TORADOL (ketorolac) linked to Recurrence Prevention
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Solfeo, Ditto to what Fallleaves said. I'm working on bladder stone shards passing. This is the 6 time. Ugh. Don't know what's responsible for this learning experience. All the different ologists stare blankly or shrug their shoulders. Scans,scopes, and labs negative. I'm into what I call White Knuckle Syndrome.
Go girl--getter'done.
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Ms. Sas, what dose of vitamin D are you currently on?
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Sorry you are having to deal with that kind of recurrent pain, Sassy. Hope you can find somebody who knows what's causing it, so you don't have to keep white knuckling it! And I hope you're feeling better VERY soon.
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that's amazing solfeo congratulations!
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Solfeo
Execellent!!!0 -
You are truly blessed to have good doctors in your team. So happy for you. Hoping for smooth surgery.
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Wow, Solfeo, it sounds like your meeting with your anesthesiologist could not have gone better! I'm so glad that your whole team is supportive of you and willing to fulfill your requests in the best possible way. Sounds like they are definitely going the extra mile. I love how enthusiastic your anesthesiologist is about putting this together for you, and hopefully other patients. How cool that you have gotten them to look at all this! (I have a feeling you have pretty good powers of persuasion) I hope your surgery goes seamlessly, and the mix the anesthesiologist puts together for you works really well. I think it is so great that you are blazing a trail that may end up helping many other women, too!
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Lol! Good one, Solfeo. But if I ever need a patient advocate, I'm hiring you!
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Solder, can't see it. Great idea!0
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Solfeo, that's warrior negotiations! YAY for everyone here. These are changes that will pave a way for a better future for all. I'm having some cosmetic surgery later this month and just asked my surgeon his thoughts on a block. I thought he'd pass out. But he uses the anesthesiologist group I used for my mastectomy. Based on this info, I just requested a premeeting. Don't care what it costs. We never know who we are teaching. Goodness knows I've learned thanks to these threads....and warriors
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Hi folks, I think this stone/shard experience is over for this event. YAY, Thanks for the nice thoughts.
Solfeo, it sounds like the whole plan came together. Looking forward to your report. Are you doing nipple sparing? I have a personal preset against it, simply b/c my BC extended up to and including the nipple. The MRI didn't pick it up. It was indicated in the final pathology report. For me, it would have been an extra sx. I worry when I hear folks doing nipple sparing. NOT based on research, just worry
Your experience with the pre-op anesthesia interview is what I have experienced for 18 years. That's why I was surprised by Rainny's experience of not being able to meet with anesthesia beforehand. But she had a good experience nonetheless. Gawd, I forget what Stteph's experience was with hers already.
Yes I agree I will get Dr Retsky's. Video in the topic box.
I posted earlier, that I was doing a reread of the entire thread. Only have done the first two pages. In a do over, I would have done a surgery schedule in the first or second box after the topic box. First, it would have avoided being caught short by not knowing Stephy's sx date. Second, tracking who had sx trying to follow these new ways. It would allow for follow up down the road. We could always do a box anywhere and I link the page. I've done that on other threads. Any suggestions on how to manage it now?
Stephy, glad to see you post
How are you doing? Rainny?
Fallleaves and 123 I will link to your threads in the topic box too.
Have a great weekend
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Falls and 123 check your topics ---did I get it right?
Solfeo, I added Dr Retsky's youtube angiogenesis link as well as the link he sent us.
Still need to add the PDF file that dr. Retsky sent, but need to go for the rest of the day
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Sassy, I'm so relieved you are feeling better! The topic box looks great. It's good that you added Dr. Retsky's talk. I do have one other thread you might want to add, which summarized some of the general review papers on anesthesia and cancer recurrence: https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/...
Glad you are back!
Solfeo, I hope you can just relax and rest up this weekend! You've done a lot of work getting to this point, and now that you have done everything you possibly could to improve your odds and put a great plan in place, I hope you'll be able to just veg-out and recharge your batteries. I think what you've posted (and what Stephmoen and Rainnyc have shared) will be very helpful to many other women down the line!
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falls--done
Thanks, the stone thing is just getting old. Only 5% of women get them. I'm sure it's do to something related to all this chit. BC or Thyroid or drugs. Regretfully, can help someone on this subject too. Real and book.123 & Falls, link each other all round. That way if any fall off the first page of the science forum, they don't get lost in time. Cut and paste from my box to respective opposite boxes. Me to both of yours, 123 to Falls, and Falls to 123. Then the circle is complete.
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Sassy, O.K., I added links!
Solfeo, I love your idea for a survey thread to track peoples' experiences with the anesthesia process (requesting it, getting it, and the outcomes).
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Add link?! Seriously?0
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goodness, solfeo and falls, you gals sent your message by ESP. I got it about two hours ago LOL. Yes, another thread strictly for tracking. Form style. I'll start it. I've been thinking for a couple hours. Then we can link it where needed. Plus, I'll ask Retsky and Forget to give a last look for suggestions. this is a long term type concept. it will have questions re: recurrence. That can be filled in at a future time OR NEVER...... or something like 'still clear'.
Frankly, I never understood why BCO never developed a questionnaire that covered all the same material as the Nurse's study. Even though we already have cancer, trends could be found. Then it would be interesting to compare to existing info that has been accumulated form the nurses study.
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123, just the URL and name of thread. Look how I linked your thread. Falls has more. You can just Cut and paste from my box to yours. I'm thinking you thought the whole box? was that why you reacted... Seriously?!..........
or are you pulling my leg?
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Solfeo what does the research say about Ultram/tramadol. Decent drug. Non opiod. I think needs a bit of adjustment to get used to it. First contact a few years ago, I said this was not a drug for me. But this year I was just tired of the pain. I have used it intermittently and a two month period of daily. Gave up on the daily. Constipation. I lost part of my colon to Celebrex. Wasn't willing to loose anymore.
I process meds differently. Two cytochrome450 enzyme abnormalities. Teeny percent of population. LOL I'm special........
Falls, Rainey,Stephy, 123 comments on Tramadol research? Any other pain control drug suggestions.
I still haven't read your thread Falls, concentration is not at it's finest.
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Sassy, glad you're back in fighting form. Where are the references to the Tramadol research? Sorry if I'm being dense (always a possibility).
I did go back to the surgeon Friday and received the very good news that my pathology report showed no evidence of disease anywhere. Lymph nodes clear on both sides. Got the drains out, too. So all in all, a good visit--though of course with that news and the fact that the surgeon was telling me while picking steri-strips off my chest I didn't ask him more about Toradol, which I'd meant to do.
Don't get me wrong; I'm overjoyed with the path report. And I truly think this surgeon is a nice guy; he seemed as happy with the news as I was, and I'm sure they love to deliver the good news, in a field where the opposite is more often the case. I just wish that the patient/doctor relationship wasn't fraught with such inequality: he, in surgical coat, standing over me, on my back on a table, wincing from the (minor) pain. Sigh. Still, I will take the news.
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Rainnyc, WOW excellent news. Incredible entering the next phase with that kind of report. (Just got happy shivers). .....Yes, they're is a power dynamic. It's difficult to describe the shift over the decades. In the 70's few had the idea that they wouldn't just do what the doc said. Fewer still had the idea of searching for information. If one chose to search, getting access to more than general info through the public library was all the general population could expect. Access to medical libraries was limited to medical and nursing.
Really wasn't till the 1990's with the PC and Internet that searching started to influence the doctor patient dynamic. In that time, it was interesting listening to docs reactions re: patients that came in with info found on the net. Some dealt well with it. Others were threatened. Then into the 2000's and now, docs have to be prepared for patients presenting as we all here do. Prepared.
With office visits the list of what you want to discuss is important. It's so easy to get diverted by what's occurring during the visit. If I go without a list, I always forget something I wanted to chat about. If I've forgotten the list, I write my questions on the white paper on the exam table. The first time I did that, the docs reaction was very interesting. I even have taken to doing it from my prepared list. Then before I let them out of the room, I say something about checking off my list. Then saying"'Okay, I'm done". I shift the dynamic. I'm letting them go, they aren't letting me go. I haven't actually put this into words this way before, but in mulling it while writing, it's true. I feel a sense of comfortable closure of the visit.
If you really want to even the playing field, buy a white warm up jacket at the local uniform store. Please do, LOL. If the doc has a white jacket on, you put yours on. If they don't have one on, don't wear it. Or if you really want to change the dynamic, you have yours on when they don't. Some peoples reaction would be that this wouldn't influence the situation. It does. All medical students and many nursing students are directed from day one to have a jacket for patient contacts. It's a subliminal thing. Also, if they are standing, you stand. Seated, you sit. Laying on your back always shifts the dynamic in favor of the standing person.
A couple of books on dynamics, I read as a young one are as good today as first written. "Games People Play", and "I'm Okay, You're Okay". I gave both books to DS when he was in law school.
On the Tramadol. I haven't been able to get to the opiod research. I know all of you have (Falls, 123 , Solfeo, Stephy, you). Tramadol is a good drug. I am guesstimating that it's been looked at in light of the opiod research.
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Okey dokey-----------got started
Topic: Discussion Topic: Record of Surgical Managemet, and Recurrence
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/835528
Topic: Record of Surgical Managemet, and Recurrence
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/835525?page=1#post_4516040
I put them in the topic box here, Suggest you put them in your respective topic threads.
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taking a break LOL always a good idea when confused about what it was you were doing
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Hi Sassy, that's great that you've gotten the ball rolling on the new thread!
I'm trying to remember where I read things about tramadol...but I definitely put it in the "good" anesthesia column.
Here are two mentions of tramadol I could find again:
"Morphine Use in Cancer Surgery"
"Tramadol is a low-affinity mu opioid receptor agonist with complementary central inhibition of serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake (Leppert, 2009). Tramadol not only improved immune function in animals (Sacerdote et al., 1999; Tsai and Won, 2001) but also reduced postoperative immunosuppression in patients undergoing surgery for uterine carcinoma, while providing analgesic efficacy comparable to that of morphine (Vickers and Paravicini, 1995; Stamer et al., 1997; Hopkins et al., 1998; Sacerdote et al., 2000; Hadi et al., 2006)."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC315159...
(Afsharimani, 2011)
and
"Are we causing the recurrence-impact of perioperative period on long-term cancer prognosis:Review of current evidence and practice"
"Mild MOR agonist tramadol also has noradrenergic and serotonergic activity. It stimulates NK cell activity. In a rat model, tramadol has been shown to block the enhancement of lung metastasis induced by surgery.[41] Morphine (10 mg) and tramadol (100 mg) were compared in hysterectomy patients for uterine carcinoma. T-lymphocyte proliferation was found to be depressed in both the groups, but remained so only in the morphine group.[42]"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC400963...
(Das, 2014)
I did read that tramadol can cause more nausea than other anesthesia, but I imagine you already know whether it affects you that way!
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Hmmm sounds like a question for Forget
Re: Tramadol with it agonist on " "Mild MOR agonist tramadol also has noradrenergic and serotonergic activity" That aspect acts similarly to SNRI's. It's why I gave it a chance for every day pain control. ----------My counselor and I explored it. We laughed. I said it made me mellow and great pain control, if I took it in the am. Then b/c of my weird metabolism, it was good till the next am. He also, Identified that it had an effect of reducing OCD. We laughed again.
So wish I could take it daily....................won't......................wish,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,won't
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Solfeo is that next wed, or yesterday, when yesterday was today?
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I think Solfeo is having her surgery today! Hope it goes flawlessly!
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Solfeo, best wishes.
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Solfeo: that's great news! Wishing you a speedy recovery.
I had out-patient surgery to remove a cyst on my back yesterday. As I was being discharged, the nurse handed me a script for Norco. I mentioned my neurologist's advice to use Toradol instead. The nurse wasn't familiar with Toradol and I didn't think this was the time or place to get into all the research on the recurrence issue, so we settled on tramadol. I like it much better than Norco. It's not a migraine trigger and doesn't cause that sluggish feeling.
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Solfeo, Dr. Retsky passed this on. Thought you might get a kick out of it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkKEFF_c0yo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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