Root canals and breast cancer
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More on miserable dental work: get all the deep cleanings done too. I actually went regularly and didn't get the care I should have been getting.
Three years and $20k later, I finally have everything done. And my gums are finally healthy.
One more thing about root canals. Not everyone is a good candidate for dental implants. I was lucky, and even with good bone/jaw structure, they had to augment with synthetic bone. Because I didn't have thick enough bone to my sinus cavity.
Out of pocket for getting my mouth redone was approximately 3x out of pocket for BC treatment.
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What is the Gerson institute proposing their patients do with their teeth that had root canals? Extract with no replacement? It sounds like malpractice. The American Dental Association loves them I am sure! I am guessing there is no "real" research to back this topic. I have been going to dental meetings for 14 years and this has not been a topic. Be careful what you believe and find out if it is true by calling the research dental facilities. The dental schools have them and they are quite accessible. If this is a true concern for them, they are researching it.
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Just had #31 extracted yesterday instead of trying a root canal. #30 with root canal and apicoectomy and still infected was extracted last Dec after (my PS and I believe) causing 4 of my 7 breast surgeries. We believe the ongoing infection in the tooth caused recurring infections in my breast reconstruction. As soon as it was removed and healed....we replaced the TE and no more infections. I could have tried another root canal...but now I have no root canals and only one remaining crown. If it goes bad, I will extract it also as it is next to the back on the opposite lower side. You can't see the gaps when I smile as they are too far back. I have not yet decided whether I will have implants....although I did have bone grafts, the first of which has healed beautifully....so that I can have implants if I want. First I want to find out if they make a tiny denture that I can put in and out. I was thinking if they do I could wear it a lot just to support the upper two teeth to keep them from dropping. ANYONE know anything about this????
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For those of you who may not be on the Natural Girls thread (where this topic has also had some discussion), I'd posted there that I am using something called Super Echinacea, an herbal extract, to see if it improves the area about which I have a concern, and which I personally question is even a root issue.
Something called oil pulling has also been recommended to me, but I haven't tried it yet. If you don't know what it is and are interested, there's a link on Natural Girls.
Also, a book called Cure Tooth Decay by Ramiel Nagel was recommended to me. And the same person told me that a very respected local dentist is well-educated in holistic tx, although he doesn't advertise same. I think I'll make an appointment with him for a second opinion because I've also been told that opinions about the need for a root canal can vary from dentist to dentist.
Luna, sorry to hear about the extraction and your previous problems. I don't know the answer to your question, but I think kellyj will. Hopefully, she'll see it, or you might want to PM her. Deanna
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Luna5,
I've been doing a lot of research lately regarding whether or not I should keep the teeth in my mouth that have had root canals and crowns that are at least 19 years old (total of 11). There's also an infection in a tooth that has a crown but no root canal (the infection keeps releasing through the gum) and there are infections showing on my x-rays of some of the teeth with root canals. It's a long story as to why I've had to have so much work done. Obviously it's a big decision to choose to have so many teeth extracted or to have the root canals redone with EndoCal (which is now being recommended by some holistic dentists....not all though!) Anyway, as I was in the process of doing my research tonight I stumbled onto this forum and felt compelled to join in order to share with you what I've researched about dental implants. From what I've read titanium is NOT good. The jury is out on zirconium. I'm leaning toward getting some sort of appliance (either dentures or a partial...depending on whether or not I decide to keep the two upper teeth that have not had root canals and if the one that has an infection can be saved. I would have to replace the crowns with metal in them though....ugggh!) I haven't been diagnosed with anything too serious (had a hyper thyroid for a few years, then it normalized but I was later told that I had an autoimmune thyroid...now it seems to fluctuate and my temperature runs low suggesting that I'm leaning toward a hypo thyroid) but my immune system has definitely been compromised...for years I was struggling to stay well. I'm a singer and can't afford to not have my voice. I'm also a caregiver to my mom. She had a stroke and has been living with me since '04....so I need to be well for her! Luckily I found a good naturopath who's helped me a great deal and I obtained a magnetic resonance wellness device called the MRS2000+designo. It's been incredible at keeping the dental infections at bay along with keeping me well enough to have not missed a performance since I got the machine. If anyone here is interested in the MRS here's my facebook page link with info on it http://www.facebook.com/pages/MRS2000-AUSTIN-TX/108791342499505. It's been known to help in oxygenating the blood along with helping people with their health in so many ways! It's also a natural analgesic...it's been so beneficial to me and to my cousin who's dealing with HIV and is able to lead a very productive and busy life without getting sick due to having a machine. I'm also a caregiver to my mom who had a stroke and need to be healthy for her as she lives with me now. Sorry I got off on a tangent sharing about my life....this feels like a place where you can do this....especially if it might help someone else!
I'm also concerned with the materials they'll use in making the dental appliance since it will be in my mouth for the rest of my life. You might want to take that into consideration too, Luna5!
I hope some of what I've written here has been helpful to you too, Deanna! I'd be interested in knowing what you ultimately decide to do and wish you great success with it! I'll keep you posted on what I decide to do.
Glad to have found this forum!
Thank you, Lisa
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Hey Luna,
You should have a partial denture made to keep your Maxillary teeth from supererupting. You can take it in and out. Although, you want to make your decision on your implants sooner than later, as to not loose the bone that your Dr. has recently grafted. The teeth in your mouth maintain your bone height, without them the bone will become "shorter and narrow" over time . More like a pointy ridge than and broad flat one. Good luck on your decision!!
Kelly
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...interesting thread...I have an incipient root canal brewing as we speak...maybe it's just a cavity,but doubt it.
I had one but not on the cancer side. The opposite side. My oncologist and my oral surgeon said no connection, but this is a very interesting topic.
My PS said, no pre RX needed for a root canal either, unless you have a heart condition or mitral valve prolapse, altho if the root canal is very infected, he might prescribe something.
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I've read about the connection before, and I have one root canal - right side - same as my breast cancer. I want to get it OUT! If my teeth start failing, I will end up looking like a toothless bum, rather than getting another root canal or an implant! I did get all my fillings replaced 2 years ago. I had to - one day I was brushing my teeth and 2 teeth had turned blue and my gums underneath them were blue. 1/4 of my mouth was blue because of mercury leaking! Skeptical people will tell you that's a myth, but I slam them down real fast with that one!
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In doing research on the possible relationship between major dental work and cancer it became clear that it is discussed on many web sites with overly generalized statements and obscure references to clinics that feel it is an issue. I put together a web survey to help formally collect responses in the hopes of bringing clarity to the issue. Please forward this survey link to the various cancer discussion forums to increase the number of responses and improve the statistical significance of the survey.
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Hello,
I had three root canals extracted 4/2009. Two of the teeth had abscess on them and it took 2 months for the holes to close up there was sooooooo much infection. The breast cancer cleared within 3 months after that and has not come back! If anyone has anything cynical to say, save it because I will not reply.....
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This is an interesting thread. I have been hearing more about this lately on other forums and such. I had a 2 root canals about 1.5 yrs before I was dx with BC. One of the root canals went fine but one has always given me problems( 4 yrs now). Every couple months the gum will swell a little and I get an awful smell when I floss around it. I don't have gum disease and they've said it's not infected. Does make you scratch your head.
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Just caught up on everyone's advice and comments...Thanks so much! Still trying to decide about the implant. Had the other tooth extracted. Have a temporary partial (kind of like a retainer with teeth) ...doesn't fit as tight as a denture so affects my talking...so I mostly wear it at night....until I decide about one or two implants....know I need to decide soon because of the possibility of bone loss.
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(Okay, I'm back.)
Please help! A new BCO member named "Dental" started a thread called "Root canal" over on the "Just Diagnosed" forum. He/she (no indication of which) has been asking questions about meridians and root canals and breast cancer, and has asked whether he/she should have a suspect tooth pulled. Because of what a couple people have posted today, Dental is now really excited about the possibility of an acupuncture meridian that links a tooth with an area of breast tissue. (I think.)
I am way out of my league on this. I've suggested to Dental that he/she come over here to the "Alternative Therapy" or "Complementary Therapy" forums for more advice about the topic and to share thoughts with others who support the meridian/root canal/BC stuff. I can't offer any more than I already have, but Dental appears to want to continue the conversation.
If anyone here is inclined, could you send a PM to Dental or wander over to the "Root canal" thread on the "Just Diagnosed" forum and help him/her out? Thanks.
otter
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Haven't read all the posts yet, but just wanted to add that I never have had a root canal and I got cancer. Also no history of breast cancer in my family and I nursed for six years (that's supposed to help PREVENT breast cancer)..never smoke, never drank also....
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Never had a root canal, but I still got it.
I did have a crown on my left side that I have replaced a few times - and it is on the same side as the cancer....
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I think the meridian concept is interesting but my inner engineer wonders if there is any statistical information. How many people get RTCs in their life? I have no idea. (though I thought I'd read that by age 50, 1/2 the population in the US has lost at least one tooth). Since 1:8 women get BC, that's such a large portion of the population and it seems like it must include some patients who needed RTCs or other dental work. And one "risk factor" of getting BC is aging. i.e. the older you get, the more likely you'll get BC. Seems the same for dental issues as well. Plus, tumors take years to grow before they are detected, so if I got an RTC last year, it couldn't have created a new tumor this year. Anyway, I'm not saying it's not possible but I wouldn't know how to isolate that one factor (among other issues like genetic, exposure to environmental toxins, etc)
FWIW, last week I went to talk on using acupuncture to help reduce SEs of cancer Tx. The lecturer said that in some cases, the meridians are on the opposite side of the body. His example, if you have a bad right knee, he would do acupuncture on your left elbow. He talked about points in the ear, feet and hands, and how they map to other parts of the body, but didn't mention the jaw. But if that theory is true, it seems like you might be able to do acupuncture to your foot, hand or ear to offset any bad chi related to the RTC.
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Thanks for asking about this Deanna. I just saw something similar in a video I watched the other day.
I have one crown and no root canals.
What are the other options in case you are told you need a root canal? Just get the tooth pulled out?
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I just finished reading about this in "Knockout". One of the doctors, Galitzer, that was interviewed mentioned it and said that when you clean out the root it is impossible to get all of the infection out, so some of it stays and gets into the system. There was a study done in Switzerland, and of one hundred breast cancer patients, ninety six of them had root canals. Go figure.
I have always had problems with my teeth, periodontal disease, and have been warned over and over that if I don't take care of it, the infection can cause heart problems if it gets into my system, so I guess that is the same theory with regard to breast cancer.
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I had a root canal (early teens) in my 1st molar (upper jaw). For some reason, the dentist never capped it. Over time, it began to turn black and chip off so two years prior to my bc diagnosis, I had it crowned. After hearing about the possible connection on a thread here, I read a book called Root Canal Cover-Up by George Meinig, DDS, FACD. He is actually one of the founders of the Association of Endodontists (Root Canal Specialists), yet based on what he has since learned, he is against them. His book is based on the work of Dr Weston Price and it convinced me to have my root canal tooth removed. It was infected even though the x-ray said all was well. The root looked like it had black and white "tumors" growing on it (sorry...gross). Before...I had post nasal drip....after.... it's all but gone.
Dlb823, I would highly recommend you read this book before making any decisions. You can get a preview at Amazon.com.
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I just noticed that "Dental's" thread ("Root canal") has been moved from the "Just Diagnosed" forum to the "Alternative Therapy" forum.
otter
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impositive - what did you do with your tooth area after you had the tooth removed? Do you just have a gap there, or do you get some other sort of appliance?
Thanks for sharing the info from that book. I am going to look that up.
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Springtime, It is not visible so I just left a gap. My dentist said my other options were an implant, a bridge or we could consult an orthodontist to see if he could "move" some teeth forward. I was leary of an implant. I just didn't want an unknown metal inserted in my jawbone. The dentist said with a bridge, he has to cut into the enamel of the teeth on each side and it could compromise those teeth. The latter option of moving teeth seemed like a long and expensive process...so I chose to leave the gap.
I haven't read Dr Weston Price's book but I read somewhere that he says these ailments are reversible with diet. He did studies on certain groups of people. I need to put his book on my list of books to read!
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Thanks, Impositive.
Doesn't sound like a lot of good options! My mom had this dental appliance thing, she sort of slipped it in and out, I think it hooked around another tooth partially. I wonder if that is an option. The gap -- Did the dentist mention the other teeth were at risk of shifting around if you had a gap?
Thanks for the info!
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Yes, not a lot of options, sadly. I was very glad the tooth was in the back of my mouth! You're mom's dental appliance sounds like the "bridge" that the dentist explained to me... so that could be a possible option. He did mention the gap and said my teeth will certainly shift. I had a tooth pulled years ago on the opposite side and my teeth have shifted somewhat but not enough to cause any problems so I'm happy with my decision. If it had been a more visible tooth, I would likely have made a different decision.
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Thank you for all the info!
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This is so interesting, I wanted to add this. I had a cleaning before chemo, and teeth/gums were fine. I have had lots of work done in the past, root canal, and two crowns. Dentist said everything was stable, no problem. BUT when I had my bone scan, no cancer, but DENTAL DISEASE! I am seeing my dentist this month, will keep you posted on that. IF you have had bone scans, make sure you ask for your reports, the arthritis also showed that was starting in my knees! Of course this was of no concern to my mo, so we just celebrated at the no cancer. If teeth and bc are related, why aren't men having the same risk/diagnosis.
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I wonder if men are indeed having problems, just not in their breasts. Dr Weston's research pointed to microbes in the dead teeth (root canal). He said it wasn't the microbes necessarily but the toxins they put off that wreaks havoc on our immune systems.
Just speculating....Perhaps those microbes feed on our hormones such as estrogen and progesterone which is why we see more auto-immune disease and hormone related cancers in women than in men,
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I am female, in rads now with my breast cancer treatment, had some teeth pulled during that, got antibiotics, and was tired for a while. But now I'm fine and mouth is fine, still in rads. BUT get this, just a few months before I found out I had breast cancer, I had a terrible infected couple of teeth that had to be pulled, and the free dental clinic did NOT give me antibiotic, I was so upset with them. Anyhow, I felt swelling in my under-chin lymph node on left side, then believe it or not, it went into my underarm lymph nodes on left side. My left shoulder was killing me, and I put on some of this "Icey Hot" cream, and some got under my arm, and I had a terrible burning. Well, it sort of settled down, I wound up with an adenopathy that slowly subsided in the armpit, and then I was diagnosed with cancer in the breast on the left side where the infected teeth were pulled and got into my lymphs.
So, eventually I asked my cancer doc if there was any connection with my infection and getting breast cancer, and he said no, most decidedly. Now, the more recent pulling of some teeth that hurt, I could not do it during chemo, cancer doc said to wait until sometime after chemo and then surgery to get my dental work done (I guess because immunity is down). So, once I got into rads good, I got those painful teeth pulled at last, and this time I did get an antibiotic. I felt very tired for a couple weeks, but then I was okay. I figured to myself better to get it done whilst still in treatment, just in case some breast cancer cells were affected by my dental work, still being superstitious and not 100 percent convinced with the doc saying dental stuff wouldn't cause my cancer, and assuming rads would zap out any dental disease influence.
So, that's my story on dental infection (not root canal) and my breast cancer. However, I think it would be really hard to make a connection because, first, my cancer doc works with several colleagues in a national cancer clinic, so he's plenty qualified, and second, so many women get breast cancer and so many people in general get dental work done, that the odds are some sort of dental work is going to be involved in a goodly percentage of BC people.
It's kind of like they always say after a big car accident on TV, that alcohol was involved. Well, I think to myself, with something like 80 percent or more of people drinkers, whether moderate or alcoholic, pretty much most wrecks will have alcohol involved! I feel that same way about any connection with dental infection and cancer.
NOBODY knows what triggers cancer, so for sure dental work falls in the same category as injury or smoking or pork causing it. And even with my own experience of painful infection being within inches of my soon-to-be diagnosed breast cancer, I believe what my doctor said, that it didn't have anything to do with my cancer. Some people have breast cancer growing in them for years, too, so of course they'll have dentals all along in there. No, it would take a bonafide trial, and then more trials, before any recommendations could be made about perhaps a perfect antibiotic that would prevent the spread of dental infections in the body, which I know nothing about as to how well those drugs work in general with infection, even if they decided it's connected.
It's an interesting topic, and could be there are some researchers working the problem right now, but so far, my doc wouldn't have said dental isn't connected to cancer unless he was for sure positive from the current results on any studies out there about it. And I know, this thread is about root canal, not necessarily all dental infections, but it's just I had such a vivid connection with my armpit infection that I had to put in my two cents here. Sorry I went on about it for so long, but wanted to contribute all the logic I had on the issue.
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Hi dogeyed, your story is very interesting. My cancer was on the opposite side as my root canal but I'm not sure if that matters. I tend to think they are related but even if not, I think that any chronic infection that your body is fighting is going suppress your immune system and certainly cant help when cancer cells rear their ugly heads. They say everyone has cancer cells circulating but for some reason, we dont all fight them off. I dont know if just a root canal or infection can cause cancer but if a number of other issues are in place, like stress, poor diet, etc., it can create the perfect environment. I know in my case, I was fighting my root canal infection for years (the dentist said from the looks of things, it had been there for a long time.) I had started a new business and wasn't getting sleep and I was MAJORLY stressed not to mention we ate fast food on a regular basis.
I guess no one knows why everyone with rc's dont end up with cancer but perhaps it's because their bodies haven't been overwhelmed to the point that cancer cells can overcome their immune systems.
Sounds like you have a great relationship with your doc and trust him wholeheartedly. Me...not so much, unfortunately. They're so busy taking care of us, I just dont think they have enough time to read all those studies so they're not entirely informed.
Dr Weston Price's research with rabbits showed some pretty convincing evidence regarding the microbes in rc teeth. He would remove them from the human who had cancer, auto-immune disease, etc and embed them under the skin of the rabbit. A great majority of the time, the rabbit would end up with the same disease symptoms as the human. I'm not sure why researchers aren't really looking at Dr Price's work.
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IMPOSITIVE, I like your thinking, and Dr. Price's, on the idea of infection microbes having something to do wtih cancer, and if you put on top of that a weakened area from smoking, injury, or stress, you got an opportunity for cancer to take off. Maybe it's a particular microbe, which maybe is like the ones in severe dental infections, and maybe other infections, that researchers could narrow down which one is connected to cancer. Also, somehow hormones play a part, since for example ER-positive people like me have that in their cancers and it supposedly contributes to their growth, which if they compared how particular infection microbes coupled with hormones might make a fundamental change in our body chemistry, altho there are some who are all negative with hormones and get cancer. But I'm thinking it still might help direct their research. I've emailed to research places once before concerning fungus, how cancer sort of acts like that, but since then I think I read more about funguses and realized they are not particularly as similar as I first thought. I wish they'd do some surveys of a bunch of suspect lifestyle items or ongoing illness we cancer people have in common. Food for thought! GG
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