natural girls
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Dogsaver,
They have come a long way for treating chemo SE's since the 80's. My gma had it then and did a lot of throwing up. I just finished TAC x6 and I never threw up. They give you some good anti-nasuea meds now. I felt really dizzy for a few days and couldn't stand to do much besides lay on the couch and eat ice cream for a few days. My favorite anti nausea med wasn't from the doctor tho- cannabis helps tremendously IMHO.
I was going to refuse the chemo they wanted me to do- until I had a positive node. For me the biggest thing once I fully understood all the stats on patholgy report was my high (76%) Ki67 score- a measure of cell proliferation. My path report after mast also said I had 10% central necrosis in the tumor (also a measure of fast growth since it outgrew its blood supply). Anyway- a high ki 67 means chemo will work better - since chemo kills cells that are dividing.
so knowing I had an aggressive cancer made me want to go all out and treat aggressive- conventional AND alternative. I had acupuncture after rounds 4 and 5 and I feel it helped me a lot. I didn't have the money to get it after round 6 and I felt worse and had a near fainting episode. A friend of mine also got a colonic on day 3 or so after treatment to help with the constipation the antinausea meds causes.
Dayla
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Hi, ladies. Well, met with the naturapath/holistic doctor yesterday and it was a good consultation. He told me many things that I have always believed to be true, that a lot of the medical issues I've had are pretty much all related in some way. It was a long consult - 1 1/2 hours and he gave me a list of tests he wants to do - hormone levels, etc. bummer was that my insurance will only pay for the partial consult, which was pricey, but not one of the tests or any of the supplements/medicines he will give me (that much I kind of knew). bottom line, with working part time due to furloughs, and at a 15% pay cut, I can't afford to go the healthy route, at least working with a doctor. this really sucks!! the insurance companies will only pay for mainstream doctors, and the drugs that the drug companies make. not if you want to heal your body the natural way. so . . . while I am not quite back to square one, i am disappointed that I can't afford to go with this doctor. I am going to go to our local health food/nutrition store and see if I can discuss some of the things he told me with the supplements specialist, and we made a trip to whole foods last night to get as much organic as we could do, which will help. I guess it's going to be more of the diet / exercise / supplements / follow up with my oncs, but no AI's for me. I am going to ask my pcp, who is a doctor of osteopathy, for a recommendation on a new onc, we don't really like my med onc too much, but the rad onc is terrific - they work as a team, but I don't feel bad about switching at this point. just wish the insurance system would wake up and cover doctors who go outside of the mainstream protocols!
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Chelev, alot of the supplements he recommends can be purchased at whole foods market. As far as insurance, my insurance company told me that if i get a referral from my PCP and a letter from the holistic oncologist justifying medical need, they will consider it. Also what i didnt know til recently is that my insurance offers to pay for up to $750 of complementary medicine which includes chiro, accupunture and naturopath. Im going to give them an estimate of total cost of holistic since it will run past 750 and hope for the best. thx all for the response or whether or not to do chemo. even my holistic onc is saying i need to go through it due to family hx and positive nodes. he loaded me up on stuff for side effects and health. to answer the questions, i had a lumpectomy and lymph dissection (22 total) will not be getting armpit area radiated, just area around tumor with the 5 day internal brachy. I opted out of the external radiation because women ive known have done brachy with no probs and i have to get some reconstruction. due to unfortunate location of tumor, had to lose the nipple. i have a great surgeon, the scar is almost healed and no breast volume was lost, I told a PA the other day that i didnt have a nipple because of a shark attack. it just came out. surgeon calls it a barbie boob haha and when chemo is done ill get a new one a better one
oh and i will be waiting 3 weeks to start chemo after end of radiation. Hope everyone has an easy weekend!! 0 -
I need to know what to ask the doctor to put on my prescription. I told the first oncologist I wanted my hormone levels checked. She put estradiol on the prescription. The 2nd oncologist I went to put estrogen on the prescription. I need to know if it has to be specific. I want to know my Progesterone levels and PTH levels as well as all the estrogen i.e., estrone, estradiol and estriol. Can somebody please advise. I have an appt. Monday with my general surgeon. She's only interested in getting me started on chemo, but I'm going to try and get her to write a prescription. If she wont, I'll go back to the 2nd oncologist I saw. He seemed more helpful.
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Making,
It depends on what your goals and strategy are.
And what your hormone practitioner is aiming for.
If she wants to alter the ratio of estriol to estradiol, you need all the estrogens tested individually.
If she is a "hormone generalist" she will just want your "estrogen(s)" level.
That being said, I don't know if there is any evidence that changing anybody's estrogen ratios has helped them survive longer. The theory is, if you mimic a non breast cancer woman's hormone ratios you will gain some protection. This may be like putting lipstick on a pig.
I'm not for or against estrogen ratio manipulation. If anyone has evidence, would they please post it?
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Dogsaver, thanks - I did find something similar to what the holistic doc was trying to get me to buy in his office, the probiotics, which will help with my IBS issues. I am going to see who my pcp might recommend, because I am interested in finding out my hormone levels as well - just to see if I am right in my thinking that because I've been without ovaries for 10 years, that my levels are fairly low, and thus right in my feeling that AI's are not the end-all, fix-all for me. I actually have the kit here at home, but as I have to send $$ with it, and then I won't get the results, the holistic doc will, that won't really serve my purposes at all.
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Does anybodyhave a copy of this artcile? It's $19.95 to read the full text. I don't have it.The Role of Vitamin D in Breast Cancer Recurrence
Orit C. Freedman, MD, FRCP(C), and Pamela J. Goodwin, MD, MSc, FRCP(C)From the Department of Medical Oncology, Princess Margaret Hospital (O.C.F. and P.J.G.), Mount Sinai Hospital (P.J.G.), and the Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute (P.J.G.), Toronto, Canada
Authors' disclosures of potential conflicts of interest are found at the end of this article.
Address reprint requests to Dr. Pamela J. Goodwin, Mount Sinai Hospital, 1284-600 University Avenue, Toronto, Ontario M5G 1X4, Canada; e-mail: pgoodwin@mtsinai.on.ca
Overview: The inverse association between solar radiation exposure and cancer mortality was identified over 60 years ago, and vitamin D was proposed to be responsible for this correlation almost 30 years ago. Literature regarding breast cancer risk and vitamin D has increased substantially over the past 10 years; however, definitive evidence regarding a causal relationship between vitamin D deficiency and breast cancer risk is still lacking. This article reviews the knowledge to date regarding vitamin D and breast cancer prognosis. In addition, an overview of the biology of vitamin D, as well as a review of sources of vitamin D, preclinical data regarding vitamin D and cancer, and normal ranges of vitamin D in the body will be presented. Finally, given current research controversy, practical clinical recommendations are suggested.
amondenet- personally I think the estrogen/progesterone ratios are somehow relevant. I just don't know how! I've always felt my hormones were off. I thought I had more testosterone than most women. I would get especially horn-doggish right before my periods. I also definately had PMS.
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Are you guys doing a blood, urine or saliva test for your hormones? They all show things a little differently according to my doctor. No matter what test you do, you have a right to a copy, although most labs will send the doctors one to give you, with an interpretation of the results. Make sure you get Vit D tested while you are at it. Also, save all out of pocket expenses, as they may be tax deductable. One of the things we all need to do is fight with our insurance companies more. I am attending a meeting with our company execs in the fall to talk about insurance. I doubt if it will go far, but if I can convince them, by using my own tests, that alternatives make a difference they may eventually look in this direction. These estrogen tests should be standard for women, as they can help warn women before they get cancer. Also I am going to show them my iodine results. The more we speak out, the more likely we can get them to change.
For you gals still going through treatments, remember that nutrition and exercise will help tremendously with side effects. My doctors kept asking me if I was having side effects during rads, but I never had much. I walked after every treatment, and ate an apple on the way home. I never got fatigued and I took omega 3 oil so my skin burning was minimal. I had an open minded radiologist. She said supplements were okay, as long as I did not go overboard.
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Dogsaver--just wanted to mention that the standard of care depends on where you are being treated. I went to a cancer center at a major hospital and my onc recommended that I DON'T have chemo as I am strongly ER/PR+, no node involvement and stage 1. So it isn't something that they are pushing--at least where I went. It sounds like to me that 1) they are really trying to identify the % for whom chemo will help and 2) that chemo and its SEs have really improved and keep improving.
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makingway
Dr. Uzzi Reiss and Dr. Elizabeth Vliet would probably see you as a person who is got so low in estrogen before her period that the progesterone and testosterone dominated causing increased horniness. Vliet is very good in saying in her practice she's found PMS isn't always progesterone deficiency, that in a small percentage of women the estrogen just gets too low.
You can get their books from the library. They have been doing this at least 30 years.
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Thanks amondenet! I will look for the books. I don't have a naturopath. I know they are going to cost me, but if I can find a good one it will be worth it. I'm doing this on my own, so the more info I have the better I can assess which routes to follow.
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I second what anon said. I read both of those books and learned a lot. Dr. V also has a good website.
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deni63. I would love to talk to you more. Please pm me. I'd love to know what you have experienced in your clinic with a naturopath vs traditional. So glad you are here. My only medical experience has been traditional until I met a holistic doctor...have since moved and know no one in my area.
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Makingway,
I just did the saliva test for hormones a week ago and am waiting the results. My Nat. did not say we would be looking at the ratio and the script only said estradiol. I will wait for the results. HOWEVER, she made an important point to me. She said one of the problems with a person just taking the Tamox. as told is that there is a poss. that the cancer patient is actually very deficient in progesterone which makes it appear that they are over the top with estrogen. The bc models assume you are way high in estrogen and therefore the Tamox. will take care of that problem. So I like the fact we are looking to see if I am in fact low in progesterone instead.
Danette
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It is all about balance isn't it? My progesterone was very low, but I am not sure if that is supposed to happen as one heads into menopause anyway, my naturopath doc, wanted to see my progesterone higher as it is protective, she was quite adamant about that! Sad thing is should couldn't "officially" advise me to supplement with topical progesterone, seems like even some naturopaths are afraid to suggest things outside the norm....
L
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Am looking for some good pointers on vitamins or supplements to take, I have my last chemo this week! My diet before was not the greatest, I didn't eat a lot of food, just what I did eat was a lot of carbs, maybe sugar, and meat. I think I may be the worlds pickiest eater, I can only stomach about 1 or 2 vegetables. So I'm hoping to get some suggestions as to what I should take, or ways to sneak those things in.
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If you can just cut way back on carbs, you will be way ahead.
This may be a gradual process but if you can cut out most of the sweets it can be an anti-cancer therapy. Even fruit juices and too much fruit will make your blood sugar spike and cause insulin growth factors which are bad for breast cancer.
I love potatoes and I have just had to go cold turkey. Other people are addicted to wheat. Some to fruits. Once in a while is probably okay or you will go crazy with the don'ts.
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Anom, I don't eat a LOT of fruit, I have to make myself! But I do a lot of juicing, everyday I have broccoli, spinach, kale, parsley (all the greens) freshly juiced, is that ok? or is too much veggie juice bad..ta!
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I'm hooked on berries. I've been eating blueberries almost everyday for the last 3 years. When I found out about antioxidants, that was it for me. A spoon can stand up in my fruit smoothie.
Berries are anti-cancer and lower cholesterol. They're a perfect food.
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anom ~ Your comment on possibly having too much fruit or fruit juice has been on my mind for a day, and I wanted to ask you if you are suggesting eating fewer than 3 or 4 servings a day, which is probably what I have. It just seems like eating seasonally, especially at this time of year, includes so many fresh fruits -- from the berries Rosemary mentioned as being so rich in antioxidants, to melons and cherries and nectarines... It never occured to me that we could eat too much of these vis-a-vis spiking our insulin, etc. Do you think we have to watch how much fresh fruit we eat, within reason? Or were you talking about really excessive amounts? Deanna
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I just started reading Dr. Lee's book "What your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer, as recommended by some of you ladies on here. So far, it's pretty interesting. Will let everyone know what I think when I get further through it. Tomorrow I may ask my Onc what he thinks about this whole estrogen/progesterone thing and am curious to hear his response.
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When I have fruit smoothies, I always put cinnamon in it as it helps to balance insulin levels. In fact I take a cinnamon supplement whenever I eat fruit, for the same reason. Cinnamon is a great antioxidant, and cheap, so use it to your hearts content-just do not use it as an excuse to eat more sugar. Nuts are good to have with fruit for the same reason.
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I also take cinnamon twice a day, in pill supplement, to battle the insulin spikes. I love fruit. Berries are particularly good in terms of cancer fighting properties, and some berries, like cherries and raspberries actually are good for us.
I just feel with everything else I've eliminated or cut way back on, I can't ditch fruit!!!
Though, I have heard some people argue for this, b/c of the sugar. (But what would be left!!!???)Spring.
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I agree, Spring! I love fruit - especially the berries and all the ripe peaches and melons. Fruits and veggies are my primary foods - and I've been working really hard to cut back processed foods (almost eliminated) and sugars, with the exception of sweetening coffee and iced tea. Passing up desserts unless it's healthy (fruit again!) or have been walking to keep my husband off the ice cream. Picking up DIMension 3 today from the naturapath I saw last week. Next week will pick up the Oncogenics, which is pill form of broccoli sprouts that he is recommending. Meeting with a new medical onc in two weeks, I want to find one I really like and after the last appt with my current med onc and his comments, I'm over it and hoping this female onc who specializes in breast cancer, will be a better fit for me.
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Chelev, just wanted to share -- for sweetening coffee adn iced tea, I use packets of Stevia. I find in the vitamin section of Wal-Mart. It is a natural herb, no calories, no insulin! I also use Agave nectar (sort of like honey, but again, less insulin spikes) for baking and drizzle a tad over "too tart" fruit.
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Thanks, Spring. I've been using Stevia for a couple of months - once I started learning about the sugar = bad for cancer stuff. Haven't tried agave, but I've seen it in the store - I'll give it a try too!
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Normally, I'd see those posts about sweetening up tea, and pop right in to tell you about the research against doing that. This time, I've decided it really isn't my business, we have to live and so what if the sugars block the nutrients? This has nothing to do with me. So I'm not going to say one word about it. There, I feel better that I didn't say anything. Who do I think I am anyway?
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lol!!!
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Rosemary, you are cracking us up!!! LOL!!!
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Oh come on now Rosemary, don't you know that that sweet tea is what makes those southern gals so sweet. We yankee's prefer that sour lemon stuff. So what does that say about us. Oh, I know you say you are a Texan, but I know where your heart is. Besides, Texas is not really the south. Texas is just TEXAS.
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