Fagonia Cretica (Virgin's Mantle)
Comments
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Hello.
What can you say about fagonia cretica all in all? Is it really can help? and where should I buy it with shipping to Russia?
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Hello, All,
This copy of an email is from Mr. Imrad Saeed, of the Rehan Company in Pakistan, from whom I have ordered Fagonia cretica extract. I thought I'd post it for your information:
"Dear Sir,
Thanks for your kind email.
It is liquid extract known as tea in our country. You have to take 120 ml in a cup of tea per day. For breast cancer use it regularly for 3 month.
Price for 240 ml packing is US $ 8. Minimum order is US $ 100. Recommended quantity price is 120 ml X 90 days X US $ 4 = $360. Prices included postal charges.
You can pay by PayPal or western union money transfer.
Please visit our site for detailed information.. This is our new product. Soon you will see it in our site. www.rehanherbalmedicine.com
Always assure you our best cooperation.
Imran Saeed.
www.rehanherbalmedicine.com
info@rehanherbalmedicine.com
0092-300-8408799
0092-321-8408799
0092-345-8408799
0092-42-37634097"
********
The orders take time to arrive by regular mail. If you place an order, I'd recommend communicating with Mr. Saeed about perhaps using DHL or another international carrier which could deliver more promptly. Of course, that would add cost, but I think speedier delivery is more desireable than waiting for regular mail.
A note: Apparently, I provided incorrect information previously about how they make their extract, confusing my metric measurements. They get 1 lt of extract by an infusion from 1 kilo (2.2 lbs) of raw product. I mistakenly posted that the extract was from a much greater quantity of Fagonia cretica material. My apologies.
Gail Campbell
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Hello, All,
Without intending to impune the reputation of anyone, I feel that it's proper to post a message from an academic regarding caution when obtaining medicinal products from the marketplace.
In searching for F. cretica, I contacted Dr. Zabda Shinwari, Prof. and Chair, BIO Technology Dept, Quaid-i-Azam University, Pak., through a publicly available paper that addressed the subject of wild plant depletion from excessive harvesting. Fagonia cretica was mentioned as one of those harvested plants. I wrote to him and he wrote back and referred me to Dr. Allan Showalter, Prof., Environmental and Plant Pathology, Ohio University, and Chair, Ohio Plant Biotechnology Consortium. Dr. Showalter in turn referred me to Dr. Melanie Schori, Ph.D, Postgraduate Fellow, Ohio University for taxonomic and other questions. Dr. Schori and I have been exchanging emails and she's been providing iinformation regarding F. cretica and another Fagonia, F. indica, which is also commonly used for medicinal purposes in Pakistan. Drs. Shinwari, Showalter, and Schori are conducting research together on medicinal plants of Pakistan.
Dr. Schori has written cautions about obtaining medicinal plant products in the marketplace. She saw my posting above regarding a source for F. cretica extract and wrote me, below. She encouraged me to post her message on this forum because"...I think it’s important for people to be aware of the potential risks involved with contamination of herbal remedies":
"Hi Gail,
I saw some of your posts on a breast cancer forum and want to caution you about trying to get material from India and other places overseas. I’m not saying that F. indica or F. cretica doesn’t have an effect, and I don’t want to discourage you, but what I’m going to write is based on the research I’ve done on market samples, and research a colleague at New York Botanical Gardens has done on supplements available in the US. You can read the attached article on research he did on herbal teas.
In the US, we’re used to getting high-quality materials from the store. The FDA requires labeling of ingredients for foods, and drugs have to be tested to certain standards before they can be sold. Herbal supplements aren’t really regulated in the same manner at all, but generally if you go to the store and buy something that’s labeled ginseng, it has ginseng in it. However, it may not be the species of ginseng you think it is. My colleague at NYBG has done research on black cohosh supplements, which are used to help with menopause symptoms. There’s been a lot of research in Germany about the effectiveness of black cohosh, and there’s widespread acceptance that it works. However, not all supplements that are sold as black cohosh actually have the species Actaea racemosa in them. Black cohosh is wild harvested, and it is only found in the US. There are two poisonous species of Actaea that also grow in the US, but they are different enough in size that people aren’t collecting them by mistake. By doing DNA barcoding, this guy found that about 27% of black cohosh supplements actually contained Asian species of Actaea. So substitution is occurring somewhere, and it’s deliberate on the part of someone in the supply chain, because they are importing material from Asia, and you don’t do that kind of thing accidentally. Do these Asian species work in the same way? Maybe, maybe not – they have not been the focus of research. He found a similar case for saw palmetto supplements, which relieve prostate enlargement – most supplements have the species they’re supposed to, but about 25% have a species that doesn’t grow in the US and is imported from Mexico and the Caribbean. It’s used there for the same thing, but it isn’t saw palmetto, and no one has done research to see if it has the same effects. Saw palmetto is the #2 best-selling supplement in the US, and depending on which brand people buy, they aren’t actually taking saw palmetto. The best seller is garlic pills, and apparently those don’t actually have garlic in them – they have another species of Allium. There are many species of Allium, and they certainly aren’t all the same – just think about the difference of cooking with onion and garlic.
In a country like India or Pakistan, there is no sort of regulation at all. Many species that are used medicinally aren’t cultivated, and they may come from other countries. Often they’re collected by women and children in mountainous regions, and then sent (by mule, horse, truck, etc.) from place to place until they arrive in a city. They are only dealt with by common name, and one common name might apply to multiple plants. So far, the market samples of plants I’ve been working with have not been of especially good quality, and often they are entirely different from what they’re supposed to be. The men who sell these plants generally don’t know what they look like, so they can’t identify anything that’s suspicious. Plants that are widely used in cooking might be recognized by most purchasers, but everything else is basically a crapshoot. Here are some examples of things I’ve found:
Leaves and flower buds sold as aak (Calotropis procera, Apocynaceae) are Senna sp. (Fabaceae).
Leaves and stems sold as Artemisia absinthium (Asteraceae) included material of Nepeta (Lamiaceae).
Stems of Fumaria indica (Papervaceae) also included Lagenaria (Curcurbitaceae).
Flowers sold as Lavandula stoechas are another species of Lavandula.
Leaves of Lawsonia (Lythraceae) were mixed with grass and bits of debris from other plants.
Chopped material of chamomile (whole plant) was not Matricaria but Petronema, a different genus in Asteraceae. A second market sample was actually inflorescences of Matricaria chamomilla.
Twigs sold as Plumbago zeylanica (Plumbaginaceae) seem to be Periploca (Apocynaceae), which is poisonous.
Seeds sold as Leucas linifolia (Lamiaceae) were Portulaca oleracea (Portulacaceae)
Seeds sold as Thymus (Lamiaceae) were Trachyspermum ammi (Apiaceae).
Seeds sold as Salvia moorcroftiana (Lamiaceae) were Lactuca (Asteraceae).
These results don’t take into account that most market material includes material of other species in the form of grass leaves and weed seeds. The student from Pakistan who was working on the Leucas and Thymus had to carefully sort out seeds of sedges and Chenopodium, not to mention rocks, from all of her samples.
If you buy material from another country, whether it’s raw or an extracted product, you have no way of knowing what’s actually in it. The taxonomist at the herbal company we’re working with misidentified all of the market material I bought last year. Traditional medicines were developed in situ – by people who collected the plants that grew near their house, or in a region that they could travel to by foot or animal in a time when roads were pretty terrible. Things fall apart when you add in a faulty supply chain because material isn’t cultivated. Middlemen have an incentive to adulterate material – they can sell more and get a higher price than if they maintain the integrity of the collected plants. I would not encourage anyone to try to get Fagonia cretica material or products from Pakistan or India unless they have a way to verify the material before they take it. It’s not going to be F. cretica, it will be F. indica if it’s correctly identified. Most of the available material is probably dried twigs, with no leaves or flowers. If you get material from India, please make sure you can have someone at OSU do a DNA extraction and sequence the rbcL gene to confirm that it’s really Fagonia before you make a tea or take an extract. You have no way of knowing that what you’ll get is what you actually want, and while a substitution may not hurt you, there’s a real possibility it could, depending on which species might have been substituted. While many poisonous plants are useful as medicinals when they’re properly prepared and taken in the right dose, you don’t want to ingest something unless you’re sure of what it is."
The attachment Dr. Schori refers to above is not included here but is available. Send me a personal message requesting it and I will forward it to you.
Gail
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Hi Gail,
Thanks for sharing this very important message about potential issues with nutritional supplements.
Dr. Melanie Schori, in case you're reading here, THANK YOU for your message! It's a real shame the FDA doesn't have the budget/staff/inclination to crack down on these issues with much more oomph than they do.
ETA - Gail, please do forward the attachment to me via PM. I'd appreciate it!
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Hello,
Thank you for this great research.
But there is a point when people are sick , they are willing to try anything that might help.
We all waiting on the results from zippy tea (This is a stage 4 case).
I personly has helped a friend of mine father to get cured completley from rectal cancer.
After 6 month of chemo and radiation, the only option was surgical (bag on the side rest of his life) that is where he said no i will try anything.
With a very close monitinring (every 2 weeks) we started to see results in 6 week and withn 7 month he was cancer free.
Only side effect was little constipation.
I wish everyone good health.
Regards
Wm
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Hi All,
Fagonia cretica really works and help in the management of breast cancer (Know many references in Pakistan).
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Gail, thank you for posting.
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Hello,
I have been helping people using herbs and natural supplements for years.
When I found Fagonia research I was amazed with this herb.
Regardless of the quality which is completely a separate issue.
Fagonia does work, and the result starts as soon as 5 hours and you should see noticable results in 24 hours.
Let us look at it from this point,if it is not going to help I don't think it will harm.
Also for anyone who had gone through Chemo and radiation, the bone marrow does get effected.
This product is designed to help.
Marrow plus .
you can buy from here.
please read here.
http://tcmblogs.info/2009/07/marrow-plus-by-health-concerns/
Stay well.
Regards
Wm
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Hello,
Can fagonia be used while thenperson using chimo&radiation.
Alaso has anyone heard from people who start using fagonia.
Thanks
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Hello to evrybody I'm looking to know what is new in this topic, how so you feel using the tea, what is the best way to buy it, please anyone? thanks a lot
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Hola your information is very imporntan can you pelase forward it to me? do you ahve any updates on this? thanks a hugs. Rossana
(Edited by Mods to remove member's personal email address.)
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Hello to everybody..
I need your help.
I'm looking to know what is the new information in this topic?, how do you feel using the tea? what is the best way to buy it? please anyone? I want to buy the tea and ship it to USA or Mexico.
Thank you so much for all of the support.
Rossana
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Hello,
I know that someone was going to try "Artemisinin", can please who tried this to give us an update.
I am trying to put a protocol together and that will help me.
Thanks.
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It has turned out that the seminal 2012 Fagonia cretica study by Lam, et al., has been unable to date to authenticate the plant material they used. But whatever they used DID kill breast cancer cells in vitro wi/72 hrs. and they believed they were working with F. cretica. They obtained their samples from patients who had it with them while in a Pakistani hospital. Other plant scholars have opined that the plant was in fact F. indica, mis-identified as F. cretica. The contact author on the study has told me that they are going to do follow-up studies with F. indica, a plant cited very widely for treating numerous maladies. My information is that much of the plant matter collected as "F. cretica" by rural villagers may well not be taxonomically accurately identified. As Dr. Schori has pointed out, you cannot depend on obtaining bona fide plant matter in the Pakistani marketplace when what you're dealing with is dried sticks, powder, and such. I've seen several bags of purportedly dried F.cretica offered on the internet, supposedly being comprised of flowers, leaves, branches, either singly or in combination.
If you want to know where F. cretica occurs, you can look up the species in the Beier 2005 study on the genus, "A revision of the desert shrub Fagonia (Zygophyllaceae)", B.-A. Beier, Systematics and Biodiversity / Volume 3 / Issue 03 / September 2005, pp 221 263. There are maps as to where Fagonias occur, world-wide. He verified three Fagonia species occuring in Pakistan: F. bruguieri, F. indica, and F. paulayana.
Link to this article: http://journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S1477200005001684
There's still a lot of purportedly F. cretica available in middle eastern marketplaces. F. cretica may well have breast-cancer-killing characteristics but that is an open question at this time in terms of the current scientific research. It could also be that a number of Fagonia species have similar or the same pharmacologically active compounds. Rural Pakistani and Indian women are still making a tea out of supposedly Fagonia plant material and treating their their breast cancer with it. I'm trying to find any follow-up studies on the efficacy of their treatment and awaiting the results of the follow-up Lam, et al. study.
Best to you, gailrcampbell 2/26/13
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I have had stage 4 metastatic breast cancer for 2 years at least, I've been through 8 lots on chemo, and been on 3 weekly Herceptin for the last 15 months.
I also have a daily Ibandronat pill to strengthen my spine.
I feel very well overall, and I got to the stage a few months ago that I wanted to try and do more, as I felt that my treatment was only delaying the inevitable, and that showed in the faces and actions of the hospital staff. (who are wonderful I hasten to add, could just be me thinking that I guess).
After a long absence my periods returned, now my periods have always been long, bloody and painful, even after 4 children, so I am used to the pain that brings each month, my point is, apart from my monthly I now have no or very little pain or discomfort from the cancer in my spine.
Quite apart from my new (very expensive) bed I started taking Fagonia Cretica tea a few months back, as first I was sceptical as it was from India and worried about authenticity, but I did find it on ebay and had no problems receiving the tea.
My morning routine is to wake, take my Ibandronat tablet with a glass of water, wait for 30 minutes and then drink my tea, wait another 30 minutes and then have breakfast.
Sometimes I get fed up with the whole thing, some days more than others, but I really do think its doing me good. There are no side effects I can see or feel, so for me I'm happy to be taking it.
Clarissa
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Clarissa, thank you for sharing and so glad it is making you feel better. If you wouldn't mind, please provide the source for the product you are using. I've had no luck thus far. One internet source didn't ship anything, another was not fegonia cretica. To avoid getting into it on the board, you can private message the information to me. I promise to be discrete with the info. Thank you and my sincere hopes that the benefits continue for you.
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I see the study used the aqueous extract on cultured cells. That is way different from taking it orally. I doubt anyone would care to inject the aqueous extract directly into the tumors. Did anyone research if there is any toxicity on these plants, what side effects might be, and any drug or other plant and diet interactions?
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Because I read "An aqueous extract was prepared by soaking dried plant material (20g) in 500ml d.H2O at 70°C for 5 hours with constant agitation. The extract was filtered with Fisherbrand filter paper (Fisher Scientific, FB59020, UK) to remove solids before being subjected to liquid-liquid partition with 3 times equal volumes of hexane. The aqueous phase was dried under vacuum and stored at 4°C."
How are you going to get hexane?
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The question I have is why would you want to make an aqueous extract, with hexane???, with something that has already been proven beneficial in it's natural form? This is my opinion only, but it seems to me that once the benefits were discovered with Indian women, some company had to screw with it, pharmaceutically....and then and only then did it make the news. My opinion only but my common sense dictates that some pharmaceutical company wants to manipulate it, have it result in unwanted side-effects, market it and cash in. I want just the tea, sans gasoline.
Ed for sp.
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It still doesn't change the fact that the aqueous extract was used on a cell culture. Which will not happen if you drink tea. As I said, I doubt you will find someone willing to inject plant tea in a tumor.
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Hi, just joined breastcancer.org and am too thinking of using fagonia cretica for my triple negative breastcancer ( diagnosed 2 weeks ago).
I am concerned about the authenticity of product and other kinds of scams on people seen as vulnerable.
I am in England. Fagonia cretica grows in some parts of spain, and hope to pick some soon.
Would also like to point out that in ( patrticularly aggressive) types of cancer , maintaining a normal range blood glucose is essential and vastly improves outcomes, this is unfortunate as people are not routinely tested for pre diabetes/ diabetes in the UK-- something i hope to change, and also looking into melatonin as sleep aid and powerful antioxidant?
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hi, from england. there is a lot that looks wrong about the fagonia cretica articles etc. i am checking up .
There is no Dudley hospital trial. The hospital in that area is called Russell's Hall. Aston university in Birmingham is not a medical university, it offers a variety of subjects, but is not the equivalent of your IVY league university )
I have not checked with the university about staff or botanists yet.
there is a lot of cutting and pasting, and unfortunately a couple of fraud/ con groups can do 100's of seemingly legit web postings in hours.(it takes a few minutes for the minor pieces)
the suppliers appear to be associates of each other, and no medical herbalist has heard of this plant, or its use in breast cancer ( including so far ayuvedic practitioners)
unfortunately some very nasty fraudsters like to prey on those they see as vulnerable, so who knows what you would be getting. there are many plants that are addictive, there are others that were used during the slave era to cause zombie like states to make slaves compliant.
If you and others can let me know where and when you saw articles i will collate, to get some kind of timeline.Please alert your own law enforcement agencies.
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I am an Ayurvedic practitioner. I can get the Fagonia Cretica tea for anyone who is looking for it in USA. I am also a licensed professional counselor and do cancer counseling. I teach breathing and relaxation techniques through cognitive behavioral therapy and mindfulness. You can visit my website www.heartland-wellness.com for more information.
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By the way for those of you who are interested in research there is a journal article through the NIH on pub Med about Fagonia Cretica and its effects on breast cancer.
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Can someone who has used Fagonia Cretica please share their experiences. Has it been beneficial as some of the internet sites claim
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Hello,
I was recently asked to get this herb by a friend whose friends mom has cancer. As was researching this herb and came upon this forum and thought I'd post a few words.
If you call someone in India (or any 3rd world country) and ask them for "Fagonia Cretica" and indicate that you are from the west and willing to pay they will not say no. Really you could ask for Kryptonisis Supermantis and you will receive something in the mail.
You need to know what the locals call it.
My friend asked me because she knows that I am an Ahmadi. Ahmadiyya community is a offshoot community with roots in Islam. I am not a scholar in religious matters so I will not try to explain but our main difference from mainstream Islam is that we believe that Jesus did not die on the cross or get lifted to heaven but instead survived the crusifiction went looking for the lost tribes of Israel and eventually ended up dying in Kashmir,India. We also do not believe in violent struggle, and that the Masiah for all religions has arrived. Anyway's....sorry to go on a tangent...during India/Pakistan partition our community was moving from India to Pakistan and the leader of the community at the time had a dream that the place we move to will have an herb that has magical healing properties. The herb was cultivated and is commonly used for all kinds of treatments from cancer to acne. My wife has even used it at some point and claims one of her teachers was cured of lung cancer by using it. Its called "Suchi Booti" which translates to "Truth Root" in english.
I did a little more digging and the main ingredient is Fagonia which is harvested and sold in the form of a pill. From what I remember the main drugstore selling this pill is called Nasir Dawakhana.
So I have arranged for my cousin who still lives there (Rabwah) to get some of these pills to my friends mom (who has tried chemo but is doing the herbal route now). I am also curious to know what the effects will be and have asked her to keep me in the loop. When I hear something I will be happy to share.
Cancer is a terrible disease and I hope the victims and their families all the strength and courage to beat it.
Omar0 -
I just read through all these posts and some of you started using this Fagonia Cretica as a part of your cancer treatment. I haven't seen any testimonials of healing, which I would expect that it would be posted here if that was the case. Can anyone weigh in on how things are going after having tried Fagonia Cretica? Thanks!
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I'd certainly take it if I could find it. I haven't been able to find a legitimate source......still....not through lack of trying, though. Some stuff I ordered on line never made it past customs, unfortunately, and another package was confirmed by a botanist friend to be rose hips, not fagonia cretica. That site has since been shut down. Not my first rodeo with scammers. Hell's waiting for those guys.
Omarblues, thank you for posting. Very informative.
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Hello Cowan: I am also new to breastcancer.org. I am not sure of the reputation of the school, but the paper is legitimate. I am currently a graduate student at UNCC and I accessed the paper via Atkins library. The paper is a Master's thesis and it has been peer reviewed (this means that it was reviewed by other scholars). I am not fighting cancer, but my mother in law is and I have begun doing research on the subject. However, I am a historian conducting research in history and I am not well versed in chemistry in order to fully understand the thesis on Fagonia Cretica. Furthermore, I am discouraged by the fact that perhaps the sample was mislabeled. Additionally, I am also deeply concerned about the possibility of contamination or mislabeling or a product that is sent from across the world and that has not been regulated at all. However, I read on this forum that there is a doctor that works in a university and who will verify the authenticity of the tea. Can anyone tell me more about this or anything that has helped breast cancer patients? Thanks, and I can also forward you the thesis if you would like.
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michalavraman, since you are a grad student yourself, you know that a single Master-level thesis is hardly equivalent to published studies by PhDs/MDs in reputable, peer-reviewed medical journals. You have free access to them through the UNCC libraries, I'm sure.
You'll also notice that many of the posts immediately above are by drive-by posters with little credibility.
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