Cannabis Basics
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Don't know if you noticed this new topic about cannabis study--https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topics...
Difficult reading, but this screams for more research and understanding about CBD & THC.
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I got a bottle of CBD as a gift. It is unopened and I am a bit nervous to try it since my MO said there are no data that that is safe and effective, etc. especially since I am taking letrozole that has messed up my system. Any thoughts on that? Does anyone who takes letrozole and Zometa have any experience, good or bad?
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LillyIsHere, I have a medical card and have THC, but I don’t usually take it because it gives me a weird head feeling. I also have a CBD tincture that doesn’t make me feel any different. I took some today because I have been pretty nauseous the last few days on Xeloda. I felt it helped. I also took it while I was on Ibrance and Letrozole. I don’t take it every day, and before today, it had been weeks. I’m also on Zometa.
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Hi Lily,
Sadly, your mo is somewhat correct. Because CBD derived from cannabis is not federally legal, there is little research money available for further investigation into the medical potential (and not just for CBD, but for all parts of the plant). CBD derived from hemp, a close relative of cannabis, is readily available in many states and is sold everywhere it seems! CBD by itself is not psychoactive regardless of which plant it comes from. I have not used pure CBD as I find better effects if I have some THC with it. I have read that there isn't a real difference between CBD derived from hemp and CBD derived from cannabis.
CBD derived from cannabis is more expensive in my state and must be purchased in a dispensary. There are quite a few established and reputable companies that make various CBD products and I am confident of their quality. It costs a company too much money to legally operate in CA so they don't do anything to jeopardize their licenses.
My mo knows I use cannabis and I have been on all of the AIs without problems. Any research regarding cannabis and AIs is probably a long way off.
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Thank you Ladies. Have you read if CBD has some anti-cancer properties? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7693730/
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Thank you, Lily! I have spent very little time researching cannabis and it’s components as a cure or treatment for breast cancer because my interest is in symptom relief. I hope we see more research like this in the future. For those using hemp derived CBD, please note this study used cannabis Sativa which would only be available in legal states.
I have been using cannabis for pain relief and as an appetite stimulant for at least six years. I had a medical card prior to recreational legalization.
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exbrnxgrl, I hope you don't mind me asking if your symptoms are bone pain. Also, being stage IV for almost 10 years I wonder if cannabis has helped even a bit.
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Lily,
My pain is mostly joint pain though I do have limited bone pain. I use cannabis at night because I like formulations with at least a 1:1 CBD:THC ratio or even those with a higher THC level. I have a very high THC tolerance but it still makes me high so I can't use it during the day. Aleve still works on my day time pain.
As to whether cannabis has helped with my actual bc, we will never know and I am not willing to jump into the anecdotal story pool. My use is not entirely consistent, I've used a wide variety of products, formulations , etc. There is simply no way to make a correlation between my cannabis use and my unusual good luck of being stage IV for ten years. That's why we need real research, not anecdotes!
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exbrnxgrl, you are so helpful, keep telling your story
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Thank you nopink! I know that I may eventually have to move on to stronger pain relief but for right now, cannabis is wonderful. I am fortunate to live in a legal state with an active pro-cannabis community. The one thing that anyone considering cannabis use should remember is that it is expensive and not covered by insurance. I typically spend about $300. a month. Some of you may have heard of Marinol, which can be prescribed by doctors. Marinol is synthetic THC, not cannabis. I have never used it but I know a few who have and they unanimously agree that it is not as effective as an actual cannabis product.
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so glad I found this thread
Exbrnxgirl you are so helpful !!!
lots of great info and nice to read about real experiences
Doctor says taking the cbd oil won’t have any effect on my cancer drugs and I am welcome to add in if I please once I have all my new treatments started for abit
The only thing thing it appears it may have a problem with my blood thinners just wondering if anyone else is on blood thinners and how everything went
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Day 2 on CBD, starting slow and I don't see any difference. Sleep is better but I believe the reason is that I moved letrozole in the morning and not before bedtime. BWT, Cannabis sativa is legal in my state. Beth, let me know if you find out about blood thinners and cbd oil.
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Exbrnxgrl - thank you for all the information. I don't know if the cannabis is helping my cancer, but it does help me sleep, which is what I need. It is legal in my state, but I am considering asking my doc for a medical marijuana card, to see if I might save money that way.
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tinkerbell,
In CA, a medical card allows you to purchase more daily and saves quite a bit on sales taxes. The problem for me is that when recreational was instituted the regulations for medical patients changed. There were now specific doctors who could issue medical recommendations and they charged far more than years earlier. You also needed to pay a substantial county fee to obtain the card. I should add that it varies by county so this is the current situation in my county. Anyway right before recreational became legal a bud tender at my dispensary looked up what I spent in the previous year and figured it was still cheaper for me to go rec. I know my posts make me sound like a huge stoner but I actually use small quantities. Take care.
PS: 2:1? You would likely feel high if you took it during the day but it’s great for sleep
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Question: Any suggestions on what kind of cannabis product to choose and how to use it as an anti-nausea med with chemo? I suspect my onc will recommend a taxane for the newly diagnosed ILC colon met. I was thinking about anti nausea meds, and how I have to avoid any with gastrointestinal side effects. It may be time for me to try cannabis. I am pretty sensitive to drugs in general. I do not want to smoke, and currently cannot eat anything with fiber. Please forgive me for not reading through the thread for an answer. I do not feel well because of a partial colon blockage from the tumor.
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shetland,
It is the THC in cannabis that relieves nausea and stimulates the appetite. THC is also the psychoactive cannabinoid,i.e. it makes you feel high. I would recommend that you look for an edible with ratio of 18:1 (CBD: THC). That’s a low dose of THC, but I don’t know your experience with cannabis so your mantra should be low and slow. If you are not getting the effect you want, you can take more of the 18:1 or buy a product with more THC. You really can’t OD on THC. If you take too much you can counteract it with pure CBD or just go to bed. You can find gummies, chocolate bars,tinctures, syrups, capsules, etc. If your dispensary has experienced bud tenders they can often be helpful in recommending products/doasage. I currently use 2:1 or 1:1 products and I don’t mind feeling a bit high but I generally only use in the evening at home. Let me know if you have any other questions . Take care.
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Thank you, that is helpful information. How long for edibles to take effect? Total newbie here. For those with a choice, pros and cons of medical card vs. just a regular shopper? Will the chemo nurses be ok with it or do I say nothing?
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Shetland,
I do hope your let your mo know if you choose to use cannabis as I think that's very important that they know. My mo had no objections and the social worker at my medical center actually walked me through the process of getting a medical card many years ago. I'm not sure about the chemo nurses but if you're in a legal state and your mo knows, it is not really any of their business. Most edibles/tinctures have a long onset, generally 60-90 minutes after ingestion. Some formulations are labeled rapid onset but in my personal experience it will still take about 45-60 minutes. Sub-linguals also have a quicker onset.
Medical card vs adult use can vary not only by state but sometimes city by city, at least in CA. In CA, a medical card saves you money in taxes and allows you to purchase larger quantities each day. It may also give you access to higher dose formulations. My city and most big cities in CA allow both medical and adult use but my dd lives in Napa and they only allow medical use. Whether it's worth getting medical card or not depends on local regulations and how much a medical card will run you. Medical cards have become much more expensive in my county and I don't consume enough to justify the expense so I let my medical card lapse when adult use started. Take care
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Thanks for the additional info! I will absolutely tell my onc if I decide to try it. Some brief reading on MSKCC and NCI web sites indicates that cannabis may offer as good or better nausea control with fewer side effects for me, so it will have to be included, at least by me, when we discuss options.
https://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/integrative-medicine/herbs/cannabis
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/patient/cannabis-pdq
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Ok, I found the blurb that prompted my question about the nurses. I go to an NCCN cancer center, and they are required to comply with federal law. Therefore, they cannot permit "the possession of marijuana in any form" on their campus. So, it appears one would have to take it before entering.
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Yes, given the long onset time, you should definitely take a dose right before you leave for chemo. The issue of federal legality is one of the things holding up more research as is banking which can be a problem I mostly use delivery and pay online through a third party app. There is a prescription drug called Marinol which is synthetic THC but I understand that about 40% of patients who use it find it ineffective. I have not tried it myself.
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exbrnxgrl, thanks for sharing your knowledge on this subject. Just here to share my experience so far.
My doctor pretty much has encouraged the use of cbd oil and said when thc becomes legal to experiment all I want but warned me that it could make me "loopy". No kidding.
CBS oil helps me a little w pain. Helps more w depression I think.
I've been able to try thc at different levels/combos w cbd a bit when out of state. Has helped little with pain but I've enjoyed some very pleasant highs. It could get pricey for me if I need a bunch for pain relief. I'm still willing to try different amounts in combination when legal here.
BUT, I've read somewhere that most pain relievers will only help about 20% of the pain,, thus taking both an nsaid, Tylenol and a muscle relaxant etc at same time isnt unheard of for severe pain. Like when I ruptured a disc this spring. A single ibuprofen works for it now and the arthritis pain and jaw pain. I sure hate taking pain killers all day. Oh well. I pretend alot and that alone helps.
What I have finally found to help me sleep is 1/3rd gummy Or 8 mg of Delta 8 thc with 1 soft gel Doterra Copaiba. It has alot of another cannibinoid in it. Solid 7 hours!
All the best to you ladies.
Gailmary
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What about cannabis for pain? My abdominal pain is bad. I can't eat solid food and I won't smoke or vape. I can send a friend to get something. Right now taking tramadol which is making it bearable but I will run out soon. Somebody tell me the bottom line please.
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ShetlandPony, I’m so sorry about your pain. Exbrnxgirl is very knowledgeable, so hopefully she’ll pop in to let you know.
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Shetland, can you get a tincture (liquid put under the tongue)? I have tried the Papa and Barkley brand for pain relief, called Releaf Tincture, and it does help. I have experienced minimal pain, but have heard from other women in my on-line support group who use more of the tincture than I do, and it gives them a lot of relief.
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Hello Shetland,
SF-cakes made a good suggestion. Tinctures might be the way to go for you. They often come with a calibrated eye dropper so you can measure the amount you’re taking. Place drops under your tongue for about 30 seconds or so and swallow (it’s a small amount). Sub lingual application also helps with quick absorption. Papa and Barkley is a good brand, though there are other good quality brands available as well. They make a variety of products for pain relief. Some are pure CBD and some have various amounts of THC as well. Since THC is psychoactive if you are not comfortable with feeling high, look for a product that contains CBD only. However… I find that some THC really elevates the pain relieving properties of cannabis. You can experiment with products that have a high CBD to THC ratio, such as a 24:1 product. If your dispensary has knowledgeable bud tenders ask them for their recommendations based on your needs. You may have to do a bit of self experimentation 😊 If you can swallow capsules, pain relief formulas are available in that form as well. Take care and ask away!
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Hi,
Very interesting and informative topic. I've smoked cannabis in the past and never had a problem with it. Once I started tamoxifen and then smoked some, wow...it messes with my head. Lightheaded and weird feeling until it wore off. Actually made me anxious. I tried it again on 2 seperate occasions and it was the same. Perhaps I'll got the CBD route fully, or a high ratio of CBD to THC. Maybe once I'm switched to an AI i can try again.
Love the info!!
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beach2beach,
I assume that when you smoked in the past it was not legal. If you more recently tried legal cannabis, you may be in for a shock! Legal cannabis is quite often higher in THC, often double the amount of THC, from the weed you get from guy your cousin knows. The legal market seems to be going in the direction of high THC products achieved by all kinds of agricultural expertise. The science of cannabis cultivation will soon rival that of viticulture. So, if you’re smoking legal weed, check the THC content and go for lower THC % mixed with CBD as the higher percentage of product. That should virtually eliminate any unpleasantness from too much THC. It is easy to find legal products that are 30% or higher THC so read those labels! Tolerance increases with usage but that takes some time. Most historical information puts the THC content of what we may have smoked illegally in the past as under 20%!
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I have recently tried THC/CBD gummies to help with joint pain and sleep issues while taking anastrozole. I haven’t told my doctor yet, probably will at my next appointment. I got a medical weed card, and have started with a small dose, 2.50 mg of each. It really helps, hope it doesn’t interfere with AI’s.
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Hi Mimie,
You are smart to start with a low dose THC. My mo knows I use cannabis and I have been on all of the AI’s but definitely tell your mo. When I was first dx’ed ten years ago, it was the social worker at my medical facility who offered to walk me through the process of getting a medical card.
PS: My grandchildren call me Mimi
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