Anyone else using Kratom for pain?
To start, I will say that I am frustrated beyond belief on this whole "war on opiates" thing.
I will explain why.
1. I know, I know, addiction is horrible, hard to break and all that. But when you have legitimate chronic pain patients who have to go through hoops and sometimes cannot get their pain under control because we got to this situation because of druggies, I feel like strangling someone.
2. The deaths by overdose have indeed increased tremendously in the states who have started the "war on opiates" but did not legalize marijuana. Why? Because opiate seekers as well as chronic pain patients who found themselves cut cold turkey from being able to obtain opiates legally, turned to the street drugs, heroin, the now famous dangerous fentanyl, etc. In all the states that have legalized marijuana, the number of deaths due to opiate overdose has plummeted.
I seems that the prohibition didn't teach anyone a lesson, and, as usual, decisions about peoples health and quality of life are taken by people who have no health issues.
This being said, as some of you know, for me, opiates are (or were until now) the only ones who can control the multiple causes of pain that I am struggling with after BC treatment. I can list them for you if you want. 2/3 of my torso being scar tissue that tightens over time making it at one point almost impossible for me to breathe, I have to go get massage therapy, scar tissue is loosened, I can breathe, rinse and repeat. Costochondritis - permanent inflammation of those little tendons that connect the ribs. I can't really take deep breaths because it hurts. Generalized severe rapidly advancing osteoarthritis (thank you, AIs). The worst is my cervical spine, where only the first 2 vertebrae are relatively ok, on the rest, I have spondylolistesis (vertebrae slipped out of alignment) severe narrowing of the foramens, bone spurs, severe constriction and deformity of the spinal cord. Then the same osteoarthritis in my hands, lower spine, hips, torn meniscus, etc. A spot of horrible pain that is located between the edge of the right shoulder blade and the spine - it's like I have a dagger there at all times, that someone from time to time remembers to twist forcefully - that one is from the LD reconstruction, seems that some tendons got nicked and never recovered. "Fibromyalgia" - that thing they tell you instead of "we have no idea what is going on with you so we'll say you have this". I tried all kinds of Gabapentins and Lyrica and the whole nine yards, there were 7 different meds I don't even remember. If they didn't affect my eyes (blurred vision, even pain, and I have Graves Eye disease, severe myopia and vitreous detachment on one eye) - then they didn't work at all. In one word, opiates are the only thing that make me able to move around. I live in Oklahoma. Probably, if I had kids, my great=great=grand children MIGHT see marijuana legalized. Because our prisons are privately owned. 90% of our inmates are in for drug charges, of which about 80% possession of marijuana. And our politicians corrupt. So too many pockets wouldn't be filled if cannabis were legalized.
Ok, rant over.
In short - in order for my body to not get used to the dose, 4 days a month I take no pain meds. The pain comes back with a vengeance. It's a small journey to Hell, but I've been able to not have to increase the dosage in over 5 years. A friend one time brought me some Kratom capsules for me to try.
They work. True, not as strong as opiates do, and you have to figure out which of the strains works for you, because different people react differently and need different dosages.
For now, it has not been made illegal, the DEA last year reversed the decision to try and ban it due to the results of the studies that were made on this plant.
To be honest, for my disability income, if I would have to have my pain controlled just with this herb, I would probably have to get on eating Ramen daily, flush the toilet once every other day and walk naked around the house so I wouldn't have to do laundry more than once every 6 weeks. As it is, I CAN afford to get it for those days of the month when I don't take opiates.
But, it DOES control the pain. It can have about the same effect on pain as hydrocodone (not as strong as oxycodone though) without the side effects. TBH, if I had the financial means, I would give up on opiates.
I am still in the process of trying to find out which of the several dozens of strains of the plant work the best for pain control for me. The effect is a little enhanced if you consume orange juice or turmeric.
Also, kratom has been shown to be promising in many aspects: antioxidant, with potential of stoping cancer cell proliferation,
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25081682
especially breast cancer cells. including triple negative
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19724995
Has great antibacterial properties, so it's wonderful for someone undergoing chemo or radiation
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=E44B973C0FF5DD61B3580B60BA8A123D?doi=10.1.1.396.4269&rep=rep1&type=pdf
And helps with depression and anxiety.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20869223
Anyone else here uses or ever used Kratom? I would love to be able to discuss about the efficiency of various strains on pain that they have experienced as well as dosage.
Comments
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hey seachain! howdy from tulsa. i tried the kratom for my other issue and i couldn't get the dosing or the strain right, and didn't have the patience to keep trying to figure it out. i gave my stash, (i got a great sampler of like 7 different reds and7 different greens) to one of my friends and she's swearing by it.
i also couldn't do the taste. i am not able toss and wash, and the thought of parachuting wigged me out. and yet, so many others have no issue with taking it. i'm thinking about getting some leaves and making tea, as i've heard that it's a much more pleasant way to ingest it.
i've heard nothing but great things about it from the people i know who use it.
OK is next on the map for mmj, if i have anything to do with it, and if we can get sq 788 passed, we'll have one more option.
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This “just say no" idiocy? More like “just say no $#it, Sherlock." When will these idiots in office (including the idiot-in-chief and his henchman in the DOJ, sorry for the politics) realize that the opioid-OD crisis is NOT because “kids are taking it and just shouldn't start" but rather because of draconian restrictions placed on those for whom it is legally and justifiably prescribed? Here in IL, it is impossible to get more than one month's worth per prescription; no refills; no calling in an Rx, but having to visit one's physician (for which you must pay then & there or be billed) and bring a paper prescription into the pharmacy…and then having to make a pest of yourself and letting the line pile up behind you by insisting the pills be counted out one by one in front of you before you pay for them and leave (shortchanging has happened to a friend of mine with chronic cluster headaches several times now, the last time caught on camera)…lather, rinse, repeat every 30 days. Eventually, when the pain-in-the-@$ becomes worse than the actual pain, patients turn to easier and illicit sources; when those run out or get too expensive, it's on to heroin and now fentanyl. I won't even get into the problem of those who are addicted long after they no longer have pain—only that the early motivation for wanting to “escape" that led to addiction needs to be explored psychiatrically and treated medically, not punished.
I don't have chronic pain any more and I don't need opioids, thank heavens. But I had my R knee replaced in 2012 and my L one in 2013. Both times, I needed long-acting hydromorphone (Opana) every day for two weeks and two 10 mg. Norco every 6 hrs for four weeks (including the time I was on Opana), plus gabapentin & tramadol for the first three weeks. (Because of stairs to my front door making twice-daily outpatient PT visits impossible, I was in in-patient rehab 10 days the first time and 2 weeks the second). And because I developed severe GERD in the year between surgeries due to transitioning to NSAIDs after weaning off the Norco, my second rehab required a longer weaning-off period because I couldn't sub out Advil or Aleve. But never did I have any problems getting Norco—each script had refills that only had to be confirmed via fax from my doctor. Even 2 years ago, when my husband had a perforated bowel after a botched colonoscopy (requiring three hospital admissions before they did a hemicolectomy, followed w/in three weeks by an emergency hernia repair), the surgeon prescribed a months' worth of Norco, with a refill, without hesitation. I shudder to think of how much harder my recovery from knee replacement surgery (or my husband's recovery from gut surgery) would be today with the crackdown on lawfully and legitimately prescribed opioids. And I am hoping I never have to get my hips replaced if I have to substitute mindfulness meditation because of mindless restrictions on medication!
And I'm sorry, but this business of “marijuana is a dangerous drug," possibly to the point of Federally arresting patients with valid state permits for possession of medical marijuana in their own states, is purely a combination of moral sanctimoniousness and the profit motive of packing private prisons as if they were sardine-tins. You have my complete sympathy—and I share your indignation. (And no, I don't do weed either, not even medical which is legal here in IL).
When will those in power grow some compassion? And when will patients who need real pain management stop getting lumped in with the addicts?
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ChiSandy...very well written. Could not agree with you more!
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I have never heard of Kratom, I will do some research, but knowing Australia it is probably illegal. You do seem to have more options available to you, including cannabis products.
I have tried so many things for pain relief, most just make me extremely nauseous, oxycodone (endone) causes the least amount of nausea. Dependency and addiction are two different things, so I am not concerned about taking it when needed.
Last year they changed something in oxycodone here so that it can't be injected. If you crush it and try to make it a liquid, it just becomes a gummy sticky mass, is it the same in the US?
I have no problems getting bulk oxycodone, my Dr or MO just need to get an "authority script", being stage IV makes that an easy process. This was the last script I picked up, less than $13 for the lot (56 Oxycontin, 300 Endone).
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Dodes, to be honest, I never tried the powder. Due to issues with my hands (because of the cervical spine issue my hands functions are all messed up, get numb, drop things, etc) I've always bought capsules. You can also buy empty gelcaps and fill them. I just don't trust my hands to do that so I pay a buck or two more and get them already done. One thing I have noticed, to date is that this things is as varied as they come, not just as strains but as origin (I think). A "red vein indo" from different providers will have different effects. Probably depending of the geographical area they are harvested, as in, the trees in this valley have more mytraginine and less of the other 25 alkaloid compounds than the trees of the valley across the river. Not sure if that makes sense.
I've gone through a few providers myself, and found one that sells capsules, still trying to go through all the strains they have so I can figure out which of them works the best. I still have to try 3 of them but of the ones I've tried one definitely did wonders, a red vein indo (that supposedly is the best for pain but again, depends from person to person). PM me and I'll give you a link to their website, I wont' give it publicly because I don't want to be accused of advertising or something.
ChiSandy, I know, right? Here is the same thing with the once a month dr visit. I see the deaths from opiate overdose actually skyrocketing in the future in the states that have no medical marijuana legalized. It's all about the prisons and the money.
What boggles my mind is the "stuck in my own ways" of these rich people. Like, great Poobahs who have financial interests and monopoly on oil and do whatever they can to stop alternative energy. When if they would put 10% of their resources into ACQUIRING alternative energy technology in a decade or less they'd have monopoly on that and the same money if not more. Same with the prison owners - the trend will, eventually legalize cannabis all over. Instead of investing NOW in some legalizing the stuff and starting their own companies producing and selling it and soon be more stinking rich than they are now, they are stuck in their quicksand and pull everybody in with them.
I just don't' find it right that I have to be in pain because other people are stupid. Seriously.
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Hi seachain!
I’m a little late to post a reply on this thread. Thank you so much for this post. I couldn’t agree more about the government interference with opioid procurement and the reluctance to make marijuana legal.
My husband just picked up Kratom and I was concerned about taking it. I had a BX with tissue expanders on May 9. I’m on my last three Norco, and the incision pain and the pain from the fills is still very real. NDAIDS do nothing nor does the Arnica that a friend got for me.
Are there any side effects to taking kratom? I’m on Tamoxifen now and wondered if you or anyone knows of any issues taking both.
Of course much of the research I’ve been doing includes the dangerous side of a natural drug like kratom. Big Pharma could be behind much of this. There’s also plenty of good information about the benefits of taking it.
Thanks in advance!
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Big Pharma IS behind all of the negative reviews
The thing with Kratom is that you can never overdose. If you take too much you simply throw up.
The few liver damage cases reported were in fact proven to be of people who took cocktails of various drugs that would cause the "highs"
Right now I use Red Borneo, but for some people the Red Maeng Da works better for pain, and for some the Red Bali strain.
I also use the White Maeng Da for fatigue - it's like a caffeine without causing high blood pressure and palpitations. Just enhances focus.
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Hey seachain, thanks so much for your response.
I was a little skeptical because my husband got some capsules from a random person he met while at work. The Kratom does not show what kind of strain it is. I’ll have to do a little more digging looking at ingredients and what not. It’s worth a try!
At this point my BX surgery was May 9 and I have expanders in and I just cannot get used to them. Some days the pain is worse than others and I don’t want to be on opioids. I’m alsogoing to try CBD oil this weekend.
Overall, I think the natural route is the best route. I thank you again for this thread.
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Hang in there. The pain will slowly go away. I had direct implants so it was very painful for quite a while. I hope Kratom can help you. It sure helps me. I wish I could financially afford it, I'd get off the opiates in a heart beat!
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I joined just to say..... CONGRATULATIONS ON MARIJUANA BEING LEGALIZED IN OKLAHOMA.
Only 3 years age, we expected it to be many years down the road. 2 years ago yesterday medical marijuana passed!0
