Anxious hubby looking for some advice/reassurance
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I hope what's going on with your wife turns out to be nothing but if it is cancer, this part of the forum might be helpful for you: https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/16 Lurking and reading may be useful now though!
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Glad you came back too, Serendipity!
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Clearly, the choice of pronouns is individual. I applaud and admire all partners who offer unconditional support to a significant other with bc. However, I am one of those folks who would be upset if my SO or close supporter said , We are having a lumpectomy or chemo, etc. For me, it’s simple. As the patient, only I went through surgery and treatment. Support is essential IMO, but no matter how much someone loves and cares for me, they will not be undergoing surgery or treatment. Again, the use of “we” doesn’t bother everyone but I personally would have been super upset if an SO said, “ We are having surgery, a scan, chemo, etc. “ . For me, that is not supportive, that’s presumptive. Again, this shouldn’t dissuade SO’s from posting, although we do have a caregivers forum, but they should be aware that there are varying attitudes about the use of a plural pronoun when in reality only the person with bc is actually undergoing treatment.
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I know this is only belaboring the issue (that can be seen as petty, except that it has scared people away), but I want to say that when my father saw himself and my mother as a team and used the term "we" frequently when she was battling a different kind of cancer many years ago, he never said anything like "we are getting chemo" or "we are getting an IV today", etc. He would say things like, "We need to tackle this problem." "We need to find out when her next appointment is." "We need to talk to the radiologist next week", and so forth. That is what I also see with the husbands and other support people on here. They don't say, "We are getting a scan." "We are having surgery." "We are having our port removed today." They say things like "We need more detail about what kind of breast cancer this is." "We are asking questions about chemo." I don't think it is common at all for the husbands and other supporters I see on here to act like they are the one getting needles stuck in them. It's just that they see it as a united, team effort, and they are very affected by it themselves, as they are facing the possibility of losing their spouse. They are doing what they believe a spouse or significant other would/should do in a case like this, presumably with their spouse's approval and appreciation.
Personally, I would have loved to have been part of "we" when I was first diagnosed and initially traumatized by the whole thing. Three years on, I 'd still like to be part of a "team" that saw this as "we". I haven't been married for years now, but I would have loved to have had someone like the caring and supportive husbands I see here, helping me out with everything. I would have loved to have had a husband by my side looking at this issue as a "we" sort of thing; a team. I'd still like to have that in my life if possible. Likewise, if I had a current spouse who was in a bad situation like this, I can only imagine that I would get very involved and start looking at forums like this one, read everything I could about whatever their condition was, and go to appointments with them, etc., presuming that's what they would like. If they said they'd rather manage it all on their own, I would go with that request, but I would like to think they'd welcome and appreciate the team effort, since we would be a "we" in that case.
Interesting, when I had my kids back in the 1980's I remember hearing many other expectant couples saying "We're having a baby!". I couldn't help but note those comments and think about how it would be the mother who actually "had" the baby, but I could tell that they were also trying to say that for them this was very much a couple's experience and that the father's inclusion in all of the goings on was important to them. I actually heard primarily women saying this, "We're pregnant!" kid of stuff. I don't think I ever heard one of the father's to be say it. I don't think any of the expectant father's thought for one minute that "they" were actually physically going to be having the baby. They were just wanting to be a big and helpful part of the whole experience. I think that's how it is for the husbands on here too.
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three tree,
I don’t want to belabor the point either as I can see both sides of the issue. I think we just need to remember that pronoun usage appears to be a matter of personal preference. The patient should determine what they prefer. Beyond that, we simply need to understand that what works for some may not work for others
Many years ago I had major abdominal surgery. My ex often spoke about how tired he was and that the recovery was longer than “we” expected. Given that he hadn’t actually had surgery, I was pretty steamed but that’s just me. Others may find the “we” comforting and as much as that doesn’t work for me, I understand that it does for others.
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exbrnxgrl - I basically agree with what you are saying. It's just when I see husbands on here using "we", I presume not only do they care and are trying to help, but that they and their spouses are in this together and presumably agree on what terms are being used. When someone posts on here about their spouse, we can hardly know what the non posting spouse is thinking about terminology, so we have to presume that the poster is well intentioned and doing a good thing, no matter what term they use.
Maybe there is something about exes too. I don't think my former spouse would have been all that attentive, and might have had similar feelings as yours about just wanting the whole thing over sooner than it actually took. But then, they are exes ...
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ThreeTree, every example of the use of the word "we" that you mentioned in your post is absolutely fine. All those examples are great in fact, since they show a supportive, involved and caring partner.
I have never seen anyone on this site complain or raise concern about any uses of the word "we" similar to your examples. I have only ever seen the issue raised in cases where a SO does in fact say "We are getting a scan." or "We are having surgery." or "We'll be getting the IV next week." or "Our diagnosis is..." or "Our treatment plan includes..." or "At our appointment with our surgeon, he said...".
If every supportive spouse made the distinctions that you mention, this issue would never come up. Yet it comes up fairly often.
I don't frequent discussion boards for male cancers, but I doubt we'd ever see a female partner saying "We're having our next prostate exam on Tuesday."
All that said, I applaud spouses who are involved their wive's care and appreciate those who come here for information and support.
Anxioushubby, good luck to your wife with her MRI. I hope that this turns out to be a false alarm and your time here is short, but if that's not the case, I hope you feel welcome here and I hope you get all the support you need.
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threetree,
A bit off topic and not quite the same but this reminds me of the choice to use Mrs. George Smith when one marries as opposed to using ones own name. Each couple has to decide what works for them. My former MIL, may she Rest In Peace, never forgave mefor not wanting to be addressed as Mrs, George Smith. She thought it was disrespectful of me to want to be addressed as Ms. Jane Nelson Smith! For professional reasons that is my legal name to this day. To each his own!
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Beesie - Thanks. I absolutely get what you are saying. I also wish Anxioushubby and his wife the best of luck with the MRI. Really hoping it is the "false alarm" that you mentioned it could be.
Exbrnxgrl - Yes, this is off topic or very distantly related, but my mother-in-law (was still such when she died) told me I should "never" lose my own name. I had taken my husband's last name, as I always thought it made for "family convenience" if nothing else. It was interesting that it was she who made a strong case that I at least use my given name sometimes, or it could be "lost" altogether. She used her husband's last name, however.
Also, when my husband and I got divorced I hadn't really thought about my name one way or the other, but he had it in his legal paperwork that my name should revert back to my maiden name! There's one about "since when does he decide?!" I do use my maiden name now, but because I want to, not because he wanted me to!
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My last comment on the subject (again with apologies the anxioushusband for overrunning his post) is that again, my husband was fantastic during my treatment. He went to most appointments with me including chemo infusions. He took extra duty in keeping things running at home. He commiserated and supported and loved me. He was great.
He went through something different than I did, though. I'm sure in many ways it was as traumatic, but it was different. anxioushusband, if your wife's diagnosis is cancer, you will go through something very difficult, for sure. But it will be different than what your wife experiences.
I would never try to own what my husband went through, or presume that I know how it affected him. WE did not go through being the spouse of a cancer patient, HE did. It's bad, too. But it isn't the same and we aren't the same person.
I actually think this is a good topic to discuss and am sorry if it has the affect of making anyone feel unwelcome. That is not my intention.
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It's not just about spouses, either. During my treatment I had two relatives who had had breast cancer themselves coming to appointments and helping me out. And at one point, when they weren't in the room, one of my doctors looked me right in the eye and said "They mean well and it's great that you have them, but please remember that this is about YOU. It's YOUR experience, not theirs". Everything was fine, I was fine, but I immediately understood what she was saying and what she was concerned about. I'm the quiet one and my relatives are....louder....and they probably did a lot more talking than me. Ha. I'm sure they've seen it before where family members make it about themselves instead of letting the actual patient be the center.
I don't think you are doing this, anxioushusband! It was just an interesting thing that happened to me that I'd forgotten about until now when I saw Mountain Mia's comment.
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I wonder how many we lose due to exactly this? I am so sad and the testimonials of those who did not feel welcome here but dared to come back should register with us all. These discussions by long timers are good elsewhere but not here. I have raised this concern before by how newbies were judged for their support for the pink revolution before they became informed. I think there should be forums for newcomers just like stage IV. The needs are so very separate. I am now reluctant to refer others here
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TB90, I think it's a great idea to have a forum for newcomers! I encourage you to take that idea to the moderators. Seems like it would be useful in a variety of ways.
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Really. So when you are discussing your worst fears with your MO and he or she holds you accountable for saying the wrong pronoun to identify their gender, you welcome that diversion? There is a time and place and newbies deserve being the focus without it becoming a competitive discussion about who knows better.
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Sorry, but I am clinical and a clinician and what is happening here is an example of worst practice. I will discuss this with the moderators, whom I am certain would love to know newcomers are respected, welcomed and supported.
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I too am willing to support spouses, or daughters, or sons or aunts, or whatever. That's why I keep coming back here. But while I'm more than willing to try to 'pay it forward' & carve time out of my day to try to help anxious people - I must agree with Mountain & Alice that "WE" don't have cancer. "We" can be in an auto accident, but only one might have a broken leg. I applaud the support these two husbands are giving their wives. Sadly many do not. I do understand that many marriages are a team and everything is joint. However I do wish they would say 'my wife's cancer' and not 'our cancer'.
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Not willing to support anxious people? Am I losing my mind??? I am so glad everyone that has responded like this is so perfect. That you have never made an error. That all your relationships have been perfect. That your judgement never failed you. That you never regretted anything you said. I am so glad that I have made multiple errors, have embarrassed myself repeatedly and made judgements that would cause me to doubt myself. This has made me human with humility and tolerance for others. I am so glad that I acknowledge my limitations and honour those who have perservered despite mental health challenges, addictions, developmental challenges and societal issues like racism. I do NOT support insensitivity and intolerance of those who do not support your belief system
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Wrenn, I am not enraged. I am sad and shocked. Please ask me how I feel. Do not tell me. The world is shocking to me. I am supporting a community with members dying from Covid due to being unvaccinated. I try not to judge their decision. They are indigenous and their beliefs differ. I am accepting that. I am ensuring every service possible. Fighting over “we” and not being there for anxious people is astonishing to me. And your patronizing attitude is what is puzzling.
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Hi everyone.
There's a lot of people on this forum. Some are the patients, some are significant others, some are family, some may just be friends. but the one thing most people have in common when dealing with a stressful situation, is anxiety. When I wrote the original post, my mind was going through dark places due to intrusive thoughts. scenarios where I didn't have my wife, raising 2 kids on my own etc. And I just wanted to vent, maybe hear some kind words like Dres, TB90, ThreeTree and many more have offered.
I told my part of my story about what was going on, and I used the term "we" because I'm there too, now I'm well aware that IM not the one getting an ultrasound, IM not one with the potential situation going on, obviously. IM just the one driving her to the clinic, IM the one staying awake doing copious amounts of research while she sleeps, IM the one trying to be the support. That being said... that is how i choose to use the word "we" because WE are going through this together, so even though SHES the one getting the ultrasound, I feel like I'm getting it too, because im just as anxious (if not more) for the results.
Lets say it is Mr. C.. if shes struggling with whatever it may be.. chemo, surgery, etc, shes the one going through the physical and mental toll of it, However, ill be there too, struggling with frustration of not being able to take it away, to make it better, feeling like I should have or could have done more. As MountainMia said - We are going through 2 different things. They both suck. and being in a relationship means being there for each other no matter what. Shes the one with the potential issue, but she saw that i was anxiety ridden and got me a book.... about anxiety to try and help. In return, I do anything and everything I can to just chill out and be there for her and take things off her plate like dinner, cleaning the house, getting the kids ready for school. Teamwork (WE / US)
Anyways, regardless of the difference of OPINIONs, i dont mean to offend, but as Dres and Serendipity have said, this does not create a welcoming environment for a first timer. No one comes on this forum with the intention to offend. (At least i didnt) by using the wrong pronoun.
This is a great place, and being empathic is what keeps people coming back. Lets just all be nice.
I appreciate all the feedback and comments, and on Tuesday I will update you all again, with hopefully, good news.
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Thankyou Anxious Hubby. I am so sorry for carrying this on way beyond what I felt I should. I felt professionally that I had to make a point. Please reach out to some of us privately. You had only the best of intentions for you and your partner. I really believe all will be well for you and her. If this is any consolation, I believe your thread may make changes happen here in BCO. I give you my word that I will not let this go. I am here for you and your partner.
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Hubby, I'm glad you are here and are sharing your thoughts and fears. Yes, it is the two you who are facing whatever comes. You will face it together and will support each other. Thank for sharing your thoughts and for keeping us updated on your wife's situation. I'll add this thread to my "Favorites" so that I don't miss anything.
Wishing you both the very best,
Carol
My next post was deleted because it was a duplicate. (I always wonder why someone deletes their post.)
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Hubby, I'm glad you are here and are sharing your thoughts and fears. Yes, it is the two you who are facing whatever comes. You will face it together and will support each other. Thank for sharing your thoughts and for keeping us updated on your wife's situation. I'll add this thread to my "Favorites" so that I don't miss anything.
Wishing you both the very best,
Carol
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Thank you, Anxioushubby, and best of luck to both you and your wife with the MRI. Please keep us posted!
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Anxioushubby - wishing nothing but the best positive outcome for your wife and peace of mind for you both. Please keep us posted.
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Anxioushubby, I couldn't have said what you said better myself. I'm so glad you're here, and we are here for you as well. If, by chance, she is diagnosed with cancer, there is a caregiver support Zoom meetup that you might be interested in so you don't feel alone. I am hoping that things are benign and you don't have to join. Big hugs to you and your wife.
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Anxioushubby: Thinking of you and your partner for the MRI. In my thoughts.
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hey there TB90, thank you so much so keeping us in your thoughts. Her appt is in the afternoon and then we go see the oncologist to go over the results. Not going to lie, the anxiety really kicked in today. We both are eager to just get tomorrow over with.
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Anxiousbubby hang in there. Keeping good thoughts for both of you tomorrow no matter what it brings. It is great you are there supporting her and learning as well and it does affect the family as well as the person with the cancer. Keep us posted and remember you can always send messages to anyone you want and ask questions as well and most of us will respond with kindness and give you honest answers.
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thank you so much bcincolorado!
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You will be there for each other and get through this together, no matter the outcome. Still hoping for the best.
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