Diet and Lifestyle
Comments
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Warrior, I admire your ability to stick to a Keto diet and it is good for short term weight loss. I just don't think I could entirely give up bread! I did find an organic sprouted loaf with half the calories, because the pieces are smaller and thinner. Two for one. Kind of dolly bread but I like small things.
Heidi, my doctor said I would have more wiggle room with BMI when I turned 70 (coming soon to a birthday near me). However, that was before BC and I know that body fat makes estrogen so I have dropped some weight for insurance. It is harder to do with age.
Most of you gals are too young to worry about this, but research shows that once you are over 70, extra weight is protective (maybe not for ER+ BC though. This study didn't factor that in). This study says:
“Mortality risk was lowest for overweight participants. The risk of death for overweight participants was 13% less than for normal-weight participants (hazard ratio (HR)=0.87, 95% CI=0.78-0.94). The risk of death was similar for obese and normal-weight participants (HR=0.98, 95% CI=0.85-1.11). Being sedentary doubled the mortality risk for women across all levels of BMI (HR=2.08, 95% CI=1.79-2.41) but resulted in only a 28% greater risk for men (HR=1.28 (95% CI=1.14-1.44).“
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20370857
Surprising results but being frail when you are elderly has risks.
There may be different recommended BMIs for different ages, but it seems that movement is medicine for everyone 🏃🏻🚴🏻 🏊!
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Enjoying all your posts , great links , recipes , and pics of yummy fresh produce 🤗
Dearlife...gosh ..I'm surprised to read that mortality is lower for those carrying a bit of weight too ...but ( when I think about it ) after working in aged care for years , lots of the elderly , active residents , actually we're well padded !!!
Just going to share another " fun " exercise I enjoy ...shutting all the doors , pulling all the curtains shut ( so no one can see me 😲🙄🤣) ,, putting on some good music and just dancing 💃💃💃around to it !!!! Lots of fun .. especially on a wet day when I can't get outside to walk !!
Hugs to all ..
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Lucy dancing is a great exercise and impossible not to feel happy while boogying. I still love to sing along to old hits, even though I never made the choir. When we were young, my sister and I used to leave the drapes open and dance so we could see our reflection. Wonder what the neighbors thought!
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Hi all! I’ve been doing a lot of research today. My head is kind of spinning right now but I wanted to share a couple of articles I read through and found interesting. They discuss the roles and functions of glutamine and glucose in cancer cells
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2952340/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3754270/
I understand that each of our body’s metabolisms work differently but if our cells, including cancer cells, function in the same manner then why can’t there be an easier, natural way to regulate or change the way cancer cells function (in other words kill them)?! And why can’t this change occur in such a way that it doesn’t kill our healthy cells/metabolisms?!
Sorry if I’m ranting. I’m just frustrated today. I’ve been readind and researching preparing to see the Integrative Onc this week. I will have a boat load of questions that’s for sure! I just hope I can get some answers.
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Hi all, I SO love the vibe here.
DearLife, Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate it more than I can say. I was actually told during chemo to eat whatever I wanted to and worry about it later. (25 lbs later!). Nurses told me to get out and walk, but didn't explain how beneficial it would be for me. There is much that can be improved upon.
Moth, another couple plant based resources are www.foodrevolution.org & www.foodmatters.com. Tomorrow, in fact I'm starting a 10 plant based challenge with food matters.
Heidi, congrats on healthy weight loss! You mentioned adding flax seed to granola...are you grinding it first? Flax needs to be ground to get the benefits.
Here's a great article about flax: https://foodrevolution.org/blog/eating-flaxseed-ma...
Warrior, I completely agree with you..everyone's individuals needs are different and may change over time.
Lucy, I love to dance also. I recently purchased these dance videos.
https://www.bodygroove.com/0 -
Wildplaces, I think to myself if Jane can do it at 80, I can, too. Warrior, I was swimming in estrogen relative to my body mass premenopause, so yes, that probably was a contributing factor with 100% ER+ BC.
DearLife, that is interesting about women responding more to exercise than men. It must have something to do with muscle mass, an independent risk factor as strong as adiposity in BC, i.e., body composition matters, not just bmi. To the extent that I started strength training after active treatment, this probably helped change the course of my disease.
https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2018/sarcopenia-breast-cancer-prognosis
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I love this thread so much and joined up just to say please don't let this go the way of the old thread!! Hello ladies, I am in awe of all of you. Have nothing to contribute at present but thank you for all the ideas. If ever I become wise like you guys, I shall share 😘
Take care
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I was the one with thel obesity article - I won't repost it - my main goal was to say - aim for a mid normal BMI that feels right for your body shape, try and improve your muscle mass and watch your waste to hip ratio ( there are other measurements but that will cover 80% of what your hoping for). And do not compromise adequate nutrition in the hope of having no fat hence no oestrogen - it does not work that way - there is fat in muscle and around major organs - adequate exercise and nutrition get around that one. I am mid range normal BMI with heavy legs ( life of hikes) so if I loose a lot more I will look quite skinny on top. Maybe 2 kg more and I will fit into all my past and present clothes... but they just don't shake off for long enough. Congrats to all of those who have lost weight and ate well!
I agree with Dearlife - there is work to show that as you age ( let's say 70.. ) your weight is prognostically better on the mid to high NORMAL BMI - it's not just about BC - and perhaps epidemiological work does not fully adjust for nutrition - so we are seeing a worse Generalprognosis in the frail thin elderly who have a pretty repetitive and limited diet - often live alone and don't cook for themselves.
I am also the one with the granola - no, I toast them with the rest of granola mix - and Thank you 😊
My take on nutrition - eat the best and freshest you can for optimal nutrients. The more I read the more I am appalled at the food industry. Your supermarket apple spends an average of ten months in a cooler before it reaches the store.
https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/supermarket-a...
So find a market, a farmer, travel if you have to, try and grow a few greens and avoid supermarkets as much as possible - if anything it's a little social - I like taking to my greengrocer or the men who sells me most of my veg at a local school fare on Saturday mornings - and sniff them out - not everything that says organic is ...quite you might think. Vegetables are not meant to look perfect - they are meant to have some spots and different shapes and colours, and they are not meant to be gigantic - how big do we think bananas will get in the next ten years??
The world-wide deaths and chronic diseases due to pesticide poisoning number about 1 million per year (Environews Forum, 1999).
Sobering
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC29840...
😊🌷🐣
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Amelia - thank you for reposting the zucchini and banana bread recipe - it's good to see you here - please stay with us!!
Warrior - I will try and dig out a Paris Conf at which a number of people hashed out possible theories on what causes Ca and controls it and your Boston Prof was a speaker.
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Wildplaces, agree on fresh, real food. One reason I like living in Greece is that I have a huge farmer's market outside my door every Friday.
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Wondering how you figure your BMI? Recently lost weight and want to see if it improved. Thanks!
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cowgirl - BMI calculator link:
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm?source=quickfitnesssolutions
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Warrior, I read the articles but I dropped out of biology (yuck dead frogs) and couldn't really grasp it. It does drive me crazy that scientists can't adequately explain what causes cancer. I just finished watching the Ken Burns documentary Cancer The Emperor of All Maladies and it helped me understand the genomics, but there are other research directions that I would like to understand, including metabolic theory. I have a feeling you will be ahead of things with your integrative onc!
WildTulip, thanks for finding us more plant links. All good ideas and keeps up our love for veggies and fruit.
Heidi, you are an inspiration to us all and so knowledgeable. I think the elliptical is keeping my muscle mass up, but I will try to go back to using weights again. Could you please post the link to 80 year old Jane? I am intrigued. Imagining Jane and Tarzan? or maybe Jane Fonda??
Wildplaces, like healthy vegetables, we can be proud of our spots, different shapes and sizes!
SpecialK, amazing that you have 14,600 posts. Imagine how many people you have helped.
Prelude Sing welcome! I love how international we are. My sister is on her way to Singapore to visit her new granddaughter.
So we are from US, Canada, Greece, Australia, Singapore, anywhere else? 🌎
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Good morning! Interesting articles. I've been researching lifestyle on reoccurance/survival. I had a hysterectomy in 2003 & thought the estrogen was gone. Didn't realize my middle aged spread produced estrogen. Now that I'm past chemo/rads. I'm trying to focus on a healthy lifestyle & trying a more plant-based diet. Hope y'all don't mind me joining in.
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Just a thought, but is BMI really a number to go by when it doesn't take into account muscle mass?
For example I could be a solid 170 or a soft 170 and have the same BMI.
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For the vast, vast majority of people, BMI is an effective measure. The only people who it doesn't work for is super elite competitive athletes. If you are an elite athlete, get caliper measurements (or an underwater weight) to get an accurate body composition measure. For the rest of us, bmi is a good tool. Combine it with hip/waist ratio for an even better gauge.
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vampeyes - exactly. I just read a study abstract that indicated that a significant number of people, especially women, get a false negative from BMI, they fall into the normal range, but are in fact overweight or obese based on other clinical criteria. The recommendation from the study indicated that imaging and labs accompany BMI to get a more clear picture. Conversely, individuals with higher muscle mass can tip BMI into the overweight range, when in fact, they are not at all. Part of the reason for its continued use is that it is easy, particularly for physicians, to use for a generalized quick result.
dearlife - I have been here for a while and the posts add up, lol! I hope I have made some worthwhile posts that have helped others, that is my silver lining. I am a California girl, but had a British-born/Canadian raised mom, and an Australian dad, who were both naturalized US citizens.
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Ouray, welcome! And just because mindfulness is part of a healthy lifestyle, here's my view this morning to share with you all:
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hi Ladies,
I met with a dietician last week and she suggested that Bmi is not really the greatest measurement anymore, precisely because of what was said above..you can be a very solid person and have a high BMI. Body fat and skeletal muscle are the ones to look at. I actually had myself assessed for those things.
I was sorry to check in and see Hap gone. And I agree that a thread that helps many shouldn’t disappear. I’m glad you’re all building it up again,
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Thank you Wildplaces. I’ll keep my eye of for it.
DearLife- my head was kinda spinning too. I just keep pushing forward through it!! I bet I get a good conversation with my Integrative Doc
ABSOLUTELY beautiful view!!! 🤩Hi Ouray! Happy to meet you!
SpecialK nice to see you here!
Not too much to add except that I agree with what has been said about BMI.
Has anyone ever looked through this site? https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/beetroots-dont-cure-cancer/
It definitely is the other side of the coin when it comes to my way of interpreting and dealing with BC. I had started out researching what foods contain glutamine, which beets contain a high amount, and I saw this site and thought I’d take a look. I went on to view multiple articles that were linked in the original one. One article goes on to mention Dr. Seyfried and attempts to debunk his theories. Not saying I agree or disagree with any of it but I like to hear both sides of the argument or at least try to understand how a hypothesis can be found improbable or become theory.
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Warrior, I like that blog, particularly Gorski's contribution. It is written by doctors and scientists, and they debunk a lot of the claptrap that is out there. Exercising and eating a good diet may well contribute to survival, but it will not "cure" cancer.
What he says about the immune system in that article is also correct. Besides, once you have an established cancer, it means that the cancer cells in your body have learned to hide from your immune system. So, boost it all you want, it won't do jack to the cancer.
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FYI - There is a 10-day plant based food challenge (online) starting today. You can access it via this link Daily Health and Wellness Inspiration | FOOD MATTERS® and then clicking on Save My Spot and you will get the live link via e-mail. Part of today's program is a film called Plant Pure Nation (about 90 min long). I've seen it before but am watching it again. It is based on T. Colin Campbell's life's work as a doctor and researcher in nutrition. He is author of The China Study, the most comprehensive study on nutrition. The Plant Pure Nation video shows how residents in a town in Kentucky, changed their diet and became so much healthier. Worth watching if you have the time.
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Momine, happy to see you’ve read it too. Thank you for your input
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Kayak, I'm doing the Food Matters plant based challenge, although not following the menu exactly. I'm using some of their recipes combined with my own and striving to eat as much plant based as I can for the next ten days.
Heidi/Wildplaces, Sorry for the mix up on who said what. Lots of great interaction here to keep track of!
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To my simple way of thinking after 2 years of reading, I find that both integrative or alternative and mainstream scientist are hard pressed to
1. describe exactly why cancer forms - yes there are a multitude of associations and some potential causal pathways 2. describe exactly how it metastasises ? Why? And particularly why at one point in time? One stem cells, independent groups etc. 3. decide precisely how to treat it - the whole concept of personal medicine is not new - Hippocrates " first do no harm" is the very basis of it - what was new werethe late 20th century unpersonalised medicine trends.
It appears that we are dealing with more than thirty diseases alone for BC - that we can't really separate effectively outside hormone status in the majority of the population - and that early on there may be some genetic clues (again past HR/HER status) that some early BCs are more aggressive than others. It also appears that response to therapy in early disease is different from late disease and that resistance mechanisms are more likely to be evolved in late disease - how and why? - watch this space.
Given that, it would be naive, to believe that any one drug or diet or lifestyle or exercise manipulation will alone be sufficient to cover the complexity of this monster in everyone. But put together sustained over time, honed by the instinct of each individual and supported by their medical team - I think you have to be hopeful that in some it will make a difference - at least to some. And sleep, fresh air, movement and a balanced diet have a low side effect profile 😉
Simply put I think if you sleep well, have adequate social and family supports, go outside and exercise moderately regularly, eat a balanced diet of high quality fresh products in adequate portions - and are open to experimenting with spices, herbs, flavours - you set yourself up for dealing better with chronic illness and for having the confidence to push your care team to think what are the best solutions for you. This is very hard to do over a long time aka for Life - it takes discipline and a willingness to hold on those BiG Rocks of Moth and know that the sand will just slide around them. Love that photo!!!!!!
So it may not the beetroot but the beetroot salad with horseraddish lemon dressing and quinoa on an afternoon after a long walk with a good friend that might make a difference.
Warrior - these are the talk - " Paris Rethinking cancer 2017 "
Valter Longo is there so is Guido Kroemer ( huge on autophagy) and Laurent Schwartz. Very interesting - at least to me.
Autophagy scored Nobel prize for Med 2016.
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Wildtulip - it was you that suggested I ground flaxseeds - thank you!!! Gosh I hope I am right 😉
I like this thread - I like women, food, movement - it speaks of life.
Amelia - if you are reading q thinking of you. I amexperimenting with different flours and in this morning GC bulletin I snapped a gluten free recipe for banana bread - millet flour, oatmeal and coconut sugar - that will take me outside my comfort zone but will report back! (())
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SpecialK, thank you for the BMI calculator!
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Thank you Dear Life for the warm welcome! Hoping your sister has a wonderful trip to Singapore to visit her granddaughter.
Thank you everyone for the fabulous info on this thread. Simply marvellous.
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Awaiting your test results Wildplaces! I usually use Kamut flour --- I'm not sure about the GI level but I'm not GF and not sure I need to be. I have great pizza dough results with 3/4 Kamut and 1/4 whole wheat that rises like nobody's business. The oat flout intrigues me.... but are we supposed to stay away from phytic acids? OIIII so complex !
I'm happy to repot that I finished all my chemo yesterday. Six months and 9 days ------ It sapped me for the sapable. But I fought back and maintained as normal of a life as I could. Now .... on to rads and more living.....
xx
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Wildplaces: "So it may not the beetroot but the beetroot salad with horseradish lemon dressing and quinoa on an afternoon after a long walk with a good friend that might make a difference."
Yep, the key, I think, is to live as well as you possibly can. Tasty, healthy food, good friends, getting outside, getting exercise etc. It may not kill cancer, but at least we will be happy and healthy, and as you say, there is really no downside. I also think of it as a way to extend my life, even if I don't extend the actual time I spend being alive. Time enjoyed is what counts, so if I maximize that, I will have lived "longer" than if I didn't enjoy my time.
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