Covid-19?
Increasingly, it's feeling like the elephant in the middle of the room. So, I thought I would open a thread where we can air our concerns, frustrations, fears, and nervous humor about the SARS-CoV2 virus and give each other support. Do you work, and can you work from home? Kids in school? Are you practicing "social distancing" and to what degree? Are your family members and caregivers doing the same? What are the practical considerations and concerns you deal with on a daily basis? Is there an outbreak near you?
I'm hoping we can come here to support each other, commiserate, and get through it together. It would certainly help me.
Blessings and waves - from 6 feet away - to all of you.
Yuuki
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It is distressing. DH's daughter and kids came to visit last week via Seattle route. So far, 7 days and we are fine. They are fine as well. Our small little town seems very prepared and more organized than the clown-in-chief, for which I am grateful. I try to wash my hands and have to remind DH to wash his (what a battle). Our generation has not experienced the likes of this and this will definitely be a trying time.
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I am being proactive and taking supplements that are good for coughs and the lungs. I read somewhere that Zinc keeps the virus from replicating in the lungs.
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I can’t seem to turn off the wall-to-wall coverage either, as if I’m afraid of missing some tiny piece of evidence that will be the key to solving all of this. I need to let it go, and at the same time it’s hard to get answers to my questions about risk, about being able to fill my prescriptions, etc. I’m not sure anyone has the answers.
Wallycat, I am glad all seems well in your corner of Washington. Marijen, thank you for the tip on the zinc. I had not heard that.
Stay strong,
Yuuki
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Yuuki where do you live?
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Can These Vitamins Stop the Coronavirus?
(Bert Folsom/Dreamstime.com)
By Lynn Allison | Monday, 10 February 2020 10:29 AM
Experts say that people are dying needlessly from the coronavirus because doctors, health authorities, hospital administrators, and politicians aren't paying attention to history. According to experts at the Orthomolecular Medicine News Service (OMNS), some tried-and-true nutrients have the potential to fight the deadly disease that has already claimed the lives of approximately 500 people worldwide.
"The coronavirus can be dramatically slowed or stopped completely with the immediate widespread doses of vitamin C," says Dr. Andrew Saul, an international expert on vitamin therapy. "Bowel tolerance levels of C taken in divided disease throughout the day is a clinically proven antiviral, without equal."
Saul adds, "Dr. Robert F. Cathcart, who had extensive experience treating viral disease, has stated, 'I have not seen any flu yet that was not cured or markedly ameliorated by massive doses of vitamin C.'"
The physicians of OMNS and the International Society for Orthomolecular Medicine urge a nutrient-based method to prevent or minimize symptoms for future viral infection. Here are their recommendations for adults:
- Vitamin C: 3,000 milligrams in divided doses
- Vitamin D3: 2,000 International Units daily
- Magnesium: 400 milligrams daily
- Zinc: 20 milligrams daily
- Selenium: 100 micrograms daily
"These supplements have been shown to strengthen the immune system against viruses," says Saul.
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What's frustrating is hearing people who think this is no big deal talk about what they don't understand. Yes, younger folks are likely to come through it just fine. But the mortality rate is much much higher than the flu (I'm sick of people saying the flu is worse), especially for the elderly.
I personally wish I worked in a job where I could work from home, but I see elderly patients in an essential healthcare setting. There's no way to telecommute and it's not like we can shut down our clinic, we will keep treating patients. So life goes on.
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You are right about that:
Coronavirus is 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu, Trump's task force immunologist says
March 11, 2020
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told lawmakers during a House Oversight Committee hearing Wednesday that COVID-19 — the disease caused by the novel coronavirus — is probably about 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu.
President Trump has often compared COVID-19 to the flu, which affects tens of thousands of Americans each year, in an effort to calm people down, but Fauci clearly wasn't trying to downplay the seriousness of the virus' spread. Fauci is a member of the White House's coronavirus task force.
At the same time, he did clarify that 10 times figure actually brings the new coronavirus' fatality rate lower than official estimates, which hover around 3 percent. The flu has a mortality rate of about 0.1 percent, so, when considering the likelihood that there are many asymptomatic or very mild cases that have gone undiagnosed, Fauci places the new coronavirus' lethality rate at somewhere around 1 percent. While that's a good deal lower than the current data suggests, it still would lead to significant numbers of fatalities, and makes the flu comparisons seem pretty questionable. Tim O'Donnell
Q: How does COVID-19 compare to other previous health situations — SARS, H1N1?
Dr. Fauci: "...It is 10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu. I think that's something that people can get their arms around and understand." pic.twitter.com/yjLrcFSOxR
— Erick Fernandez (@ErickFernandez0 -
It may not be all bad as long as one survives it It brings high fever. High fever from unrelated causes is known to trigger remission in cancer patients. In fact in the late 1800s dr. William Colley purposely infected cancer patients with strep to cure cancer. He is considered the first doctor to do immunotherapy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Coley
When I went through chemo I refused the flu shot, knowing this. I knew the risk, and I assumed it. A week after I finished chemo I got sick, most likely from my kids. I had the highest fever I had in my life, 105.6 F. I did not tell any of the family members about it, as I would have ended up in ER. Did not take any anti-fever medicine, I just let it run its curse. A month later after my BMX I was told I had pcr. I have no proof it was due to my fever, but I keep wondering if it played a role.
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Lots of conflicting information out there.
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Covid 19 was brought to NC by one person who had visited a nursing home in WA. It is spreading fast and UNC Duke University and NC State have all extended spring break by one week and will be limiting classes to primarily online. My husbands sister was in the hospital (not virus related) and when he went to pick her up they had not instituted any special precautions. A respiratory therapist said she wasn’t afraid of this b/c she’s “been through this twice before”. Well, she hasn’t. None of us have and it is this kind of attitude that is going to keep spreading this virus. She is a health care provider who works with people who already have breathing issues and she has this cavalier attitude. DH also showed me a comment on Twitter by someone who said this fear is being propagated by misinformation and we need to stop watching CNN & MSNBC! What an idiot.
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Covid 19 was brought to NC by one person who had visited a nursing home in WA. It is spreading fast and UNC, Duke University and NC State have all extended spring break by one week and will be limiting classes to primarily online. My husbands sister was in the hospital (not virus related) and when he went to pick her up they had not instituted any special precautions. A respiratory therapist said she wasn't afraid of this b/c she's “been through this twice before". Well, she hasn't. None of us have and it is this kind of attitude that is going to keep spreading this virus. She is a health care provider who works with people who already have breathing issues and she has this cavalier attitude. DH also showed me a comment on Twitter by someone who said this fear is being propagated by misinformation and we need to stop watching CNN & MSNBC! What an idiot.
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Ingerp, I’m not going to subscribe to WA POST. Can you give us the reason why it says the immune system can’t be boosted?
DATNY, I have heard that too about fever and cancer.
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I think there is a lot of misinformation out there. I try to watch and listen to the task force when they give their daily briefing and draw my own conclusions. Dr. Anthony Fauci said he is learning more about this virus on a daily basis and what he thought last week or even yesterday is changing. Anyone old enough remember when we learned of HIV? I hope Congress does the right thing by cancelling yet another vacation and work across the isle to help the American people. I am concerned about California/Washington state and their growing homeless population and the guaranteed spread of this virus in those states. Governor Cuomo seems to have a good plan for New York.
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Marijen, I am in California. I suspect there is a lot of “community spread” here but of course that hasn’t been confirmed. One of the local doctor/politicians who has some role in public health went on record essentially saying that the public’s right to know and take precautions has to be balanced against people’s tendency to panic and handle the information poorly. Thanks for that. Local schools and businesses are relying on these data points before deciding to close. Doesn’t sound like panic to me.
I am trying to follow solid Twitter accounts for information. One of those mentioned that vitamin C can be “hard on the kidneys,” but I don’t know if that kicks in at 3000 mg or 30,000. Coronavirus is rumored to be hard on the kidneys too, so it’s left up to us to find proper balance.
Everyone’s learning curve on this is really steep and things are changing by the hour. For the moment we are keeping to routine as much as we can while staying away from crowds, which is hard. I see far too many sick people out there. My parents are elderly, which is a worry too. Thank you all for chiming in, and please stay in touch!
Yuuki
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I think Canada is handling it as well as possible so far. Our most recent cases have been travelers from the US and given the extent of infection there, population size and proximity to the US, I'm afraid we'll see further spike. I think most provinces will now have dedicated centres for Coronvirus as not to overwhelm regular ERs and avoid more transmission.
Some idiot returning from Las Vegas, took subway and buses to work here in Toronto for THREE days. This was last week. They had to evacuate and disinfect his entire office floor and inform the public of the routes he was on for those 3 days.
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Lucky me... I have my bilateral mastectomy with tissue expander surgery scheduled tomorrow (on FRIDAY THE 13th)!! I just have to laugh... is this real life?! The hospital I will be having the surgery at tomorrow just released a statement that they have one of the only two known persons testing positive for Coronavirus Disease in Michigan at the hospital for treatment. What are the odds (we have MANY hospitals in SE Michigan)?! Man I feel like I should go buy a lottery ticket!
All kidding aside, it is very disconcerting and I feel it will get much worse over the next few months with the number of deaths associated with the virus mounting. My prayers to all those touched by this virus and I pray that we can learn much from the many mistakes (and positive steps) made during this outbreak for future potentially more deadly pandemics.
Be careful out there everyone!
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Yogatyme- I am at least happy that we have a governor who seems to be taking it seriously.
I am old enough to remember the early days of the AIDS crisis. I worked in Atlanta GA at the time and have friends who died from it. Unfortunately the people in power now are reacting similarly to the ones in power then
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There have been some thoughts (ebola, SARS--also a corona virus) that too healthy an immune system actually causes the resulting nasty symptoms/death because the immune system side-effects from fighting the virus: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC38996...
I agree that they simply don't know enough about this. The good news is that China, hardest hit initially, has curbed the infection rate.
1) UV rays/sunshine
2) humidity
3) temperature (above 86)
all kill and/or slow the virus. Maybe by spring things will slow down. At the least it would give scientists a chance to work on the vaccine.
Update: just found this and it is very preliminary: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-coro...
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Sage! Is your timing always this good?
Will be thinking of you tomorrow. I believe the real danger is from hospitals and health care workers becoming overwhelmed caring for Covid patients once it gains a toehold...so with only one, things should be fine.
I read somewhere Italy is keeping the infected patients out of the cancer hospitals to the extent possible, which seems wise, and now it looks like Canada is heading that way. No idea how that will go in the US.
Best of luck with surgery and recovery. Hope you have lots of helpers to spoil you in the coming weeks.
Yuuki
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DogMom, I agree that Gov Cooper is taking this seriously
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Oy. Sorry--I forgot about the paywall. I'll grab some of the verbiage.
"While it is true some parts of the system require vitamins and minerals (such as vitamins A, C and zinc) to function normally, higher doses have not been shown to make the system function better. In fact, scientists are still a long way from understanding the complex interplay of cells and organs that allows the immune system to perform at its optimum level."
"'Obviously good and balanced nutrition is important, but I actually do not think there is any strong scientific evidence for any specific type of food being linked to better immune function, and certainly there is no serious work on the area that I am aware of,' says Shiv Pillai, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School and director of the Harvard immunology program."
"So, what can we do to keep the immune system — and our overall health — functioning optimally? The experts I spoke with all had the same suggestions, and this list probably will not surprise you. In addition to the balanced diet mentioned by Pillai, you should: aim to be physically active for at least 150 minutes per week; take steps to quit smoking; use strategies to reduce stress (exercise is great for that); and try to get adequate sleep — about seven or eight hours per night."
"If you consume a diet filled with adequate protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals, you should not need any of the supplements being marketed around coronavirus. To get there, fill half of your plate with vegetables and fruit, and the remaining quarters are left for protein-rich foods (chicken, fish, beans, eggs, etc.) and some whole grains like oats or brown rice."
"Vegetables and fruits are especially important; choosing a colorful array — perhaps carrots, peppers, oranges, leafy greens, berries or apples — will provide vitamins A and C, which both play important roles in immune function. It is also vital to get enough vitamin D, because vitamin D deficiency is linked to an increased susceptibility to infection. Since it is found in a limited number of foods, such as fortified milk and fatty fish, supplements are often recommended (the dose you need depends on age, gender and how much you get from food)."
"Still, if taking your vitamin C or some other supposed immune enhancer simply makes you feel good, go ahead. 'Taking a supplement is an intervention a person can implement immediately," Stefanski says. "This leads to feelings of control and may even have a placebo effect of enhancing their well-being even if the supplement isn't actually enhancing the immune system.'"
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I work in a place where anywhere from 20 to over 100 come by per day. We cringe when we hear wet coughing or sneezes when peeps don't use their coat elbow, etc. Peeps touching everything they can get their hands on (little kids mostly). If I shop in a store, I wonder if I should be shopping at all and buying something that a sick person touched and put back. Same goes for Shipt. I'm sure that the employee knows better, but what's in the store cannot be cleaned every time something happens. We are allowed to wear masks now but I really wish those who are sick would wear them. If they cannot find any to buy, I would visit the doctor's office and grab a couple.
We also have to hide the hand-sanitizers big bottles (for all to use/share) because they grow legs. Those available to buy (hand-sanitizer, masks, gloves, some paper towels, some toilet paper, clorox and other wipes, rubbing alcohol, etc., all wipes but facial and lastly vick's vapor rub. Not sure what you do with that last one.
I also get my flu shot in November/December since they are most effective for about 6 months. I got the flu once in a February when I got the flu shot in August.
My husband is also exposed to sick people during work. We can't escape it but just keep our hands worn out from all the washing.
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Well it’s the healthy young people that are surviving this....however I did see that the immune system actually causes the lung damage while fighting the virus.
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Hi all,
Popping in here to share with you Breastcancer.org's Breaking Special News Report: Coronavirus: What People With Breast Cancer Need to Know
We hope you find this helpful, and stay safe and healthy!
--The Mods
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Top infectious disease doctor would not fly for pleasure during coronavirus pandemic
From CNN's Michael Nedelman
The US's top infectious disease doctor told CNN's Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta Thursday night that he wouldn't get on a plane right now due to the coronavirus outbreak unless absolutely necessary.
"I certainly wouldn't get on a plane for a pleasure trip. It would have to be something that was really urgent," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said during CNN's coronavirus town hall. "My job is the public health. If it had to do with the public health and I needed to do something for the public health, I might do that because I'm quite healthy. However, if it was just for fun — no way I would do it."
"I'm a pretty healthy guy for 79," Fauci added.
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Here is a thread that was started on 3/3 on the virus:
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/8/topics/875661?page=5#idx_124
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We were supposed to go to see Les Mis last night but decided that since all the Covid 19 cases are in the Raleigh area we would forgo. Hopefully next time....
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Here's a site from Johns Hopkins that tracks the number of cases worldwide: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I'm mainly concerned for my parents, especially my frail 82 year old father with mild COPD.
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