Arthritis vs. Bone Mets
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Damn! I thought somebody here would know Barbe! 'Cause I sure don't!
Thank God, I'm not a moron..............I think
Sheila.
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Remember, we're morons together!!! We 'get it' when no one else does...so surely someone will get 'this' cause we sure don't!!
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Aussie, it sounds like they are not sure what they are seeing so want to do the comparisons with past scans to rule out the possibility of anything new other than the two that lit up. I'd take this a good news rather than a nothing news.........but there again, I'm always an optimist!
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But see Chrissy, that's the point. Shouldn't they KNOW by looking at the scan? What if someone didn't have a PREVIOUS scan to compare??? So those of us getting first time scans, how do they know it's not mets? It all seems like such a guessing game....sigh.
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When they need to do a comparison, they are seeing something but that just might be the machine or a skin fold etc but to see if it's a progression, they need to have the older films side by side with the new to go over them with a magnifying glass to really check out what may or may not be the problem area.
You are right Barbe, a lot of this is purely guess work but if two or more pairs of eyes are available I think I'd use them rather than one.
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Fingers crossed, Chrissy, you're right!
Just when you think someone knows all there is to know about you, health wise, they chop your knees out from under you.
None of these Drs know much about anything outside their own speciality, so they have to have some sort of get-togethers with the other specialists to discuss all aspects of your treatment protocol. Suffering cancer 'by committee' I think they call it.
Barbe, from what I've seen of some of these scans, the picture quality is as bad as a Drs handwriting! I'm surprised they can see anything at all.
Sheila.
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I understand the need for a comparison, I just don't know what they do when they don't have one to compare with. I guess they make you wait a year and then re-scan to see if there's a difference....?
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Barbe, I think you'd find that they would do a rescan in either 3 or 6 months if they are unsure of something and they have no comparison films. The Radiologists that read these scans etc are very well trained and if you do nothing else in your day, you will soon learn what is normal and what is not and they do sometimes see things that the ordinary doc do not......that is why the odinary doc gets a written report and anything that is not normal but not anything else recognisable is written up as suspicious.
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Barbe, I do have CT scans fairly often, 6 monthly if needed, but the MRI's only when the CT shows something different to the last one.
Chrissy, wouldn't it be easier if they sent the films through to the Oncs a.s.a.p so they could get a second opinion closer to home? I was carting this huge envelope full of X-ray/scan films back and forth to the hospital for the first 18 months until I realised the Onc never looked at them. They can put them on a disc or email them to the appropriate Dr easier than I can carry them. I got a huge carry bag for the MRI films and disc with the radiology clinic logo plastered all over it this time to add to the mountain of older ones I am keeping...........for what, I don't know.
Sheila.
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Aussie, that's exactly what they do here is SA, email the report and the doc has access to the pics through the net. I'm pretty sure that is Australia wide now and would have thought your docs would have the same thing. Yeah, I get you on the mountain of scans and xrays that I keep too. Periodically, I go through them and throw out what is older that eighteen months as I figure they are yesterdays news.....lol
Love n hugs. Chrissy
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I just found this thread and find it so interesting because I have had that same question. I have been having a terrible pain in my left hip for several months now. My pain Dr said it is arthritis caused from rads, my BS wanted an X-ray so did that and they show nothing. Pain Dr looked at films and even though nothing shows he still thinks it is arthritis. Oh by the way I am 49 and no family history of arthritis. So MO says could be arthiritis from rads or tamox he is not really sure which. I take 200mg of Celebrex twice a day and still have pain in the evening or wake up at night with pain sometimes. Sometimes in the evening I break down and take a Lortab not often but at times. So I started hearing about bone scans and wonder why no one has wanted to do it. I See my pain Dr. and MO both in October and I am going to ask them about it if the pain continues which I have no reason to believe it is going away. I would just really like for someone to give me a definitive answer about my pain. I have seriously thought about taking a tamoxifen holiday just to see if it is the medication. The only thing that holds me back is I had such bad SE's at first I can't think of going through that again.
also the question about doing biopsies of the bone. My Dad has lung mets and when it came back it came to is posteria rib cage. They did do a biopsy to make sure what they were dealing with. But it does seem now that they won't do any more biopsies, he does not have any more lesions in his bones just in his lungs and there are too many to chance a collapsed lung. But I wonder some of you did not get a biopsy when it hit in your bones and I wonder why.
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Sherry, when my bone mets were found it was very obvious that they were mets so a biopsy was not neccessary as they were very large. I can see where a biopsy may be neccessary if the spots were small and widely dispersed or just a few as they could look like something else.
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Barbe..no problem. I'd like my story to get out. Although I have this cloud of doubt always hanging over my head it does illustrate how different radiologists and different scans can present conflicting results. And even worse, a wrong diagnosis totally alters the treatment you recieve if you have bone mets..ie usually no chemo. Always get a second opinion.For some of you having odd pains that have no explanation you might want to see a rheumatologist as it could be fibromyalgia. I was diagnosed with fibro at age 33.0
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So, I had my appointment this morning with my primary physician for the back pain. He took a couple of x-rays and did draw blood to test my Vit D levels. He confirmed my suspicion that the Dexamethasone that I had through my Taxol treatment can be very depleating on the bones. He told me to go ahead and start the Vit D supplements because we live in Michigan and most everyone here is deficient in Vit D!
My x-rays showed a mild compression of the disk between my L4 and L5 vertebrae and he thinks that's what's causing all of the pain. So he gave me a prescription for Vimovo, which is just a prescription strength NSAID, gave me a list of back exercises and told me to loose weight. Lol, I already know to do all of these things but working out when you are in so much pain, well you know how that goes! But at least I have an answer to my back problem with the compressed disk. So now to try the NSAID and the Vit D to see if we can get the pain down enough so that I actually feel like working out!
Just thought I'd give everyone an update on what the doc said!
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Well, that's all good bad news Holly. It still hurts!!!
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Lol, Barbe, you're absolutely right!
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Phew Holly! At least you know what it is now and perhaps you can get some relief with the NSAID. Do you take any other supp? things like magnesium and calcium? They actually work symbiotically with the Vit D in the blood stream to help build health bone. Just for your info.
Love n hugs. Chrissy
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I can't seem to win this week, I just start to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and I grow an egg on my face!
There I was last night, sitting here as usual while, unbeknownst to me, something took up residence under my left ear and inflated my cheek/ear/neck to a golf ball sized lump. No pain in teeth, jaw, throat only the lump itself when touched, wouldn't you know,I sleep on that side. Tossing up between GP or hospital today, GP won and hasn't got a clue what it is. Thinks it might be infected Parotid (I thought he said Carotid at first) gland or saliva pathway to ear. After showing me pics on Google of both things, he put me on anti-biotics and wrote me an Ultra-sound request if the 2 x a-b scripts don't work. Fingers crossed the a/b's work, I don't want my face carved up along with my chest.
Sheila.
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Awe Aussie, it seems it never rains but it pours for you lately! Here's hoping it just an infection in the salivary gland and the anti B's send it packing!
No news from your doc yet? Gosh they sure are taking their own sweet time! ((((((Hugs))))))
Love n hugs. Chrissy
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{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Sheila, a hug hard enough to pop the cyst!! }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} My ex-DH used to get them behind his ear, but they stayed behind his ear, just a huge lump. Had to be excised. He may still get them, I don't know and I don't care!
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All hugs and wishes gratefully accepted ladies. After just one anti-b, the lump seems to be subsiding, will keep my fingers crossed all night that another pill will see it off.
No news yet Chrissy, could take a week or more for things to start moving along.
It's funny, but my GP, always asks me if I am a nurse as I can rattle off all the names of my meds with their job descriptions (eg; Bondronat = biphosphonate) after them. I have to be careful though, as he assumes I know what he is talking about sometimes, when I can hardly understand his Indian/English accent.
Sheila.
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Sheila, I get asked a lot if I'm a nurse (I SHOULD say I'm a doctor!) because I can throw the jargon and 'long words' back a them. But I've learned to say 'I'm in the industry'. What do I do? I'm a patient!!!!
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I noticed that most of us complained of hip pain. I was fine until three weeks after my oophorectomy, then suddenly I started getting strange left hip pain. Not much but it was present all the time. When I saw my onc he said most likely bursitis. I took some Naproxen and got relief but pain was still coming and going. Now, two months after it started is gone. I never started taking AI after oophorectomy so pain was not related to medications. Maybe it was related to sudden lack of estrogen and my body needed to adjust to it.
I am taking Vit D but I was taking it before, too.
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Nikola, I'd go with the bursitis. Bursitis is the inflamation of connective tissue in the joints which causes it to develop a fluid pocket. It is the pressure that this fluid pocket creates as well as the inflamation that can cause joint pain.........and it can appear and disappear with out warning as well as stay for quite sometime. I deal with it in my shoulders and hips all the time and yes it can be very painful!
Love n hugs. Chrissy
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chrissyb - No actually he didn't mention either of those. Thank you so much for pointing those out! How much do you usually take? He told me to take 2,000 units of the Vit D a day for 5 days a week. My husband's a nurse (he often has paitients on Vit D) so I asked him that was right and he said it sounded good. Lol, I love my husband but he works in a LTAC so most of his paitients aren't talking, eating or breathing on their own and what's right for them isn't necessarily right for me. So I'm not always convinced when he tells me something.
AussieSheila - All I can say is wow, I am so sorry that you have more to deal with!!!! Hoping it goes away very soon and lots of hugs!
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I take 5,000 UI a day of Vit D3 LIQUID. I hear that's the one to do. Calcium at the time helps the Vit D get absorbed in the body so I have it with my cereal.
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Hi Barbe, thanks so much for the input!! Lol, I wish I would have seen it before I bought the 2,000 UI gel capsules. I guess I'll start with these and when they are gone I'll grab the higher dose and see if I can find it in a liquid. I bought some calcium supplements too since I know I don't get enough milk in my diet, figured it couldn't hurt! DH told me to look into the safe Magnesium levels first just to err on caution. Now if they only made a vitamin to control puppies I'd be a happy girl today!
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Holly, I take at the moment 4000iu p/day of the D3 but depending on my blood levels that can go up or down. I have it tested every three months to keep tabs on it as it has been known to go from very good to almost nil for me. I don't take calcium as I have an abundance always in my blood but I do take magnesium every day. An easy way to tell with the dasge of magnesium is, if you take too much, it will give you loose bowel motions. If that happend, just cut back until you find the level where everythng returns to normal. Magnesuim is often used as an anti-constipation med.
Love n hugs. Chrissy
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Thanks for the info Chrissyb! Especially on the magnesium. After the incident I had earlier after trying the new NSAID I should probably hold off on it until I get used to this. My almost accident might turn into an absolute messy accident, lol! It apparently did NOT agree with my stomach even with taking it right after I ate. 0
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I' just came across this older bco thread while googling the difference between arthritis and bone mets. At the end of my (3 month) oncologist appointment last Friday, she asked me if I had pain anywhere. I said my lower back and that it was probably nothing more than arthritis. She asked me where I felt the pain. I showed her the area right above the tailbone. I said it was pretty constant, more like an ache in the day, and at night it can keep me awake. I figured it was degenerative pain due to aging. I do not have joint problems or noticable arthritis other than lower back pain. She asked a few more questions and then said she's ordering a bone scan. I did not asked for a bone scan. I would be shock if it was more than arthritis. The only cancer treatment I've had is surgeries, and 5 months of Herceptin, but was taken off due to it's toxicity to my heart. I do not have joint pain. Other than supplements, I only take thyroid meds so I don't believe my lower back pain is due to cancer treatment or meds. There is so many things it could be.
My problem here is do I want to subject myself to take radioactive material if it's not warranted. The idea that I have to drink several glasses of water to get rid of it scares me. What if some of it stays in my system? Can it cause cancer? My bone scan is scedule for this coming Tuesday. I have to decide by tomorrow if I want to cancel it.
The question I have what does bone pain feel like? Isn't cancer pain real severe? Can cancer pain be a ache. Yes, mine is constant, always there, but can that also be true for arthritis pain? I've had it for a few months. Would an X-ray with less radioactive material be just as good?
Anyone else have just lower back pain and it was proven just to be arthirits?
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