A place to talk death and dying issues
Comments
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Bless you for posting that, Nel.
Tomorrow we go and purchase the niche for my urn.
I REFUSE to do chemo til the end. When I go on to hospice, I want at least a couple of weeks where I don't have to deal with it, cuz by then, it'll be all I can do just to manage the pain.
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Here I am doing my lame Vanna White impression in the mausoleum as I select my urn's final resting place in a stand-free perpetual wall. Now that this is done, I can work on my POLST (physician’s orders for life sustaining treatments), but I want to hold off on that a bit. Lots of people buy their plots early as a hedge against inflation, so I don't feel weird about paying the down payment, but the POLST is a different situation. It just seems so FINAL...like I'm about to give up, and I'm not. My husband knows my wishes, and the Dr's know I'm stage 4. I prefer to wait a few more months.
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Vanna/Lita,
This photo blows my mind and makes me smile.
You are amazing--- practical and spirited, and an inspiration to all of us who haven't gotten quite so far in our planning.
Serious question: Is that see-through or mirrored glass on the wall? I've never seen anything like it in a columbariium, but then I live (for the time being, at least) on the East Coast!
Tina
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It's weird glass...from an angle, it looks mirrored, but when u stand in front of it, it's see thru.
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Lita, I imagine you feel a sense of relief to have a number of your end of life wishes taken care of. With that perpetual wall, see thru, does that mean then that your urn is on display? That seems like a nice idea.
Dh and I will have our cremains buried in the same plot. And speaking of that, I am feeling much better about getting our cemetery marker (notice I didn't say headstone, tho). I kind of thought as I got busy with life I would be able to put it into perpective, and that's what has happened. I have since visited four cemeteries to see the stones and there is quite the variety, so I find it actually rather interesting. I am in no way obssessed with death and hope to be around many more years. But I always have found cemeteries to be pretty places, remembering as a child visiting a few while adults planted flowers. It was always peaceful. And this time of year, spring, they are very beautiful.
One reason I had anxiety about the cemetery marker is because I felt something was missing. We did not want any religious carving, no cross or praying hands. The flower engravings they showed us seemed to funerally. So we went without them. I absolutely love flowers, have a yard full of them and am named after one, but you know what I mean about funerally. It was that feeling I didn't like. But, when I was sent the proof of what the stone would look like, I changed my mind and asked for a small flower to be carved on the upper right and left of it. Of course, they sent back an idea that was overly floriferous. This proceeded into a back and forth email over several weeks with the dealer on different ideas to finally arrive at what both dh and I like, something simple and elegant. Without the flower etching, the marker looked too impersonal and cold. Getting it to how I envisioned is what helped me feel much better about it and the dealer was very patient and understanding thru the process.
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Divine....that's Great! One less thing to worry about.
You can breathe a sigh of relief.
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It makes me feel relief that this detail is something that will not fall into my son's lap.
And I like the flower that I selected. It is a dogwood flower with three leaves. Dh and I love the dogwoods and have one growing in the front yard. The first rendition they sent me of the floral design made the flower look like it resembled a cross since it has four petals, and the way it was positioned. I cut off most of the swirly leaves and repositioned the flower, tilting it so the petals werent up and down and across. Now it looks like a flower. Simple and pretty
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ok...my post is gone again....ill keep trying but now im getting my threads mixed up.....patience....i know.....hit submit now.....doing better than i thought, i think...lol....oh ladies im really needing some big time suppoort right now.....i just really didnt want to loose my mind,.....or my art....maybe a brain injury will bring more beauty...you never know....keep shining bright!!!!!
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Nan...sending virtual support, (((hugs))) and prayers your way.
Hang tough, my dear,
Lita
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Nan, sending support and gentle hugs.
Btw, this site has been acting up. In the past week I've received two error notices while posting. And ofte the submitting process is quite slow. You may be clicking off before the process is done.
Anyway, hang on!!! And keep doing your art! What do you do?
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thanks....this is such a strange feeling...you know something is going so very wrong and you really think they can fix it....i think now that i shouldnt be thinking this way...toook me a long time huh....well i guess i really do think there is hope cuz this could just stop tomorrow....there is nothing that says it cant so, i guess ill be back to denial again...lol
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I'm pretty sure this is the site where I got the recommendation for the book The Five Invitations. It was wonderful. It's about life and death. I usually sell or give away books I read. This one I will keep and read again.
Thanks to whoever recommended it!
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I'm reading the Five Invitations also, based on a recommendation here. I have to say, living with stage iv bc for 6+ years, I am basically already living life with these five concepts, having arrived at the same conclusions by reading numerous other books with similar topics and developing my own personal philosophy and coping skills. Still, I like the book very much and it is good to be reminded of how to ive mindfully.
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I loved the section near the end about the Japanese death poems.
I also loved the reminder of how sacred everything is.
My search is for how to help my loved ones through this. How to prepare them. I wish I had read this book before my dad died a few years ago. But recommending this book to my kids might upset them- at least initially. Not sure.
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just a heart felt hug and smile for my cyber friends/travelers...i have more tests ordered....we'll see then where this journey goes or for how long.....wishing you all a pain free night and wonderful mothers day morning.....thank you for being here...
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Just read about Powers Boothe's passing on Sunday morning, May 14.
Bums me out. I really enjoyed his powerful, nuanced performances. Handsome, classy, and blessed with a marvellous voice, he played Cy Tolliver on Deadwood, along side Ian McShane's Al Swearengin.
Powers died in his sleep, they say. He was 68 and would have turned 69 on June 1. I wonder if he had sleep apnea or something. Could have been a heart attack or massive stroke. Don't know if they'll do an autopsy or not. My prayers go out to his wife Pam and his 2 children. Pam was his college sweetheart. They were married for 47 years....very rare by show biz standards.
Well, dear friends, we'll just never know what'll end up happening to us, will we?
If I'm lucky, I'll die in my sleep, too, but that's not likely to happen. It'll be hospice and VROFF for me (Voluntary Refusal of Food and Fluids). DWD is not completely off the table, but I may not be able to swallow all the damn pills when the time comes. Gonna go to a seminar on it next month. What I plan to ask is why can't we just get a syringe with the meds in it and give ourselves a simple injection? If one's liver mets are acting up, one can have a lot of nausea and might barf the pills back up. I have liver mets and I don't want that to be me.
So tomorrow I get the results from my Pet scan on Monday. I'm not anxious at all. The progression or stabilization of Mr. Cancer is in God's hands. I'm grateful for the 13 months I've already had since being dx'd right from the gate with Stage 4. Twenty years ago, I would probably already be dead by now.
My thanks and deep appreciation to all the brave patients who participated in the drug trials for meds that are now giving us several more months.
So RIP, my dear Mr. Boothe. I'll see you in Heaven when I get there.
Love, Lita
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Lita, in the movie Grumpy Old Men, a great movie btw as was the sequel, the two main characters discuss death in a round about way that makes you know that at their age, how the end will be is something they've thought about. A couple of their exchanges:
John: Did you hear about Eddie Hicks?
Max: Hypothermia's a bitch. It ain't quick like a stroke.
John: A stroke's no damn good; you could end up a vegetable! Give me a cardiac any day.
Max: You know what Jacob said? Jacob said that old Billy Henchel was killed in a car crash. Head on collision with a freight truck. Cleared his car straight over the bridge into the Mississippi.
John: Lucky bastard.
Max: You bet.
.............................................
John: He's dead.
Max: What? Who?
John: Chuck!
Max: Chuck? How?
John: Last night in his sleep. His sleep.
Max: Lucky bastard.
.
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Thanks, Divine. I haven't seen that film yet. I'll have to look for it.
I hope we're all "lucky bastards" in the end.
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Lita, it is one of my favorite movies from the 90s. It is a romantic comedy, despite the above dialog! It stars Waler Mathau and Jack Lemmon along with Ann Margaret, Darryl Hannah and a wonderfully memorable Burgess Merideth. The sequel, "Grumpier Old Men" introduces a new character played by Sophia Loren. Both really good movies, well acted, well written and worth watching!
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Btw, Powers Booth was a handsome old devil, wasn't he? I watched the show Nashville for several seasons and he played the coniving politcal dad of the main character, Raina. I remember him from several made for tv movies as well, always left an impression onme.
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my prayers now include us all being "lucky bastards"......lita, im going for a pet on monday and im feeling very ....meh ...about it too.....i too feel blessed by the time i got since dx and thank all those who made that possible.....i just find it hard to believe its gonna end i guess until it really does....
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Lita and Nan, hoping for good results from the scans.
Have been dealing with mbc for six+ years and am grateful for the time to unfold as it has. The first couple years I was very frazzled, although after the initial shock, I still managed to have some very good days. I have some end of life decisions made, but I am not worried about making *all* of them. Dh and I agreed we both wanted cremated with ashes buried in same plot, not scattered. We have a plot and have a headstone ordered. We have health care directives updated. We need to update our executor on our will as it was made years ago, when our son was a child. He is an adult now so I feel okay to give him that title.
Over the past year, I have also given our house a pretty good decluttering. That is one thing that I am relieved to complete. I am organized and have lots of storage space, which meant I was keeping too much unnecessary stuff even tho it looked nice and tidy! Room by room, a bit at a time, dh and I went thru deciding what to keep, what to toss, what to donate and what to sell, having just completed a large yard sale. It feels pretty good. Dh, coming from a different perspective, has a bit more trouble parting with things. He acted like I was Cruella DeVille, heartlessly casting away our memories. In the end, he sees that what we kept is the nice, more meaningful stuff without the unnecessary stuff junking it up. The man is somewhat spoiled, has a nice garage, fishing boat, music room, exercise room. Why did he need to hold on to that old sleeping bag we'll never use again? And so, so many more items like that which are from previous stages of our lives. But, in the end, he did pretty good and I am satisfied with what we were able to discard.
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divine mrs M.....i have to ask because you look so much like her....could you really be Bette? I'll just pretend you are...lol....every time you post
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Ha, ha, no, my name is Camille and sadly, I never developed any musical talent. In my younger years, I was told I looked a bit like Bette. People have also compared me to Mariah Carey, Reba McIntyre's character "Reba" on her tv show, Lisa Simpson the cartoon character and Smurfette.
Truth be told, if I had a screen name to pick over again, I would refer to myself as "tough moe-foe" or something of that nature. Lol I sure didnt feel tough when I started on these boards, just scared out of my mind. So, I've come a long way.......
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Reframing the reality of "death and dying..."
I've lost more than a couple of dear people in the last month. In order to keep it from REALLY bumming me out, I have decided to reframe the concept of death since none of us Stage 4 gals know exactly how much time we have left.
I received the news of progression last week. It's real, inescapable. The chemo is only barely containing the spread, and I'll be moving on to another treatment soon. How long will that one work? I don't know.
My body is winding down. ALL OF OUR BODIES WILL WIND DOWN, whether we have cancer or not.
We are in the process of TRANSITIONING to another form of spiritual existence. Our spiritual essence is NOT dying, only our bodies. We are like caterpillars, and we will wake up as eternal butterflies...whether in Heaven or on another Astral plane in a parallel universe.
If you're an aetheist and believe that life ends completely when you die, good for you. But that doesn't work for me. If there is nothing to look forward to, no reward, then what is all this suffering for? Might as well get a gun and blow your brains out now. Why continue?
So I'm focusing on the positive, uplifting aspects of transitioning, and if I only get a few more months, that's ok. If I get a couple more years, even better. It's all good.
I have to frame it that way or I'll turn into one of those roly poly bugs that gets stepped on.
I hope I see some butterflies this weekend.
Lita
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Lita, I'm so sorry that you have more progression. I follow your posts.
And of course the Divine MrsM. It seems even though we decluttered, got rid of 2 storage rentals, I'm still over run with stuff! Then of course as soon as I make another donation box...I think, now where is that glue gun. Told my husband this fall we have to venture into the attic
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Lita,
I agree with your attitude of transitioning and I'm at peace with that.
The part that makes me really worry is my loved ones. Preparing them (my children are grown and grandkids range in age from 7 to 26.). I worry about how to help them through it. The death of my mom, dad, and stepmom all varied so much. I was fortunate to be at my dad's bedside. The book Five Invitations ( which I learned about here) has helped. I wish I had read it before my dad died. But, I hesitate to recommend it to my kids- as it might be too depressing. And I worry about my DH of course.
Oh, more to reflect upon.
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Lita, I know we don't run in the same threads but I find you inspiring, witty and I love your pictures. I am sorry to hear of your progression but you seem to be realistic but focusing on what you can control.
I feel much the same, each day is a gift, should I get extra time great. I need qol for that. If not, I am OK with whatever happens next.
I will continue to send my thoughts your way and will follow as long as possible.
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I found this photo/essay compelling and touching. Perhaps someone else will as well:
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Lita, I know it must have been very unsettling for you to have received the news of progression. Your perspective, in which you apply meaning to your situation from your belief system and focus on positive aspects of living, sounds gratitude-filled and potentially grounding. I hope it has held you in good stead. I appreciate your genuineness and willingness to explore this phase of life with openness and curiosity.
I was taken aback when you wrote, "If you're an aetheist and believe that life ends completely when you die, good for you. But that doesn't work for me. If there is nothing to look forward to, no reward, then what is all this suffering for? Might as well get a gun and blow your brains out now. Why continue?" I was unsettled by the violent imagery of "blowing one's brains out," as I can't imagine that most, if not all, of us who contemplate maintaining dignity and peacefulness throughout the dying process, would choose that end. I also thought it might be helpful for you to hear from someone like me, who has nontraditional "spiritual" beliefs, based on my understanding of nature and physics, and who does not believe there will be a reward per se in the afterlife. My belief system revolves around the theory that my energy will become once again a part of the cosmic energy from which I was introduced into this world AND the idea that life on this planet and its interconnections are so precious and abundant that we are given many, many ways in which to find meaning, even in, and sometimes especially during, times in which our intense "suffering" is present. I should add that in my hospice work over many years I found that both people who aligned themselves with Christian faith traditions and those who called themselves "atheists" found ways of making meaning and finding fulfillment in the here and now as they moved toward death.
Kaption, I also have been thinking about your comments regarding The Five Invitations (Frank Ostaseski), particularly how you found it to be helpful, wished you might have read it before a loved one's death, and feared that recommending it to your children might cause them to be distressed or depressed. Have you considered the possibility that your children might find it as helpful as you think you would have found it as you prepared for your loved one's death? I know that parents often wish to spare their children discomfort and to protect them, but sometimes experiencing discomfort over very genuinely real circumstances can contribute to more meaningful conversations and interactions which ultimately may lead to deeper connection and peace of mind and heart at the end of life, for all involved. When I worked with families in hospice, I often witnessed the person who was dying trying to protect loved ones by not sharing openly their experiences (thoughts, feelings, beliefs, concerns, changes in functioning, etc.) as well as their loved ones trying to protect the person who was dying by not sharing openly their own experiences. That sort of "dance," as I called it, often left everyone out of rhythm and distanced from one another, depriving them all of deeper connection. When I provided bereavement services to families for months after a loved one's death, it was not uncommon for me to hear, "I wish we had talked more openly about dying and death, what that phase of life meant to [my loved one] and to our family, about our real experience." So, I encourage you to consider the possibility that sharing the Ostaseski book and talking openly about end of life issues might actually ground your family at a time that grounding and deeply connecting would be incredibly helpful.
I wish I could be more present to this conversation on a regular basis but health issues challenge me to prioritize and reprioritize every day. I still consider it meaningful to be a part of this conversation as I am able. In lovingkindness always....
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