In Favor of Feminism: Share Your Views
I'm starting this thread for those of us who support feminism and its beliefs, so we can exchange thoughts, ideas, inspiration, frustrations, personal stories, news stories, famous people stories, memes, book & video recommendations and other matters pertaining to women's equality.
Here's a general definition of feminism: the belief in full social, economic, and political equality and opportunities for all genders. It's about respecting diverse women's experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights.
[[****Edited to add: The above description is taken from several websites and aligns with my personal view of what feminism means to me. You may have other thoughts. What does feminism mean to you? Please feel free to discuss.]]
Only in the last ten years or so have my eyes been open to the patriarchal world we live in. Since then, I'm continually aware of the many women (including from this forum and also myself) who've been conditioned (by society, religion, family tradition, etc.) to prioritize others before themselves; to take on a "less than" persona, to minimize themselves and their contributions. As women, we need to recognize our value individually and collectively, advocate for ourselves and treat ourselves with the same care and loving-kindness with which we treat others.
Please honor the spirit of the thread. It's not for opposing views. The intention is for those of us with similar views on feminism to have a space to gather, share insights and find support. I feel I will have a lot to contribute. Will you join me?
Comments
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I'm a gender critical radfem so I'm not quite on board with your definition.
Feminism is a messy place my friend
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The most decorated Olympian in track and field history is giving fellow athletes $10K each for childcare
Olympic sprinter Allyson Felix and her sponsor Athleta have created a $200,000 childcare fund for athletes competing this year.
BY ELIZABETH SEGRAN
When we marvel at female athletes beating world records at the Olympics, few of us stop to ask: Who's watching their kids right now?
Allyson Felix, the most decorated track and field Olympian in history, knows exactly what it's like to be worried about childcare while she's training and competing. So this week, she announced a partnership with her primary sponsor, Athleta, and the Women's Sports Foundation to launch a $200,000 grant aimed at covering childcare costs for professional athletes competing during 2021. Nine athletes have already been chosen, including Olympic hammer thrower Gwen Berry and Olympic saber fencer Mariel Zagunis, each of whom will receive $10,000.
Over the past two years, Felix has become one of the most vocal advocates for female athletes. After Olympian runners Alysia Montaño and Kara Goucher broke their nondisclosure agreements with Nike to share how poorly the company had treated them while they were pregnant, Felix stepped up to do the same. In 2019, she described in a New York Times op-ed how she tried to push back against Nike's policy of cutting female athletes' pay during and after pregnancy. When Felix asked Nike to guarantee that she wouldn't be punished if she didn't perform at her best in the months surrounding childbirth, the contract negotiations ground to a standstill.
"One of my first races back after giving birth to my daughter, Camryn, was the World Championships," Felix tells Fast Company. "Not only was I still breastfeeding and physically and mentally exhausted from being a first-time mom while training and competing — I was assigned a roommate at the competition. There was no way I could bring my daughter into a shared room with another athlete who is trying to get in her zone."
A few months later, Felix signed a sponsorship deal with Athleta, Gap Inc.'s activewear brand. "They get that I am a whole person beyond the track," Felix says. "They jumped right in to support my training as well as my passions and advocacy platforms. In fact, part of my contract with Athleta includes provisions for Cammy to join me whenever I am competing. "
But very few athletes have this kind of support from a sponsor. Felix wanted to establish this grant program so that other mom athletes could get childcare support as they compete at the highest levels. The Women's Sports Foundation, the organization founded by tennis legend Billie Jean King in 1974, will be responsible for allocating the $200,000. Athletes from all sports can apply for a $10,000 grant through August 31, and all recipients will be announced in October. Given that most athletes headed to the Olympics don't have big sponsorship deals, a grant like this can make a big difference.
Lora Webster, a 34-year-old Paralympic volleyball player, is among the recipients and plans to use the funds as she heads to Tokyo. Webster has three children, ages 6, 8, and 10, and says she has struggled to balance her responsibilities as a mother and an athlete. She's traveled around the world to compete, from the Athens and Beijing Olympics to the Volleyball Masters in the Netherlands to the World Cup in Egypt. At the London Olympics in 2012, she didn't tell her team that she was 20 weeks pregnant. "I didn't want them to worry that they could do anything that might harm the baby," she says.
But she says traveling to sporting events for weeks at a time with three kids at home is just as challenging as competing pregnant. Her kids miss her and she feels like she's abandoning them. Then there's the sheer cost, particularly since Webster doesn't have a major corporate sponsor. She and her husband have had to pay thousands of dollars for babysitters while she's traveling. This year, she has one less thing to worry about. "It's not an exaggeration to say that this grant is life-changing," Webster says. "It's not just the money: It's that big companies are now beginning to understand what the struggle really is for mom athletes."
Webster says that she's spent most of her life carefully separating her identity as a mother from her identity as an athlete. She rarely talks about her children when she's training or interacting with her teammates because she's concerned it might make her look weak. "As moms, there's so much guilt leaving our babies at home to pursue our sport," Webster says. "It's something we can't really talk about, because it makes us look like we're not focused on the game."
Felix wants to break that code of silence. As she heads to Tokyo as one of the top track and field athletes in the world—with six Olympic gold medals and 11 world championship titles—she's using her clout not only to advocate for herself, but to start a conversation about what it's like for professional athletes who choose to become mothers. "These grants are about showing the industry that all mom athletes need this same comprehensive support to be able to participate in their athletic endeavors," Felix says.
And for Webster, this means a lot. "I'm floored that she has made this a priority," Webster says. "It sends the message to all female athletes that we don't have to choose between motherhood and our sport. We can do both."
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Elizabeth Segran, Ph.D., is a senior staff writer at Fast Company. She lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts
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Mom-of-three creates breastfeeding Barbie doll to erase stigma
The Australian custom doll maker creates breastfeeding Barbie dolls in a bid to show that nursing is just a typical part of life.
By Jisha Joseph July 1, 2021
Stay-at-home mom and custom doll maker Betty Strachan firmly believes that the key to erasing the stigma around breastfeeding is education. "It's a completely natural and normal thing to do. There's no other way to put it," the 28-year-old told PEOPLE of her efforts to help the Normalize Breastfeeding movement. "Women were given the amazing gift of being able to carry and nourish children and being shamed for doing so is just wrong." In a bid to show that nursing is just a typical part of life, the Brisbane, Australia, native came up with the idea to create a breastfeeding doll for kids.
Strachan, who is a mother-of-three, revealed that the idea came to her when she started modeling dolls after fellow moms from her parenting support group. "The decision to make a breastfeeding doll didn't come consciously," she told The Huffington Post. "I'm a member of a mothers' group that's comprised of very lovely and supportive women. I remember one day, I was drawing the new face on a Barbie doll, and she just seemed to be the embodiment of the entire group. So I mimicked the positioning of a latched baby with an old figurine I had and called her the 'Mamas Worldwide Barbie.'"
Link to full article: https://scoop.upworthy.com/mom-of-three-creates-br...
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moth, I intentionally used the phrase "general definition" because I know it can mean different things to different people. The definition given is taken from a website. I also included this: "Please honor the spirit of the thread. It's not for opposing views. The intention is for those of us with similar views on feminism to have a space to gather, share insights and find support.' If you have differing views, this thread isn't for you.
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I suppose I’m a feminist under the definition in the topic post, however, I don’t really identify as such. Personally, I’ve found a lot of feminist voices (mostly online) tend to be hateful of men generally and if I hate, it’s absolutely on an individual basis. I’m fortunate to have not dealt with much gender discrimination, other than the car salesman talking to my husband, who quickly stops them and clearly states that I am buying the car. But I’m here with you all
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illimae, there are many voices of feminism. Contrary to popular belief feminism has nothing to do with belittling men. In fact feminism does not support sexism against either gender.
Feminism works towards equality, not female superiority.
May I just say, I have a Dad (who's passed), a husband of over 30 years, a son, a step-son, a grandson and a bunch of nephews as well as friends and neighbors who are men, and I don't hate any of them!
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I am a feminist. I have never not been a feminist. I'm now a GC radfem.
Your definition of feminism is not the only definition. You are making very broad statements about what feminism is and isn't but you don't own that word. Are you saying you're only wanting to hear about feminism that is totally aligned with yours? Because I don't think it's fair for one person to say "this is feminism please don't disagree with me"
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moth, I never said my definition is the only one. You come across as very antagonistic towards me and I'm not sure why. Not sure why you would accuse me of thinking I own the word feminism. I don't think you care for me very much. Do you have anything to add to the thread, or you are just here to argue?
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DivineMrsM: yes, I will join you and thank you for starting this thread. I am not into male bashing but do not want someone telling me they will give me equal rights nor finding that a qualified woman is overlooked for a position because she might have children. I actually turned down a job offer, with a prestigious medical institution, when they wanted me to sign a statement that if I became pregnant while in their employ, they would have a "job" for me after a maternity leave (without pay) but it most likely not be the one I was currently going to have (in other words most likley a demotion with loss of pay as well). True, this was many moons ago but this still persists in the workplace, just not so blatantly.
Moth: I am not sure of the definition of gender critical rad/fem so perhaps you need to offer one so we can understand your stance? This is not a criticism but a chance for my own growth.
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Thanks divine. This is a great discussion topic and I never imagined that you were presenting a singular no variation allowed definition of feminism. One of the worst bits of fallout from the pandemic is that it seems to have many people tense, testy, and quick to react. Your op was a good opening to what I hope will be an ongoing discussion 😘
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This is a great topic, DivineMrsM! I'll follow with great interest and support. Thank you for starting the thread!
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I'll gladly join in as well. I have considered myself a feminist since I hit adulthood basically. The sad thing is that now my younger daughter (I have two daughters) has issues with the term "feminist", just like illimae states earlier in the thread. She objects whenever I say I'm a feminist because in her mind (she's 22) "feminists think they're bettter than men" and I'm not that way so I couldn't be a feminist. I wonder where this notion came from! It makes me sad.
I've been a woman in a very seriously male-dominated field for 25 years and I raised my girls pretty much single-handedly since they were quite young. I have quite a few stories. I find that things have been getting better lately, though, especially in the last 5-10 years. I currently work at a company with a good mix of age groups and the younger men seem to do better with equality than the men my age. I'm generalizing, but it's my personal observation.
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I have a number of things to say which will take me a bit of time, but right now as a good little feminist wife (Mrs M) it’s time for me to get dinner on the table. Haha, seriously! I will be back in a bit when supper is done. Btw, my husband alway cleans up the kitchen after I cook.
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wait I'm not being tense or testy? I was responding to the post just above mine where divine said "In fact feminism does not support sexism against either gender.
Feminism works towards equality, not female superiority." That's a statement of opinion about what feminism is.
Divine, honestly I don't dislike you or anything like that. I'm sorry if I'm pooping on your thread; I've been a feminist for decades and I'm not trying to be combative. I'm just pointing out that these are not things all feminists agree about.
Betrayal: radical feminists see the world and society as dominated by patriarchy and seek a fundamental power reordering. Gender critical feminism seeks to abolish gender and focus on sex based oppression. Males and females are biological sexes, not boxes which delineate behaviour and roles. So males and females can act and dress as they like and pursue whatever career or talent they want. Whereas gender is a set of stereotypes which boxes people in. That's sort of the 30 second soundbite version. Generally pro choice, anti-porn, anti- prostitution. Pro recognition of unpaid care, maternity allowances. Opposed to surrogacy. Pro love 😊
This is all in contrast to liberal feminism which from a radfem pov simply capitulated to what men want. From a radfem pov if it's not making men uncomfortable it's not feminism.
Some radfem are misandrist but I'm not. I just think men need to sit down and be quiet for a bit.
I do not think we are anywhere near equality.
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Hi DivineMrsM, I am in favor of feminism and I do love men! It all started for me with the magazine Cosmopolitan. I went to Middlebury college in Vt. to hear Gloria Steinem speak as a young adult. There are men out their that will always be male chauvinist, but I have chosen to be with men that appreciate me. It hasn't always been easy, but I feel things are improving for my daughters. I want my grandson to be well rounded and happy too.
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Thanks, everyone, for your input. There's a few points I need to make:
I will be transparent here and tell you that I messaged the Moderators and asked them for some clarity about the direction this thread started going in. They gave great advice:
They suggested that since the definition of feminism I gave was not precisely how everyone interprets the word/ideaology, I could ask:
"What does feminism mean to *you*?"
I think that's a most excellent question and one that in my humanness did not think to ask. The definition I gave was never intended to be some rigid, unquestionable interpretation. That's why I used the phrase "in general". One meaning of the word "general" from Merriam-Webster means "not confined by specialization or careful limitation", and that's why I specifically used the word.
As to the definition I gave "feminism": "the belief in full social, economic, and political equality and opportunities for all genders. It's about respecting diverse women's experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights."These are not my own words but a combination of descriptions I gleaned from a couple of different websites. They are as follows:
This one from Britannica:
This one from International Women's Development Agency https://iwda.org.au/learn/what-is-feminism/
Also, when I replied to illimae's post in regards to women, men and feminism, I used this website's explanation about how feminism works towards equality, not female superiority. You may think otherwise, but this is how I view it, and that's why I used their words:
Now it's easy to confront me and say everything I've written about feminism is only my opinion, but I am just a tiny little grain of sand in the universe. Maybe take your argument up with Britannica?
One more thing. I've read a couple of Brené Brown's books and watched her TED talk on video. She likes to say how great it is to be vulnerable and tells some wonderful stories of people who've shown their vulnerabilities and it was somehow positively life changing/life affirming or something for them. Well, I was being very vulnerable when I began this thread on feminism. Never seems to fail, tho, that when I allow myself to be unguarded, I get attacked. I'm not sure why that is, but that's my experience with vulnerability and that's my experience on this thread.
Betrayal, I appreciate your graceful way of asking Moth to offer "her definition of gender critical rad/fem so we can understand your stance. This is not a criticism but a chance for my own growth."
Moth, thanks for your thirty second soundbite (your definition, not mine) of your description of Gender critical feminism. Yes, I read it. Had to read it a few times to understand it, but it was insightful.
To everyone: I plan to edit my original post to include the question "What does feminism mean to you?" I will wait until tomorrow to adjust that, but when I do, I will make note that it is an edit. For now, I will say that the definition of feminism I gave in the OP reflects my opinion of what it means and that it may have different meanings to others.
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Divine, I appreciate the clarification and agree that definitions are interpreted differently, which is party why we humans tend to misunderstand things sometimes, different people, different “truths”. I’m interested to see a variety of opinions, I may not always agree but I actually like it when people disagree, not for the drama but the learning experience.
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Moth: Thanks for the edification on your gender critical rad/fem stance. I, too, had to reread it to fully understand. I agree that we have not achieved equality yet but do accept that in my lifetime I have seen advances in some aspects for the female experience for the positive. When I first entered the workforce my male counterparts, performing the same job, were paid more and this persisted until we unionized. It has not been erased though because we still make less than males and are less likely to be given a promotion based on merit rather than penis status. So I don't think genitalia should be a deciding factor.
I am pro-choice due to work experiences where unwanted pregnancies were forced on women and I saw the aftermath in dysfunctional families, socioeconomic disparities and child abuse. I still believe I have the right to control what happens to my body and for that reason most of my physicians are female after negative, paternalistic experiences with male physicians who wanted to "little lady me".
I will not shop at Hobby Lobby due to their stance on birth control. They will pay for Viagra but not BCP. Same for Catholic church supporting Viagra but not BCP.
I do not bash males unless they need it and am selective in the process to not address their gender but the issue that is at hand or if they feel they can intimidate me. I had one guy aggress me by pressing close and hulking over me (he was much taller) and I just calmly told him to retreat because he needed to consider what was in reach of my hand. He got the message and backed off.
Not sure what kind of feminist that makes me but I raised my son to be considerate of women, he learned to sew and cook and is the chief cook in his household. My DD would be embarrased when I told her her dates were Losers and by my use of The thumb and index finger L on my forehead. When her last boyfriend harrassed her about getting a college education, I threw him out of the house and told him not to return until he could respect her and her decisions. It was the end of that relationship and she has since married the man of her dreams who loves and respects her.
So I think we will all have an aspect/interpretation of feminism that we feel best suits us and our definition. I hope we can discuss them and use this as a learning platform to promote ourselves and others. Unity is what we need, there is enough division in the world without it occurring here.
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I don't think the definition of feminism is up for interpretation. It has always been crystal clear that it is about equality of the sexes (socially economically and politically). One and one = two. No need for interpretation.
What feminism means to you and how we can get to equality: now that is definitely something that can be different things to different people.
Moth's sound bite definition of Radfem still sounds like plain old feminism to me. The world is still a patriarchal dominated place and equality will never happen until things are re-ordered more equitably. Nothing radical about that really. Didn't quite understand the bit about Gender critical. Elucidate if you will Moth, I would love to hear more.
A person who hates/denigrates or seeks to devalue men is a person who hates men (for whatever reason)... nothing to do with feminism.
Anyway, things are becoming quite fascinating with the younger generations. Gender fluid, transgender are realities that are going to add more sauce to the pot..
For now, we still have many more rivers to cross before women gain true equality. And that's in the more developed countries...
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I accidentally posted this to a completely wrong thread, I guess I can’t multitask like I used to.
I think "feminist" can be misunderstood by some because lately the loudest voices seem extra angry but I'm old enough to know better, where the fight for equality came from and how far it's come.
What do you all think of a female VP, not in general but specifically this last election? A lot of women were cheering but I thought it was a hollow victory. No men were even considered, so how was that true equality? I'd love to see someone win the top spot against all others.
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As opposed to nearly every election in the past 250 years when a woman wasn't even considered? I disagree about Kamala Harris, illamae. Even though she wouldn't have been my first choice, I think her election was a step toward some equality in our political world here in the US. Not a huge one, but progress nonetheless.
As far as what feminism means to me, it doesn't mean replacing a patriarchy with a matriarchy. Then we become that which we decry. And as some one who loves the men in my life, I would never want them to be told to sit down and shut up anymore than I want women to be told to do so. To me it reeks of revenge, not equality.
Just my two cents. For what it's worth.
And thanks for starting this thread, Divine. We women need to be empowered, not just in our personal and professional lives, but in our medical care as well.
Trish
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I just edited the original post, making note of the addition. It's kind of funny, because looking at the post, I think I could have simply wrote the first paragraph and hit the submit button and all woulda been well. Instead I sort of shot myself in the foot by expounding on the topic. My mantra this year has even been “Less is more". Ah, well. Part of me does want to delete everything after that first paragraph, but I will let it ride for now.
On to other things.
I was rather surprised that there wasn't already a dedicated thread on this forum to discuss feminism. I searched numerous times over at least the past year or so, thinking maybe I was overlooking it somehow. I'm glad to see it's of interest to others, and I find the comments very interesting and in this big old patriarchal world, I feel wonderfully supported by your views. When I get a bit more time, I want to address them.
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To me, my feminism is just a part of my wish for equal treatment for all people, and I agree that replacing a patriarchy with a matriarchy is the opposite of what feminism is seeking to do. I'm confused about the term "gender critical", too.
As for Kamala Harris, I have an interesting anecdote. I watched the early debates for the Democratic candidate. One day after a debate my manager (a woman, first female manager I've had in about 15 years) asked me if I watched the debate and what I thought. I told her that I was disappointed in quite a few of the candidates and said my favorite of the group was Pete Buttigieg. She actually accused me of sexism for not liking Kamala Harris! So there I was treating all candidates equally and judging the debate by their performance and yet I'm accused of being sexist for choosing a favorite who wasn't a woman. Anyway, she still isn't my favorite person in the world, but I teared up when she was elected. It's great that we finally have a woman in one of the top spots.
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I agree with illimae and SummerAngel about the VP. It is kinda of embarrassing to see her laughing at every comment and not saying anything substantial. Then the press gives her kudos for hosting a luncheon and cooking! Possibly this is from who is in charge of her? I see the most hypocrisy and lack of feminism coming from Hollywood actors. Except for my stint in the service, most of my bosses have been women. Now, that there are more men in health care things are changing there as well.
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I love this thread and thank you for starting it. There is a very painful, but extremely feminist and brilliant book/memoir/illness narrative about enduring breast cancer. I strongly recommend it - although I read it in my first week of chemo and it was too hard/painful - I should have waited. LOL. That said, if you can tolerate the rawness (please: I warned you), it won the Pulitzer Prize. It is that good. "The Undying" by Anne Boyer. It spoke to me on so many levels as a woman/human/cancer patient, etc.. It's relevant to being a woman and a feminist and to being someone who is living through what we're all living through in some way. Anyway, just throwing that out there.
Also: I love, respect and adore and admire my husband, my son, and my daughter. I went to an all girls school growing up and to a woman's college. I'm 52 now and I am definitely a feminist. I love your definition and I understand that you were just trying to start a conversation on this site that did not seem to happen elsewhere. Thank you for doing that. I've been wondering how there can be such a giant collection of women on this site and why there isn't a direct dialogue about all of this anywhere. So this was brave of you to post. It couldn't have been easy. And making yourself vulnerable is always a healthy choice, even if some people aren't able to be gracious or considerate or kind in return. I just worry about online vulnerability because - well - you never know who is out there ready to stomp on you because you took a risk. Social media has its downsides for sure. Upsides too. But yikes, people can be so awful online - where they might not be that way in person, you know?
I feel old now (especially as I struggle with breast cancer and the treatments - ugh) - and when I think about how far we have come since I was in high school and college, it is amazing. Back in high school, I took a women's studies class and it was so exciting, energizing and mind blowing to me as a teen. Also: it was unique and so many people thought my teacher was silly or crazy for teaching that class. People were so dismissive of her - back then. It was awful! Also: my best friend in high school was a closeted lesbian and now she's been legally married to her wife for years and they have 2 grown sons. So much good change. SO much change in so little time! And it's all related, I think. On the other hand, there is still a LONG way to go. When RBG died, look what happened to the Supreme Court. Huge backlash. So upsetting. And the ways many people talk on tv and in social media and just out there about our VP, it's all so grotesquely racist and misogynist and we are living with so much backlash, etc. now. Modern technology has allowed us to connect in such amazing ways. But also, people seem to feel free to use social media and even this site to be hateful, angry, intolerant and vicious. That's not progress, that is scary and sad and holds us back. 2 steps forward, 3 steps backward. 10 steps forward, 12 steps backward.
I think how great it is that my daughter can safely explore her sexuality and ask questions about what it means to be a girl/woman now without fear and out in the open. At least in our family. And in some parts of our culture. I think it is amazing that my son is thoughtful and wants to deliberately grow into a respectful, loving, kind, open-hearted and ethical man. I deeply value the men in my life and the women in my life. I've been abused severely - truly in grotesque ways - by a woman (my own Mom) - so I know to my core that men and women can be equally horrible. And abuse from anyone is awful. Male or female. I've felt safer with my husband than with anyone ever in this life on this planet. He's a beautiful, generous, open soul. He deserves as much respect and kindness as woman does. I don't want him to sit down and be quiet. He has a lot of really powerfully beautiful, generous, loving, amazing things to say. He should be heard too.
I just want my daughter's voice to have the same air time as my son's. I want her to get equal pay for equal work. I want her to feel safe in this world. I want all girls to grow up feeling safe and respected. All boys. All humans deserve that.
Anyway, thanks for opening up this dialogue. I'm not sure I'll participate much, as I hesitate with online forums to say much. It can get really ugly and I feel scared for people when they stick their necks out on social media. I just threw myself into this to offer support. I send you all my best wishes and hope that everyone is feeling ok today. I'm in chemo now, so I'm feeling crappy. But I'll make my way through, as we all do.
Peace.
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Tryshla, I think there should have been more women in the past too but I understand why there weren’t (too many barriers, legal and societal). My thing is, when it was stated that a woman would be picked specifically, I heard “gender is our primary qualification for this job, above all else” and that, no matter what gender it benefits, bothers me.
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As a centre-leaning liberal Canadian, I don't like the new trend of favouring someone based of their gender or race. I check the gender and race box (female Iranian immigrant), but I would like to primarily be chosen for my qualification for the job and treated on equal playing field. I'm a grown up and don't need special needs and can take care of myself and my needs. To be honest, I find it condescending that someone thinks I need extra help. It diminishes my accomplishments and it may even set me up for failure.
But I agree with OP's definition of feminism and as someone who grew up in a society that treated women as half men, I am extra grateful for the equality of opportunities I enjoy now. There is a lot of work to be done, but we'll get there in the fullness of time, maybe not in our lifetime, but we'll get there. Given the millennia of patriarchy, it's too much to expect things to change in a generation or two. We are still in the shock and adjustment phase. I prefer gradual and lasting changes over radicalism, the latter never ends well.
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