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Topic: CO2 laser mastectomY

Forum: Recommend Your Resources — Book reviews, favorite web sites, products, articles.

Posted on: Jul 21, 2017 04:16PM

snowday123 wrote:

Hi All,

I'm debating between regular scalpel surgery with top NYC surgeon or CO2 laser with a Dr Ansanelli that no medical persons have any familiarity with. I know he's legit as a friend spoke with an oncologist that sees his patients. The oncologist said his patients seem fine but he'd always go with a top surgeon.

I'm concerned about recurrence and hoping that laser will give me an edge given my Her2+/hormone- status. Had a multi focal tumor - additional risk for recurrence. Animal studies and human studies with other cancers show reduced recurrence. But no recent breast cancer studies because no one is using it...

Thanks in advance for any info!

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Nov 15, 2017 06:50PM - edited Nov 15, 2017 07:26PM by sas-schatzi

Snow, Your statement " As for why laser isn't in use for breast cancer surgeries - Dr Sylvia Formenti, head of radiation oncology at Cornell in NYC, has been trying for a decade to have radiation treatments given to women in a prone position. She has written research papers showing it lessens damage to heart and lungs. Free and easy to learn but not still not standard practice."

Changes in practice of any aspect of medicine/surgery is first driven by science. A break from the status quo of accepted practice which is science based is driven by one person having an idea, and willing to do the research and publication of the idea. That approach may not be accepted by the "community" b/c it is different than what they learned.

Not all docs are idea people. Medical schools teach them to ridgely(sic) adhere to accepted medical/surgical standards. To practice outside of accepted medical/ surgical standards is heresy.

I went to the computer to check spelling of heresy and decided to throw in key words "scientific heresy". Great link.

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/102468/14944004/1320269922797/ScientificHeresy.pdf?token=DLFQpucD0a%2BSeBiBsEgNKrctK88%3D

Back to my espousing. Change within the medical/surgical community is really accomplished by the consumer. A better less costly way. I could do a fancy dancy dissertation on that, but the readers here get that without doing that.

I recognized right away within a short few hours from reading your topic box till I wrote the head slap statement (first page) that the medical/surgical field that we depend on had failed us. Might have been less, but you know there was a very short transition. Dr. Ansanelli and Dr. Formenti are two idea people. They tried to change the system. The system didn't/ doesn't want to change.

I've stated several times my goal is to force the change in the system by gathering information, developing a plan that makes the consumer aware there is a different way. The consumer will then pester the medical/surgical community "We demand change for a safer and better way, or we will take our dollars to those that will do it for less". Back to my simpler statement "A better less costly way".

All of progress in medicine/surgery were by idea people, the system finally accepted what they were doing. Hmmmm. that's good enough for now. The idea people are remembered b/c of the changes they brought about i.e Hippocrates et all.

We can force the change.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 15, 2017 07:28PM sas-schatzi wrote:

Ya know Snow, I just might stay here versus making a new thread. Because I like your questions. Hahaha I get to do espousing.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 15, 2017 07:40PM sas-schatzi wrote:

So, now there are three projects:

1. C02 Laser assisted mastectomy,

2. Laser assisted wound care

3. Breast Radiation therapy in the prone position.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 15, 2017 07:53PM - edited Nov 15, 2017 08:08PM by sas-schatzi

Snow, just by bringing Dr. Fomenti's studies forward to this community, it will have an amazing result. People will be pestering their doc's with the studies This then becomes the RO doc's legal problem and conundrum(puzzle) if they refuse to honor the request.

IF the patient presents the studies AND the RO doesn't follow the patient request AND the patient ends up with lung and heart problems

AND the patient documents well that they asked for the prone position and provided Fomenti's studies in support of their request.

EVEN if the wider RO community didn't accept the approach, the RO is going to have a tough day in court if there is a lung and heart problems post radiation therapy.

NOW we still have to do a study of the literature to see if there is evidence to support the supine positon as being superior to the prone position, but this is a start.


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 15, 2017 07:59PM sas-schatzi wrote:

Snow, your task now is to list all of Fomenti's studies in a singular post. They all have the government listings.

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 16, 2017 04:36PM sas-schatzi wrote:

Snowday, Whoa Nelly, I blew into your room like a tornado full of wind, started postulating and espousing, annnnnnnddddd giving you a task. Not right. Your room.

I did create another thread on the science forum. The work on getting the medical/ surgical community to get the R & D for mastectomy will take months to years. Even if I found the right ear tomorrow. It would be a few years. It's encouraging that it's already being done in dogs b/c dogs and pigs would be where the animal research would start prior to being researched on humans.

Since it's being applied to dogs the veterinary R & D has been done by someone. I'll just have to track them down. Hopefully, the vet school would be in a university setting that also has a medical school. That might be a shot that could move things along faster.

It's going to be exciting, but time consuming. I've done this before and it's lot's of studying and networking.

Thanks Snowday, I enjoyed being here and finding out about your story. Here's the link. Come visit when you can I would love to have you involved. Your a great researcher.

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topics/860203?post_creation=true



Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 16, 2017 10:15PM Italychick wrote:

Dr. Sean Aiken has kept our dog alive for five years using laser surgery for dermal hemangiosarcomas. They pop up, he lasers them off. Just posting in case he knows of research. Maybe you can contact him or his office for research. He has been very insistent on the use of a co2 laser for our dog.

Our dog is now 15 and 1/2 years old, and I think he would already be dead if not for Dr. Aiken.

https://www.vshsd.com/about/veterinarians/surgery/465-dr-sean-aiken


Lumpectomy 1/27/15, TCH chemo, Finished chemo 5/27/15, rest of treatments 2/17/16 Dx IDC
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Nov 16, 2017 10:33PM sas-schatzi wrote:

Thanks Italychick :)


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 17, 2017 07:49AM - edited Nov 17, 2017 08:40AM by sas-schatzi

I'm such a nerd. I woke up thinking about the Harmonic scalpel study of a few days ago. This was 4am. It's bothered me that the study had such positive results from a paper who's writers were from China(2015). and less positive results of two papers whose authors were based in Australia & Italy (both 2016). This was a puzzle.

The 4 am thought "Where are the harmonic scalpels manufactured?" Ducked (like google) " Who manufactures harmonic scalpels?". This brought up Alibaba. I looked at the first 3 pages. All the manufacturers were from China. Approximately twenty two listed that either produced the base unit or supplies for the base unit. After that other manufactures were listed, but I stopped at that point.

https://www.alibaba.com/harmonic-scalpel-suppliers_1.html?spm=a2700.9099375.16.5.56242203ldzAkP

As some recreational reading after that, I came across a study and an article on "Spin" in research papers. It's not encouraging. 8 of 10 papers published can be shown to have some spin on the results. The study listed multiple reasons for this. One being that studies were paid for by the producer of the product or drug. They are suppose to declare this, but the article about the study found that this is not always done.

I'm inclined to say that there was bias in the China study as they have the largest manufactures of harmonic scalpels in the world. It would take a great deal of detective work to uncover if this were true. But it looks awfully suspicious.

I put the "spin" study on the evidence based research thread

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topics/834695?page=1#post_5090782


Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 17, 2017 10:19AM MTwoman wrote:

Thanks for your honesty and diligence, sassy, that is one of my concerns when I hear about groundbreaking technology that "nobody" is using. There are many possibilities, but that unfortunately could be one. Hoping that researchers continue to advance our knowledge and ability to effectively utilize this device.

Dx 12/10/2002, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 12/20/2002 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 12/23/2003 Reconstruction (right): Nipple reconstruction Surgery Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Surgery Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery Mastectomy: Right
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Nov 17, 2017 10:24AM sas-schatzi wrote:

MTwoman THanks. Do you mind if I transfer your post on the list of studies. I'm going to c&P the harmonic studies to the new thread I would appreciate your monitoring and input on the new thread after the initial work up. I got quite a bit done this morning. :)

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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Nov 20, 2017 10:55AM MTwoman wrote:

Not at all. Just trying to add to your list of citations :)

Dx 12/10/2002, DCIS, Right, 1cm, Stage 0, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 12/20/2002 Lumpectomy: Right; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 12/23/2003 Reconstruction (right): Nipple reconstruction Surgery Reconstruction (right): Saline implant Surgery Reconstruction (right): Tissue expander placement Surgery Mastectomy: Right
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Nov 21, 2017 01:55PM snowday123 wrote:

sorry for the radio silence - I so appreciate you taking this stuff on. I haven't mentioned I'm doing chemo and I have five kids, three grandkids and two dogs...so life gets crazy around here. Plus, needy divorced parents and an ancient but still vibrant grandma who expects weekly visits. Thank gd I took a leave from work this year to deal with treatment and my husband enjoys cleaning thekitchen.

I'll click on your link to check out the new thread. Again, thank you!

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Nov 28, 2017 07:11AM sas-schatzi wrote:

Snowday you are a buzzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy lady. But very nice way to be buzy with all the family, not the negative stuff, the nice stuff

Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out shouting "holy crap....what a ride".
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May 14, 2018 12:54PM vcorb wrote:

Hello Snowy,

I have some questions I would like to ask you. Would you be willing to contact me please byemail vcorbin11@hotmail.com I am considering using Dr Ansanelli.

Thanks,

vcorb

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Jul 4, 2018 09:37PM Holding2hope wrote:

Hi, is there any one with stage 4 breast cancer who had a successful case with Dr Ansanelli? my mom has been recently diagnosed and i am hoping this would help her... the docs have advised that usual surgery is not possible anymore and only providing medication to control her situation. Scared

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Jul 5, 2018 03:53PM snowday123 wrote:

I'm so sorry to hear that your mom is in that situation. Stage 4 usually means it's beyond the breast and dr ansanelli only does breast surgery as far as I know. But, call him. I think he'll be very frank with you. Good luck to you and your mom - some people do well for many years at stage 4. Sending you a prayer and many blessings

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Jul 5, 2018 05:32PM - edited Jul 5, 2018 06:23PM by Sara536

I would get a 2nd and 3rd opinion. What does this surgeon mean by the “usual" surgery? Of course surgery can't undo the fact of metastasis but certainly surgery to remove the tumor is possible. Maybe this surgeon means that fancy reconstruction that makes one look as good as new is not possible in this case and that is all he/she is interested in doing. Please connect with a nurse navigator or find a compasionate doctor who will take the time to explain various alternatives that would be available to your mom. You didn't go into detail about the extent of her stage 4. I don't think that stage 4 precludes any surgical attempt at a cosmetically acceptable result. I'm hoping that you are able to find the best possible outcome for her. :)

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Jul 13, 2018 03:57AM Holding2hope wrote:

Thank you dear. i have gotten in touch with him and will be having a call with him. hopefully he can provide some positivity out of the report i have shared with him. Funnily enough, i do not understand why the currentl doc would classify her as stage 4 when there was no PET scan done. however, she has ILC and the lumps are on her chest wall now.. so maybe thats why.... i just hope we still have some time to fight this...

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Jul 13, 2018 04:01AM Holding2hope wrote:

Thank you Sara. indeed, i wasnt with my mom when she went to see the doc. I do agree that the doc did not offer the best probable treatment for her as we were back in our country visiting. he prob assumed that we will go back to the country are currently residing in for more diagnosis and treatment. but the way he put it across was horrible i feel.. and of cos, it shattered my sis and myself :(

my mom is ILC ER/PR positive and HER neg. she is currently on hormone therapy using femera. she has several lumps on both her breast :( and she chose to hide it from us for the past yr or so until we found out by chance. She had cancer about 20 yrs ago so i guess this may be a relapse..

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