My choice--refusing treatment
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Oh wow! Thank you for sharing this Lori! Interesting! So how did you know you needed to take that many boxes of the paragone? And will it harm a person to take it if they don’t have a parasite?
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does anyone have a good protocol on how to cleanse yr liver
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I didn’t know that I had parasites except that I felt I may have been experiencing symptoms. The paragon is a parasite cleanse that is a popular seller in the health food stores around here and isn’t known to be harmful when used. I was under the guidance of a naturopath and he made sure that I took breaks between the 3 doses. I showed him my result pics after the first 2 doses and he suggested I repeat it one more time. After the 3rd time, I haven’t found any more, and that was over 6 months ago. I also don’t suffer from bloating and gas like I used to. This product is used by people that don’t know if they have parasites. Most people don’t know they have them but it is very common to have some in North America. Liver Fluke are less common and most people wouldn’t expect they have them. I was glad I took it. I can’t imagine if I didn’t get rid of the Liver Flukes! Another sign was that my liver enzymes were high. After my cleanses, they were within normal range. Very creepy experience though, but well worth going through!
Lori
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hi Lori!
Wow! That fluke is insane!!! You must’ve been freaked out I am sure to know that was living in your body??
There’s a great podcast on radiolab about parasites, and specifically the life cycle of flukes in the human body. You may or may not find it as fascinating as I do:
Question about the fluke: did you take it in to an infectious disease doctor to have it analyzed? I work with a lot of people who I encourage to do so when they find some type of strange looking anomaly in their fecal matter. Curious as to how it went for you after you found the one fluke! And there was just one???
Thanks for sharing about Dr. Moss- I read his Q&A on the GOOP website and really appreciate his insight and perspectives. This is what I read: https://goop.com/wellness/health/cancer-decisions-what-to-do-post-diagnosis/
Seems like he is not an advocate of only using “alternative” methods to treat cancer though? Or did I read that incorrectly?
Sending positivity and hope to all that are refusing treatment! I wish I felt comfortable being stage 4 doing so, but it just isn’t an option for me. I definitely don’t want to be on my meds but they have saved my life and brought me back from being quite sick and not realizing it!
If I were stage 1, I would try everything under the sun to heal without conventional medicine and completely understand why folks go this route.
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There were several, to the point that I stopped looking every day. It was way too traumatizing for me! I found the first of them after a couple of weeks of treatment. I called my family Dr. right away and she said to put them in a container and bring them in. She also gave me a stool sample kit which I returned to her the following day. She sent them to be checked out right away. A week later her office called me back and said that I didn’t have parasites and that what I gave her was vegetable matter! I laughed and said, “Are you serious??” I was glad that I took pics so I went to my naturopathic Dr. with them. He knew they were Flukes. I also had taken actual worms in to her, which I also found. Sorry to be gross, but I’ll attach a few more pics of the ones I brought in to my Family Dr., which they all came back as “vegetable matter”!0 -
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Hi Lori:
Wow that is amazing! Thank you for sharing that additional information! It sounds safe to try! That is great it worked for you!
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so interesting! Lori - just curious as to why your family doctor would say it is vegetable matter after looking at them under a microscope? Doesn't that seem odd? Did the ND look at the samples under a microscope?
I see the photos, and I'm not saying that you're Nd is wrong, but something just doesn't add up! I don't know why your doctor would lie?
I've had similar experiences with a couple patients who shown me similar pictures of what look exactly the same as yours, like worms. Never seen the slugs. They too were told at one of the top rated infectious disease centers in philly that it wasn't parasites.
Meanwhile, a lot of "alternative" practitioners ascribe to the parasite hypothesis.
Interesting issue
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I took them to my Family Dr. and she sent them in to whoever does the checking for parasites in stool samples. I don’t know if it was infectious Diseases. I would imagine it was. When her office called me and said that they were all vegetative matter, I lost interest in going deeper with them. It was obvious to me. The pics show only the few I gave to my Dr. There were several of all those types. I think it’s probably worth stopping in to get the actual report so I do know who she’s sent the stool sample and actual parasites to. I’m just glad they are gone now! Lol. I’ll update within the next couple of days, after I get a copy of the report.
Lori
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I wondered if you all saw this study last night?
Even includes no sugar added fruit juice!😳
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I'm a believer in everything in moderation not total abstinence. Grape juice has been shown to be heart healthy. I love grape juice and drink it every day.
There are a zillion studies on everything so you can pick the one you will live by. To each his/her own. I drink diet cokes every now and then but I mostly drink sparkling ice drinks in different flavors. So good and refreshing. Zero sugar btw.
I’ll be 8 years out next month
Diane
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“However, this study is observational and doesn't show cause and effect.
That's a major limitation, researchers say, as it's impossible to determine whether the association is due to a type of beverage or another hidden health issue.”
Just another poorly written article for click bait.
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Funny, I drank grape juice everyday and got breast cancer twice. While a very active person most of my life, I also ate a ton of sugar everyday since I loved to bake, made homemade ice cream every week, drank juices and soda, cookies, cakes, pies, muffins, etc. I also ate a lot of pasta. I was not raised to eat a lot of sugar, but I have craved it since I was a kid. My dad was tall and slim. However he drank a ton, ate bags of candy every day driving in the car as a salesman, smoked, and ate a lot of ice cream. He also ate nutritiously as well. My mom was tiny and did not have a sweet tooth. I apparently took after my dad except I never drank nor smoked except for a very short time in high school.
About a 1 1/2 ago, I swore off sugar, red meat, any alcohol, pasta, etc. I dropped over 45 lbs. Yes, I am thin now. I have posted before I no longer have migraines, joint aches, bruising, mood swings, inability to sleep, and inflammation. My nails grow now. I sleep like a baby. I feel exactly the same everyday. No pain. No anxiety. I also fast. I only eat between noon and 6 pm. If asked out to dinner, I make exceptions to schedule so as not to be a PITA.
I also exercise a lot. I go to the gym every day and ride my bike outdoor 20-30 miles a day. I am significantly stronger than I was pre cancer. I just turned 67 today. I am very fit.
That being said, I am sure I still have cancer cells. We all do according to the late David Servan Schreiber MD PhD. He managed to live 20 yrs after brain cancer diagnosis. My oncologist believes my cancer will come back. I have had 2 oncologists with both believing it will return because I have refused conventional treatment. Buck the system and be prepared to feel major pushback by the medical community. I was told by my newest oncologist I was by myself refusing treatment as most eventually give in. He asked if I would give in. Yikes.
I have watched some very interesting documentaries the past couple months and read some great books. On Netflix I would recommend The C Word, The Long Goodbye, Ask The Doctor, The Users Guide to Cheating Death, 9 Mos that made you, What the Health, Forks Over Knives, to name a few really terrific shows. Now I am reading Anti Cancer A New Way of Life. Just finished Chris Beat Cancer. I have posted before about other books I would recommend. I have read about 10 books this year and countless articles. Each a different journey.
Hope everybody is having a great summer.
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Finally made it into my Dr's. office to get my stool sample report. The one that was unbelievable (pics above)!! It basically stated that there were no parasites found. I talked to the nurse at the desk and she said that the sample doesn't go to "Infectious Control" unless there is suspicious findings. She said that it goes to the same place that they send blood work or biopsies to, for testing. So I guess they did the testing on my biopsy!!! I hope they were more thorough for that!!! Anyways, she recommended that I go the this particular lab, which is about a half hour from my house, and show them the pics of my findings that I sent into their lab and ask them how it could come back negative, as it was obvious to her that there was a big parasite problem. The part that rubs me the wrong way is that I shouldn't have to go in there to make sure that someone is doing their job properly. Now that I no longer have the problem, at least as far as I know, it seems a waste of time, but I will probably go in to see them next time I am in the area anyways.
Edwards 750, I agree that there is bad in almost everything and also good in almost everything. It's all up to quantity, really. What can trigger cancer in one, may not in another. What my seem to improve one's cancer situation, may not improve someone else's. Too much of a good thing isn't always good. I drink sparkling flavoured water too and love it. There doesn't seem to be negative reports on that! I had a friend who's grandpa got lung cancer, even though he never smoked a day. He then went on a grape diet. Only ate grapes for months. It gave him awful sores in his mouth. He refused all conventional treatment for the cancer. Went back for testing 6 months later and they couldn't find any sign of cancer. It would have been nice to follow his long term results but his car was hit by a gravel truck 3 months later and he died instantly. Was quite a shocker for everyone that knew him, and left his family with the question, "Why?" Life doesn't always seem fair!
1redgirl, That's amazing how you cleaned up your diet and lost all that weight and your ailments! I think it's safer for your Oncologists to say that your cancer will come back, than to say that it won't. If they say it won't, and it does, that would make them look very bad and it puts their reputation and occupation at risk. If they say that it will, they can't really be proven wrong because if you die before it comes back, they can say that, if you lived longer, it would have come back. No one can prove them wrong. They don't look bad if they say it that way. No one ever got mad at their Dr. for saying their cancer would come back and it didn't. The anger only goes the other way. I think that when it seems that the world is against you for not going conventional, it is likely that sooner or later you get discouraged and give in, as your new Oncologist stated. Sad, but true. I think people that decide to go strictly alternative should be able to enjoy their right to do so. I'm grateful for this "Alternative Medicine" forum where we can share our experiences with each other. Thanks all, for sharing!
Lori
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BC is definitely not the one size, fits all disease. Time after time I’ve read posts like some of these where the person lives the healthy life and still gets the beast. What the heck? Of course you do all those healthy things for other reasons but it’s still troubling when you didn’t set yourself up for it. Thing is none of us did. Oncologists are at a loss as to why some people dodge BC when all the so called stats say otherwise.
The criteria they use is just an educated guess and flawed at best. Throw in family history as a factor yet they say 70% of BC cases are not genetically driven. My sister and I fall into the 30% category. We both got it because our mother had it or so they say. Regardless we got it.
You just live your life the best you can and enjoy life. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?
Diane
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Diane, the thing about risk models is that they are not absolute. One person might have a 90% chance of developing breast cancer (BRCA+ plus other high risk conditions and a high risk lifestyle, for example). Another person might have a 3% chance of developing breast cancer (no risk factors other than being female and getting older, and a pristine lifestyle). Obviously the first person is at significantly higher risk than the second person, but it could turn out that the first person doesn't develop breast cancer but the second person does. This doesn't mean that the risk models and the criteria evaluated were wrong. It's just a question of odds. The first person, although very high risk, still has a 10% chance of never developing breast cancer. And the second person, although very low risk, still has a 3% chance of developing breast cancer. So if the first person is lucky and the second person is unlucky.... But it doesn't mean that the assessments of their risk were wrong.
The best I can tell, breast cancer develops because of a confluence of factors. As an example, someone who is BRCA positive starts off with one defective gene - this is the gene that controls the growth and management of breast tissue. This alone doesn't mean that she will develop breast cancer. What it means is that if her other copy of the same gene also craps out (we have two copies of the gene), then she will develop breast cancer. What might cause this other copy of the gene to fail? Aging is the big one that hits most of us - some of our genes wear out and simply stop functioning properly as we get older. Accumulated lifetime estrogen overload might do it. If she has dense breasts, the biology within her body that causes the breast density might do it. Or maybe it was exposure to radiation. Or exposure to environmental toxins. Or consumption of foods that drive biological/molecular changes that cause more estrogen (or something else) that down the line triggers a change in this gene. Most likely, it's a combination of factors that each directly or indirectly make a small change that weakens or damages the gene, until one day, the gene gives up and cries uncle. Once the gene fails, there is nothing controlling the growth of breast tissue cells and the environment is ripe for cancer cells to thrive and spread.I believe the process is the same for those who do not carry a known breast cancer gene. It's an accumulation of factors that together wear down the genes, cause failure, and allow breast cancer cells to develop and grow. As for which factors, it's probably a different combination for everyone. There is a long list - let's say 75 items - that are known to increase breast cancer risk. This includes things that are inherent to us as humans (we age) and females (we have estrogen), things that we are exposed to (those canned foods we ate as kids, toxins in the air as we take a walk around the neighbourhood) and things that we consume (even fruit juice, it seems). It includes factors that have a direct impact - radiation, for example, might directly harm the cells. And it includes factors that have an indirect, convoluted impact; no one knows why alcohol slightly increases breast cancer risk and it appears to be through a multi-step process. Most importantly, not everything on the list affects everyone. For each of us, there are tick marks by some of the items on the list. These are the items that affect us personally by impacting and changing our genes or cells. My tick marks will be different than your tick marks. Then it's a question of how much we are exposed to and affected by each of these factors with the tick marks, and whether in total the damage caused reaches a level that allows breast cancer to develop and thrive. Most women never get to this level of exposure. Someone who is obese and has terrible eating habits might appear to be high risk, but it's possible that her breast cancer risk isn't affected by any of these factors - no tick marks on these items. Those of us here all reached that unlucky combination of factors that finally created an environment that allowed breast cancer to develop. But which factors caused it, and in what quantities of exposure, it's impossible to ever know. And it's different for every one of us.
All that to say that the risk models and the lists of things that drive breast cancer risk aren't wrong. But they are broad and population based - they can't be applied to any one individual. And in the end, whatever the odds we face from our unique combination of risk factors, some of us end up being lucky and some of us end up being unlucky.
Edited for typos/grammar only (gotta love autocorrect, or not!)
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As always, you have written a very logical, reasonable explanation, Beesie. It is interesting to me as my fraternal twin sister was diagnosed at age 42 and I was diagnosed at 52. She was obese and I was overweight. She didn’t drink and I did. We both had children after 30. She did do IVF in the 2 years before her diagnosis, so even though I didn’t believe it caused her cancer, I knew that it may have fueled it. She was stage 3, then progressed to stage 4 within a year, though probably stage 4 already, but not yet detectable. We both tested negative for BRCA but my father passed from pancreatic cancer, his brother from colon cancer and their mother had breast cancer, so there is obviously a genetic component. Your post helps me to explain why my sister and I were diagnosed 10 years apart even though ostensibly we were exposed to the same risk factors growing up. Thank you.0
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Beesie is always a wealth of information. Thanks Beesie. I have the same issue with my sister and me. She was DX in 2012 with ILC. She has now had her second recurrence this time to her stomach. She just finished her second round of chemo. It’s heartbreaking. I was DX in 2011 with IDC. So far, so good for me. We had the same mother who had BC in her late 60’s. She passed away but not from BC.
She lived a much healthier lifestyle than me. Go figure.
Diane
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You're right, Bessie! Percentages don't apply to any one individual. If you have BC, then YOUR chance of getting it was 100%. If in the end, you didn't get it, then your chance was 0%. There are a lot of lucky ones out there that have lived through hell (high stress) and had no clue about what to do and what not to do pertaining to health, and they never ended up with cancer.
I'm curious, edwards750, did your sister chose to make the same health changes that you did? If I recall, you are really into broccoli sprouts and changing your eating habits. What is your perspective on that, if you don't mind me asking?
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I do not blame myself for getting cancer. I still love and trust my body. But I am sure my diet and health practices did not help me fight cancer, until I changed them.
I want my diet and practices to be assisting me. I don't view it as a hardship to be very mindful of nutrient density and variety of the foods I eat. I might as well support all the processes that attack cancer and input the supplements that can weaken cancer. Why not?? It's no-lose!!
I loosen up a bit here and there so as not to be the sort of hard to include person who always needs a special meal.. I went out last night and had chips and a cocktail along with my very healthy dinner! So I am not draconian on myself. But my daily routines have become much more conscious, clean, and self-caring. Binging on sugar is self comforting, but it is not self caring. You can have 10 chips instead of the whole bag. You can have a cocktail biweekly, rather than nightly.
Maybe some of us have weaker immune systems than others and that's why our cancer gets going. Maybe it's some sort of tissue insensitivity or sensitivity to hormones. I had exposure to an endocrine disruptor (DES) which is my most obvious risk factor; but any small break in any chain can drive a mutated cell, a sleepy immune system, a hypoxic or inflamed microenvironment friendly to cancer.
Two super responder types I know who totally beat cancer both told me they thought mental positivity, a reason for living, and focusing on joy and meaning TODAY were their best anti cancer practices. A buoyant attitude and proactivity go hand in hand.
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I'm one of the unlucky ones, for sure. I'm 46, have worked as a fitness professional for the past 25 years so loads of physical activity, have always eaten a very clean, whole foods diet with VERY minimal meat and dairy, never been a drinker of alcohol(don't like it), never smoked, never took any form of birth control or any other med for that matter, haven't used conventional deodorant for about a decade, heck, never even wore underwire bras! No family history in a family with a LOT of women. Still got this dreaded disease. I did use conventional shampoos, conditioners, and cleaning products, so who knows.
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Santabarbarian,
I love your attitude toward eating. It's not compulsive and you allow yourself “treats". It's funny that you mentioned 10 chips. Some years ago a member, who was trying hard to maintain a strict and very limited diet, posted about how guilty she felt about eating... 10 chips! She was really beating herself up over those chips. That's the kind of compulsive attitude toward food that puts me off. BTW, I actually tried a diet, that included a long list of “no-no's", but was supposed to be anti-cancer, early on in my diagnosis. I was miserable, I fought with my dd's who were sort of being food monitors and was generally unhappy. My habits are more balanced now, not compulsive and allows for treats and enjoyment of food (both for nutrition and socializing).
Kec1972,
You sound very much like my sister*. She lived “clean" before most people even understood what that meant. Shortly after her 50th birthday, she was diagnosed with a uterine sarcoma and was dead within four months of her dx. I had no quibble with her lifestyle, as she felt very comfortable with it, but it gave her the false impression that she would never get a dreaded disease like cancer and even if she did, her super fortified immune system could fight it off. To say she wasi stunned by her dx would be an understatement. She felt a real sense of betrayal, not only by her body, but by that vague promise that her diet/lifestyle could keep disease at bay or at the very least, make it a fight that she could “win" with good habits.
Again, I am not suggesting that we lead unhealthy lifestyles, but compulsive habits, restrictive diets etc. do not hold any charms for me, and are guarantees of nothing.
*Not suggesting that you will meet the same fate ☺️.
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My sister didn’t drink or smoke or eat desserts much, etc and she and I both got BC. I did all of the above. Ours is likely from our mother having it however, my sister is having the worst of it. 2 recurrences in 7 years. She’s now undergoing chemo. Ugh.
For me I’ll be 8 years out next month. Granted 2 kinds of BC for us but still the same mother. Doesn’t seem fair. I am heartbroken formy sister and what she is going through.
Diane
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L-O-R-I, thanks for all your posts... I am trying both conventional and alternatives ... I see you posted about Lymph drainage.
Take a look at Dr. Perry's work Lymphatic MoJo, it's pretty mind blowing ... other doctors had him near death, until he found his MoJo.
Stop Chasing Pain
https://www.stopchasingpain.com/
Perry Nickelston, DC, NKT, FMS, SFMA, is a Chiropractic Physician with primary focus on Performance Enhancement, Corrective Exercise, and Metabolic Fitness Nutrition and trained from The American College of Addictionology and Compulsive Disorders. He is an expert in myofascial, orthopedic, medical and trigger point soft tissue therapy. A member of the Board of Directors and Medical Staff Advisor for AIMLA (American Institute of Medical Laser Application). Dr. Perry teaches healthcare professionals all over the world how to successfully use Class IV Deep Tissue Laser Therapy in alleviating pain. Director of clinical protocols and training for LiteCure Medical Lasers specializing in Myofascial Laser treatments.
Etc etc etc....
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I am also choosing the natural holistic healing route. It's a journey that requires lots of self love, patience, persistence, self care, spiritual practice, and a willingness to put life first and let go of anything in yourself that does not align with love. I started a YouTube channel to document my healing journey:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRB7XXqcyKhXvBaM5W9DbLA?view_as=subscriber
I hope it helps provide some support and insights to those interested in expanding their minds to holistic healing! Much love and blessings to you all on your journeys!
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I am going the natural route too. I chose no radiation or meds. I did have surgery...lumpectomy. I am a plant based eater....live a very healthy life or so I think?
I wanted to share something that happened this morning....this is something most people probably never think about.
This morning my husband and I were out picking cane berries and over our head flew a helicopter...literally OVER OUR HEAD. Our neighbor had NOT NOTIFIED US that they were spraying either pesticide or herbicide today on their christmas trees. I was furious......mostly because I felt so violated as the spray was coming down nearly on top of us (he over sprayed onto one of our pastures).
This is something that I think we take for granted....our air...that it is clean. It doesn't seem to matter where people live now....our air isn't really very clean.
Just wanted to share....I am sorry I am probably off topic. Hope you are all having a good weekend. Sending hugs to you all.
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I have never taken for granted that the air is clean. Quite the opposite, in fact. I assume it is not.
See my July 14th post above. "...toxins in the air as we take a walk around the neighbourhood"
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Definately agree Beesie.......but not all are like us. Sorry I probably phrased what I said above wrong. I think many people just take for granted our air is clean. But it isn't. I think especially in America.....the powers that be allow stuff to be sprayed that should not be sprayed etc....
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Yes, things are sprayed that shouldn't be sprayed. And airplanes fly overhead and who knows what they emit. Then there are the emissions from factories (although there is a lot less of that than in the 50s and 60s). And cars and buses and trucks on the road. And cows! 😉
But is it worse here? Try Russia or China!
So we do whatever we can to try to live and eat as healthily as we can, but we have to realize that we live in a world that has been industrialized for a long time, and as a result, it's a pretty dirty world. That's part of the reason why I don't get fussed over diet - I try to have a good diet, but I eat what I enjoy (in moderation). Between my genetic make up and the environment, I figure that I can't control 80% of the factors that might give me cancer, so I will manage but not go crazy over the 20%. That's my way of looking at it.
As for the environment, we have to realize that initially all these harmful things that we are surrounded by were thought to be good. They were advances that made crops stronger and more plentiful, making food cheaper and allowing more people to get enough food. Or advances that preserved food better and wasted less. Or advances that saved time and allowed women to get out of the house and into the workforce. For example, it's easy now to look back at some of the stuff that came out in the sixties and wonder "what the heck?" but at the time, those things changed the way we live, usually in a good way.
It's certainly complicated.
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I agree with you ladies! We never know how and when we get exposed to carcinogens. It’s such an invasion! I believe that the big food growers are well aware of the dangers of what they are adding on totheir produce before, during, and after harvest. We can’t control so much of it, but I strongly believe that we need to keep our bodies in a detoxed state, as much as possible, so that we can handle the the worst of these chemicals when they come into our bodies. Jon’s girl, I would have had a heart attack if I saw the spraying over top of my head. I would definitely find out what was in it and the dangers of it. How dangerous was it? There will be information on it. Unbelievable!! I bet the owners were indoors during the spraying. Maybe they do it often and you aren’t even aware of it. I would find out for sure. Grrrrr!!!
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