natural girls
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I'm beginning to wonder about Texas. I can't find one Congressperson having a town hall meeting. Where'd they all go? I guess it's never good to have meetings where everyone attending is packin, even the Congressperson. Never good.
Speaking of such things, I've been reading some about the organic farmers are all up in arms. They aren't too happy about that report and they're saying it's hogwash. They're preaching to the choir here, but they need to get out their own studies. I am enjoying all the organic selections I have locally, and if people believe there is no difference in nutrition, I'm afraid my choices will come to an end.
More news, a town in Huron, CA. turned off the water to the small farmers fields and they're drying up. There goes our almonds that wouldn't be pasteurized. It seems an endangered small minnow is getting trapped in the water tubes. Move the fish.
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Just came from a visit with my Med Onc. I informed him that I'd taken a several week break from the tamoxifen, but that yes, I am back on it. Just 3 days ago, I started up again after 6 weeks of not taking it. He was a little horrified, but didn't make a huge deal about it. His main concern was that I'm back on it. When I explained that I just couldn't deal anymore with the hot flashes, he reiterated that I should try tincture of rhubarb, which he had recommended previously, but I had trouble finding online. He also asked when was my last period, with the thought of switching to AIs. But I told him when the time comes that I am postmenopausal, I absolutely won't want to take those and he just laughed and said "Arghh, don't do this to me." When I asked what my actual risk factor is of reoccurance based on my pathology, he said that tamox moves my risk from the low double digits to the single digits.
And I asked about the + ER/PR receptors and whether the percentage matters {I'm 50%ER+ 100%PR+}. He said that the percentage does matter, but at this point, he was walking out the door and said, "I really like that strong PR+ receptor" So I didn't get to ask what that meant, and by that point felt like I had asked him quite a few questions, so I didn't follow after him to ask, but now wish I had, because I'm wondering about the significance of that. Does anybody know?
While there, I did get to ask him what he thought about many things: the role of nutritrion in preventing reocurrance, the whole idea of hormone balancing with natural progesterone, and exercise and supplements in reducing risk. He said that he didn't like the hormone balancing idea with natural progesterone, said that there is no such thing as natural hormones.
He said that everyone should be on a Mediterranean type diet for the most optimal health at preventing anything, but also said that he's seen many who do all the right things and still develop cancer.
He did say that he's seen good studies recently that show a big connection with alcohol and BC, and that he believes there is a big connection between the thyroid and BC, as well as obesity and estrogen production. He then recommended that I come to a conference at which he will be speaking and it's all about BC, nutrition, treatment, and other related topics. He also informed me that his office now has a nutritionist who I could make an appt. with.
And he of course reiterated how good tamoxifen is at getting right to the source of the problem, while environmental factors are just too overwhelming to figure out where exactly to fight the problem. I kind of have felt the same way about some of these issues too, plus the expense is too much for me to go the Natural route completely. So I'm just going to continue the tamox for now, but will stop again if anymore quality of life issues start getting to me or if vaginal ultrasounds start to show a problem developing.
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Deanna and Fairy,
I would absolutely NOT eat more than one serving a day of fruit. And berries are best, particularly blueberries, which are not only phenomenally medicinal but low glycemic. Low carb veggies like the ones you mention, Fairy, are fine. But beets and carrots which are so tasty in juicing, will spike your blood sugar and provoke that nasty insulin we don't want.
xox
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A question for those with experience with detoxifying. I am primarily focused on liver detox. as per guidance from nat. path. using castor oil on skin and heat. I am also taking some supps. that contribute to detox.. I am curious if people have noticed urine smelling like amonia? Could it also be my body getting rid of bromide due to replacing it now with iodine?Danette
PS on the fruit issue, I lean a little more in God's direction that real, fresh, local, organic fruits are good for me and I want to be cautious about the sugar but note that whole fruit sugar is way more nutritious than the bad sugars and your body's response in terms of insulin should be more natural. Maybe I am dreaming but I def. buy into adding nuts or items that balance the glycemic effect but I would not deny my body the fruit it desires. If the fruit from the earth would kill me then I might give up working on the bigger picture.
Danette
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There are also so many therapies that call for fresh fruits and vegetables - without limiting the intake of fruits. The Gerson Therapy for example has healed so many people and calls for lots for fresh fruits and veggies. Plus, lots of juicing with carrots and other vegetables. Although it is probably not ideal to have too much sweet fruit, it stands to reason that a few servings of fresh, organic fruits and carrots per day should do a body good.
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All the good fruits and veggies are the ones high in sugar/glucose I think it's called when in fruit. They don't call em sugar beets for nothin....;) They grow beets in Idaho for sugar.
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It is my understanding that sugar from fruits, carrots, tomatoes, etc do not cause the insulin spikes because they absorb slower. Nonetheless, I will keep eating them, with a few nuts and/or cinnamon without worry. As for the blueberries being the best, I totally agree. In fact I just met a Michigan blueberry grower and we had a great conversation on the power of blueberries. They are much better for us than acai berries since they are grown right here and do not lose their power during transportation. Plus, I heard the acai berry craze here is causing shortages in the rainforest. We should try to eat our local fruits for everyone's sake. Besides Michigan can use our help right now, since this may be one of the few businesses they still have going. So eat those blueberries!
Rose-the fact that your onc is finally hiring a nutritionist shows they are starting to get it. It is only a matter of time and they will realize that tamox is not the miracle that they think it is. It does the exact same thing that DIM/I3C/Miomine do, but has serious side effects. And it does not do what iodine does. I still maintain that those drugs will not be used in 10 years as the proof mounts up that there are cheaper alternatives. There are comparison studies being done in Europe. The problem is they do not run triple blind studies here, and until they do, I will take them with a grain of salt. Until they run tests that show those who take tamox have lower recurrance rates than those who change their diet and exercise and supplements. I personally will not have any faith in their studies. Yes people can make these changes and recur, but people still have recurrances on tamox and other drugs. Also, new studies show that those who take tamox actually have a higher recurrance rate after 5 years. So then they will be putting you on arimidex, which is horrible stuff. Women were made to have hormones, they need to be balanced for good health, not eliminated.
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Vivre, I couldn't agree with you more about the arimidex, and I do worry somewhat about the long term effects of the tamox. I definitely don't plan on doing 5 years. I'm thinking 1or 2 at the most. I'm still researching and being confused by all the contradictory things that I'm reading and hearing. I definitely plan on reading more about the whole iodine thing now, especially since my Onc seems like he would agree with that aspect of it. This is 1 area I haven't read much about as of yet. And I'm still reading Dr. Lee's book about Breast Cancer, so maybe that will have an impact too.
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I, too, have a hard time believing that a normal amount of fruit can be bad for us. In the past, there have been times when I've been too busy to eat breakfast or lunch, and if the first thing I have @ 2:00 in the afternoon is an apple juice or even a bite of a muffin or anything sweet, I'll get a wave of nausea -- which I assume is an insulin spike, and which I try to avoid just because it's unpleasant. But if our weight is normal and if we get a lot of exercise (I walk 4 to 5 miles each a.m.), I can't see how blueberries can be bad -- even if I've already had a serving of cantaloupe or a few handfuls of cherries and maybe even a glass of grape juice -- which I have been craving lately and drinking a lot of. On the other hand, I am learning so much about nutrition from this new bc-survivor & reoccurence prevention perspective, and I'm sure anom has done a lot of research on this, so I do want to read up on it more.
Rose ~ As oncs go, I think I like yours. At least he's open to some holistic things. I've never heard of Tincture of Rhubarb, but if you'd like me to see if it's available in one of my large natural foods markets, I could mail it to you if it is. I'm pretty sure raw rhubarb is poisonous, so you'd definitely want to buy something like that from a long-standing, reputable homeopathic meds co.
Deanna
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Vivre, I love what you just said about tamoxifen, and I love you and your dancin hearts!
Please tell me a bit more about DIM and 13C. Which do you take, and why? Tell me also about how to supplement with iodine.
What I am doing instead of tamox is: D3, Green Tea Extract, Curcumin, organic fruits and vegetables, weight control, and of course, daily exercise. I'm interested in what else I can do.
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It is just so confusing. There is such much contradictory information out there. What do we do?! As much research as we do, there is always an alternate opinion. Boy, this cancer thing is complicated.
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Deanna, right on. Exercise burns up / metabolises both the glucose and the estrogen!!
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Rose, you are doing everything right. You are making educated decisions and looking at all sides. You just need to keep letting that little voice inside tell you what is right for YOU. When you finally make peace with whatever decision you make, you will know that you made the right one. Someone asked me if I will kick myself if I ever got a recurrance because I refused to take drugs. I can honestly say that no I will not. First of all , I do not worry about it because I have changed so much about my life, and also, I feel that I am making the educated decisions that are preventative. If I still end up with cancer, I will not feel at all guilty because I do not feel guilty I got it the first time. We cannot totally control our environments, but we sure can do a lot to counteract all the negatives that cause cancer.
All my best to you!
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Calypso, it sounds like you are really on the right path! Read the iodine and DIM threads here for lots of links that are really helpful. And you can PM me if you want to meet sometime. I am in the west suburbs. Warning! I will walk your butt off and talk your ear off!
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Isn't it kind of funny how people will ask if you would kick yourself if you have a recurrence. No one asks that of someone who has gone through chemo and the cancer comes back. Anyone who would ask that does not know much about chemo and other options available. I am not knocking them by any means. I was the same way before I was diagnosed. I had no idea of all of the options out there. It never occurred to me that there might be another way other than the traditional route. You can't kick yourself no matter what you choose. You have to believe in it 100%. There is no guarantee in any of this. There is no guarantee in life.
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Hear hear Vivre and Deni63!!!, no guarantees whatever one chooses to do, Vivre you are right, it really is a gut feeling, mine was a definate NO to tamox, and that was before I even did any research.
I just started reading Breakthrough by Suzanne Somers , what a fantastic book!!
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deni63: how true. there are no guarantees and you just have to make the best decisions that you can.
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Found this site today on Herbal Body Care and thought I would share.
Also......what do you think about this Flu Vaccine that they are preparing for Americans to take this Fall? I don't trust our government..........this H1N1 virus is very suspect to me.......a nice little homeland emergency to bring us under control.
Terry
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Some thoughts--
1) On fruit--since fiber off sets the effects of too much sugar, I think fruit is fine in any normal amounts but you should be careful with juicing since you aren't getting the fiber and are having a lot more fruit than if you ate the actual fruit.
2) I would also be interested in the research they are doing on tamoxifen vs DIM and other supplements plus diet and exercise. However, they do have long term results on tamoxifen so to whoever was worried about any long-term effects, they are already known. I think it's been 30-40 yrs in use. I am on it with no SEs except a new ovarian cyst (yippee)--so I will have to monitor that and make a decision down the road whether to stay on tamox or not.
3) My concern with hormone balancing is that it is a complex subject and I don't get the feeling that the medical community knows enough about what the right #s and balance are. I know some of you have researched way more than I have on this topic and are comfortable with homeopathic drs that you are pursuing this route-which is great. I just wanted to mention my concern and why I think drs aren't making recommendations about treatments. I hope they DO keep learning about hormone functioning and the effect of chemicals in our environment and processed foods on them...
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Hi, Natural Girls~
I've been very natural in my approach to healing....lumpectomy is the only conventional treatment I have had since my dx 2/09. I am a vigorous Budwig follower. But, the pressure to proceed with radiation is getting very intense, both by doctors and family. Would appreciate any of you who would be willing to share your views and/or personal experiences with radiation. Thank you!
Melissa
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Melissa-I was stage one, with wide margins and clear nodes and I did rads. I had emotional meltdowns about it all through treatments. To this day, I wish I had not done it because I have the fear that radiation causes cancer. I still do not understand why they recommend it when there are wide margins and clear nodes. We had quite a debate about this a while back. It got pretty nasty, and the whole thread was taken down. It was sad, because everyone is entitled to make their own decisions. My only advice is do what you feel is right for you and make peace with it. It took me a long time to get over the whole thing, but I have finally made peace with it.
Allie-you are right that doctors do not recommend hormone balance because they do not know anything about. They still site vague studies that are not factual. I finally found a former obgyn who specializes in hormone therapy. She not only knows how to interpret all the hormone tests, she understands how to use BHRT. She goes to seminars all over to learn the latest. She is the one that told me they are doing a lot of research on this now in Europe.
Fairy-I loved Somers' book breakthrough. THAT was another discussion thread that caused a lot of controversy. For some reason people who do not agree with the path we have chosen feel that they need to prove we are wrong. I just feel it is great that we can now discuss these issues without having to defend ourselves. If others do not want to go this route, that is fine with me. I just think it is fair that we can share our experiences with those who do. In the end, no one should make any decisions for us. But we all need to educate ourselve so we make these decisions after much thought.
Rumoret-don't get me started on that whole vaccine thing. The maker of that vacinne stands to make MILLIONS. Mercola even reported that the virus might have been caused intentionally. Go to mercola.com and search H1N1 virus to read all about it. And that Gardisal is even worse. If girls were taught some morals, they would not have to worry about HPV. Okay I will get off my soap box. I can see the yawns.
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AllieM22, you are right, doctors don't know enough about hormone balancing, the reason being is they either can't be bothered or don't have the time to read the research that is there. It is so much easier for them to give us another pill than suggest that MAYBE our hormones are out of whack, once your hormones are out of balance all hell breaks loose, I am not just talking "estrogen" but all of the other hormones that rule our bodies, thyroid, progesterone, testosterone, pregnenolone, DHEA, Melatonin (yup! its a hormone), Cortisol, Insulin, all of these are of major importance for our survival. Neither my Onc nor my OBGYN would test any of these very important hormones, but the naturopath did, now I know what is going on and I can add supplements and modify diet to balance them, they all work together, so you can't just think estrogen, its not the big picture its everything that has to be balanced. I really believe its key, with balanced hormones you don't only reduce your risk of BC you reduce your risk of a host of other diseases too, it all goes hand in hand. This is just my opinion after countless hours of research.
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Melissa,
Did they offer you brachy therapy? I think if I could go back in time, I would today say yes to this. I was offered this procedure but given no time to look into it. Not knowing what I was about to get into with regular radiation method I opted for that instead thinking it would be better because everyone does that. I knew nothing at the time. Check this out and see if your surgeon does this therapy. It will give you another choice:
http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=brachy
Just to highlight the latest findings for older women:
There are several recent studies in which older patients with small, favorable invasive cancers have had a low risk of local relapse when treated with lumpectomy and hormonal therapy without radiation therapy. There is still uncertainty about the long-term results with this approach or about which individuals will do best without radiation therapy. This issue should be discussed in detail with your doctor.
For patients with noninvasive cancer (known as "ductal carcinoma in situ") matters are more complicated. Lumpectomy without radiation works well for many patients. However, there is disagreement on who can be treated safely with just a lumpectomy. This should be discussed in detail with your doctor.
This sentence annoys the heck out me:
" However, there is disagreement on who can be treated safely with just a lumpectomy."
Why don't they know? Follow the women with stage 1, non-invasive and see what happens to those who opt out of radiation. Get a consensus. How hard is this to set up and report? They don't want to know.
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Honestly, I wonder if the reason Dr's don't know enough about hormone balancing is because there is no drug involved. Not so much a slam on them, but all the research seems to revolve around new drugs with patents that will make drug companies money. The $$ seems to be the goal, not a cure.
Am I too jaded?
I did not realize this whole scenario until I was diagnosed with cancer. I think this is probably even true for cancer cures, let alone just hormone balancing. It really just makes me sick.
I don't know what to do about it though...
Spring.
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Radiation provides a very small absolute risk reduction in recurrence in the same breast if the patient is followed five years.
But there is complete aggreement that there is NO OVERALL SURVIVAL VALUE (death all causes) with radiation therapy. And risk of dying sooner from cardiovascular damage INCREASES regardless if the left or right breast was treated.
People don't seem to understand that local recurrence doesn't seem to mean much. Nobody dies of local recurrence. They die of distant mets. That's why we say, ask the doctor about the OVERALL survival statistics.
I see people on this board coming back from their oncs and being told there is a certain percentage"benefit" for this treatment or that. They need to ask, "What do you mean by benefit?"
If he/she answers, treatment X increases disease-free survival or lessens local recurrence then that is meaningless. You only want to know how it is going to improve your survival chances. Don't accept any other statistics. And ask for where the statistic came from-- the actual study.
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Spring,
I'm glad you mentioned that hormone balancing is a whole body approach. More women die of osteoporosis-related events than breast cancer. I'm sure there are many more benefits. We've seen how iodine is a whole-body treatment also, not just the breast or thyroid. Remember Trigeek's psoriasis disappeared as well as her fast pulse.
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anomdenet..question for you..where did you get the information that "there is complete agreement that there is no survival value with radiation". I am not disputing this at all because I truly regret having gone through radiation treatment. I have a friend who is just finishing up chemo and will be going for rads next - she had a heart issue about 6 years ago.0
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I just want to personally thank you all for your comments and contributions on this board. The dialog is an invaluable resource. I find comfort in the postings you all contribute. It is nice to know that I can come here to share in all of your experiences. Many thanks to you all!
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Purple,
You can check the medical journal, the Lancet which did a study of the studies.Lancet 2000;355:1739-1740,1757-1770
or The Manual of Clinical Oncology. I don't have the most current Manual here with me now but I've noticed a trend in each edition towards deleting evidence and stressing treatment guidelines. You can also check the American Cancer Society site. However, I don't recommend calling them because their volunteers are not trained in evidence medicine.
Please note: The evidence reports will say no overal survival (death from all causes) benefit and then the study conclusions and/or clinical guidelines will suggest taking radiotherapy anyway. This is how we know the current practice is not evidence-based but instead is consensus-based.
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Awesome - thanks so much anomdenet
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