A place to talk death and dying issues
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Runor,Saw this today...reminded me of you...
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Lita, I love the Ramones and this is one of my faves. Rock on.
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Just want to share this song title is HOME by the GAITHER VOCAL BAND
Home is where the heart is, my heart's own home.
Though I never really had one to call my own.
I've been given a key by the Carpenter of Galilee. With interest paid the title's made to me.
Corus
Home, where there is no night. Home, where the Son is the light.
The place I've been dreaming of so long. Loved ones there to welcome me.
But His sweet face will be the first I see .When my journey's over I am going home.
Everybody dreams of going home it seems.Lately I am no exception to the rule.
But home is so much more than windows, walls and doors. Its a warm embrace and smiling faces awaiting you.
Chorus
Home, where is there is no night Home, where the Son is the light .
The place I've been dreaming of so long. Loved ones there to welcome me.
But His sweet face will be the first I see. When my journey's over I am going home.
Repeat Chorus.
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JANETMARA - Beautiful....
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Hi everyone,
Palliative sedation is similar to what hospice call "Continuous Care" where a LVN is present 24 hours a day to provide care and give MORPHINE liquid under the tongue to control pain and provides easy breathing when death is imminent and makes death peaceful and comfortable,patient will just go to sleep.(no grimacing seen in the face,like one had a hard time transitioning to death).Doctor does not need to be there, (but during the hospice days,DOCTOR also visits) this is a routine practice of hospice care team whenever death is fast approaching.
A chaplain also visits regularly and after death.
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Janet, thanks for sharing that song. It's lovely.
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I live in a town of about 5,000 residents. It's not my home town but I've lived here on the same street for 30 years and I've gotten to know a lot of the folks here over that time. We were devastated that within the last year and a half, tragedy struck a vibrant, well loved couple from town. Although the wife, age 48, survived a brain aneurism, she is bed ridden and will need 24 hour care the rest of her life. Her husband, age 56, learned six months after her aneurism that he had stage iv colon cancer and was dead eight months later, in January of this year. A neighbor on our street who retired two years ago died in his sleep a couple months ago and last week, another neighbor walking into his house suffered cardiac arrest on his front porch and passed away. And the husband of a woman I worked with also died suddenly last week. All of this death around me of people I’ve known and loved in my community leaves me so sad.
It's never lost on me that these people had no forewarning that their lives would soon be over or forever changed. It's so devastating to their loved ones. I sure didnt want mbc, but concede that dh and I are more aware of life's fragility than maybe the average person whose health appears okay. It's forced us to discuss and take care of some end of life matters and there's some comfort knowing some of the more difficult tasks are already taken care of. I hate that it had to be this way yet can appreciate that life can unfold in this manner.
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Mrs M, I'm sorry that you've been through so much loss. It must have been so difficult!! You have done really well to learn wisdom and get prepared for what may happen in the future.
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Divine M, I am sorry to hear this. It rattles a person for sure. I think much is in place for my death but this reminds me to check again. Hugs to you.
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Since my dx I've being doing a review of my life. I know that cancer won't kill me soon, even if my MO decide that I'm in stage IV. But it doesn't mean that another thing won't do it. I'm sorry about aneurism woman and her husband, but the other ones... honestly that seems a blessed death to me. I'm just expressing myself, of course I respect what Divine thinks but I'm not so brave
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Altho I pray the Lord will take me quickly, I realize I CAN'T tell Him how or when to take me.
He'll take me in His own timing...not mine. I figure He wants me here a little longer to "teach" people, especially those WITHOUT cancer that if they think their lives are crappy, it could always be worse.
I can't think of anything worse than a death sentence like st 4 metastatic cancer, except the loss of a spouse or child.
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Tho unfortunate to be diagnosed with mbc, I've been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to move forward with life for eight years so far since diagnosis. And I'm grateful to take care of some things so my loved ones have less decisions to make while in the throes of grief. Having talks about my final wishes so they aren't bereft thinking, “I never asked! I don't know what she would have wanted!" Being able to declutter my house, take care of some home improvements, make some lasting memories. Addressing these matters is a comfort to me because I can do what's in my power now to ease the grief of my loved ones later. That doesn't often happen when one's life is cut short in the blink of an eye,
Designing our headstone was a very, very different and unusual experience. But in doing so, I realized how much it meant to me for it to be personalized to my specifications. Nothing over-floral-y or funeral-y feeling or religious with crosses and praying hands. Simple upright gray concrete on pedestal. When loved ones visit the grave, yes, they will be sad but visually, the stone reflects who dh and I are, and visitors will read “Always in our hearts” and hopefully find comfort in that. This isn’t probably something I would have done were it not for mbc. Yes, I’d rather not have mbc, but since that’s the reality, there are some things where I can overcome a certain level of discomfort and take care of.
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DivineMrsM. You write beautifully.
I have also taken care of end of life details and have taken advantage of my time feeling good to enjoy my life. Sadly, this dx has given me the gift of awareness and I have chosen not put off anything that is important to me.
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Urn for ashes...CHECK
Niche at the mausoleum....CHECK
Memorial directions and obituary....CHECK
Beneficiaries for policies, annuities and accounts updated....CHECK
Only thing left to do now is review my trust and will. DD is over 25 now, and doesn't need a guardian, so we can revise all that. We've found a new attorney 'cuz the other one seemed a little "flakey" to me If I go in the middle of the night, best case scenario, I can still rest in peace as DH can take care of it.
Yep, get this stuff out of the way b4 the mind goes.
L
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Interesting article, marijen!
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Thanks Mrs Devine. Here’s another one that I hope is not too disturbing.
https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/
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Marijen, I'm surprised because I've beeing thinking a lot about death since my dx and I've arrivated to the same conclusion that the writter mencioned in the article about the potassium chlorure injection. He is a doctor so he knows about the better kind of suicide.. If he chooses the injection, it could be the better way. Just in case
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Talking about DEATH and DYING is a scary thing to me but it is inevitable,we all will reach this stage in HIS TIME.
Every time I read about their desires,emotions,wishes and preparations,my tears just fall from my eyes.
Lita--you have outlined it well,that's what I will do in the next weeks.Thank you
DivineM-So sorry to hear this ,it's so heartbreaking.
YNDORIAN-- I haven't heard much about doctor's suicide when they choose it but YES, Potassium intravenously administered at high doses can cause irregular heartbeats and eventually cause cardiac arrest and immediate death.(High potassium doses taken orally is not as deadly as IV). I also heard of another doctor who injected an air( about 60ml ) into his wife's vein and caused her death,because she was suffering too much.This is just informational and not an encouragement to induce death to oneself.
Marijen--found these articles very interesting indeed.
My friends, I know we have not wasted our lives,never wandered and though most of us spent working and taking care of loved ones,but I just want to share this song that I listen to everyday and want it played during my funeral.
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(Next posts cross posted in the steam room for anger where death with dignity was being discussed.)
I found some very specific info on a website by an organization called Death With Dignity. For instance about the process of taking the medication:
Preparing and Ingesting the MedicationThe most frequently prescribed medicine is a large dose of a sleeping medication, most commonly a barbiturate, in powder form. It is mixed with about 4 ounces of liquid before you, the person for whom it is prescribed, drink it. The full amount needs to be ingested within two minutes. Because the medication has a rather bitter taste, have a small glass of a delicious tasting liquid handy to cleanse your palate after drinking the entire amount of life-ending medication. Most patients fall asleep peacefully about 10 minutes after drinking the life ending medication, and die in 1-3 hours. In about 5 percent of patients, it takes longer than 6 hours to die, but they sleep comfortably the whole time, until death ensues.
I'm pretty sure I could not drink 4 ounces of a very bitter liquid in 2 minutes. I have trouble swallowing all my pills. This is not the great option it is purported to be. Disappointing. Oh, and it is not even legal in my state.
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Here is what Death With Dignity says about cost:
Cost varies based on medication type and availability as well as the protocol used (additional medications must be consumed prior to the lethal medications at an extra cost). The following are only estimates as prices and availability change. The actual prescription depends on the physician's assessment.
Pentobarbital in liquid form cost about $500 until about 2012, when the price rose to between $15,000 and $25,000. The price increase was caused by the European Union's ban on exports to the US because of the drug being used in capital punishment, a practice that is illegal and deemed deplorable there; many international pharmaceutical companies don't export the drug to the United States for the same reason. Users then switched to the powdered form, which cost between $400 and $500.
The dose of secobarbital (brand name Seconal) prescribed under death with dignity laws costs $3,000 to $5,000.
Due to the increase in the cost of Seconal, alternate mixtures of medications has been developed by physicians in Washington state. The phenobarbital/chloral hydrate/morphine sulfate mix produces a lethal dose that is similar in effect to Seconal. The cost of this alternate mix is approximately $450 to $500. A second alternative, consisting of morphine sulfate, Propranolol (Inderal), Diazepam (Valium), Digoxin and a buffer suspension costs about $600. A compounding pharmacy will need to prepare each mixture.
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Link stolen from Frisky on the Fenben thread:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/well/live/cancer-treatment-at-the-end-of-life.html
The NYT will try to get you to create an account but you don't have to to read the article.
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Interesting article, Jaycee. It came at the right time for me. I keep thinking about just this topic.
I just got a call ( the fifth on this week) telling me I may have cancer and they can find it. Of course I didn't pick up. I’ve progressed recently and I am starting chemo soon. I tried to talk to my husband about “ how do I decide it’s enough?” He’s says it’s up to me. A big improvement when he said “ you’ll be fine”
I feel pretty good now and have all my children and grandchildren coming to the beach for 2 weeks. I want to enjoy every minute but my mo says I need to start before. I’ve just finished rads for weakened pelvis and leg. My children are all over the country so this is a very rare opportunity to discuss end of life with them. I’ve read and thought and worried over this. Maybe even prayed. But I dont know what to say or do. I’m not on deaths door now but this chemo will weaken me and my already rotten immune system.
I’m afraid it will come so fast now I won’t “ finish” what I need to do. Of course I haven’t even started the important stuff but I washed my windows and changed my curtains today. Why? Because I don’t want to organize my papers, write goodbye letters or write to my baby grandchildren. I am nuts I know but it made me happy for a while. I almost forgot. Maybe I need to do that for myself. Forget for a couple of hours each day.
Good wishes to all
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Maire67- I hope that you can put all your energy into creating happy memories with your children and rest of family.
Have you read Being Mortal yet? it helped me think about this for myself. I still don't know if I will know when to quit etc- I'm not near this point as far as I know. Seems like things do turn on dime though.
I was at a party this weekend and someone told me that his friend just died of a heart attack on the tennis court. I said "I would like to die that way. "(he was horrified) on the other hand DH said-"then you'll have to take up tennis "
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Nkb, Being Mortal. Excellent. Also When Breath Becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi.
You both live in death with dignity states. Even though the process is not ideal, I would be happier if I lived in one. My problem is getting from here to there. We're all saying we're not there yet but how much suffering will happen in between. I'm no good at suffering. I actually stink at it. I quit chemo after two cycles.
Maire, don't let your MO decide for you. If you want to wait until after your family thing, you should wait. I would. But, of course, see above.
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Jaycee, I'm getting close to being there. Believe me you will know when you've had enough and it's time to quit.
Taking a chemo vacation per MO, and if I haven't gained any strength and the other SEs haven't improved, it will be time to start thinking about hospice. I will talk to my family, but it's ultimately my decision as to when to start.
Prayers for you all.
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Lita I think about you often and I hope you get some much needed rest from your chemo vacation. It can’t be an easy to think about but it’s definitely the elephant in the room when discussing treatments. I hope the heat hasn’t been bad for you and you are able to enjoy yourself. Hugs to you! 🤗
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That's the thing, Lita. I have already had enough. I feel basically ok but can barely walk probably due to MS but who knows. Not me. I feel semi-crappy all the time. I'm not interested in the suffering that comes next.
It just seems to me that your family is holding you back ... your obligation to them to hang on for as long as possible. They don't understand what you are going through and they need to. How to accomplish that? I have no idea. I'm sure you have tried.
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I want to donate my body to science (medical school). It's more complicated than you think. Big surprise. Program at UNM Albuquerque looks good but somewhere in the text is a statement saying they only accept from within a 60 mile radius. I'm 222 miles from Albuquerque. You also must die in NM so my next option of El Paso, TX (yes, THAT El Paso) is probably out because they would want me to die in TX. I guess I need to ask MO. There is a branch of UNM Med School here. (If you still want to donate from outside the 60 miles radius, you have to pay for transportation. I wonder what that costs.) I thought this would be easy. Yeah, right.
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New to this thread. Been in the boards for a long time but now fallen into that probable 3-6 mo window (if I'm lucky). Lots of stuff going on in this body. Excruciating back pain from infiltrated spine Mets and marrow, brain lesions, liver issues, etc... losing battle yet still Things to try to make me comfortable a little longer....mostly for my kids (18 and 22). Not sure how far I'm willing to take it...but I do need to ease my back pain for sure.
Anyway. I'll be following along.
Sunset
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