. I couldnt cry .. I truly believe that inside I knew I had to do what ever to keep me on track and no one else is here to help me, so I couldnt cry until I knew if I 'lost it' that it would not have a significant affect on my progress. I actually cried for three days once I finally made a decision to have surgery and I had a date etc .. saw a doctor cause I was scared that I would not stop and she was disgusted that I was bothering her ... 'of course you are going to cry, look what you are dealing with' OMG she treated me like I was wasting her time. I couldnt sleep (cause I was crying all the time) and she gave me a prescription so I had to renew it every day cause she thought I was vulnorable for suicide ... I never ever filled the prescription and cancelled my appointment with the Psychiatrist! I saw my GP who is in the neighbouring city (as I just moved here etc) and he said I have every right to cry, and that I do not need to see a psychiatriatrist as I am not psychotic but maybe a psychologist would help ... but not covered by medical (he has known me for 25 years) and I havent cried since. But, then I have read and been told by other cancer patients that crying actually releases toxins from the body so cry any way that you can! That is my take on crying ... I can cry when I talk about others having cancer and how it has devastated their lives .. but, for me it is not that critical ... it could be way worse. I just go forward ...
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Althea,
I think coping with aging parents would be a good topic in this alternative and complementary thread. It's part of the spirit of this group to be pro-active and look for a kinder, gentler approach. My mother has passed but we were able to spend her last years together exchanging new ways to live healthier. We had some scraps over doctors who took advantage of her but I learned a lot about myself and it made me a better health consumer.
I was very moved my your question, "if not here, where?" You have to start some where. If not now, when?
Count me in if you start a thread!
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