How has the Pandemic affected you as a cancer patient/survivor
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Not if it means sacrifing our own lives.
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See? It doesn’t mean that.
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Huh, it's strange how we all see things differently. I see more young people (which to me is anyone under 50!) going out to dinner and attending crowded events unmasked. I'm a boomer and my friends are masked everywhere they go.
The little first grader next door is home for two weeks because some child in her class tested positive. So sad for all the kids missing out on a normal childhood for almost two years.
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The young adults I know are vaxed and wearing their masks to class or work. The middle-aged as well. It's mostly grandparent-aged folks I see going around with chin masks or none. Sometimes I think that many of their generation had only a fairly poor high school science education, and that may be part of why it is hard to get them to understand and accept science-based arguments for vaccines and masks. It could be that they are reasonably intelligent, but lack the background. The US has done a poor job of educating people about the science around covid, in my opinion. One elder I know thinks that a plastic face shield is protective. I have tried to explain aerosols, but I don't know if any of it has gotten through. Same with the need for a booster, especially if you are older.
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ShetlandPony, I don't know where you live, but I haven't seen that with JUST older people in my area (fairly large city with many suburbs). We're going to one unmasked gathering next weekend with my husband's siblings and their spouses - and we've all been pretty fanatical about our shots and boosters, so it feels safe. And all of us wear masks anywhere public, when we have to go someplace. The non-maskers I see, like in grocery stores, are ALL ages. The ones I've seen posting pictures at concerts and sporting events are MOSTLY younger.
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yes wrenn.
- I personally don't know of anyone who has been to an unmasked indoor event, other than small family gatherings. Most indoor spaces here require masks, and ALL require proof of vaccination. Around here, people get tested before seeing family if they don't live with them. It's the travellers who may mean well and "try" but don't really understand that the rules are real and they got us through some dark times, that do us all in.
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I think that masking & vaccination demographics do vary geographically--even micro-regionally (neighborhoods & wards within a given city). Most of my neighbors (including boomers) are donning their masks outdoors before they get out of their cars in parking lots or when walking within a block of their shopping or dining destinations. (I find myself doing the same, not just because it's easier and lessens the chance of straps breaking from frequent don-doff cycles but also because it shields my nose & throat from cold air and keepsthe sniffles at bay).
The only vaccine mandates for indoor dining or shopping here are imposed by the venues themselves. In Chicago, indoor mask mandates are state, city, and-county-wide--compliance is weak the more right-wing the town or even neighborhood (e.g., Chicago's far NW & SW Sides, where Trump and MAGA signs abound). The only people I see maskless on the rare occasions I take public transit are the homeless (many of whom are easy to spot as such due to being bundled up even in hot weather--wearing everything they own--and sleeping across several seats).
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Are free masks widely available? If not, don't be surprised when people who can't afford them don't wear them.
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I see mask incomopliance across all age groups and education levels. some people believe once they are vaccinated, they are safe on individual level. I blame CDC for claiming "your health is in your own hands". some bought into the "I followed rules, masked, vaxxed, I am done" narrative. Also some doctors haven't done a good job educating people. one of my friend's mom didn't get a flu shot and covid booster until she ended up in ER for some other matter. the hospital gave her a flu shot but not covid booster. i don't get it, why? unless the booster will interfere with a patient's condition or treatment, ERs should offer patients covid vaccine and/or booster when they are there.
Our mayor has been caught 2x on video unmasked while partying at some club. I would have given her a pass had this been one time thing, but being a repeat "unapologetic" offender and knowing the anti public health ppl will capitalize on her mistake is not a good look.
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This is a very long article (and perhaps unfortunately behind the NYT's paywall), but it sums up the reasons for vaccine hesitancy among the poor--not just in the U.S. but in "developing nations." It's due to a decades-long erosion of the concept of the common good (replaced by "self-reliance," "self-help" resulting in the "everyone for themself" mentality); mistrust of governments and institutions that have underserved them; and the perception that even though COVID is a real threat, they have other and more harmful things (e.g., crime, poverty, inadequate housing, hunger, religious & political persecution) facing them daily, which they prioritize over the possibility of dying of COVID (as well as measles or even polio).
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/03/opinion/vaccine...
The most accurate predictor of vaccination in the U.S. is education, which in turn is a signifier of social class. The higher the socioeconomic status, the higher the rate of vaccination--to such an extent that there comes a point when the vaccination gap between Democrats & Republicans disappears.
Here in Chicago, masks are handed out free of charge by businesses and medical offices to those who aren't wearing them. Inability to afford masks isn't a factor, but rather not knowing how & where to find them--as well as not wanting to be told what to do.
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At the end of the article they address how to overcome vaccine hesitancy, not just accept it as insurmountable.
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Never said it was insurmountable--just pointed out why it is so pervasive, even globally. Every nation--not just the wealthy ones--needs to enact policies to foster the collective good. But to do that, those governments themselves also need to defy the selfishness of increasingly nationalist, xenophobic and otherwise right-wing electorates. Good luck with that.
And I reiterate that refusing to give booster shots is NOT one of those desirable policies. The fact that Omicron likely originated in Europe demonstrates that unvaccinated (including willfully so) people, even in wealthy nations, are breeding grounds for variants. Again, if we were to somehow, miraculously, provide enough not just doses but proper storage units, syringes, and personnel to vaccinate 95% of the world, that leaves a "reservoir" (the term used in that article) of 350,000,000 unvaccinated people in whom the virus replicates and mutates. Insisting--as the W.H.O. does--that wealthy nations fall on our swords and sacrifice our seniors and immunocompromised people by discontinuing booster shots--sounds noble, but counterproductive, as it would still spread COVID within and beyond our borders.
On the whole, I admire Canada's universal health care system and wish we had it--but I am appalled by the draconian age restrictions for vaccinations (whether first, second or booster) you cited, which leave so many of its citizens unprotected.
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You must think I’m really dumb.
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No I think you're really doctrinaire and judgmental.
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Well, that’s awesome!
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"I am appalled by the draconian age restrictions for vaccinations (whether first, second or booster) you cited, which leave so many of its citizens unprotected."
Let's not forget that the reason for Canada's draconian age restrictions for the 1st and 2nd doses was because we didn't have enough vaccine supply... because the U.S. mandated that all vaccines produced in the U.S. had to stay in the U.S.. (Read my posts from mid-September in this thread for the facts that explain this.)
For boosters, Canada is actually in pretty good shape, since in accordance with accepted vaccine science, we spaced out our doses by as much as 3 months. This was to get more first doses into more people, given our limited supply. That turned out to be a wise decision since subsequent studies have shown that a longer interval between doses provides better results. In any case, because of that, most Canadians are just at or coming up to 6 months since their second dose - and generally boosters are not considered necessary until 6 months. Vaccine eligibility is therefore being phased in in accordance with this timeline, with most people becoming eligible at or around 6 months. For example, here in Ontario, with the exception of some health-compromised individuals, no one can get a booster until 168 days (just under 6 months) after their second dose, even if they fall into a group that is eligible for a booster. DH and I are both in groups that have been eligible for boosters for some time, but we each just hit 168 days 5 days ago. He gets his booster tomorrow and I get mine on Tuesday.
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ChiSandy - What I wrote about the Quebec vaccine eligibility does not apply to the rest of Canada. While they seem “draconian” to you, our situation is still not as bad on the whole as what you have. So, don’t worry about us. Who am I kidding? You weren’t at all.
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Appalling…
“On the whole, I admire Canada's universal health care system and wish we had it--but I am appalled by the draconian age restrictions for vaccinations (whether first, second or booster) you cited, which leave so many of its citizens unprotected.“ - ChiSandy
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The U.S. vaccine rollout was a goddamn nightmare. Some states, like the one I'm in, wasted a huge amount of it by sending it all to small red-voting towns (our idiot governor's base) in the early weeks. They expected city residents to drive three or four hours to get vaccines. I know a few people who did that, but it was impossible for any poor people to get to places with no transportation - and the working poor couldn't get an entire day off even if they had a car! When the supply finally came to the cities, it was bungled again, and in locations not well served by public transportation. If you were a registered patient through the hospital system where your PC is on staff, you could get a shot appointment that way, which is what I did. My husband is a state employee and they were given one location about 25 miles from where they work to get shots - and nowhere near public transportation, once again. Finally, months after the first state rollout, they opened vax centers in the city that weren't part of the hospitals. By then, I'm sure there were a lot of people who were completely untrusting of the system that had screwed them on this, as on so many issues over the years. I got my booster in early October at a pharmacy, but it's not the location where I get my prescriptions because they didn't have it - they weren't on the mystery list of approved locations. I have no idea if any of the few pharmacies in the underserved neighborhoods have it, but I'd be surprised if it's easily available. My husband's appointment for a shot was 8:00 on a Sunday night! What if we didn't have a car? I wonder what the total amount of wasted vaccines over the last several months has been, based on how badly the distribution was in just one state. I'm sure we'd have had enough to share with other countries if the states, many with anti-vax governors, hadn't insisted on handling the distribution themselves. It should have been a federal plan, but that would have probably led to a full-out war. This country sucks in so many ways.
I would LOVE for us to have a health system similar to Canada's. It's not perfect, but the access to it seems to not discriminate against the poor like the U.S. systems do. I've been too poor to have insurance many times in my earlier life, and had to do without necessary medical care during those times. It's something that is always on my mind. Even now it's "There but for the grace of Medicare (and Advantage plans)" I'd be without insurance. And like most other things in this country, there's massive waste and no equity in the distribution of care.
Rant over, but not the thoughts that led to it.
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I second what Alice said about us vaccine rollout. In the Bay Area, for example, we were told to talk to your PCPs during the initial rollout. So ppl flooded their PCPs about vaccine, and in reality, none of the PCPs had access to vaccine. Then, it was based on which hospitals your PCPs were associated with. What about the people without PCPs or insurance? When the state finally rolled out mass sites, each site used a different appointment website. To get an appointment for my elderly parents, I had to refresh multiple sites none stop. I was doing my daily walk while refreshing my phone nonstop and finally got an appointment for them. I felt like I won the lottery.
On top of this, people like me, who are stage iv yet not old enough and not working for any essential sectors, did not get priority access to vaccine. Ladies in my local stage iv support group wrote to our state representatives, senators and vaccine committee, we were dismissed. Some of them went to multiple sites to wait for leftover doses.
The booster rollout is another failure with Pfizer getting approved first, then it's this ppl over 65 "should", ppl over 18 "may". Unless you are glued to covid news, nobody is going to know if or when they qualify. I see people in my fb vaccine group now scrambling to find boosters.I think in a recent interview, dr. fauci said he would grade the u.s covid response a "b" or "c". I like fauci, but I couldn't help but rolling my eyes at his comment. Our whole covid response is an embarrassment. It's all talk and no action. It's just a bunch of talking heads (politicians, doctors, media) throw a bunch of buzz words at you, but nothing ever materializes.
okay, this is my Friday night rant.
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Chowdog, I think that Fauci's cluelessness on this is because people at that level don't get feedback from the people at the bottom. He (and others) are mistakenly trusting people high up in the states' distribution chains for information. I wish someone practical and persistent like Amy Klobuchar was involved. She has a knack for sniffing out BS and getting all the facts. All the traits that make her kind of tactless at times politically would be hugely useful on this issue.
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Regarding sick days...in many healthcare facilities, staff are indeed penalized for taking sick days. Or everyone is so short, the sick staff have to take care of patients. Right now where I work, they are short staffed with no available agency staff in the area. So if illness hits, they're all still taking care of (otherwise healthy) patients. We're a specialty area of medicine so it's not like a regular RN can step in and help.
This is how illness spreads. I wouldn't be surprised if my coworkers were to conceal or lie about mild covid symptoms.
I'm grateful at least to be allied health where I can just take time off without directly affecting anyone (unless it's for a long time and I eventually need coverage for my work to get done). But I'm always wary of my nursing coworkers.
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There is nothing appalling about Canadian healthcare system, the vast majority of us are quite satisfied with it (despite occasional grumblings). Our vaccine rollout was 2-3 months behind US (due to supply issues), that's why majority of us aren't at the point of needing a booster yet. And government agencies have been very flexible in changing/updating guidelines to accommodate a changing pandemic. We had longer interval between two doses (again, due to early supply issues) which proved to be superior to 3-4 week interval, so we are probably better protected as a population. Next week, Ontario government is opening up to all over 50 who had their 2nd shot over 6 months ago and will be moving to all groups starting in January.
Yes, in a universal healthcare system there is no "I want it all, I want it now" mindset that is so common in private healthcare systems. But this is a trade-off we make for having such an inclusive system which has given us overall great health metrics, both in general health (longer life expectancy for example) and Covid outcomes compared to the US.
As to vaccines for developing countries, I think the logistical obstacles on the ground plus misinformation are far too complex and deep-rooted to be fixed quickly and it's not the responsibility of the rich countries to fix them, even if they could and quite frankly it's a bit paternalistic. These are autonomous nations and have more than capable people to handle the situation and if corruption and greed at the top is the issue, I don't know how it can be helped. Yes, it is an ideal to help where possible and it sucks that all this is prolonging the pandemic and I'm open to practical solutions. From everything I read, there is no supply issues in Africa to the point that some countries are even asking vaccines not to be shipped anymore. Besides, if we look at the stats so far, rich countries had some of the worst outcomes. The number of deaths in Europe and US per capita outnumbers those of developing countries, most likely due to average age. India had a terrible Delta wave, but for a period they, smartly, stopped most of their vaccine export to focus on their own population. Nobody should fault India, US/CAN or Europe for taking care of their people first.
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Interesting about the vaccine rollout differences depending where you live. We were very lucky in that respect I guess. At first when only certain groups were eliglible, they were only available in bizarre far off locations like state universities 6 hours away. But very soon after they added sites near public transportation sites. Getting an appointment was a hard at first, but over a couple of months they became easily available. Once everyone was eligible, there were shots every few blocks!!
Right now I pass 5 free testing and vaccine sites on my way to work. The line outside the testing site a block away was back to pre-vaccine length yesterday.
Travel definitely matters. Friday, 3/4 of one ballet class was out. One family contacted me to say daughter was considered a close contact at school, so they will test her in a few days. Thur, 1/2 of each of 2 class was out. Wed I had 1/3 of a class out, again one parent told me her kid was a close school contact.
I want to SCREAM "Parents, if you must travel, please don't send your kid back to school until AFTER your full quarentine time!!!!
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ErenTo,
I absolutely fault the U.S. because they forcefully over-rode the natural production/distribution system of pharmaceutical manufacturers.
As I explained in my September posts, most companies rationalize production; it is often inefficient and costly to produce the same products in every country, so it is normal and commonplace that companies will choose to have manufacturing sites that service several countries. This is the case with the pharmaceutical manufacturers. There are many drugs (most antibiotics, for example) that are not produced at all in the U.S. and Americans are entirely dependent on production from other countries. With Covid-type vaccines, it happens that the U.S. is a prime base for manufacturing. These U.S. sites were set up with the intent and capacity to supply more than the U.S. - other countries like Canada and Mexico (and probably Central America and possibly many other countries) were expected to get their supply from the American sites.
What Trump did, and what Biden continued, was put in place an "America First" policy, which said that U.S. vaccine manufacturers had to fill American orders first. They then flooded Pfizer, Moderna and Astra-Zeneca with more orders than the U.S. could possibly use or the manufacturers could produce. This effectively stopped these companies from shipping any product to any country outside of the U.S., even though they had orders from other countries (such as Canada and Mexico) and even though their American manufacturing sites were set up with the capacity and intent to supply these other countries. The U.S. never even approved the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, which was approved in Canada and Mexico, and yet they placed ordered on AZ and forced them to hold all supply to the point of allowing it to rot (go past expiry code date) on the warehouse floor.
Europe did not do this. At one point the EU considered this, but they quickly decided that it would be the wrong thing to do. And in fact they allowed their manufacturers to supply Canada and other countries that normally would not have been supplied from their production sites, because these countries had been cut off by the U.S.. Early on, realizing what was happening, Pfizer in the EU revamped their manufacturing sites so that they could increase capacity - this is how Canada ended up getting much of our supply from May/June onward. So the EU did exactly the opposite of what the U.S. did - as manufacturing ramped up, they rationed supply out to all countries that needed it. And this is why Canada and most EU countries had "draconian age restrictions" particularly during the late winter/early spring. India did not do this either - not until Delta exploded in India, at a time when supply had already started to ramp up for other countries; what India did at that time was necessary and understandable because they were facing such a massive outbreak.
Pharmaceutical companies are private companies, not owned or run by the government. Their production is not "American supply". I can understand the U.S. government working with these companies to ensure that American orders be filled first, but by dumping so many orders on these companies and forcing them to hold all inventory for the U.S., they went way beyond that - and there is no question that Trump and Biden (particularly Biden, since most of the vaccine production happened after he was in office) knew the effect of what they were doing. I wonder how many people in other countries died because of this "America First" policy?
Whether some States or cities screwed up their vaccine distribution is a totally different issue. The fact is that during late 1Q21 and early 2Q21 the U.S. was flooded with vaccine supply while other countries had minimal supply. Look at the chart that SerenityStat posted above that shows the timing of vaccinations in Canada and the U.S.. It's clear as day what happened. Yes, a country should take care of their own people first. But to do that in such as way as to cause unnecessary harm to the people of other countries, that's unconscionable.
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Beesie -
Vaccine rollout - I wasn't complaining about the vaccine rollout here in QC. I posted a chart of new cases by age group showing kids and 30-49 had much higher trends than other age groups. ChiSandy assumed this happened because Boomers were more responsible. Vaccinations for 5-12 were just approved. In what way should kids be blamed for not being vaccinated? I blame the provincial leaders for not having better NPIs. No idea why ChiSandy determined we have "draconian" age restrictions. Could it be better? Yes. Is there a place on earth where it's perfect? In QC we have a single portal for scheduling vaccinations, flu and COVID. We've had minor issues, but nothing like what others have had.
Global vaccine equity - Yes, it's complex and difficult. Fortunately, there are people dedicated to finding solutions. Is it the responsibility of the wealthy nations? Maybe, maybe not. The South African scientists who detected the omicron VOC publicly asked for support from other nations. Seriously, the experts in Africa are saying Africa needs support. Do you want this pandemic to stop and prevent future pandemics? Then it's self-preservation, and it's necessary.
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Beesie, I absolutely don't dispute the early supply issues that was caused mostly by the US and I agree with you 100%. I'm specifically talking about later logistical issues on the ground in poorer countries. Not sure how clearer I can be: misinformation and domestic logistical challenges and/or corruption are not West's problem. If a person can't afford to get to the vaccine centre without losing half a day's wage, what is to be done. It's tragic. It's in fact easier to throw vaccine/money at things than fix this type of issue.
Not that I don't want for this pandemic to end (what a thing to insinuate), but we can't wish it away. Of course there are people dedicated in finding solutions, but the issue is not lack of willingness or people who are working hard to end this, it is the complexity and fragility of all the issues combined. I'm not being fatalistic or saying let's just surrender to the circumstances, I'm acknowledging the situation and adjusting my expectations to it. And sometimes the situation we find ourselves in plainly sucks, but I can't find the energy to dwell on the victim/villain mindset. It's exhausting.
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Again, the experts in Africa are asking for support. I’m sure they understand the complexities better than us.
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Yes, and I am sure they're being given the support they need, where possible. We may not be privy to all the things that go on behind the scenes, and some of them seem to better than Western countries in sequencing variants, despite our claim to greatness. What took US so long to discover their first Omicron cases. And I wish the reactionary governments would reverse the travel ban, what a stupid decision to punish them for doing everyone a service. This in itself is extremely harmful and slows down experts/help getting to the region.
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Probably not getting enough given the recency of their pinned tweet.
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