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Comments

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2009

    A lot of people used morton's salt thinking it is sufficient for our iodine needs and despite what the USDA recommends for our daily allowance of iodine (150 mcg), it's so pathetically inadequate it's difficult to fathom where the information came from. First of all, morton's salt is highly refined.  It contains iodide rather than iodine, which is added back after the refining and bleaching removes nearly all nutritional value it had to begin with. I started using unrefined sea salt in december.  Not only does it contain nutrients absent in refined salt but it tastes so much better it's a mystery to me that anyone ever preferred refined salt in the first place.  

    I finally got a copy of Dr Brownstein's book "Iodine:  why you need it and why you can't live without it."  He explains that 150 mcg is sufficient to prevent goiter and mental retardation, but I was disappointed to see no explanation of why the USDA proclaims iodine to be toxic starting at 1100 mcg.  This is a drop in the bucket compared to the japanese, for example, who average 13 mg per day (a country with very low rates of breast and prostate cancers).  Every cell in our body needs iodine.  Our thyroid needs it, our breast tissue needs it.  

    There's a yahoo group dedicated to iodine, and many people, myself included, are taking 50 mg/day of iodoral (iodine/iodide combination), and a lot of improvement to health is happening as a result.  People are healing cancerous thyroids with iodine, fibrocystic breast disease, ovarian cysts, fatigue (still waiting for my ship to sail on that front), and many many others.  

    So getting back to the list, I'd wager a guess that refined salt is the food additive to avoid.  I'd also like to spotlight potassium bromate for a moment.  This is the additive now used in bakery bread products.  Several decades ago, our bread used to have iodine added to it, and one slice would yield the 150 mcg RDA of iodine.  Then somehow someone decided too much iodine could be consumed via bread, so iodine was removed and brominated flour is used instead.  Bromide is a toxic substance and what on earth it's doing in our bread I have no idea, yet the bread products on our shelves receive a government stamp of approval.  Even worse are the citrus flavored drinks that contain brominated vegetable oil.  I gave up soda for the most part decades ago, but as a kid, Mt Dew was my fave, and it is the WORST offender in terms of brominated vegetable oil.  This substance is bad not just because it's toxic, but also because it's molecular structure is similar to iodine and they compete for the same receptors.  Whereas bread used to be a source of iodine, it now contains bromine, a competitor of iodine.  A double-whammy loss.  

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 272
    edited July 2009

    Thanks Althea,

    I can barely buy any bread products anymore for all the junk allowed in it.  I think I'm going to steal the list that simvog provided and add a couple of my own pet peeves:

    Top 12 Food Additives to Remove From Your Diet
    Thanks to MSN Health & Fitness contributor Jean Weiss, a list of the most medically questionable and harmful additives in everyday foods has been compiled:
    1. Sodium nitrite
    2. BHA & BHT
    3. Propyl gallate
    4. Monosodium glutamate
    5. Trans fats
    6. Aspartame
    7. Acesulfame-K
    8. Food colorings (Blue & , Red , Green , Yellow )
    9. Olestra
    10. Potassium bromate
    11. White sugar
    12. Sodium chloride

    13. soy lecithin

    14. splenda, or sucralose

    http://www.healthnews.com/nutrition-diet/healthnews-dozen-top-12-food-additives-remove-from-your-diet-3374.html

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 624
    edited July 2009

    .Althea, I agree that replacing iodine in bread with potassium bromate was a stupid thing to do.  But, I'm curious as to why you say that bromide is a toxic substance.   It's a salt, naturally occurring, and not toxic unless it, like just about anything else, is overused.

  • my3girls
    my3girls Member Posts: 1,291
    edited July 2009

    I am new to this thread...and will take all the help I can get.  I have tried 8 months on Arimidex, and 1 month on Aromasin....I CANT DO IT!!! I feel HORRIBLE! I see my oc on Tuesday...and I just can't live like this. I can barely function. I quit the Aromasin last Monday..so almost a week ago. I am so fatigued...and I hurt all over. Even my hands. I am at a computer most of the day at work..so this makes work difficult. I am usually a very active person...I run or power walk 5 times a week.  I can hardly get out of bed to get ready for work, let alone work out prior, as I was doing. I am hoping by the end of this week..the s/e from the Aromasin are gone.

    Any of you ladies been on or are supposed to be on these AI's and have found a natural estrogen blocker? I will take any and all information with me to my OC on Tues.

    Also, I have never been such a sugar craver.  Actually while on the Aromasin, I had NO appetite...of course this sounds good..fast weight loss...but we all know it's not healthy.  But since going off that drug...I have had a sugar craving!! I know how bad it is...so any tips on how to curb that?  I just don't feel at all like myself right now...and I need HELP!!

    Thanks for listening...and any input will be greatly appreciated!!

    xoxo

    Lisa

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2009

    lindasa, here's a link to an article that's almost 10 years old about a failed attempt to get the FDA to ban potassium bromate in bakery products.
    http://www.cspinet.org/new/bromate.html

    Here are the first two paragraphs:

    The Center for Science in the Public Interest today petitioned the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to prohibit the use of potassium bromate, which is used to strengthen bread dough. CSPI charged that the FDA has known for years that bromate causes cancers in laboratory animals, but has failed to ban it.

         Bromate was first found to cause tumors in rats in 1982. Subsequent studies on rats and mice confirmed that it causes tumors of the kidney, thyroid, and other organs. Instead of banning bromate, since 1991 the FDA — with only partial success — has urged bakers to voluntarily stop using it.

    ------------

    Later in the article, it also says Best Foods, Pepperidge Farm and Pillsbury do not use brominated flour in their products.   

    I wasn't good in science as a student.  I don't have a good grasp of the distinctions between bromate, bromide, bromine terminologies.  I tend to use them interchangeably, which may not be appropriate, but I suspect none of the permutations are good for us.  For one thing, it's not on the list of any multivitamin I've ever taken.  Iodine is.  

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2009

    my3girls,

    Has anyone tested your hormone levels?  In my case, my estrogen levels weren't tested until 3 years post-dx.  Some women do have oncs who monitor hormone levels, but my onc wasn't even interested (claims the 'information isn't helpful', as he writes out a scrip for tamoxifen).  This just really makes no sense to me. 

    I have a friend locally who had bc the same time as me.  She was well into her menopause years and had a pcp who monitored her estrogen.  Hers was ridiculously low, like 2.  When she went to her onc for a followup, he wanted her to take hormone therapy.  She waved her estrogen labs in his face and asked, why should I take something to suppress my estrogen levels??  I'm a TWO!  He hemmed and hawed and didn't have an answer.  My friend left and never went back.  I can't help but wonder how many women are taking AI's when there's next to zero estrogen to begin with.  That would be my starting point.  

    I barely know what aromasin is.  I'm sure some other ladies will pipe in with helpful tips for your next onc visit.  

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 624
    edited July 2009

    Althea, there is no reason to include bromide in a multivitamin, but there is certainly a good case for iodine!  I worry about some studies  because, as I said before, too much of anything is always bad, and so many studies never seem to mention the amounts given to lab animals.  Apples contain cyanide and formaldehyde, but the amounts are so miniscule as to do no harm.

    I noted on my 12-grain loaf made in Canada that bromate is not included, although another form of salt is.  I believe bromate is the oxidized form of bromide (science wasn't my best subject either!).

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2009

    On this topic, you're lucky to be in Canada!  Canada and England have both outlawed brominated flour.  And I agree with you about some of these studies.  I'm not familiar with the Center for Science in the Public Interest and I debated whether to link to the article.  It was in front of my face at the time, though, and with my attention span of a gnat, I figured it was better to respond with something than not at all. 

    While we're on the topic of 'ides' and 'ines', two other common substances also compete with iodine -- floride and chlorine.  The water in my community practically smells like a swimming pool when the water comes out of the tap.  I suspect it has floride in it also, as many communities do.  Anyway, chlorine and floride are also halides and compete with iodine for the same receptors.  Information on chlorine and floride are all over the place, claims that it's safe, claims that it's poison and why is it in our water.  My head is what ends up swimming as I try to determine who has the credible information.  Things would be so much simpler if the USDA and FDA would simply BE the gold standard for information, but there's giant gaping holes in their credibility.  Iodine is one of the topics where they've missed the boat by a few oceans. 

    Here's a link to an article with many references advocating the use of iodine

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 536
    edited July 2009

    Lisa, I am so sorry you had such an awful time on the AL's, you poor thing!! You have come to the right place! I am attaching some info on DIM you should also check out the iodine thread.

    http://www.dimfaq.com/index.htm

      

    http://www.diindolylmethane.org/molecular_biology.htm

      

    http://www.dimfaq.com/site/cancer.htm

      

    http://diindolylmethane.blogspot.com/2007/06/dim-clinical-applications-and-research.html

      

    http://www.dimfaq.com/site/abstracts3.htm

      

    http://www.diindolylmethane.org/cliinical_applications.htm

      

    http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym/dim.html

      

    http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=art477&zTYPE=2

      

    http://mct.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/6/10/2757

      

    http://www.saintfrancis.com/breastServices/index.aspx?chunkiid=104670

  • donnadio
    donnadio Member Posts: 674
    edited July 2009

    Althea..  having hormones checked is what i am looking to do. IT is only a month since my last treatment but what can they do it I am off balance? Had been on bio-idenbticals prior to my DX and now not sure what can be done? That is where i am confused. Having hot flashes since chemo and no period in about a year.. know i am menopausal. Think it is a good idea to have hormones check and for my3girls.  I am still looking into the ovaries coming out and would hope some estrogen therapy would be part of this since i am also triple negative?

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 272
    edited July 2009

    Lisa,

    Another thing you can do is add 25 grams of fiber to your diet daily.  Fiber aids us in getting rid of excess or stored estrogen.  It's also been known to break down plaque in our arteries and safely get rid of that over time. It's a double whammy for us.  Actually, it's a triple, good for the ca ca too.

    Here's a list of high fiber foods:

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-fiber-foods/NU00582

    Look for high fiber cereals without aspartame or other phoney sugars.

    What's wrong with having a bit of sweet tooth?  We have to live.  As long as your not eating whole cakes in one sitting,  I got rid of sugar in most places so I can have some sweets when I want to and because of that, everything tastes too sweet to me. 

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 272
    edited July 2009

    About the drinking water.  I was knocked off my chair over this one.  I was having a bit of trouble getting the water test kit to give me a good reading of the chlorine in my pool.  Or I thought I was having trouble.  So I checked the water coming from my faucet.  It registered high on chlorine also, the same as the pool!  I did the test again, high again.  So I took another sample, this time using the water filter.  That tested low, or no sign of chlorine.  Ummmm, Houston, we have a problem. 

    What I learned from this, I'll never go without a water filter on my faucet again.

  • mandy1313
    mandy1313 Member Posts: 978
    edited July 2009

    Hi! I just read the ingredients of the loaf of ordinary Pepperidge Farm Whole Wheat bread and they list "unbromated stone ground 100 per cent whole wheat flour...."  So it is not that hard to avoid bromated flour......but, of course, there are other things in the bread that I'd like to avoid such as corn syrup.  Looks like I will be bringing out my old bread making machine....!!!!

    Have a nice day.

  • AllieM22
    AllieM22 Member Posts: 188
    edited July 2009

    This is what got me to get a bread machine! It's not that hard to make, lasts for a week outside the fridge (it's cool in the house) and you don't have to search for breads that don't have all that crap in it. 

    Rosemary--I've had the same experience with sugar-since we got off most sugar except for some 70%+ dark chocolate, things do taste really sweet, and not in a good way. I do bake every once and a while and make something from a natural or healthy cookbook that calls for much less sugar and uses whole wheat flour. It's all what you are used to...

    I am mtg with my onc this week and will ask her about hormone testing. Although she had initially discussed ovary removal (or the chemical way by getting a monthly shot) the first time we met (just running through the options), she has since not recommended it. I asked her about it and she said she hasn't seen enough proof that it produces better results. And as we know, estrogen has many functions in the body so they should be cautious about completely shutting down the supply. I think the issue with testing is that it can vary throughout the month, and there isn't a gold standard for what the range should be--but I will let you know what she says. 

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 506
    edited July 2009

    Rosemary, are those chlorine test kits inexpensive?  I'm wondering how much chlorine is in my tap water and how much is still there after the brita filter. 

    Before I even knew about brominated flour, I was in the bread aisle searching for something that didnt' have soybean oil in it and left emptyhanded.  I made my own bread at home for a while, but then I realized I was also using soybean oil or butter in the loaves I liked best.  Now that I've discovered coconut oil and like it, maybe I'll bake bread again and try it with coconut oil.  For now I'm eating ezekiel bread and my favorite sandwich is avocado, sunflower seeds and sprouts. 

     As for hormone testing, I've also heard it is tricky due to fluctuations.  ....so why doesn't someone develop a protocol that involves frequent testing over a 4-week timespan?  Hello!  No one has to be a nobel prize winning scientist to see some solutions here.  Maybe there is no unflawed way of testing hormone levels, but good grief, compared with having ovaries removed, I think we should be able to do a whole heck of a lot better than what we have to choose from now.  

  • donnadio
    donnadio Member Posts: 674
    edited July 2009

    Althea... I know!!!Why can they not make things more realisitic in hormone testing and for me i am leaving my ovaries alone as long as i can. I had a BRCA gene test, no mutation found but a insignifanct variation. Called Myriad and talked with my gene cousnelor, it is all hard to explain in typing it all out, but most results like mine are benign and only if i had a occurrence in family history would it be necessary for ovaries to be removed.ALSO.. the term deliterious is the key word if this was present in my test results to be an issue for ovarian cancer..The future may bring out more research to this kind of result and if that is a possilbe reclassification, they would recontact me to do further testing.But for now, it is all not clear enough to know what cancer this could be involved in?! I just feel, ovaries are staying until i have a reason to have them removed... there are no mutations and that is enough for me. More research is needed... always is!!!

    Breads.. i eat Sami Bread..non gluten and come comes in many forms..raisin, bananna, all so tasty and order it as i cannot find a place close enough to buy it. Look it up online.. excellent bread and no wheat!!!

    Thanks for all the good info.

    Donna

  • Munchy
    Munchy Member Posts: 59
    edited July 2009

    Ladies - you are right, I did not have an oncotype done, as there was definitely lymph node involvement. 

    Fairy - I could not get any definite numbers from my onc regarding risks w/ or wo/tamoxifen.  This was supposedly because they usually use the number of affected lymph nodes removed during surgery for staging, but mine were clear when removed.  However, there was definitely cancer there before chemo - we just don't know how many nodes were affected.  He gave me two sets of numbers - one for clear nodes (great odds for me!) and one for affected nodes (guessing at the number, 1 or 2?) (not so good odds).  I've come to the conclusion they're all guessing anyway.

    Althea - I have started taking Iodoral after reading about it on this thread.  Doing all I can, right?

    Rosemary - Yes, I had rads after my lumpectomy.  In retrospect, I wish I had just had the mastectomy and been done with it.  Especially after I developed lymphedema, yuk!

    Simvog, Rosemary - one more to add to your list of BAD food additives - high fructose corn syrup - it is FAR worse than white sugar.

    I am still waiting for word on the results of my mammogram and ultrasound.  I called my surgeon this morning and am hoping for a call back sometime today. 

  • Springtime
    Springtime Member Posts: 3,372
    edited July 2009

    Hi all,

    Does anybody know if drinking water with some bubbles in it is bad for our bones? I love drinking S. Pelagrino which is a lightly bubbly water from Italy. 

    But something keeps nagging at the back of my brain about this....

    Spring...

  • mandy1313
    mandy1313 Member Posts: 978
    edited July 2009

    I think it is club sode that is bad....and that natual fizzy water is ok. But I could easily be wrong. 

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 536
    edited July 2009

    Can I just take Iodoral without doing the whole loading test thing?? Spring, I drink a TON of Pelagrino and Perrier, so I am hoping that is ok, if not oh well!!!Embarassed

  • danigirlx1
    danigirlx1 Member Posts: 14
    edited July 2009

    Hi everyone,

    I just discovered you today.  I chose an alternative route for my chemo. using Insulin Potentiation Therapy and now I want to see if I can avoid using the Tamoxifen and use alternative choices.  I have been doing the research and I read the article Tamoxifen A Major Medical Mistake? 1998.  Fairy49 I noticed you said you did not do Tamoxifen and I realize it is going to take me a long time to go through all the posts here.  Is there some things you can point me to in order to buck up on options?  I will def. do the prog. cream.  I have placed calls to two Naturopath docs. but I can't be sure they are up on this area of expertise.  Even the doc. overseeing my IPT did not offer something other than Tamoxifen.  I have ascertained that women who are premenopausal do not nec. receive so much benefit from the Tamoxifen.  The side effects are disturbing.  Before BC I was in excellent health.  B4 my surgery the nurse says, "Wow you don't even have high blood pressure"  like I was some strange bird coming in for surgery whose history for all issues except anemia was negative and that was odd and unusual!

  • AllieM22
    AllieM22 Member Posts: 188
    edited July 2009

    I'm sure you will get a number of responses on why people think tamoxifen is bad for you being that this is a 'natural girls' thread... :)....however I just wanted to chime in, as someone pre-meno taking tamoxifen, that I have not read that it is not useful for pre-menopausal women. In fact, pre-meno women CAN'T take AIs (the other option). So I would suggest looking into it before crossing it off your list of options just to be more educated on it.

    While it's absolutely true that some women do experience side effects, some of which make them choose not to continue taking it, many women are just fine on it--me being one (and I hope I am not jinxing myself by saying this!!). It has been used for many years (more than 30 I think) so there is a good track record for it and studies show it decreases recurrence.

    I am sure I will get blasted for saying all this but I thought I would add my two cents! :)

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 272
    edited July 2009

    Althea,

    The test kit is from a pool supply store.  They'll test your water for free.  Just bring them a fresh sample.  They'll think your pool is totally out of whack which will be funny.  Just ask them to test the chlorine.  I use a pur filter on my faucet and I can tell you it works.  The test kits cost $20. 

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 536
    edited July 2009

    Hi Danigirl! Welcome! :) I did choose not to take tamox, I think its a totally personal choice, and I applaud AllieM22 for having the balls to take it, to be honest with you, I just couldn't.  I know its been around for many years, I know there are studies etc, I just think that the studies are not all correct, if you do your research you will find that many are inaccurate, because they include women with DCIS so of course the numbers are not accurate.  I also don't want to trade one disease for another, like you, I am super healthy apart from the little BC blip :) so it was my choice to choose supplements, diet, exercise instead.  Check out the DIM thread this is the first thing to start on, then the iodine thread, these two things are super important.  Keep reading everything you can, knowledge is power!!!  you will be amazed by what the wonderful women here know, they keep me on track!

    L

    ox

  • seaotter
    seaotter Member Posts: 642
    edited July 2009

    Hey Fairy, how's that bladder infection?

    danigirl - Welcome!!! I too opted not to take tamoxifen. I did try it for 2 weeks at half the dose. I was so miserable so I stopped it. I just can't believe no estrogen at all is healthy. I am post menopausal so I don't think I have much going on anyway! I am taking dim and calcium d glucrarate and other supplements. Do your research and go with your heart. Ask questions, like Fairy said these women are WONDERFUL!!!!!

    Patty

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 536
    edited July 2009

    Sea/Patty!! Thanks for checking! seems like its all cleared up, thank goodness! I also think part of the problem may be the beginnings of vaginal atrophy - oh the fun!! After reading about it, it can cause bladder infections, soooooooo I have been reading about estriol, which is inserted vaginally and protects from all the icky stuff happening "down there" such as dryness, etc.  Estriol seems to be protective also, along with progesterone, so I am considering it too. 

    Ivory/Meg, good luck on the tamox!!

    L

    ox

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 881
    edited July 2009

    Dani-welcome. Hope we can help you. Ivory, make sure you continue to get urine tests done so you can see whether or not the meds are actually changing anything. I just get so mad that these docs prescribe meds but do not do any pre or post testing. How do they know if they are doing anything! All I can say is that, like Fairy, my estrogen levels showed a big difference after all the changes I made and the I3C, but then I found out I3C  and DIM work better for perimenopausal women and myomine works better for us older gals, so I have switched and will test again.

    Fairy- I posted on our other thread. I just got  a BHRT compound from my compounding pharmacist. It is a mixture of estriol and progesterone. He follows Dr. Lee's recommendations so I feel it is safe. He calls it "female balance" and he uses aloe vera as the cream base, which I also like. So I am ready to take the plunge, just waiting to hear how you are doing on it. Hope you don't mind being MY guinea pig for a change. LOL

  • fairy49
    fairy49 Member Posts: 536
    edited July 2009

    Hey Vivre! I will keep you posted! I have to say, I am a little anxious doing the progesterone, but even after such a short time, I feel better, I have slept better and I am calmer.....so......we shall see!  A friend of mine has been on progesterone for about 3 weeks, she looks so good! She doesn't have BC, she said that so many people have said how much better she looks LOL!! bit of a back handed compliment somewhat, but she doesn't mind!! She is in menopause, and hadn't had a period in several months, but her period started today, do you think progesterone might cause that?

    L

    ox

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 2,701
    edited July 2009

    my3girls ~  I meant to answer you a few days ago about not being on an A/I.  I'm clearly in that category -- tried Femara, had a very serious SE, and will not go back on it or any A/I.  I've been on I3C, as well as some immune building supplements and a low-fat, low-estrogen type diet.  I will probably switch to DIM when I finish up my bottle of I3C.  I also walk about 4 miles a day, which significantly reduces our risk of recurrence.  My estrogen levels are <10, so I truly believe the I3C is working for me, and that along with everything else I'm doing, I'm not putting myself at risk by not being on an A/I.  We each metabolize drugs differently, and I've always been overly sensitive to most pharmaceuticals.  So I feel that what I'm doing is right for me.  I'm also planning to see a Naturopathic doctor I just met today about iodine supplementing and natural progesterone.  I would just feel more comfortable with that kind of guidance when it comes to those 2 pieces of the puzzle, and my PCP wasn't up on either regimen.

    I'm curious to hear what your onc said about your situation.    Deanna

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 881
    edited July 2009

    Lorraine- We are not in menopause unless we go a year without a period, so she may still be in limbo. I was concerned about getting periods again. I heard SS got hers, and lord knows I am so glad I am done with THAT! Hopefully, my dear guinea pig friend will let me know if that happens! LOL

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