Anyone ElseTerrified about Repeal of ACA Bill
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looking forward to the replacement that will allow for cross state border policies and drive the price down. the cost is extreme of aca and for the money I pay, we gave gained no benefit beyond not being penalized on my taxes. I'm hopeful and looking forward to a better replacement.
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Bevin, the replacement has failed twice. It won't be brought up again, if ever, for more than a year.
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I think so too pupmom. The repubs and Trump have suffered a huge loss and need time for this to become "forgotten" before trying yet again. Now it's tax reform to benefit corporations and the rich, but that's for another thread.
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An executive order, if he actually can do it for this, is not a replacement. It's a tweak.
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While the ACA is far from perfect, the Republican plan is painfully embarrassing and down right disgraceful.
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Voracious...quite the little rant re: Canada. Apparently someone in your family had a difficult experience and for you that means an entire system is wrong? I am sorry that happened for them. It wouldn't ever happen in the US? I never said the Canadian system is flawless...and I am also certain that families experience the same frustration with overwhelmed or young or "foreign" healthcare providers in the US. There are a number of posts on this board sharing those experiences.
I am a dual citizen and pay taxes in both countries. I am also someone who has worked on the "frontlines" of both healthcare systems and been a patient in both countries. I worked with, and was a patient of doctors trained in Canada and "foreign countries" while in the US . I have actually worked with many physicians in Canada, who are American, having moved here for family life choices, after completing training in the US. In fact my current family physician is from Michigan and trained at UCLA. Never once have I questioned why "they don't help their own people"...I just don't have the mindset of health, skills, or commitment to others being restricted by a line on a map. In fact, I came to Canada, to fill a healthcare position that no one in Canada accepted. I had the skills and the interest to do the job. I believe that healthcare is a human issue, period.
Yes, you are 100% correct, the wait times for many things in Canada are longer than in the US. A problem that is constantly an issue. For many things, it is slowly getting better, but has a long way to go.
However, no one here has to open their wallets to take their child or themselves to see a doctor, get care in a hospital, urgent care or walk in clinic, get lab work, get surgery, get chemo, get procedures such as a mammo, colonoscopy, xray, an MRI, a bone scan, receive chemo....etc., etc. For me, that is an acceptable scenario.
I was born with a clef palate and other complications. My family was extremely poor, to the point of receiving "food boxes" from charities, even though my father was employed full-time and was a Veteran of WWII. It wasn't until I was an adult, and going through some family papers, that I discovered that one of the reasons for our "extended poverty" was because of the multiple surgeries and care that I required as an infant. My parents and extended families used every available $, charity help and bank loans that took years to pay off, to get me the care I needed. In Canada, in our "socialized medicine" (an incorrect description, actually), I would have received that care without financially devastating and demeaning my family.
I've clearly seen and experienced both versions of healthcare systems...I have no illusions in which works for me.
I'll leave you to your discussion.
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Excellent post nihahi. I have stayed out of this because I am Australian. I just want to chime in on the wait times issue with universal health care. Here, if it is urgent, then no wait time at all. I found my lump Sat night, was dxd on Monday, and had a MX the following Monday. In between I had a biopsy, ct scan, bone scan, heart scan and two meetings with one of the best breast surgeons in the country. All of this was in the public system with zero dollar cost to me. Our healthcare is covered by our taxes.
I read of so many women on this site waiting for weeks just for an appointment for a mammo or U/S, then another long wait for results.
Healthy citizens equal a healthy society in my opinion, and healthcare should not be dependent on how wealthy you are.
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ni... There are so many issues to discuss that it would take days for me to answer....that said, i am happy that you and others are pleased with government healthcare... not so, according to some...and a real potentially explosive situation as the populations of both countries age....
Furthermore...i brushed on the ethical issues which do not concern you and others but should be addressed with respect to developing countries...
https://bmchealthservres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12913-016-1908-2
Another ethical issue that I have is that some here in the States don't care about younger people signing up for the healthcare and their willingness to pay the penalty. The larger ethical issue is that those who don't sign up and helping the ACA collapse sooner than later...
Another issue is taxes... for my Canadian family members, having most of their education and healthcare paid for was wonderful...until they entered the workforce. Unfortunately, in Quebec, the taxes and government regulations were draconian that it made it difficult for the younger generation to grow small businesses. Voila...some have come to the United States to seek their fortunes...
https://globalnews.ca/news/3760022/tax-reform-mat-leave-benefits-doctors-women-small-businesses/
Still, more Canadians enter the United States for clinical care and experimental treatment. The latter...don't you think is quite important?
Now...what do I admire about the Canadian system that I wish the US would adapt? The Canadian government does crunch data, like the US, and their standard of care, developed from the data does, IMHO, serve Canadians better than our system that is invaded by politicians and advocacy groups that ultimately leads to unnecessary screening and care, which ultimately reduces funds for research....
And...another issue here in the States that makes the Canadian system unlikely to work is our population is over 325 million compared to...what..35 million in Canada.....If the United States ever wanted to offer universal tax paid healthcare, it would put itself in a permanent depression. And who would it hurt the most? Those younger folks just beginning their careers...those same young who have large student loans to pay off...soooo...maybe we should also offer free tuition, that is tax paid education for all of our students...again...once they get in the work force and they see what they pay in taxes and want to start small businesses....welll...now do you understand that NOTHING happens in a vacuum and there are so many moving parts?
Lastly...one of those family members who left Canada for good is a pediatric oncologist in Boston. She got a Fellowship at Dana Farber, married an American and is finished with Canada. Her parents? Delighted! All of their children have immigrated to the US and the parents are now snowbirds...if you think I am ranting here, how do you think I feel when I am with them? Any idea how I can drag them back over the border....
https://www.ft.com/content/38513e9a-a029-11e6-86d5-4e36b35c3550
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bo..employer healthcare is a thing of the past. Today, only 54% of employers offer insurance with many employees paying partial premiums...with Obamacare, it was incumbent for young people to buy health insurance in order for Obamacare to work.
What you have is a very complex ethical issue at play. In fact Libertarians are nuts over the idea that the government force people to sign up for health insurance.
https://www.lp.org/issues/healthcare/
But people must understand that Obamacare was fatally flawed from it's inception due to many reasons and the elephant in the room was the inability to persuade young people that it was an OBLIGATION to join. I do not blame anyone for not joining. I blame Obama for creating this mess. But then it becamean ethical issue...does one think of themselves and choose not to sign on and pay a penalty or does one recognize that to make a healthcare insurance system have the potential to work sign on for the greater good of the society? I don't have the answer...
I will also mention a similar ethical issue...vaccinations and herd immunity....in order for vaccinations to protect society, that is, those children who are too young to have all their vaccinations, frail and elderly, there is a minimum number of people in the rest of society who need to take a small risk and be vaccinated to protect others...soooo...one asks, to be a part of society, how much active participation is needed of me for the greater good?
The ethical issues are the same...
Just a thought...
More reading....Eula Biss, On Immunity....brilliant book on ethics and vaccinations....
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exactly...the flaw was that there was an obligation to join and people could not be convinced that there was a moral reason to do it. That is why Obamacare is unsustainable. Nothing can convince enough people to join, henceforth, it will fail. There will not be a compromise. Insurance companies will not stay in the marketplace because the premiums will become unbearable for consumers to pay and the government will not be able to continue funding it.
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....A related problem is the stability of the exchanges. As noted, in 2015, 9.5 million (as opposed to an original CBO projection of 13 million) persons enrolled in the exchanges. For 2016, exchange enrollments have already fallen below the CBO's initial projections, as well as the projections of the Administration, the Urban Institute, and the Rand Corporation.[104] For 2016, the CBO initially estimated that 21 million persons were to be enrolled in the ACA exchanges; the CBO has revised that number downward to just 13 million.[105] The Obama Administration reported that 2016 enrollments reached 12.7 million, but that number surely will follow previous patterns of attrition, such as persons signing up but failing to pay their premiums...
Fail
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We got your point voracious. No one has said it's great for everyone. Like I said, at least someone put something together instead of kicking the can down the road yet again and has said IT NEEDS WORK. So yeah, it has failed some people. I'm betting it'll never be great for everyone who actually needs it. That's usually how it goes with such laws. Many benefit while many don't.
I'm sure we can all agree that AT LEAST HC is now a topic of conversation whereas before..... :crickets:
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artista...with all due respect...whether or not some people are benefiting, the program is failing. It is unsustainable and will ultimately benefit no one in its current shape. It was not viable on Day One
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The point is that the ACA needs to be improved, so why can't Congress work on it in a bipartisan manner? All I hear from Republicans is that working with Democrats is something they want to avoid at all costs. That's one reason why John McCain was not willing to support the completely partisan new legislation Repubs came up with. He wants to return to "regular order" meaning both sides of the isle put legislation together. That really shouldn't be too much to ask, SIGH.
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Again, at least Obama put something forward for which some of us who really need(ed) it has saved us. Yes it sucks for some and is good for others. Yes it won't last the way it's going. Not Obama's fault. As pupmom said, congress (repubs really) need to get their shit together and work on something before Trump succeeds in making it fail faster.
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artista...l if you look at the figures from 2016, BEFORE Trump was elected, the number of people participating was almost less than half that was projected and needed...Trump has not made it fail faster. This was a natural progression of what was doomed to fail from Day One.
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He hasn't made it fail faster-----------yet. But the enrollment dates are shorter this year and there is 0 advertising. So of course he's making it fail faster as many people do rely on ads to be reminded it's that time of the year again along with shorter time to get it all together.
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And what part of it's not a good thing for all are you missing in my post? We all know first drafts always stink. But at least Obama did something while Trump is counting down until it implodes and to blame it on Obama when in fact Obama has asked congress to work on it!
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artista...no amount of advertising can get the difference between the 13 million who signed up, up to the 21 million who need to be in the plan to make it work. Eight million? I don’t think so....
I don’t know about you, but I would NEVER proprose doing something if I knew something would fail. Obama and his cronies were well informed before passing the legislation and there was enough evidence that it was not a successful model....and yet they passed it anyway....
Blame whomever you like. Blame Trump if you think he is making it fail faster. It doesn’t matter. Only time will tell who will receive the ultimate blame for this fiasco..
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all of my doctors have suggested Women's Medicaid.........and I'm going to start investigating it Monday. BCBS has pulled out of the marketplace....at least in Metro Atlanta........so who knows. Yes, I am very concerned.
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OMG. At least he did something no one else would do. What part of that do you not get voracious?? I blame Trump deliberately trying to make it fail faster and repubtards not working with the dems to make it better for more people. There is no way there's going to be something that works good for every single person, but at least let's get those who need hc the most covered while hopefully they get to the drawing table to work through some of the FAILS of the ACA. Jeebus,.
AND for 7 years all this has been out there. Why did the repubtards sit on their hands until Trump gets in office? hmmm
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Artista...perhaps the others before him knew better? Or at least the others knew NOT to do what he insisted be done....doing something for the sake of just doing something often doesn’t work out in the end. Aren’t we in the time of reason and the scientific method? There was enough evidence to conclude that Obamacare was not a workable plan for the United States....And now...What more evidence do you need that it is a failure when BCBS decides to leave a marketplace? That should send chills up your spine. At least Trump has the guts to say, enough is enough...time to roll up our sleeves and FIX the mess created by Obama. If the political parties don’t capitulate, we all lose.
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As Artista said, repubtards, LOL, had 7 years to come up with an alternative to ACA. All they produced were plans that kicked more people off of insurance, and were supported by only about 12% of the population. Time to follow John McCain's advice and work with Dems to fix the system once and for all. But that seems anathema to the GOP.
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BB, I would like to see a bill with a Repub and a Dem on the title. Certainly would help with getting support, depending on if it is a reasonable bill, of course.
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i also think all the politicians need to show some humility and apologize to Americans. But I don’t think that will happen because they all worry about being re-elected...or worse....calling a town meeting with their constituants and getting shouted down....and where is the humility with us? Do we need to call our politicians by such idiotic names? Repubtards? Let’s show some civility and stick to the issue at hand....
I think, once everyone wakes up and realizes ACA is toast, then, and only then, will both parties realize it is time to work together at finding a solution. I think these last few years, no politician, Democratic or Republican wanted to face the music because most constituants didn’t recognize the true seriousness of what was happening. Even on this thread it has taken a long time to convince others of the pending crisis. This is not an issue that is on a continuum where there are good and bad things about it. This shouldn’t be about being terrified at a repeal. Instead we should be urging our politicians to work together and make healthcare affordable and accessable. And I hope all of you understand the minute details of the possible consequences of what a government single payer healthcare system might do to you and your loved ones.....so be careful for what you wish for.
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Voracious, I hope you are including right wing terms such as DemocRATS in your plea for civility. If not, then MEH. That said, I believe that the goal of all we breast cancer patients should be decent and affordable health care for all.
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BB, yes we are.
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Propaganda?
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Yes, that too.
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Our medical care and reseach still outshines the rest of the world! Does anyone recall the recent British Charlie Gard controversy? His short lifetime laid bare the heartbreak of socialized medicine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Gard_case
With that said, I recall a recent experience at New York's Mt. Sinai Hospital. This world class hospital is located in one of Manhattan's poorest neighborhoods. Its Cardio Department, is run by the distinguished Spanish physician, Valentin Fuster...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Fuster
On a recent visit, I was sitting in a waiting area with others whose loved oneswere undergoing serious cardiac procedures....as in...life and death procedures....
Opposite me sat a woman in tears. She spoke no English. With no other person there to comfort her, I got up and sat down next her. She then somehow communicated to me that her husband was in surgery and she wanted to know if the hospital was ok? And somehow I communicated to her that he was in perhaps the best possible place in the world in the best possible hands....and....after communicating that, she crossed her heart, looked up at the ceiling and relief swelled her body and heart....
Finally...as some of you may note from my signature, I have a rare breast cancer. I have worked closely with the rare breast cancer lab at Sloane Kettering. I was happy to have already connected with those amazing researchers BEFORE they were invited by SLoane to set up their lab. There is no other breast cancer lab like it in the world! And THAT is what sets our healthcare system apart from the world
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