Non dairy.....why I feel let down by Jane plant
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Momine, are you in Denmark???? I guess so. Everyone/Anyone: what about "Greek" yogurt? Is it made in Greece? I know it sounds like such a stupid question. I guess the answer is, it depends on the 'brand', like everything, and I should (like everything) read the label and see what it says about where it's made....0 -
I doubt much, if any, yogurt made in the US comes from Greece. I think "Greek" refers to the style of yogurt. It is thick and I imagine heavily strained. Yogurt can be thin or thick and taste different depending on the starter culture it was made with. In Afghanistan, way back in the late '70's, we used to make yogurt from powdered whole milk that was imported from Europe. It was really good!0 -
Jessica, no, I grew up in Denmark, but for the last 15 years I have lived in the US and Greece - which is apropos to your question.
Total yogurt is made in the US by a Greek company. Chobani is made by a Turkish-American in the US. I don't think they import the stuff from Greece anymore, although when Total was first introduced to the US by John "Fat John" Catsimatidis, they were flying it in.
Greek yogurt is thicker and creamier (even the no-fat version) than regular yogurt, as well as not being sour or bitter. Yogurt was introduced to Europe by a Greek from Thessalonica who went to France and opened a yogurt shop, later known as Danone.
Brnxgrl, you have probably told me before, but Afghanistan in the 70s? That sounds rather exciting. My parents took a trip through there by bus, with a bunch of students, in the 60s. My mom still talks about it.0 -
Hi Momine,
I had forgotten you are in Greece. I was just there a few weeks ago on a cruise to the Mediterranean and the Holy Land. The Greek ports of call were: Patmos, Rhodes, Santarini and finishing in Athens. While in Greece I enjoyed walking around eating spinach pie and ending up with frozen yoghurt with sour cherries. Heavenly! On my return home I bought frozen yoghurt to rekindle the tastes of Greece. Nothing like it, I'm afraid. I routinely make a sort-of spinach pie in the way of a quiche, i.e. all the ingredients of a spinach pie but with a pastry bottom. It is really lovely.
I normally don't eat ice cream. I used to eat Greek yoghurt but a Greek friend of mine told me it is not as good in North America, so I stopped eating it. (Something about too much fat and that the fat part contains too many hormones from lactating cows). She suggested I go to a Greek store and enquire where they get their Greek yoghurt, assuming they sell it of course.0 -
painterly,
You can find organic, low/no fat yoghurt in many stores though it probably won't taste exactly like what you ate in Greece. Still, it's quite good.
Momine,
I was a Peace Corps volunteer and the last English teacher for Ariana Afghan Airlines. It was an amazing experience that shaped who I am today. I love Afghanistan and am broken hearted over what's happened there over the last 30+ years.
Caryn0 -
Yeah, me too about afghanistan, never got there while it was still there, got to greece though, in 1961, hitched there with my lover, now former husband, from denmark to karistos. lived there a month with the petrakis family. a very fond memory0 -
Painterly, dang! You should have come by for a coffee
If you want to try making a Greek spinach pie, try the following. This is not made with a phyllo dough, but a more country-style crust.
Dough:
1 cup sparkling water
1/2 cup olive oil
1/2 teaspoon salt
Enough whole-wheat flour to make a kneadable dough - a little less than a pound.
Knead the dough till elastic and leave to rest while you make the filling.
Filling:
Defrost 2 lbs spinach and squeeze as much water out of it as you can.
Chop an onion and a few cloves of garlic and saute in olive oil till translucent. Add in spinach. Add a large handful of chopped, fresh dill. You can also add a little fresh mint, if you like it. Take off heat.
Beat two eggs with about 3-4 oz of Greek yogurt. Chop up about 3-4 oz of feta. Mix the egg/yogurt stuff and the cheese well with the spinach.
Get out a large, round tin (12 inches) and oil it with olive oil. Roll out half the dough and let it hang over the sides. Add filling. Top with the other half of the dough rolled out. Seal edges, trim and fold onto the pie. Cut 4-5 holes in top for steam. Bake 45-60 minutes at 375. During baking it is a good idea to roll up a piece of kitchen paper and soak up any excess liquid bubbling out of the holes. When it is nicely browned all over, remove from oven. Let it cool on a rack for about 10 minutes, then slide it out of the tin (gently) and leave it to cool some more. It is good both hot and cold. If you don't have spinach, you can use 5 leeks, sliced, cleaned and cooked down (to get rid of liquid and to make them tender) along with all the other ingredients.0 -
Bronx, that is really cool. Afghanistan is by all accounts an amazing place.0 -
Momine,
Thanks for the recipe.
I note that for the filling you use 2 eggs plus the yoghurt whereas I use 5 eggs minus the yoghurt but all the other ingredients that you use. I am due to make a spinach pie on Thursday so I will try your version. Sounds lovely. I will let you know how I find the difference between your filling and mine!
And how interesting the way you make your pastry. With olive oil as a fat! I have to try that.0 -
Exbronx,
Thanks for the tip about the yoghurt.0 -
Painterly, don't forget some salt and pepper. I forgot to write that. I experimented quite a bit after DX with ways to make this kind of crust with olive oil. A friend, who has a restaurant nearby, taught me the trick with the sparkling water and more oil than I had been using.0 -
oh- glad I asked my stupid question, if only to have my mind momentarily taken away from the themes at hand and to be transported...to far away lands. Also, to learn a bit about the interesting lives we lead separate from this affliction. Cool exbrxgrl. And momine. Thanks ladies.0 -
Jessica, I agree that it is good to remember that we have other stuff going on besides the stupid cancer.0 -
Jane admits that she had relapsed her vegan diet before getting this reoccurrence. She resumed her vegan diet and the lump disappeared. She was once again in remission. Several years later she died of blood clot caused by medication she was on. She was 71. I believe she survivedalmost 25 years from first diagnosis. A very inspirational lady. I am following her diet plan after being diagnosed with endometrial cancer stage 4 grade 3. Stage 4 because it spread to my brain. My daughter (age 20) has been vegan for about 5 years and my sister for 2 years. My other daughter has been veggie for 2 years. The dairy products now available in the UK are unrecognisable from what we consumed pre-1920’s. Meat is the same. I understand meat production is worse in the US and Canada.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/healthyeat...
When she first switched to the vegan diet, she also did chemo, according to the above article. When she had a relapse again, she went on letrozole (and resumed her vegan diet), as noted elsewhere in this thread. Perhaps the diet helped or perhaps it didn't. It is impossible to tell from the available evidence.
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I didn't know she had passed. I read her book a while ago and I thought it was full of good information supported by plenty of research. It also contains stories of her personal struggles and insights. So I had to glean the objective information and separate it from the subjective aspects.
She did cheat on her plant program diet as I understand from that link by OP. From what I understand she attributed the growth of the tumor to the lapse and reduced it with the combination of going back to her strict diet and medication. I guess when she said that "now that I got a recurrence and am again in remission proves that my diet works", she meant that if she followed it strictly in the first place, there wouldn't be tumor GROWTH. As for the effectiveness of the diet in tumor REDUCTION, it looks to me it wasn't enough. But reading through her medical history and the severity of her diagnosis, her surviving it for 30 years is something to behold. I remember the story of the 2 servings of low fat yogurt that she gave up. She advocated not just giving up dairy but following a plant based diet, among other things. One of the hardest things in life is to have willpower and discipline. Even in her case, she knew what to avoid. In the end though, she was cancer free.
The one point she made that I still remember is the stuff about IGF-1. I found a research article related to it which was pretty convincing to me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC31413...I brought this up with my MO and he said that IGF-1 is highly related to insulin and blood glucose levels and that cancer is not necessarily correlated to oral intake of foods that already have IGF-1 in it like dairy (which Plant proposed). It just so happens that some dairy is highly insulinotropic. I'm only understanding this now after all this time.
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An old study but recently spoken about in various articles on the www that concerns fermented milk products and gouda cheese. When I consume cheese, I'll reach for the Gouda. I guess the same beneficial MK4 can be found in Natto (shudder) so cheese it will be. I also came across a chart of other foods with high MK4 and goose liver pate is high on the list! Hmmmm... maybe just a tablespoon for the holidays.
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I have seen several references over the years about the beneficial effects of fermented dairy products.
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I definitely agree. I wish I knew this about Jane plant before I bought her book. How has your diet been going? Do you know of any experiences I could look up or connect with who have and are successfully using a plant based diet to combat cancer? Would love to hear some hopeful stories
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ashley,
This thread has been inactive for a bit more than 3 years. If this is a topic that interests you you may want to consider starting new thread
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As a near life-long vegetarian teetotaler who has always maintained a healthy weight, exercised regularly and meditated daily (up to 2 hours a day)* I have to roll my eyes at people who think they can cure their breast cancer by doing what I have always done. I mean, if it didn't prevent my breast cancer, how would it cure it? I am all for reducing risk wherever possible and am a big proponent of a balanced plant-based diet, but this sort of stuff seems just as victim-blamey as the "you weren't enough of a warrior/you didn't think enough positive thoughts" crowd.
All that being said, I am still clinging to my nearly dairy-free dark chocolate and my husband's fabulous him-made yoghurt. Never have been totally dairy free.
* oh yeah, and no family history or genetic mutations associated with increased risk, either
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Samesies.... DX at age 31, 3 weeks prior to my 32nd Birthday.
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Hi all,
When you get diagnosed with breast cancer and are so desperately trying to do everything you can to get better and stay healthy, you kind of get intense (probably an understatement!). That was so evidently behind my original post on Jane Plant. I regret the wording I used now i.e. "feel let down" etc. Think I was just suffering, like many folks on these boards, from some mild form of PTSD having almost died from my first dose of chemo and having navigated a long treatment pathway. Having said that, I've loved reading through the various super-intelligent comments that were made after the original post. There are some really cool thinkers on here!!
Back to non-dairy, I've remained so ever since, and have driven parts of my family mad in the process. But a non-dairy diet feels kind of comfortable for me. Who knows if it's helping to keep me well? Absolutely no idea.
I no longer feel let down by Jane Plant. Her books are (I believe) still relevant and really well researched. And the fact that she didn't highlight her recurrence for many months is understandable. It probably wasn't a priority when she realised that she was running out of options.
So, yes, I have a calmer, less panicky perspective now. I feel very sorry that someone who tried so hard to help others was taken out by the cancer beast.
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