Why Im Not Doing Chemo
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ma111, hope you are doing ok!, how are things going
...i really dont know alot about alternative medicines!!..hardly anything..i have just spent the last year researching my disease..and trying to come up with the best plan. There are alot of very informed and educated women on this forum, i am just trying to get a clear picture of the big picture..i have actually lost my way at the moment!, as you can probably tell from my disillusioned post on the previous page. But i continue to strive for hope, and if nothing else, a quality of life that fits with my philosophy of life. I hope your life is going ok without chemo, im glad you are walking 
I admire impositive and the other enthusiastic women here who are exploring all options
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thats-life,
I progressed on the vaccine with chemo and moving on. Have an appointment with my local onc tomorrow to see what to do next. There is a vaccine only trail that I am elibable for that I might try. They suggested 1 month of chemo first to reduce tumor burden. The IBC went to the other breast and some nodes are larger. Haven't had a pet/ct yet.
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Hi Eve: Do what you think is best for you. I, too, wonder why my immune system not kicking in and helping with my latest progression and/or new primary. Anyway, you have to do what you think is right for you and make informed decisions. I do wish there were more clinical studies especially in IV vitamin C therapy. I look forward to your posts. I've had traditional medicine to treat my bc since 2000, including surgery, chemo, radiation, and hormonal therapy. And, here I am struggling with progression and/or new primary which as yet to be determined. Keep searching and push on to make decisions you are comfortable with.
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Thank you Jean. I' hate that you are struggling with progression. Have you tried alternative therapies? Impositve is on DMSO. I'm not sure, but understand it is a natural chemo without the side effects. You should check it out.
Someone said that most of the problems we have stem from the gut. A naturalpath dr I met recently confirmed that as well. I have a suspection that my liver isn't healthy...probably need to detox. Not sure how or how I'm going to do it. I'll check with my naturalpathic doctor. I have a gut feeling if the liver and the gut is doing well so well my immune system.
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ma111...you're advance stage and you've refused chemo? How are you doing? What kind of alternative treatment are you doing?
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thatslife...you have been such an inspiration to all of us. I love that you are open and at least accepting of us who don't follow "standard" protocol. Impositive is blazing the trail us for all of us. I'm looking to her and wornoutmom in see how the alternative treatment works for them.
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Been feeling a bit sick over the last 48 hours from tumor die-off (they tell me.) Just logged in here and I'm really happy with the way your thread is progressing Eve. It's so good to see everyone dicussing options without taking "sides". There is no real answer with cancer so it's "to each his own" in this journey. I just wanted to say thank you guys, you have made me feel a little better. I will definitely let you all know how this goes for me. So far it seems to be having it's promised effect.
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have you been advised to drink heaps of water impositive?, are you doing this at home or at the clinic?...what have they suggested to help with elimination of debris/cell die off?...im thinking of you! 0
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thats-life-, Yes, they provide Kangen Water by the gallon at the clinic. They want me to try to work up to a gallon a day. Haven't made it there yet but I'm working on it.
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Impositive...I drink Kangen water... but, don't drink it with your meals, or an hour before or after eating. You need your stomach to be acid when you're eating to break down your foods to get the vitamins you need. As said by a naturalpath doc.
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Thanks eve. That but it makes sense. I have been trying to drink as much as possible but I guess I will refrain around mealtime.
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eveberry,
I refused chemo in the exchange for the ability to walk and be able to care for self. Sometimes it is the chemo, not the disease that can disable us. I am soon to go onto a less toxic one and my new onc said no more taxenes for me. I went on a vaccine study and they had me on a taxene, (Taxotere), with it, which is killing my kidneys. I don't want to end up on dialysis. My total protein is also low and dropping because I cannot eat very many hard to digest foods, which is the protein group. Even the liquid protein things bother the stomach. I was on Taxotere my 1st round round with Carboplatin, which stopped working after the 3rd treatment as I could feel the nodes getting larger. I had chemo before surgery.
After a month or so of the milder chemo to reduce tumor burden, I might go on a different vaccine trail that does not have chemo with it. IBC, ER- and being HER+ is an aggressive cancer that builds an immunity to chemo.
I still manage to make it to work about 3 days a weeks sometimes 4.
I really don't do alternative medicine much, but do have a pharmacy in my purse.
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Eveberry, I know you did not start this topic to be controversial, but there are always those who want to jump in and tell you that you are wrong.....however, this thread seems to be doing OK for the most part and I am not about to upset the apple cart because in truth I do not think there is a right or a wrong way to treat cancer and the way we deal with it is our choice. The threads where there are almost wars going on always intrigued me and I find myself thinking Wow, don't these people have bigger fish to fry? and the nastiness that comes out on a support board....amazing!
I have been doing this a long time.....had my mastectomy in 1990 and did fine (or so I thought) for years, but in 98 was diagnosed as Stage lV with mets to my sternum, lung and liver. I did hormonal treatments for many years with huge success before moving onto chemo. Out of the 6 ( I think it's 6, but it may have been more) I have done over the past four years, only one was really successful and I chose to stop that because of the SEs.....although I will admit that compared to the SEs many have had, I seem to have been extremely fortunate. At no point in time have I ever been bedridden or so ill that I was not able to get around to do things and I have worked the entire time.
I am still able to work and am enjoying life although right now am off treatment and that makes me extremely nervous since I know from the scans and my outrageous tumor markers (6,444.3 at last count) things are progressing and they seem to be progressing rapidly. I was always told my breast cancer was slow growing, but I think it has changed. So far as alternatives, that just isn't my bag. I do not follow any particular diet unless I am trying to lose weight which is not too often these days, and I don't even take vitamins other than when I think I am getting a cold and then I load up on VItamin C . I don't drink much alcohol, but that is only because I lost my taste for it after chemo.....however, believe me I really had more than my share of drunken partying days and I do not think my lifestyle had a thing to do with me developing breast cancer. It just happened....don't think there was anything I could have done to prevent it and do not think there is much I can do now to keep it from progressing, but I am going to try.
I wish you the very best, Eve.....all of you for that matter. The way we chose to deal with this is an individual choice and the way the cancer responds is just as individual......just because a treatment works for one person, does not mean it will work for another. If I truly thought tree bark was going to put me into remission, I would be out there eating it, but I just happen to be a believer in modern medicine. How many SEs I am willing to put up with is the question at this point, but I do still want to try. Perhaps alternative methods work for some of you, but at this stage of the game, I feel I am way beyond that and we are all entitled to our own views. Impositive is so correct in saying it's "to each his own". If there was one answer that worked, we wouldn't be on these threads and cancer would just be a a bad memory. Marybe
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Marybe ... you impress the hell out of me! Just wanted you and everyone else to know!
Good luck Eve with whatever you decide to do!!
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Marybe
"Perhaps alternative methods work for some of you, but at this stage of the game, I feel I am way beyond that .."
Your words broke my heart and I hate to think that anyone would feel that way. There are soooo many people taking up arms with "alternatives" all over the world right now, having been told by their conventional doctors that they had exhausted all of their options and who have been successful in turning their lives around.
This woman is a real inspiration to me. Her book is on my long wish list.
"Marlene Marcello KcKenna
Given less than a year to live, a macrobiotic diet changes everything - the results include not just a long life, but a new life.
Marlene is celebrating 24 years from her terminal prognosis. She continues to be cancer-free and very active"
http://www.veria.com/marlene-marcello-kckenna-against-malignant-melanoma.html
So much hope can be found from so many sources Marybe, it's actually overwhelming. Please take a look, for instance, at this NCI CAM trial
I figure anything being seriously investigated as either treatment and/or prevention is worth incorporating in my own protocol, the list is endless !http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/vegetables-sun-soup/HealthProfessional/Page5#Section_24
more at http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/results?protocolsearchid=8075456&vers=1
I really hope I was able to pass on a flicker of enthusiasm to you
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I think I have mentined this before, but maybe not on this thread. I have a friend who was diagnosed with Myesthenia Gravis about 15 years ago. She struggled with the the disease and conventional treatments for years and almost lost her battle several times. Finally she and her husband decided to begin following a vegan diet and doing all kinds of meditation, yoga, tia chi and qgong. Currently her disease is completely in remission and her conventonal doctor has released her, saying there is nothing he can offer her that is better than what she is currently doing. She looks wonderful and is living a happy healthy quality life. She made me a believer in holistic healing.
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Impositive: Good to hear from you. Glad that you are feeling that the treatment is doing its job.
Sending you lots of prayers and positive healing energy!
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We stage IV women have a different set of decisions to make. We choose chemo or other drugs to extend life in intervals of time before our cancer becomes resistant to each treatment. We buy time in a tangible way....But the cancer cells that survive a treatment mutate again, and multiply, and are often, unfortunately, a stronger force to deal with. Thanks medici, for reminding us that there are trials of natural therapies in the works, along with trials of old chemo combinations, and new targeted therapies. And for reminding me to keep focused. I love the idea of change. I love the idea of embracing meditation, qi gong, tai chi..diet kaara.. What a nice way to live. If our cancer is incurable (for stage IV) by oncology medicine, then why not try to reverse the process of cancer with food. etc? I really dont get the resistance to it.
Please. if nothing else evie, and whoever may be interested..read the book 'The emporer of all Maladies' by Siddhartha Mukherjee. Written by an oncologist in the US. I borrrowed it from the library, so cost shouldnt be an issue. It is a very important history of cancer and oncology. It had me standing outside in the backyard crying for the many thousands of women who have lost their lives in the name of experimentation and modern medicine, even in the last 20 years. Some, if not many of the chemotherapy treatments women with BC were subjected to were experimental to say the least, a whim, a dosage guessing game, or a chemical experiment of a man in a small room in a hospital somewhere, and a dismal failure. there has been so much suffering and disappointment, all in the name of science. We have hindsight. with that we have choice. We are just as likely to survive the average number of years of our prognosis if we do chemo, or if we dont. It is no more experimental to try the brassica powder trial you posted evie, than it is to try a new combination of the chemo drugs invented in the 60's and 70's that we are still offered. I have come to this unfortunate realisation. If we die after trying an alternative treatment, after living for a few years trying and changing our lifestyle,...the alternative treatment will be blamed. If we die after a few years of rigorous toxic therapy, the cancer will be blamed. Not the treatment, not the docs....Trust in the medical/oncology world is maybe not something we should do without an understanding that our disease is not curable as yet. and without an understanding of how treatments are presented to us in a standard format that gives the impression that the treatment is a worthwhile risk. side effects are downplayed, deaths are noted as just a percentage.
Evie, i dont know what its like to be at an earlier stage, where the goal is the best chance of a cure...the elusive cure...my support is all i can offer, along with my belief that you need to look at what is offered to you with very open eyes, and ask alot of questions!..whether its an alt treatment option, or a conventional one. Herceptin has lifted survival numbers over the last few years (probably not much change in survival for HER2neg BC) and diet has been proven to reduce the risk of recurrence for ealier stage triple negs ...Pray for the newer drugs that target cancer pathways...they look very promising...but chemo?..well...
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Maybe, I was touched by what you shared. I've had a few friends who have had similiar bc journeys. I hope you beat the cancer beast...I really do.
Medici, your words are full of hope. Thank you. I will check out the links you posted.
Ma...tough fight you've been through. Praying for you!
that's life your words are always full of thought, wisdom and grace. Write a book on your big C journey. It would be interesting because you are open to both sides, wise, because your not persuaded by popular opinion, but truth. You are a truthseeker. I love that you can see beyond chemo and support those who choose other wise.
Kaara,princess and impositive, alaska angel medici ...thanks for your encouraement, links and wisdom.
You are all awesome...
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That's-life-, I found that book (Emperor) at the Library as well. I ended up selecting a different one but I will definitely read it based on your recommendation. I am currently reading "A World Without Cancer" by G Edward Griffin. It's the story of Vit B17. The theory of biochemist, Dr Ernst T Krebs is an interesting one. He said diseases such as scurvy, pellagra, pernicious anemia, rickets, beri-beri, etc were not caused by something foreign that was added to the body but instead something lacking. They initially looked outside the body for virus or bacteria as the cause of these diseases but eventually found that the cause was a vitamin deficiency. He felt the cause of cancer is the same...a deficiency...of the nitriloside family, specifically vit B17 (laetrile) which is found abundantly in nature in nearly 1200 plants in virtually every part of the world. And it's severely lacking in modern man's diet and becomes more so each and every day. He gave examples in nature...when a dog or cat are sick, they will search out grasses that contain nitrilosodes...monkeys and other primates when given a fresh peach or apricot will pull away the sweet fleshy part and go straight for the seed (where the B17 is contained). Instinct compels them to do this even if they have never seen these types of fruit before....bears eat berries (which contain B17 but also if/when they kill small grazing animals, they will pass over the muscle portions and first consume the viscera and rumen which are filled with nitriloside grasses. These animals seldom if ever get cancer but domesticated animals or those in captivity, do.
I said all that to say that this solidified in me that maybe diet is more important than some might think. I haven't yet finished the book but thought I would share.
"Let food be thy medicine and medicine thy food."
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Impositive, could you explain the kind of chemo you are taking. You said it's natural, non toxic and you don't lose your hair. What exactly is it? What are the studies using this kind of chemo? How does it destroy cancer cells? Does it destroy cancer stem cells?
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Thank you everyone for such educational posts. Each time I read one, it reaffirms my conviction that I could never do conventional chemo, or even radiation. My friend who passed from lung cancer had her brain fried by radiation, and the cancer was not even there. It was done as a preventitive measure. She was never the same after that, and during that time, the cancer traveled to her shoulder, yet she was being treated for a rotator cuff injury for five months before the doctor thought perhaps the cancer had spread to her shoulder instead of her brain. I don't understand why seemingly intelligent doctors couldn't have connected the dots on that one, and she never once questioned their decisions.
She continued to receive chemo up until several days before she died, literally from starvation, because she couldn't eat. I tried to discuss other options with her but she never wanted to talk about it. Finally I realized that if I wanted to continue having her as a friend, I would just have to shut up and live with her doctor's decisions.
I know that her cancer was terminal from day one. Small cell lung cancer is deadly, but there has to be a more humane way to receive treatment and still maintain some quality of life. We are now facing the same situation with my boyfriend's sister who has been diagnosed with the same type of lung cancer. She would not do radiation, but she is doing chemo. So far she is holding her own, but again, doesn't want to hear anything about diet or nutrition. So frustrating.
I have learned so much from this thread and feel very comfortable about the options I will choose should my biopsy turn out to be cancer. Even if it isn't, I have found a way of living my life with diet and nutrition that will keep me healthy, and give me a better quallity of life going forward.
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Evebarry, I agree, we are all awesome !
ThatsLife, you certainly have a way with words, i.e. talent, lady
I thought I would add that maybe we should all be chewing on bark.....
"Pine bark extract (pycnogenol) is a potent antioxidant, and may help boost the effects of vitamin C and other antioxidants, UC Berkeley scientists report
NO (nitric oxyde) also plays other roles in the body, from destroying bacterial invaders and cancer cells to relaying signals in the brain. In the past one and a half years, he and post-doctoral colleagues Fabio Virgili, Hirotsugu Kobuchi and Elaine Cossins have documented the details of Pycnogenol's interaction with NO. Last year they showed that Pycnogenol affects the production of NO in the white blood cells called macrophages -- scavenger cells that spew out NO to destroy invading bacteria, viruses and cancer cells"
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/98legacy/02_05_98a.html
Pine bark extract acts as an antioxidant by scavenging reactive oxygen and nitrogen species and suppressing production of peroxides . It increases the activities of antioxidant enzymes by increasing the intracellular glutathione levels. In addition to increasing NO production which induces vasodilation, pine bark extract also blocks the NF-kB activation stimulated by tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and inhibits production of adhesion proteins that cause inflammation and atherosclerosis. An in vitro study suggests that Pycnogenol induces apoptosis in human breast cancer cells and not in normal breast cells although the mechanism is not clear
Other in vitro studies have also shown that it reduces neuronal apoptosis, an important feature of Alzheimer's disease, by decreasing free radical generation. In animal studies, pine bark extract exhibits a protective effect on cardiotoxicity caused by antitumor drugs, such as doxorubicin, due to its ability to act as a free-radical scavenger.
http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/69332.cfm
Selective induction of apoptosis in human mammary cancer cells (MCF-7) by pycnogenol
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=pycnogenol%20and%20breast%20cancer
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Eve, I am getting DMSO Poteniated Therapy. DMSO combined with Vit B17 (laetrile) and vit C and administered daily (intravenously.) DMSO is a byproduct of wood pulp industry and is used as a "carrier" or trojan horse". It makes cells very permeable and allows the substances it binds to, to enter the cell. It binds to the B17 (laetrile) and vit C and carries it through the cell wall. Once the B17 is inside the cell, it releases cyanide and kills the cancer cell. I know you're probably saying "cyanide?!" The thing is that the cyanide doesn't harm normal cells, only cancer cells. Normal cells have a certain enzyme that cancer cells do not have. This enzyme when exposed to cyanide, neutralizes it rendering it harmless.
When high does vitamin C builds up in your system, it creates peroxide which is toxic to cancer cells as well as building your immune system.
The only side effects I've had so far is a herxheimer type reaction (fever, chills, headache) they seem to lessen with each day's treatment.
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impositive: Sending you prayers and healing energy. Keep us updated on your condition and therapy...we're all pulling for you!
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Evebarry,
I just wanted to clarify the way I feel. First, I have refused some chemo treatments. My first round I refused one of the 6 and did 5. It was because I couldn't walk or take care of myself. I was on high dose Taxotere and Carboplatin. My outcome weather i do chemo remains the same, I am going to die of this disease. Then I was considered surgical,(Chemo killed some distant stuff), and had the nodes removed that they could reach. I agreed to radiation to the nodes left behind and a year of Herceptin. It took my tumor markers down. Eight months later I started a vaccine trial with Taxotere for 3 weeks on 1 week off. I refused 2 of those Taxotere treatments. I have progressed and starting new treatment of which I will probably be skipping some treaments as I want to be functional as long as I can then will stop treatment.
I feel that we live longer because of modern medicine, not herbal. However, they do not,(Tradiontal medicine), necessarily consider quality of life.
With you being stage 1, I feel it can change your outcome. Also with you being ER+, there are other meds like Tamoxifen that are effective. Do keep posting because my 1st onc did not treat side effects and my 2nd one does. I am on 600mg of gabepetin 2 times a day for the neuropathy that Taxotere causes, so I agree to treatment when I feel ok.
Chemo is a very hard thing to say yes to, it's just an awful thing to have to do. If you choose to do chemo, let us help you with side effect treatment so it is not as bad as it has to be. If you choose not to I can understand that also. I am not trying to persuade you to do chemo, just want to let you know the possible outcome changes.
Ask your doctor how much of a difference it would make for you before you decide. If it would make only a 3 percent difference verses a 50%, then?
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evebarry, there are two protocols. 1. DMSO and low dosages of chemo2 DMSO based: B17, C, 3 botanicals, etc.ETA: Neither destroy the healthy cells. DMSO Potentiation Therapy (DPT)
www.new-cancer-treatments.org/Cancer/DPT.html
cancertutor.com/Cancer/DMSO.html
Directory of Clinicswww.cancure.org/directory_clinics.htm0 -
MA111 ... I don't have an oncologist yet. The first two cancers were highgrade dcis...stage 0. The third, different breast, was stage 1, grade 1, mucinious cancer. The recent dx is idc, her2+++ ...the surgeon said we won't know the stage until after we get the final pathology report ... then we will have a better or more complete picture of what's happening. I hope it is stage 1. At this point I'm taking one step at a time. The first is to remove the now infected breast. I'm stressing too much about this. 2007, 2008 dx dcis highgrade, Jan 2011, mucinious stage 1, Sept 2011, IDC high grade her2+ (3+)er + pr+
Diagnosis: 10/4/2011, IDC, Grade 3, ER+/PR+, HER2+0 -
Princess, if the cancer turns out to be in the nodes, or advance beyond the breast, I will definately consider the DMSO treatment. I'm open to herceptin without chemo.
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Steve Jobs lived a lot longer than most with his diagnosis. There is also talk by some docs that Steve Jobs made a mistake having the liver transplant ... that the anti rejection drugs interfered with his body's ability to fight off the disease any longer. One thing I know...whenever anyone decides to use only natural medicine and then has a recurrence or dies ... people say it was the fault of going natural. When people use the drugs with the same outcome ... people say "Well, they did the best they could." They never say "They should have gone natural." or "They chose the wrong chemo regimen." It is a really tough choice to make. You can research until your brain hurts and still find that there is no one right answer. You have to weigh risks and benefits. What one person is willing to risk in terms of side effects for a 2% benefit may not be worth the risk to another. I kept running into docs who quoted recurrence stats that were in actuality for the other breast .. I don't have the other breast .. I had a DBL Mast. So while making these difficult decisions, please make sure you know from whence they quote. Also, make sure you know the difference in recurrence statistics and over all survival statistics. Some drug manufacturers report success if only 2 out 100 make it 5 yrs. That means 98 of 100 suffered side effects for no gain. With the ability to diagnose earlier and earlier, avoiding recurrence for 7 yrs instead of 5 may not be because of the drug but because the cancer was found 2 yrs earlier. It is important to look at long term survival statistics instead of the usual quotes based on getting people to the 5 yr mark disease free. I've read some reports from drug companies heralding success with numbers so small it is shocking. Do your homework. Decide. Then Live.
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