Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I am deeply saddened to read this. Margaret was a smart, kind, kick ass lady. She will be greatly missed.
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Margaret was one of our finest advocates; witty, truthful, empathetic and a great listener to us all. Forever missed. ❤️
Here she is earlier this year. Pic from Instagram.
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Thank you for letting us know, TravelText. Margaret (or Moth, as she will forever be in my heart) was a larger than life presence here on the boards. Intense, passionate and so very wise and honest , she was truly one of a kind. She will be missed.
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Traveltext, thank you for posting the picture. I'll miss Margaret/Moth's posts on here. She was such a major contributor with information and compassion and realism, depending on the topic. Peace to all who loved her.
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Yes TravelText, thanks so very much for posting the picture. This is all just so very heartbreaking. My sincere condolences to her family and friends.
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Adding my thanks to TravelText for updating us & posting Moth's picture. Exactly what Trishlya & Alice said. Moth was such an amazing women. Rest in peace.
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Here’s a memorial page just posted for Moth. What a lovely soul she was:
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Oh TravelText - thank you, thank you for posting this marvelous memorial. What a treasure Moth was.
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Traveltext, thank you so much for posting the link to such a wonderful memorial page to our dear moth, aka Margaret. I have already looked through all of the photos of her which fills me with many different emotions as anyone can imagine. I will take some time to collect my thoughts and post on the page’s tribute section. It’s actually a comfort to be able to let her family know what an impact she made on our forum here.
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I looked at the memorial last night, and I can only echo what Divine said. But for those of us who only knew her as Moth the cancer patient, it's lovely to see the pictures showing the other aspects of her life.
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Yes, indeed. Thank you very much, TravelText, for the link to Moth/Margaret/Indefatigable's memorial page. It's a lovely tribute.
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I'm noticing a pattern in my life of women older than me (I'm in my early 60s) who keep trying to push the religion on me. You'd think I was a drug addict on skid row with a a trail of broken relationships and a rap sheet as long as my arm needing to turn my life around or wind up dead.
First it was the line dance teacher who I've mentioned, always with the prayer circles. Then a woman I became friends with last year keeps trying to get me to attend church functions. I have had to start distancing myself from her. And dh and I went on a bus tour to Nashville this summer and our tour guide was making religious comments here and there throughout the trip. I didn't appreciate it but I wasn't going to ruin my vacation by confronting her. But she'd get the bus microphone and start doing almost like a little preaching. Look, we were all senior citizens who don't need reminded to be nice or do good or be grateful, blah blah blah. On the way home from our trip she played God Bless the USA which I pretty much predicted she'd do.
I tend to think these women have been marginalized all their lives and by shoving their religious beliefs on to others, it makes them feel important or purposeful or something; like it’s all they’ve got to cling to. We had a great trip to Music City and thankfully dh shares my sentiments so we had a few private giggles and eye rolls about the tour guide.
I took a break in August from line dance class so I could go to the pool. It was a much needed break that I didn't realize I needed. I don't think I want to return, which surprises me. I was tolerating things that I don't want to tolerate any more.
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Divine - agree about being tired of tolerating things. And you'd think that senior citizens of all people have had a lifetime to make their choices and are happy with the way they live. Not a good group to be "preaching to" -
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I'm kind of glad I seldom go anywhere! I will be at two family events next week, my husband's family annual Labor Day weekend gathering and the funeral for his oldest brother. They're nice people, but two of the brothers are LOUD, which will be cringe-worthy this year since their brother died a few weeks ago. It's a lot of people and all but a few are life-long Catholics, but I don't think they ever talk about it much. The food is always great and they're a fun and nice bunch. The funeral will be religious, of course. I've sat through Catholic masses before and they're pretty easy to ignore. I'm polite and stand when they do if my knees feel cooperative. I sit during the kneeling - I don't kneel for anyone, real or imaginary.
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minustwo, I said practically the same words to dh about senior citizens having already made their life choices! Along that same line, if I wanted to go to church, I know where they are! I could get myself to one any time! I literally look out my back door and see a church on the next street over. I used to walk over there to vote, now the voting precinct has been moved to another church just around the corner. In this little town, there are eight churches of different denominations within a seven block radius of where I live. I could have gotten myself to any one of them by now if I had so chosen to do so, for Pete’s sake.
Alice, my condolences on the passing of your brother in law. Best wishes as you navigate the family dynamics when you see them on Labor Day and at the funeral.
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divine, the people trying to convert or save others always remind me of pyramid scheme recruiters, ugh but no thanks, I’m not buying, lol
My husband has been going to a tiny community church on occasion, I do not. He’s not religious but he and a friend go a teach the group how to use hand radios in case of emergency (many are elderly and live alone). DH has asked twice if I’d consider going (apparently people have asked about me). I told him last time was the last time he’s to mention it but I can’t believe he even brought it up.
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I snagged a new one off FB last night. I spent several hours reporting every religious post as scam or false news. It's astonishing how demented and cult-like so many of them are! It was refreshing to see a handful of posts from like-minded (and clear-minded) folks.
Well, crap. What fresh BCO hell is this when I tried to post a picture?
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Illimae - Interesting, how the "preachy" types remind you of pyramid scheme people. I've often thought of those who are preachy and always want you to come to their church, etc. to be like pushy salespeople who are going to get some big commission for "making the sale" or something. It's just so offensive and uncalled for. People can decide for themselves, and for some it religion is just so deeply personal and not something that's "for sale" or "show".
I really enjoy this thread, even though I don't consider myself an atheist. I think I'm somewhere between "believer" and "agnostic", but in a very unique and eclectic sort of way. I can really understand the sentiments of many who post here on this thread.
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illimae, that's commendable for your husband to help educate others on using radios for safety purposes. That's action taken and a service provided. I hope he doesn't concern himself with the church members who might try to judge him because his wife is a non-church goer.
Threetree, I fall along the agnostic line, too. The atheists here have been gracious to let me participate in this thread, and I appreciate it!
It was while I was reading a book some years ago by yet another woman who'd escape the FDLS cult led by Warren Jeffs when the thought crystalized in my mind how Christianity seemed to be just a milder form of a cult. I will never forget it. The book had a photo of 26 cult women, all sisters, in those long pastel dresses with the weird long hair swooped in the front, and I started thinking how Christian churches try to bend the members into dressing the “right way", saying the right things, etc. I wasn't looking for the patriarchy or ways to condemn the church or anything. Only reading a book that interested me. From that moment, I had to rethink my entire life and what I'd been taught and what I believed—-the process took several years! Since then, yes, I see the cult-like ways of many religions.
One reason people try to get others to go to church is to feel good about themselves. And for bragging rights, “I get so many people to attend church here!"
I am an easy target for them. They think, “oh, nice lady, personable, dresses properly, speaks well, good income." They are not so concerned with asking the brash, outspoken woman at the pool with orange hair, tattoos, flowing caftans and a bunch of piercings to go to their church. They just want someone they think will easily fit in.
No thanks.
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"Not-identified-by-image-magick error". Hm, kinda sounds just like rejecting the promotion of a specific look for the sake of a magic creature who may or may not grant salvation/damnation if you don't appease him just so. How ironic and appropriate.
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Miriandra, should I throw a dead chicken at my phone as I'm posting?
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My son lived with his girlfriend about five years. They went their separate ways at the beginning of the year but parted as friends. She was a big part of my life all that time and I really liked her, still do. Last week, ds told me that she'd recently been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. I feel tremendous sadness at the news. I want to send her a card and went to the Hallmark store today, to the “encouragement" “support" and “thinking of you" section. They had a big selection but as I began reading them, I was dismayed to realize that 50% or more used God and/or prayer in the written sentiment. This eliminated a large portion of the cards for me as the religious references were not something I wanted to buy or send to her. Grrr. I read every card, finally settling on one that would do. I guess God must sell, or they wouldn't have so many religious cards.
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All the god references on cards, tee shirts, journal covers, bumper stickers, you name it, strike me as distastefully and disgustingly performative. Look how Christian I am! I'm a better person than anyone else! 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Back to FB to post Dear Satan prayers on all the spam from JEEEsus pages. It's my new hobby. "Dear Satan 👹, please gather these christian scammers and spammers into your hands and hold them to your fiery 🔥 loving bosom forever and ever. Amen ❤️👹❤️"
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Wrenn - Interesting your comment about how in Canada no one talks about their religious beliefs publicly, like some do here in the US. My mother grew up as an Anglican/Episcopalian in Washington, DC, and that's how it was for her and how she always explained it to me, i.e. religious beliefs are personal and private and not something you broadcast and get "showy" about. She referred to any of the showy "and waving" type people as "Holy Rollers". My father was raised a Catholic in Washington, DC and he too was of the belief that religion is a private matter that is to be both respected and not showy in any way. He never went to church as an adult, but he always maintained the private and respectful notion about religion. They told me once about how when my father was stationed on Whidbey Island during the Korean War, here in the Puget Sound area, they went to hear a church choir, because they liked choral music, had been in a glee club together in their youth, and were looking for some "culture" that they didn't seem to find real prevalent on the west coast - wink. They were then shocked out of their seats when they attended the concert and started to observe how various members of the choir would step out periodically and tell the audience how they'd been "saved", "found Jesus", etc. I believe it is called "giving your testimonial" in some religious groups, and the whole idea is to tell the world all about your religiosity.
My parents never got over it, and off and on while I was growing up they would share that experience and re-tell it with incredulity. I also have childhood friends who were raised as Catholics and they would never engage in any of that sort of behavior and are equally put off by it. I think it is just some "sects" and certain groups that are into all that. Traditional Anglican/Episcopalians down here, and the Catholics I've known throughout my life, are absolutely not into that stuff, but there are some "renegades" it seems in all congregations and denominations these days. Weird.
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Wrenn - I used to have a Canadian friend from up your way (Powell River), and she and I used to enjoy talking about some of the Canadian/American differences. I remember one thing she told me was about the American phrase, "big ole", as in, "I got me a big ole truck" or "We got a big ole turkey for everyone at Thanksgiving". She said no one in Canada would be caught dead saying "big ole". Well, actually that's fairly regional her in the US and many Americans would also not be caught dead saying "big ole". So much is regional and we just never think of that and apply a lot of language and culture to a whole country when we hear it. I'll bet people in places like PE Island and Nova Scotia have different accents and figures of speech, etc. than those in BC. Just some thoughts.
I lost track of that friend years ago, so don't know whatever happened to her. She was real nice.
I too am sad about the queen situation. Everyone knew it would happen, but as always when it really does happen, it hits you. She was queen my whole life. Even though I'm an American, she and Philip were constants in the lives of people of my generation - real "fixtures" if you will. It will be different to have a world without either one of them.
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Wrenn, I love accents in general. They say someone is really from "somewhere". I hear many Canadians speak and I would never know that they weren't Americans except for that "oot and aboot" sort of thing that pops up. I had a friend whose family was from Ottawa and they sounded a bit different than what I hear from BC. My friend's sister would put on an "Ottawa Valley" accent for us from time to time and it was amusing to hear her do that. I also had a social work professor who had been raised in Victoria and she sounded a little different. Many people thought she sounded British. I thought it was "closer" to British than our American accents, but not at all truly "British".
I know what you mean about most Americans all sounding the same. I think travel and TV and radio, etc. have caused a sort of "universal" accent that most people have. My mother and her family had what used to be known as a distinct "DC" accent (similar in Maryland) and she just gradually lost it after years of being on the west coast. I spoke with someone some years back about that accent and they said that that old Washington, DC accent is gone now and that nobody has it. From what I hear on TV from people from that area, it is indeed pretty much gone. It's actually kind of sad. I don't think I want every English speaker to sound the same.
I too am not particularly a royal watcher, but this is really something. I think I would have liked Queen Elizabeth if I'd ever known her. Can't wrap my head around all the "King Charles III is saying ..." that I'm starting to hear and read now. So weird.
Well, all of this has absolutely nothing to do with being an atheist or not, so I'm probably cluttering up this thread with unwanted banter. I suppose there is the connection that the queen was head of the Anglican Church, and apparently a believer - but again, one who would never be showy, tacky, and gauche about whatever her beliefs were.
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I'd have to disagree with you about Catholics, ThreeTree. I'm married to one, and this city is heavily Catholic. They may not be Holy Roller performative (my Mom said the same as yours did!), but they just assume the whole world is Catholic. They don't ask about your neighborhood, but your parish. If you tell them you don't go to church, the look in their eyes is like something shorted out. I had a co-worker try to lecture me for eating meat on a Friday. I reminded her I'm not Catholic, and she got that shorted-out look. Then she got an attitude, like how dare I not be Catholic! Even the less active Catholics are still clueless about anyone else's religion, or lack of it. My son stopped going to church with my husband as soon as he graduated from high school. Several years later, he started attending an Episcopal church, for social reasons and for some of their social issue programs. Hubs and I have gone to their social gatherings, and they're so low-key that their Christmas program for families was completely secular. If not for Covid, it might have been a compromise thing to do. I may be a nontheist, but I'm also a secular Christian, as in, I like the music and SOME of the atmosphere and it's the cultural background for me.
I always thought it was interesting that England has a state religion and the U.S. doesn't, but based on behavior about religion, no one would guess which one was which.
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Alice - Interesting about your experience with Catholics compared to mine. I've had Catholic friends all my life and they've never pushed the religion at all. I also work for a small family business and they are Catholic, but it's only ever mentioned in passing, and then if they have a family funeral, it's held at a Catholic church, but other than that, there's no mention of religion at all.
I do have an extended family member who is what I guess you would call a "conservative Catholic" - won't vote for anyone who isn't anti-abortion, etc.; and even she and her family don't expect others to necessarily be the same. They seem to appreciate it when anybody goes to any church, because they just feel it is important. I've just never had any Catholics that I know "in my face" about it.
Re the fish on Friday: I thought Vatican II did away with that requirement. My mother told me that many Episcopalians also observed the fish on Friday tradition, and as a child we always had fish on Friday and my mother told me that while it was also an Episcopalian thing (as she was), she did it primarily for my non-practicing Catholic father. By the time I was in high school, that family tradition had pretty much vanished and neither one of my parents seemed to care or give it any thought. I think it was my mother who told me that Vatican II got rid of the fish on Friday thing, so your co-worker might not have been up on the latest.
I've attended Episcopalian services off and on and my two daughters used to love going for social reasons, especially. I don't know that either one of them is really deeply religious. They used to enjoy a high school camp they went to every summer, but they did tell me that there were the others there to "watch out for", meaning "evangelical Episcopalians" (a contradiction in terms in my book), aside from the traditional ones. When I did attend services sometimes, I would sometimes meet people who told me they were "recovering Catholics" and that they found the Episcopal Church very close to what they knew as Catholics, but not so severe. I know some call the Episcopal view of doing things "Catholic lite".
Yes, I think many people here sort of presume that we too have a state religion - at least general Christianity. Like you too, I do feel pretty much like a secular Christian, and agree that the culture and the way I was raised is all part of that. It's just part of who I am. I love Christmas music and church music in general. I even like a lot of the ritual of the services. I just don't think my idea of a higher being is quite the same as that of mainstream religion, and I can totally understand why some don't believe at all. It's too bad that a certain group of so called "Christians" have co-opted the term Christian. If I say I am Christian, I mean it in the sense that I am of western European descent and share in that culture and it's traditions. It's my background and a big part of my identity, but I don't mean "Christian" the way so many Bible thumpers and hand waivers do. It's a shame what they've done to the term.
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Wrenn, That's just sick - and so very Catholic. ThreeTree, my lecturing Catholic co-worker was one of those anti-Vatican II, holier than any modern pope types. I'm sure whatever she yelled during sex was in Latin, and then three weeks of daily confession after, if she could find a priest to meet her standards.
There seems to be a tradition in my family of marrying Catholics without converting. Both of Dad's sisters did it, and my maternal grandmother was Catholic, but not my grandfather. She got the boys for Sundays and he got my Mom.
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