Topic: In Favor of Feminism: Share Your Views

Forum: Bonded by Breast Cancer — For those who have met on Breastcancer.org and want to continue growing their cybersibling friendships beyond cancer.

Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 01:13PM - edited Jul 14, 2021 07:48AM by divinemrsm

Posted on: Jul 13, 2021 01:13PM - edited Jul 14, 2021 07:48AM by divinemrsm

divinemrsm wrote:

I'm starting this thread for those of us who support feminism and its beliefs, so we can exchange thoughts, ideas, inspiration, frustrations, personal stories, news stories, famous people stories, memes, book & video recommendations and other matters pertaining to women's equality.

Here's a general definition of feminism: the belief in full social, economic, and political equality and opportunities for all genders. It's about respecting diverse women's experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights.

[[****Edited to add: The above description is taken from several websites and aligns with my personal view of what feminism means to me. You may have other thoughts. What does feminism mean to you? Please feel free to discuss.]]

Only in the last ten years or so have my eyes been open to the patriarchal world we live in. Since then, I'm continually aware of the many women (including from this forum and also myself) who've been conditioned (by society, religion, family tradition, etc.) to prioritize others before themselves; to take on a "less than" persona, to minimize themselves and their contributions. As women, we need to recognize our value individually and collectively, advocate for ourselves and treat ourselves with the same care and loving-kindness with which we treat others.

Please honor the spirit of the thread. It's not for opposing views. The intention is for those of us with similar views on feminism to have a space to gather, share insights and find support. I feel I will have a lot to contribute. Will you join me?


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 13, 2021 02:36PM - edited Jul 13, 2021 03:17PM by divinemrsm

moth, I never said my definition is the only one. You come across as very antagonistic towards me and I'm not sure why. Not sure why you would accuse me of thinking I own the word feminism. I don't think you care for me very much. Do you have anything to add to the thread, or you are just here to argue?

found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 13, 2021 02:45PM betrayal wrote:

DivineMrsM: yes, I will join you and thank you for starting this thread. I am not into male bashing but do not want someone telling me they will give me equal rights nor finding that a qualified woman is overlooked for a position because she might have children. I actually turned down a job offer, with a prestigious medical institution, when they wanted me to sign a statement that if I became pregnant while in their employ, they would have a "job" for me after a maternity leave (without pay) but it most likely not be the one I was currently going to have (in other words most likley a demotion with loss of pay as well). True, this was many moons ago but this still persists in the workplace, just not so blatantly.

Moth: I am not sure of the definition of gender critical rad/fem so perhaps you need to offer one so we can understand your stance? This is not a criticism but a chance for my own growth.

Surgery 2/1/2016 Lumpectomy; Lumpectomy (Left) Surgery 2/1/2016 Lymph node removal Surgery 3/4/2016 Lumpectomy; Lumpectomy (Left) Radiation Therapy 3/31/2016 Whole breast: Breast Hormonal Therapy 6/25/2016 Arimidex (anastrozole) Hormonal Therapy 5/19/2017 Femara (letrozole) Hormonal Therapy 6/16/2020 Aromasin (exemestane)
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Jul 13, 2021 03:22PM exbrnxgrl wrote:

Thanks divine. This is a great discussion topic and I never imagined that you were presenting a singular no variation allowed definition of feminism. One of the worst bits of fallout from the pandemic is that it seems to have many people tense, testy, and quick to react. Your op was a good opening to what I hope will be an ongoing discussion 😘

Dx IDC, Left, 4cm, Stage IV, Grade 1, ER+/PR+, HER2-
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Jul 13, 2021 04:05PM typhoon wrote:

This is a great topic, DivineMrsM! I'll follow with great interest and support. Thank you for starting the thread!

Dx 10/23/2020, IDC, Both breasts, <1, Stage IA, Grade 2, ER+/PR+, HER2-, IHC Surgery 12/1/2020 Lymph node removal (Left): Sentinel; Lymph node removal (Right): Sentinel; Mastectomy (Left): Nipple Sparing; Mastectomy (Right): Nipple Sparing Surgery 12/9/2020 Lymph node removal; Lymph node removal (Left): Sentinel; Lymph node removal (Right): Sentinel; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right); Reconstruction (Left): Silicone implant; Reconstruction (Right): Silicone implant Hormonal Therapy 1/1/2021 Arimidex (anastrozole) Hormonal Therapy 1/14/2021 Arimidex (anastrozole)
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Jul 13, 2021 04:10PM summerangel wrote:

I'll gladly join in as well. I have considered myself a feminist since I hit adulthood basically. The sad thing is that now my younger daughter (I have two daughters) has issues with the term "feminist", just like illimae states earlier in the thread. She objects whenever I say I'm a feminist because in her mind (she's 22) "feminists think they're bettter than men" and I'm not that way so I couldn't be a feminist. I wonder where this notion came from! It makes me sad.

I've been a woman in a very seriously male-dominated field for 25 years and I raised my girls pretty much single-handedly since they were quite young. I have quite a few stories. I find that things have been getting better lately, though, especially in the last 5-10 years. I currently work at a company with a good mix of age groups and the younger men seem to do better with equality than the men my age. I'm generalizing, but it's my personal observation.

Age at dx: 45. Oncotype, left-side tumor: 9. Right side had multifocal IDC and "extensive" LCIS. Isolated tumor cells in 1 right-side node. Dx 3/27/2015, IDC, Left, 2cm, Stage IIA, Grade 1, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 4/27/2015, IDC, Right, 1cm, Grade 1, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 6/1/2015 Lymph node removal; Mastectomy; Mastectomy (Left); Mastectomy (Right) Surgery 6/1/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Tissue Expander; Reconstruction (Right): Tissue Expander Surgery 8/28/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Fat grafting, Silicone implant; Reconstruction (Right): Fat grafting, Silicone implant Surgery 12/4/2015 Reconstruction (Left): Fat grafting, Nipple reconstruction; Reconstruction (Right): Fat grafting, Nipple reconstruction
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Jul 13, 2021 04:19PM divinemrsm wrote:

I have a number of things to say which will take me a bit of time, but right now as a good little feminist wife (Mrs M) it’s time for me to get dinner on the table. Haha, seriously! I will be back in a bit when supper is done. Btw, my husband alway cleans up the kitchen after I cook.


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 13, 2021 04:34PM moth wrote:

wait I'm not being tense or testy? I was responding to the post just above mine where divine said "In fact feminism does not support sexism against either gender.

Feminism works towards equality, not female superiority." That's a statement of opinion about what feminism is.

Divine, honestly I don't dislike you or anything like that. I'm sorry if I'm pooping on your thread; I've been a feminist for decades and I'm not trying to be combative. I'm just pointing out that these are not things all feminists agree about.

Betrayal: radical feminists see the world and society as dominated by patriarchy and seek a fundamental power reordering. Gender critical feminism seeks to abolish gender and focus on sex based oppression. Males and females are biological sexes, not boxes which delineate behaviour and roles. So males and females can act and dress as they like and pursue whatever career or talent they want. Whereas gender is a set of stereotypes which boxes people in. That's sort of the 30 second soundbite version. Generally pro choice, anti-porn, anti- prostitution. Pro recognition of unpaid care, maternity allowances. Opposed to surrogacy. Pro love 😊

This is all in contrast to liberal feminism which from a radfem pov simply capitulated to what men want. From a radfem pov if it's not making men uncomfortable it's not feminism.

Some radfem are misandrist but I'm not. I just think men need to sit down and be quiet for a bit.

I do not think we are anywhere near equality.


I take weekends off

Initial dx at 50. Seriously?? “Sometimes the future changes quickly and completely and we’re left with only the choice of what to do next." blog: Never Tell Me the Odds

Dx 12/2017, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 12/12/2017 Lumpectomy; Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph node removal Chemotherapy 2/14/2018 AC + T (Taxol) Radiation Therapy 8/13/2018 Whole breast: Breast Dx 2/2020, IDC, Left, Stage IV, metastasized to liver/lungs, Grade 3, ER-/PR-, HER2- Chemotherapy 3/18/2020 Taxol (paclitaxel) Immunotherapy 3/19/2020 Tecentriq (atezolizumab) Chemotherapy 11/26/2020 Abraxane (albumin-bound or nab-paclitaxel) Radiation Therapy 12/9/2020 External Hormonal Therapy 12/16/2020 Femara (letrozole) Radiation Therapy 3/3/2021 External Local Metastases 3/3/2021 Radiation therapy: Bone Targeted Therapy 1/1/2022 Trodelvy (sacituzumab govitecan-hziy) Chemotherapy 6/1/2022 Other
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Jul 13, 2021 06:03PM - edited Jul 13, 2021 06:05PM by flashlight

Hi DivineMrsM, I am in favor of feminism and I do love men! It all started for me with the magazine Cosmopolitan. I went to Middlebury college in Vt. to hear Gloria Steinem speak as a young adult. There are men out their that will always be male chauvinist, but I have chosen to be with men that appreciate me. It hasn't always been easy, but I feel things are improving for my daughters. I want my grandson to be well rounded and happy too.

Dx 11/15/2018, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/1 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2- Dx DCIS, Left, <1cm, Stage 0, Grade 1, 0/1 nodes Radiation Therapy Whole breast Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Surgery Lumpectomy: Left
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Jul 13, 2021 07:00PM - edited Jul 13, 2021 07:01PM by divinemrsm

Thanks, everyone, for your input. There's a few points I need to make:

I will be transparent here and tell you that I messaged the Moderators and asked them for some clarity about the direction this thread started going in. They gave great advice:

They suggested that since the definition of feminism I gave was not precisely how everyone interprets the word/ideaology, I could ask:
"What does feminism mean to *you*?"
I think that's a most excellent question and one that in my humanness did not think to ask. The definition I gave was never intended to be some rigid, unquestionable interpretation. That's why I used the phrase "in general". One meaning of the word "general" from Merriam-Webster means "not confined by specialization or careful limitation", and that's why I specifically used the word.







As to the definition I gave "feminism": "the belief in full social, economic, and political equality and opportunities for all genders. It's about respecting diverse women's experiences, identities, knowledge and strengths, and striving to empower all women to realise their full rights."

These are not my own words but a combination of descriptions I gleaned from a couple of different websites. They are as follows:



This one from Britannica:





This one from International Women's Development Agency https://iwda.org.au/learn/what-is-feminism/




Also, when I replied to illimae's post in regards to women, men and feminism, I used this website's explanation about how feminism works towards equality, not female superiority. You may think otherwise, but this is how I view it, and that's why I used their words:



Now it's easy to confront me and say everything I've written about feminism is only my opinion, but I am just a tiny little grain of sand in the universe. Maybe take your argument up with Britannica?

One more thing. I've read a couple of Brené Brown's books and watched her TED talk on video. She likes to say how great it is to be vulnerable and tells some wonderful stories of people who've shown their vulnerabilities and it was somehow positively life changing/life affirming or something for them. Well, I was being very vulnerable when I began this thread on feminism. Never seems to fail, tho, that when I allow myself to be unguarded, I get attacked. I'm not sure why that is, but that's my experience with vulnerability and that's my experience on this thread.

Betrayal, I appreciate your graceful way of asking Moth to offer "her definition of gender critical rad/fem so we can understand your stance. This is not a criticism but a chance for my own growth."

Moth, thanks for your thirty second soundbite (your definition, not mine) of your description of Gender critical feminism. Yes, I read it. Had to read it a few times to understand it, but it was insightful.

To everyone: I plan to edit my original post to include the question "What does feminism mean to you?" I will wait until tomorrow to adjust that, but when I do, I will make note that it is an edit. For now, I will say that the definition of feminism I gave in the OP reflects my opinion of what it means and that it may have different meanings to others.


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Jul 13, 2021 08:20PM illimae wrote:

Divine, I appreciate the clarification and agree that definitions are interpreted differently, which is party why we humans tend to misunderstand things sometimes, different people, different “truths”. I’m interested to see a variety of opinions, I may not always agree but I actually like it when people disagree, not for the drama but the learning experience.

Diagnosed at 41 Stage IV De Novo Dx 11/16/2016, IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone, Grade 3, 3/13 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ Chemotherapy 1/2/2017 Abraxane (albumin-bound or nab-paclitaxel) Targeted Therapy 1/2/2017 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Targeted Therapy 1/2/2017 Perjeta (pertuzumab) Surgery 6/26/2017 Lumpectomy; Lumpectomy (Left); Lymph node removal Radiation Therapy 8/10/2017 Breast, Lymph nodes Dx 10/5/2017, IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IV, metastasized to brain, Grade 3, 3/13 nodes, ER+, HER2+ Radiation Therapy 10/20/2017 External Local Metastases 10/20/2017 Brain Radiation Therapy 4/18/2018 External Local Metastases 4/18/2018 Brain Radiation Therapy 5/23/2019 External Local Metastases 5/23/2019 Brain Surgery 1/22/2020 Radiation Therapy 2/17/2020 External Local Metastases 2/17/2020 Brain Radiation Therapy 7/20/2020 External Local Metastases 7/20/2020 Radiation therapy: Bone Radiation Therapy 12/4/2020 External Local Metastases 12/4/2020 Brain Targeted Therapy Tukysa (tucatinib) Chemotherapy Xeloda (capecitabine) Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone)

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