Anyone on just Taxotere and Cytoxan?
Comments
-
Gail,
So happy to hear you are done! Yee Haa! You get on that beautiful big white horse, and you GO, girl!
I'm a firm believer in worrying only about things over which you have some measure of control. I had the surgery. I did the chemo. I'm doing the aromatase inhibitors. I've made some dietary and activity changes that seem appropriate. I'm open to other preventive strategies as they become known, and if they make sense. But If the beast comes back and grabs me, well, so be it: did all I could do. Gave it my best shot and I am NOT going to stress over it.
In the meantime, it's fun, fun, fun until my daddy takes the T-Bird away.
Regards,
Sandra
0 -
I went for my 4th infusion today and saw my oncologist. He is checking with UCLA which evidently moved their protocol to 6 cycles instead of 4. The clinical trial he was thinking of was the one that was done to compare the effects of TAC vs TC and in both cases, the trials were done for 6 cycles but do not show any trials for 4 cycles. I am checking independently because if there's one thing I've learned, it is that no ONE doctor knows everything and it pays to do independent research. I will check with the 2 other oncologists from whom I sought second opinions. So, I will know more really soon and will keep you posted. I don't want to do another 2 cycles for no good reason, but will if it decreases the odds of a recurrence beyond statistical margins of error.
By the way, I am high on Dex and feeling no SEs at this time.
0 -
In which cities in So. Cal were you interested in locating a Chinese doctor? Dr. Han seems to have some sort of network but it would be easier if you had a city in mind that I could ask him about. By the way, he co-authored a book with 2 other writers and if you are interested, it is titled 'Ancient Herbs, Modern Medicine'.
I placed an update on the 6 vs 4 cycle question a few minutes ago. Please take a look. I would be absolutely thrilled if the 4th infusion received today was my last! I suspect the answer is not so much the protocol for a particular trial but the Stage, Grade, Size, etc. and the oncologist's judgement based on all of those considerations. We will see.
By the way, I bought the Biotene toothpaste and mouthwash. They are very good. I had dry mouth for about a week after my first infusion and it definitely helped. I haven't needed it since the first round, but my husband uses it because he likes the taste of the mouthwash. I like the toothpaste because it is not as spicy as most other ones.
Hope all is well with you.
Be
0 -
Be... I am dashing to take someone to the airport, but I just have to comment that your post above is absolutely not what UCLA is saying/doing -- at least not for me -- and it may be misleading to others. After reading that some women are getting 6 vs. 4, this week I specifically asked about the 6, and was happy to find out that 4 was still their recommendation -- at least for me. Of course, if your personal stats are very different, then perhaps you could get a different opinion on what you need. You can PM me for more complete info -- happy to share what they told me. Deanna
0 -
Congratulations, Gail! I hope your last SEs pass quickly, and you enjoy your horse!
Kathi, ask your onc for an rx for lomotil. It worked much better for me than Immodium (which really didn't work at all for me, either). Good luck!
0 -
Huh!
Thanks Be for updating us and Deanna for chiming in on this issue. I too am wondering 4 vs. 6. My main onc said 4, my 3rd opinion onc said 4, 6 would be frosting, he would evaluate it based on how I tolerated the 4. (2nd opinion onc said TAC, tried to scare me off TC) Guess I need to get a 4th opinion with Dr. Fox at UPenn before I am done with the 4 to find out!!!
I would suspect this depends very much on staging, size of tumor, lymph nodes and so forth. I did think the TAC vs. TC study was 4 not 6, but what do I know, let me go back to that article and read it again!
0 -
P.S.: Chemo brain! The study I am re-reading is TC vs. AC. Sorry!
BTW, I found an absolutely BEAUTIFUL black lacy scarf in back of my closet with my Halloween getups, I'm wearing it as a turban tonight with a red dress and big earrings as a gypsy gal, but it is perfect for everyday wear as well. Woo hoo!
0 -
Okay, here's a blurb from the article I have on my hard drive ~
Reviewed study: "Taxotere / Cyclophosphamide Improves Disease-Free Survival" by S. E. Jones and others, San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium, December 11, 2005, Abstract 40
Study design: In this study, 1,016 women with early-stage breast cancer all had surgery to remove the cancer. Then all the women received chemotherapy:
* Half received four cycles of Taxotere and cyclophosphamide.
* Half received four cycles of Adriamycin and cyclophosphamide.
After chemotherapy, the women had radiation therapy. Women with hormone-receptor-positive breast cancer were given tamoxifen after radiation.
After about five years, the researchers compared the two groups of women to see:
* how long the women lived without the cancer coming back (called "disease-free survival"), and
* how many women were alive (called "overall survival").
Results: Looking at disease-free survival, the researchers found that:
* 86% of the women who received Taxotere and cyclophosphamide had no cancer come back.
* 81% of the women who received Adriamycin and cyclophosphamide had no cancer come back.
This difference was significant, meaning that it was likely due to the Taxotere and not just to chance.
Looking at overall survival, the researchers found that:
* 89% of the women who received Taxotere and cyclophosphamide were alive.
* 88% of the women who received Adriamycin and cyclophosphamide were alive.
This difference was not significant.0 -
Re the TC 4x vs 6x: My 4th and last scheduled treatment was yeasterday. I did, again, ask my onc. about the value of receiving 2 more - I will certainly do it if it adds an iota of extended value. She said "the studies the showed value were done on 4 cycles". Now she is NOT a talker and I have to squeeze all info from her but she has a great reputation and fought for giving me TC over ACT. She didn't say anything else - was rushing for a plane.
I do wish I had the study that shows 6 is better from anyone who has seen it. Since I have stage 2 grade 3 and suspected vascular invasive I'm sure I'm a candidate for the most aggressive treatment and just need to know what's the latest info out.
Thanks for all involved in this discussion - I struggled alone for weeks to decide the treatment drugs I believed were best for me before I found this message board, thank goodness for that!
Sandra - I absolutely believe what you say is true - do all you can and then fun, fun, fun. I'm still in that - "what else can I do" stage. And also the fun, fun, fun part - always!
Love you all,
Gail
0 -
Annie... Yes, the study compared 4 cycles, and also included women with node positive bc. In addition to the stats you cited, TC was deemed preferable over AC because the risk of heart damage w/AC was found to be much greater than previously believed. Also, although small, there is a risk of developing non-treatable leukemia with AC.
I think as much as size and staging, the other key stats that factor into an onc's choice of tx regimen is whether a woman is pre or post menopausal, as well as her hormone receptor status. If post menopausal and hormone positive, aromatese inhibitors are available. Without A.I.'s, younger women might be treated more aggressively. Again, it is such an individual judgment call.
Be, I didn't mean to come on overly strong in my comment above. I valued your earlier question on 4 vs. 6 (also raised by Birdsong) enough to ask my onc at UCLA about it, so know that what your onc told you, while it may apply to your specific dx or perhaps to a subset of women (???), is absolutely not what UCLA is recommending across the board, as I thought your earlier post implied. And I was afraid your post might make women who have had 4 tx's fear they did not get enough.
Gail... I'm doing the happy dance for you!!! We'll have to get together and celebrate soon! Deanna
0 -
Annie, the update of the TC vs AC study showed a significant difference in recurrence and survival at 7 years, with TC coming out ahead. I know of no studies that compare 4 to 6 treatments of TC.
0 -
Deanna,
You are correct. I just got an answer from UCLA and they are still recommending 4 cycles and not 6. My oncologist is in agreement that I should stop at 4 which I got to yesterday, so I am done. Yippee! What a relief. To clarify matters, the clinical trial that my oncologist referred to was a national trial being organized by US Oncology initiated in March 2008, and are for side by side comparisons of TC and TAC. They will be based on 6 cycles but that is not the protocol at UCLA, which is the coordinating hospital on the West Coast. That was why he thought it was already the protocol but in fact it is not. More diligence on his part would have been better, and it is a good thing I was proactive or I might have done another 2 cycles for no clear reason.
As far as the trial goes, I have a physical document but no url; the Study title is 'Phase III Trial of Adjuvant TC vs. TAC in Early Stage HER2- Negative Breast Cancer'. Reference number is USOD #06-090. The document is a description of the upcoming trial and has no results. It seems strange to me that they are not doing 4 cycles of TAC and TC side by side along with the 6 cycle trial comparison but what do I know.
Sorry if I caused more confusion than help. I meant to be helpful by bringing up a question that I did not have an answer to, and was wrestling with the very question you raised. Am I doing enough with 4 cycles? And as of now, the answer appears to be yes.
In any event, I take no offense at your comments because I know we are all on this discussion board to help each other.
Good luck to all of us!
Be
0 -
Hi All,
Wow what a week I've had. I went to the hospital with aterial fibrulation)sp??) meaning my heart was going 160 and out of rhythm. They gave me medicine for 3 days and then did a shock to get it into rhythm. It is not heart disease, but an electrical misfire, so now I take a blocker. It happened after treatment 5, It is a condition that I have had before but not lasting so long now with this outcome.I debated a little about going for 6 but both doctors said they felt it would be alright especially now that I am on the blocker. I have 2 weeks before the finale!! Since there are no studies that are conclusive, unless I have missed something, between 4 and 6, I may as well go to the finish line. It is because I had 2 positive nodes and stage 2. If no nodes, I would just be having 4 treatments. The other issue is that my doc, who prefered The ACT over TC giving TC second choice says it is because there are 3 drugs in ACT and only 2 in TC. That is why she has that preference. She is not comparing AC with TC but ACT with TC . Other than this episode, I have had a fairly smooth ride, especially glad I haven't had numbness the main side effect. I too can see the light at the end of the tunnel and what a pleasant sight it is., Love to all Birdsong
0 -
Be... So, does that mean you're done???
Hope so!!!By the way, UCLA has something called a multidisciplinary clinic for women who have already had some treatment for bc. You basically take them all of your records, and their team of specialists talks to you individually, then meets to discuss your case, and gives you their findings and recommendations (all in one afternoon), which you are free to take back to your team in Santa Barbara. I had started out being treated here in the Palm Desert/Rancho Mirage area, where we have excellent doctors. But I was so impressed with UCLA's team approach, and so comfortable with their docs, that I ended up switching. But even if you just go for the second opinion, it may help you have peace of mind about everything you've done and/or plan to do.
You know, I was talking to my sister who is in radiation oncology research, and she commented that because of this discussion board, we are probably better informed about bc than many docs are! It's really kind of amusing to know that not much is gonna get by us if we stick together!
Deanna
0 -
Birdsong: I am so sorry that you wound up having atrial fib.... not fun. If you have any leg pain or shortness of breath, report it immediately to your doctor because atrial fib can cause blood clots. I'm glad that you are back to your normal rhythm.
Well girls I missed treatment #3. I am still having some heart palpitations (which left after about day 10 the first round) but more worrisome is that I feel short of breath with exertion. I asked my oncologist to order another echocardiogram to see if my ejection fraction (how well the heart is pumping) was the same as the one I had at the beginning of chemo. He refused and suggested I contact a cardiologist. I see one on Monday and will hopefully figure out what is happening.
Have a nice weekend everyone!
Hugs, Katie2u
0 -
Hi everyone, I had thought that I would not need to join a chemo list, but fate has changed her mind.
This will be my second go round with bc and treatments. I found a 1.8cm IDC ER/PR+ HER2 NEU--,node neg tumor back in Dec. 04. I was treated with lumpectopmy, AC x4, and Rads followed by Tamox. In Sept 08 my pcp thought she felt a lump in my "good" breast during my annual exam and sent me in for a mamo and us. There was nothing where my pcp thought she felt something, but there WAS "something". Another tumor .6cm(per radiologist) IDC ER/PR+ HER2NEU--(per core needle biopsy). Onc said no chemo this time, just rads since the tumor was so small. Well, the lumpectomy path says the tumor is actually .8cm(node neg) putting me into the borderline catagory as far as chemo. My onc said that she won't insist that I have chemo, but she would be "much more comfortable" if I had chemo. Her reasons were my age (45), having a second tumor at my young() age, and most importantly the second turmor grew even though I was on tamox. She isn't sure that rads and hormonal treatment are enough. We are also going to do the BRAC test if my insurance will pay for it. Sooooo here I go again. I didn't have much of a problem with chemo last time, so I am hoping for a rerun(good thing I didn't get rid of my head covers though)
. Anybody keep on working through treatments? Last time I had treatments on Thursday, and took the next three or four days off. That seemed to be enough to let me get over the worst of the symptoms so I was able to take minimum time off from work. I am a little worried about having to take off more time this time after reading some of your stories though. I work at a pretty physical job(CNA) and the symptoms seem like they affect the muscles and bones more than the AC treatments did. Oh yeah, my onc only called the chemo meds TC, can I assume she meant Taxotere and not Taxol by the "T"?? I go back in a week to see her and set up my schedule
. I still have about an inch of "Chemo curl" left on the ends of my hair....... Soooo glad to have these lists. They keep me sane.
Mary
0 -
Welcome Mary - so sorry you have to join us
; you will find a lot of support here. Please let me know your schedule when you get it from you onc so that I can include you in the weekly treatment (tx) list. I resent insurance companies holding our dx/tx for ransome! I think that BRAC testing should be standard protocol just like ER/PR/HER2 testing!
I work full time also and typically take off the next four days after tx. Fatigue has been my biggist enemy. Did you have a problem with low WBCs during your AC tx? That would be my concern assuming that you are involved with patient care.
"Chemo curls"
Take care,
Donna
0 -
Regarding tx decisions - there are so many variables and the medical people leave us to decide so much: mastectomy/lumpectomy, chemo/no chemo/what chemo and how often, whole breast rads vs mammosite, and every possible combination thereof. It's a crap shoot, really, and you can just hope you guessed right. I think about 4 tx vs 6 tx all the time and I think about the NCCN guidelines which specify taxotere-carboplatin (not cytoxan) with herceptin for HER2+++ disease and I also wonder if they biopsied the right lymph nodes and because I had an extensive intraductal component (EIC) I wonder why the pathology report didn't specify that after the second lumpectomy there were disease-free ducts in the tissue sample like there should be with EIC....AAAHHHRRRGG! You can drive yourself crazy.
Deanna - you are so right about us knowing more than the docs. My surgeon asked me if I was in a medical field. What does your sister say about Mammosite? I did it, even though there is VERY little long term research on it...but it seems to be a very standard alternative for those who fit the protocol ?
Congrats to Gail - woo hoo! Ride on. Sandra - great advice and attitude.
Kathi, I cannot swallow those potassium pills. I've stopped taking the Lasix because I just can't do it. I also thought about crushing them up in something but I decided to forego the diuretic instead.
Love to all,
Teena
0 -
Mary, welcome to the club. I work through tx - get my chemo on Wed - am ok Thurs and Fri - worst days are Sat-Sun - work (sort of) on Monday - then am fine til the next go round. I don't have a physically demanding job, but do excercise on the same schedule. I'm only 2 tx in - and expect the fatigue will get worse on the next 2 tx...but will do my best. I find for me work is a great distraction from this beast.
I agree that BRCA testing seems like a obvious test for insurance co. to cover since it so dramatically changes the percentages on decisions/results. I suspect that in 5 years it will be standard - but we happen to be a little too early to the game. I read that if I had the brca gene, my chance of getting bc in my other breast was 50% - much different than if I don't have it. I haven't made the final decision, but will probably have a mast on the right side when I get reconstruction as a preventative measure.
It's a beautiful day here and time to take the puppies for a long walk. I have my 3rd tx Wednesday and like to spend a lot of time outdoors prior. Best to all of you.
0 -
Mary...Sorry you have to join us and that you are facing this a second time. I have finished my 3rd TC treatment. As far as working through treatments...the day after I still have a lot of energy(so much that I make it to my morning exercise class) due to the steroids on board and even have energy day 2. It's the 3rd and 4th day that I feel very fatigued and nauseous-I wouldn't want to have to work on these 2 days. After that I feel fine until the next treatment. I agree with Wink that you may also not want to work around patients on days 7-9 either because that is about when your white count may drop. Many of us get either Neupogen or Neulasta shots to boost the white count. I haven't had any SEs with Neulasta but many have complained about bone pain and body aches from it. I hope this has been of some help to you.
L
0 -
Has anyone heard anything from LASHON? Her last post to this or any other thread is on 10/20 and she mentioned she is out on disability now, with no $$ in sight until February. Just wondered if anyone writes to her. She sounded pretty down. Her last chemo is sometime later this month.
0 -
Hi everybody ~ feeling just fine and like myself this last week - before I have to go again! This will be #3 of four treatments so I am feeling good about that. The only uncertainty is because the symptoms of #1 and #2 were so different. #1 was mostly physical, flu-like and so forth, where #2 I came down with a fever and felt mentally disoriented. So what will #3 be? I don't know!!!!!!!!!!!
Be - I have forgotten what the therapeutic # of cycles of TAC has been, perhaps it is six and that is why they must compare six cycles of each combo? One of my four opinions recommended TAC for aggressiveness, but the other three thought TC was a good choice. (Or AC+T, I think that was AC for 4 cycles, then Taxol for 4 cycles, dose dense with Avastin following.) I have forgotten though how many cycles because at the time I wasn't interested in that, just what chemo it should be.
Welcome Katie and Dragonlady! I am sorry you have to be here but welcome to the warmth! I have gotten SO MUCH GREAT ADVICE and ENCOURAGEMENT here. You are in a good place!
Sandra ~ oh my, I hope Lashon is okay. Did you private message her?0 -
I guess Lashon is doing okay now. I did PM her and she said her gramma has been visiting and so she hasn't been on-line much. Still worried about $$$ as her disability won't kick in until Feb, but is doing ok otherwise. She's just so young to be going through something so difficult.
0 -
Slortiz:
Thanks for updating us. I was worried about her too.
Peeps
0 -
Yes, Deanna and everyone else, I AM DONE! I am looking at radiation and Tamoxifen next but the chemo is over. Today is Day 4 of the fourth cycle which for me has the most difficult day in terms of fatigue; tomorrow will likely be a napping day too, and then I start to feel a whole lot better Tuesday.
Here are my summary stats:
Weight loss - 7 pounds,
Wig gain - 6 wigs,
Gratitude - so happy to have a second chance; it could have been much worse than early stage breast cancer
Curiosity - the 2 things that have struck me the most after being told I had breast cancer were that firstly, detection through mammograms was quite ineffective for women with dense breasts, and secondly, that none of the 3 oncologists I saw had any suggestions for a change in lifestyle or diet for me to prevent recurrence.
The first fact was plain infuriating. Why have I been diligently getting mammograms when they were not able to detect my breast cancer for years? My surgeon guessed that my tumours had been there for 5 to 7 years before I finally found them myself. I will be getting MRIs from now on, but how about all the other women who won't be diagnosed early because mammograms are not effective for dense breasts? Our health care system is woefully inadequate in this area.
The second realization that Western medicine has nothing specific to recommend against recurrence of breast cancer beyond general exhortations regarding diet and exercise, has led me to investigate alternative diets and practices in the search for a better course of prevention. I am still searching for answers at this time and so far believe that yoga has helped me, and that Chinese herbs have made a significant difference in managing my side effects during chemo. I am also much more leary about the effects of growth hormones in meat, dairy and eggs. I will keep searching.
Meanwhile, I am truly optimistic about the advances being made in cancer treatment. I am hopeful that the chemo we are getting today will be considered 'barbaric' in a few years because we will be able to eliminate most of the side effects through better targetting of cancer cells. I hope we will see similar gains in prevention as well. Good luck to all!
Be
0 -
Hi Glad:
If you have any info about the Chinese herbs to pass on, please do. I agree with you about no recommendations for diet., I already swam and walked so no problem there but I ran into the same thing with diabetes. I had to swtich drs. I had gone into the Jocelyn Clinic in Boston to get into a pre-diabetes study because my dad had died of a stroke related to diabetes. After blood-testing, they told me I couldn't be in the study because I already HAD diabetes and to hightail it back to my primary care dr., who unbelievably was an endocrinologist and should have been paying attention for several years to my high sugar nos. I went to him and asked for diet recommendations and he said they don't do anything until your numbers are 200. I should have sued the bastard. But I digress. If you have anything helpful, please pass it on. My trust of the medical profession is basically zilch. My sister died of lung cancer 6 yrs. ago, which may have happened anyways but they kept telling her she was too young to have it when she told them that's what she thought she had. The more I read here about how people are treated by their drs., the more angry I am. I have some wonderful caring drs. now but I will always listen to MY body and make my own decisions.
Peeps
0 -
Question - those of you who are continuing to exercise during treatment (I had planned to, but have failed miserably - combination of feeling bad and lack of motivation) - do you think it has made a difference in your SEs or just how you feel in general? Just curious....
tks,
Susan
0 -
Hi all...
Susan-I have exercised throughout my treatment, other than day 3 and 4 when I am too fatigued. On those days I try to at least take a short walk. I feel that it has helped a lot. I exercise with 5 very fun women who, for that hour of time, make me forget that I have cancer. I also do yoga. I don't know if it's the exercise, my friends or a combination of the two that has helped the most with the side effects. I also have been having reiki therapy during chemo which I feel has helped me tremendously.
I agree with Be, that Western medicine is really lacking when it comes to nutritional and spiritual guidance to help boost our immune systems and help prevent breast cancer recurrence. I have been reading numerous cancer nutrition/spiritual healing books which led me to meet with an integrative medicine doctor for guidance on this part of my treatment. He has helped me with supplements and dietary changes. Some of the dietary changes will have to wait until chemo is done because I just can't give up my mac and cheese that first week when nothing else tastes good but for the most part it is all doable.
Be-First of all, CONGRATULATIONS that you are done with chemo. I have one more to go. Like you, I also have dense breasts and my last mammogram didn't pick up any tumor...6 months later I found the tumor. I have told all of my friends to find out if they have dense breasts and if so at least get a digital mammogram(although this didn't find my tumor) or an MRI. I also have been preaching "know your body"...if you know what your normal breasts feel like you are more likely to notice something abnormal.
Question-Has anyone gotten pink eye while going through chemo? I had teary eyes for a few days and now have a nice case of pink eye. I guess I rubbed my eye once too much.
Good luck to all having a treatment this week.
L
0 -
There have been some scientific studies that show that melatonin, vitamin D, and IP6 can each lower your risk of breast cancer or recurrence. My onc told me about IP6 and I since found the study report. I found the other two on my own. Can give refs if anyone is interested.
Congratulations, Be!
Susan, I couldn't exercise much except the 3rd week because I was so sick, and the last two treatments I was weak from anemia and couldn't exercise. But it comes back -- I'm 6 weeks out from my last tx and just split a bunch of firewood and stacked it.
0 -
Susan:
I have continued to exercise as well and I think it makes a huge difference. I swim every other day and walk 50 mins. just about every day. I've only missed a few days, yesterday and today for the swimming but did manage to get a walk in even though today I feel really bad. The last thing the 2nd opinion dr. told me when I left Dana Farber in Boston was to make sure I walk during chemo. So I force myself. It's getting harder and harder to do both with the weather getting so cold. Brrr.
Glad: Forgot to say congratulations on finishing!!
Peeps
0
