Can we have a forum for "older" people with bc?

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  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    Ah, where to start today. Well, the heater is on already. It is getting to the upper 30's here at night and while no frost (usually does come a lot later) Fall marches on. Maybe we will get some Indian summer but not holding my breath.

    Carole, I am glad you are home, and I am with you. There really is no place like home and coming and going and leisure all happening on your own personal desires level. Like you I'm not a great picture taker so were I to go somewhere I'd likely have trouble sharing the adventure. I will appreciate seeing some of what you saw though if you do find something to share.

    Betrayal, I likely did mis-understand what you were saying about the trees. I think you weren't a poster here when we had our furnace upset. We switched from outdoor heat exchanger (commercial type) to indoor furnace. We were given a name by a good friend of ours who was a carpenter. We used this guy thinking he was our best choice. Also, he was one of the few who were confident it could even be done. Turns out he cost us a lot of money, was destructive to some of our wood flooring and once we had gone over the first four months or so never returned our calls when anything happened. We reached a point where the furnace wasn't even working.

    Found a company in a surrounding town and they came out and diagnosed the issue. We explained who had "installed" the furnace and were told this man (who had taught HVAC at the college) had not the proper papers to do the work, insurance? likely not and we had major needs facing us. This company went out of their way and made many, many calls on our behalf. They were down to their last possibility when they found someone to honor our warranty under less than sterling conditions. It still cost us about $850.00 even with some warranty. This company came out to our house and they had a mobile trailer set up to make parts they might not have. They were able to install a new motor and make the appropriate fittings in their mobile workshop. After several weeks of distress, we finally had proper heat and cool capabilities. This for a furnace not yet two and a half yrs. old.

    All to say, that here where we are there are people who are less than sterling in character and references. Sometimes it takes a lot of detective work to find out, and due to the one tree over our house we were just too nervous about a possible mistake. We had Mr. Burr before and while I could still be a mite worried, he hasn't been passed on long so I think his company hopefully will stay just as honorable as they always were. We are though hampered by sloping land and many extra trees so getting any equipment in here that anyone uses is tricky.

    MM, I really do think having some medical people you can feel some comfort for and with really is the best thing rather than being forced by some ill health circumstance when you may end up at the mercy of whomever is around. Still I know what your saying. I've so wanted to be able to QUIT having to see so many Dr.'s and spend so much of my time on personal health issues. It is an encumbrance that feels somewhat stifling at times. That said, since I am a V.A. patient I do have some very good people who in turn do have avenues to investigate some of the outside entities that the V.A. uses. For the most part, this has all worked out fairly well for me. So, I think I do understand. But I just can't shake the idea that while many times it works out, leaving something to the whims of chance has some risks and disadvantages. In the end, it is a personal matter, and I will certainly respect your choices.

    Hoping we all have a good day and saying hi to anyone not posting much. I'm thinking of you.

  • mavericksmom
    mavericksmom Member Posts: 1,275
    edited October 2023

    Betrayal, there is a "best kind of breast cancer" DCIS. LCIS isn't even considered breast cancer, or I would have said that. As for PCP, I have always hated doctors, prefer not to see them, so I am not looking for a new PCP and I don't care about liking the one I have. It isn't as if I have a whole lifetime ahead of me!

    I have no breasts so likely no more issues with breast cancer. Yes, I know there is a risk it could or already did metastasize which is why I will continue to see my BS and MO as long as they tell me to do follow ups. I like my MO, BS not so much, but its not a big deal because I won't see much of him anymore. Soon I will only see him once a year. He is the one who told me not to examine myself, to leave that up to the "experts." I was upset about that at the time, now, I say "fine, one less thing I need to worry about." I hate my "foobs." (fake boobs) so I won't look at myself in the mirror below my neck without clothes on and I won't touch the "imposters,"(foobs) because they are super ugly!

    I do not want any blood work for at least a year, preferably two years or more. My veins are toast! I will explain it to my cardiologist, who is the only one who might object to that, he likes them done every six months.

    I think a lot has to do with my philosophy on life and death. I have done everything in life that I wanted to do, so each day is icing on the cake. I don't fear death but accept it as a natural part of the circle of life. I have done more necropsies on animals from mice to cattle, than I can count, literally thousands. It always amazed me how the body is designed. I just need to take better care of my what goes into my body.

    I am not foolish, but I know firsthand that when I stay as far away from doctors as possible, I feel better in body, mind and spirit.

    As I look at my age in print, which is on my recent after-visit summaries, I realize that at 70, my days are numbered! But then I think, WOW, how lucky to have lived to be 70! Again, I have had a pretty great life, no regrets. However long I live is not up to me anyway. I am thankful for every single day!

  • petite1
    petite1 Member Posts: 2,294

    So much to catch up on.

    (((Karen))) glad your daughter is safe.

    Jackie, I went through all the tree trimming and a few cut down before hurricane season. They had the bucket trucks and a crane. It was stressful, but I survived and they did a good job. It was actually less than I thought it would be. I went with a major company that owns their trucks and equipment vs a small one that had to rent the crane.

    I hate it went smoke detectors go off in the middle of the night. I had one house that did it frequently. My late DH said they detected gas and went off because of the methane I produced. I do miss that silly man and his warped sense of humor.

  • chisandy
    chisandy Member Posts: 11,408
    edited October 2023

    I'm 72. I refuse to think about my days being numbered, because everyone's days are, regardless of their chronological age. Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one. I've made it clear to my weight mgmt. NP that I have made peace with my body, and am trying to find a form of exercise that my defective feet can tolerate without pain (not "discomfort" due to effort, but actual pain due to anatomical malformations & slowly-healing injuries). When I told her about the severe spill I took 2-1/2 weeks ago, she replied "you've fallen too much since 2018—you need to address that." Bullshite. Three of those falls were shoe malfunctions: one from a clog falling off my foot as I climbed stairs, the other two from my walking fast and my body pivoting but the rubber sole of my shoe staying put on the floor. And this most recent one was caused by a defect in the sidewalk: an obstacle the city failed to remedy. (That pole base had a street-sign pole in it as recently as two months ago; in the interim a thief had removed the pole, likely to steal a bike or scooter chained to it: there were bolts missing when I took the photo). Nothing to do with inferior balance!

    Anyway, a year ago she'd mentioned Ozempic in passing, but said my a1c wasn't high enough to warrant insurance covering it. But I just saw a double-board-certified endocrinologist/obesity specialist on TV, who said that insurance's new standard for GLP-1 drugs is either obesity (BMI>30) or overweight (>27) plus a comorbidity such as either diabetes, prediabetes or hypertension. Maybe Medicare Part B or D on their own won't cover it, but I have a private-company (BCBS Choice Plus point-of-service) Medicare supplement. Right now I'm teetering on one side or another of BMI 30, depending on the day I step on the scale; I have hypertension controlled by medication, but the systolic can be high if I am nervous or my ARB hasn't kicked in. My last a1c was 5.6, which is normal but my fasting glucose was 104, which is prediabetic.

    I am simply weary of having to constantly think about what I can and can't eat and when—especially scanning menus and having to ask for substitutions that basically negatively alter the character of the dishes, especially in ethnic restaurants. There are only so many more steakhouses and plain-fish-joints I am willing to take. I want to eat like a normal person, and if that means a normal rather than an objectively slim (<25 BMI) body, so be it. The "food noise" in my head amps up the later in the evening it gets, which leads to near-binges of carby foods close to bedtime. I want to short-circuit that so I can eat more healthfully without having to obsess about it. (My NP has been Type1 and celiac since early childhood—she really can't relate to resenting what she's missing).

    Not just that, but at our age—and with the Damoclean sword of mets dangling overhead—I never know when there will come a time when I not only won't be able to eat what I like but even eat at all. I see so many here and in R/L with feeding tubes, gastroparesis, ulcers, jaw issues, infections, chemo or radiation GI side effects that I know it's less and less unlikely as time goes by. Too many of us are dying, not just of cancer but accidents or violence—life is too short for deprivation.

  • chisandy
    chisandy Member Posts: 11,408
    edited October 2023

    I'm also not much of a picture-taker any longer (one reason I downsized from the ProMax series of iPhone). I recall my days of hauling first an SLR and then an iPad along on foreign tours and obsessing about "getting the shot" keeping me from living in the moment and enjoying the experience—especially when I rarely look at the photos later on. I also don't care for selfies—the angles usually cause unflattering distortions (those selfie-stick-wielding tourists are obnoxious IMHO); and if people don't believe I've been somewhere, attended some event or met someone famous, that's their problem! Memories are enough for me. If my memory fades, I wouldn't recognize the photos anyway,

  • betrayal
    betrayal Member Posts: 3,345

    petite1, I can see shy you miss him with that wry sense of humor. If that were true my DS's French bulldogs would have his constantly chirping since they are the fartiest dogs I have ever seen. I think they are part skunk! How was your trip?

    MM: I hear you about physicians and apologize if I offended you. I do disagree about the best BC to have and still feel that the best to have is none. DCIS can be the precursor for IDC, so not totally harmless. A friend's sister had DCIS dx and after 2 unsuccessful lumpectomies ended up with a mastectomy. There are members here who started at DCIS, thought they were fine and are now MBC. Given my druthers about BC, I would not be here if I had none and as much as I like the company I am not fond of having had BC. The experiences I had during treatment were so negative I'd never wish that on my worse enemy. So we can agree to disagree and find some common ground.

  • chisandy
    chisandy Member Posts: 11,408
    edited October 2023

    Oh, and I had the rug pulled out from under me again: my neuro's followup appt. was unilaterally cancelled because she's left the N.Shore system. I last saw her >6 months ago, and I don't want to see someone new and have to explain everything to them de novo, despite my chart being in my patient portal. I found she's moved to UIHealth, same specialty bldg. as my ocular onc. I have a MyChart patient portal there, too—and it's linked to my N.Shore portal. Seriously considering seeing her there despite the longer drive.

    As to Bob's gambling budget, it's only since the pandemic travel "lockdown" was lifted that he hasn't come home with a net win. I recall one time when in 2017, after returning from Vegas, our paths diverged at Midway—he was heading to his hospital and I to DC to see my sister—and before we kissed goodbye he peeled off twelve Benjamins (half his winnings) and handed them to me. But not just in Vegas but also at the local (Indiana) "boat" casinos have gotten stingier and stingier even as their amenities have gotten glitzier (cause & effect?). He stopped "going to the boats" when the games & machines got "tighter" and they weren't enjoyable enough to warrant the longer drive home. Not even the cheaper gas in IN made the trip worthwhile. The land-based one in Rosemont is in the wrong direction, since he works on the South side; and the new Bally's in River North has no parking.

  • cardplayer
    cardplayer Member Posts: 2,051

    Lots to catch-up on - guess I’ll keep it simple though.

    Betrayal - have a wonderful trip. I hope your DGS enjoys his new shoes.

    Carole - welcome home. Glad you enjoyed your trip.

    Karen - glad DD is safe in N. America for now. I hope that she continues to be safe when she returns.

    Petite - enjoyed the pictures from your trip. Hope you had a good time.

    I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying fall. Cool mornings but still warm afternoons. We’re seeing fall color.

    Thinking of those in harms way and hope for the safe return of the hostages in Israel.

  • puffin2014
    puffin2014 Member Posts: 979

    Our local square dance club has a fundraiser every year at their Oct meeting. Members of our local breast cancer support group are invited to attend their dance, at which they have an auction and a silent auction, and they have us join them in a couple line dances and a couple of the square dances. I've gone every year. I remember the first year I was still bald and wearing scarves. Last night they raised $1249! Thanks to the line dancing class we have in my building I knew both of the line dances where we joined them.

    A group of 85 local people on a tour were stranded in Israel during the recent bombing. I knew 2 of them, one had been one of my nursing students who had gone on to become an anesthetist, and his wife, another nurse. Our ND Governor and senators were able to arrange flights for the entire group to return home after they were able to get over to Jordan.

    Our weather has remained decent, skirting around 32 degrees but no hard frost yet. Hope it stays nice until I have my building's flower beds tidied up for winter.

    Just learned this morning that the manager of my building has been diagnosed with breast cancer and will be having a mastectomy. She's younger, has a 15 year old son. I gave her information on our local support group and this web site.

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    Busy day tomorrow so with all the nice entries thought I'd jump in again. MM, I do understand your thinking pretty much, but I do worry that you may get in a situation of some kind with less choices, but I'm good with what you feel is best just for you.

    I do also understand the feeling of not being afraid to die. I do not fear death either — it is for me just a transition to a new and better body since it will truly be a spiritual one. That said, I'm in no hurry as yet. I have always thought we are gotten ready when life (for whatever reason) becomes too painful and cumbersome for us. Then we can let go and go to our real home. Until that time and not totally understanding all the reasons I am here I feel bound to keep up with certain aspects of life (health being one of those) the best I can. I want to do all I can to fulfill my purpose in being here. Always my idea that we partly come here to meet challenges which will in fact aid us in helping other souls here after we are gone. We are growing our souls for the worthy purpose of having many different experiences while in earth body so we can assist others when we no longer need to be here.

    Anyway, you are just fine. Your feelings and evaluations fit the REAL you just as everyone's does. We are all knowingly or un-knowingly on a path and that path will indicate to us when we most need it.

    Sandy, I am with you on the balance issues. For two or three yrs. after I broke my arm so badly (my first broken bone in life) I heard others (almost always medical personnel speak as though something was wrong with my balance. The thing wrong with my balance is I always had four or five jobs going, tending to a Dh needing multiple surgeries, and way too much to do. And I simply did a lot of my work on a real run almost. Twice in two weeks, I fell — once was in the dark and once at noon. I didn't even count the time in the dark — one of those walking out of a shoe deal and so one freak accident resulting in a bad break in my 70's and all of a sudden, I'm a doddering senior who should likely have a walker. I agreed to a cane and later had a nice long talk to my PCP and told her why I absolutely did NOT have a balance problem. She agreed and I've not heard balance problem and me, mentioned again. Hallelujah.

    Also good for you and the food. I'm very careful these days since salt is a huge issue, but I do not deny myself. I've found ways to make some things work and it isn't always the tastiest, but I can have some of my favorites — like Mac & Cheese. I just use grated Swiss with un-salted butter, not too flamboyant with the milk, and I get my mac and cheese a couple times a month. Same with desserts. I have found that I can have almost anything — my yardstick is three good-sized bites but eaten slowly and mindfully and I've found it to be enough for me. I use potato chips with almost no salt — some have half, and they taste quite good to me.

    Rare occasions for a pick me up (usually when we go to Marion V.A.) we will stop on the way home and get a lg. order of fries each. I put only pepper on them and I've learned to love the flavor combination and do not miss the salt at all. This is something I thought I'd never see happen. I was never big on salt, but some things seemed to call for it a lot more than others with F Fries being one of those things.

    I have an appt. tomorrow to go get a blood draw in prep for seeing PCP the week after. Also, the tree men will be here tomorrow and I'm pretty sure this will mainly be pretty much of an all day job. They won't need us much for anything, and when I've used them before my yard was cleaner when they left than when they got here.

    My blood pressure seems to be behaving well so altogether I'm looking forward to getting my PCP check-up and at the end of that week I will go to Marion and have an echocardiogram. I'm really looking forward to that as my sensation is that maybe my ejection fraction has gotten somewhat better. That was the reason I became a candidate for and did get the ICD (a sort of fancy pacemaker for just one small part of my heart that was a millisecond off on the beat). I hope I get good news. I'll get that report on the 25th. when I see my Cardiologist again.

    Okay, I think I've caught up here in case I don't get much time tomorrow to talk. I will though get the quote in at some point.

    Have a beautiful evening.

  • mavericksmom
    mavericksmom Member Posts: 1,275

    Betrayal, no apologies needed, you did not offend me. I wish you a wonderful, safe, vacation and can't wait to see pictures! Enjoy and remember, you will meet so many people you were meant to cross paths with!

    I am on doctor over-load and will be fine once I get a long break from them. I know I don't have a positive attitude, but the less I see of them the better!

    Sandy, I wanted to hug you for your words on how you feel about food and diet! I read your words several times, thank you, I needed to read those words! I am who I am. I will never be a normal weight person, and that is why I will refuse to get on a scale or tell the doctor my weight anymore. Again, other than for surgery/anesthesia no one needs to know what I weigh! That's why I like my dentist and eye doctors….no scale! As for you having too many falls, I agree with you, your doctor needs to consider why you fell, it just happened that weird things happened more often than usual, you are not prone to falling due to loss of balance!

    Puffin, so cool that you belong to a square dancing group! Awesome that they raised so much money and in such a fun way! I remember being bald too. That is when I asked the question, "what do I use on my head, soap or shampoo?" LOL I opted for J&J's no more tears shampoo since it inevitably ran off my scalp and into my eyes! I wore a wig and sometimes a scarf. I remember going into surgery to have my port taken out and while I insisted on local anesthesia for that, I was upset that I had to take off my head covering and put on a see through surgical covering. I was super self conscience of my bald head. Looking back now, I think, oh my, that was not anything to get upset about.

    My heart still breaks for the people of Israel. I heard Antony Blinken speaking with PM Netanyahu this morning on TV. His speech was powerful. The news featured a beautiful young family with twin six yr old daughters and a four yr old son, all murdered! I will never understand such evil. Another reason it is important to spread kindness whenever we can and appreciate every day!

  • carolehalston
    carolehalston Member Posts: 8,214

    Petite, your comment about your husband's sense of humor brought tears to my eyes. I'm 80 and dh is 84 so I empathize with your loss and did empathize when he passed. I think he would be proud of how you've adapted to your new lifestyle as difficult as it has been and is.

    I smile to myself that some of you consider yourself old at age 70. The 70's were a good decade for me. As were the 50's and 60's.

    Sandy, I share some of your attitudes toward enjoying food but I have reached a number on the scale that demands a STOP response. I am inspired by my younger sister Michelle, who has lost 50 lbs since February when she started her own private eating plan to reduce her weight. She has serious feet issues and decided that carrying less weight was necessary. She's a very religious person and I'm sure she looked to her God for support.

    I'm a WW lifer but don't plan to go back to WW. I plan to increase veggie consumption, also eat more fruit and berries and grains. My main strategy is portion control. I've always exercised and we have a gym membership. I'll get back to the senior classes which are excellent at our YMCA. I don't bake and we don't keep dessert foods on hand. Dessert for us is usually a piece of dark chocolate. Anyway, wish me luck because weight loss at 80 won't be easy. Why is weight gain so fricking easy????

    Hope everyone has something good happen today.

  • carolehalston
    carolehalston Member Posts: 8,214

    I forgot to say that I will not give up my before dinner cocktail. It's something dh and I enjoy. I would feel truly deprived.

  • petite1
    petite1 Member Posts: 2,294

    I woke up in the wee hours to Tornado alarms. Unfortunately little Crystal River had some significant damage. It has not recovered from the hurricane. I feel for those people and their businesses. From what I have heard there aren't reports of injuries. Thankfully.

  • cardplayer
    cardplayer Member Posts: 2,051

    I was diagnosed with idiopathic Gastroparesis 11+ years ago. When my GI handed me one sheet of paper with my new diet, I was shocked. At first, I resisted and continued to get sick and have stomach pain. I lost 20 lbs, missed work due to stomach issues, and felt miserable. I finally decided to get serious about my digestive health. I had my GI refer me to Johns Hopkins motility clinic. I filled out FHLMA paperwork. I started to get serious about my the diet the GI doctor gave me. It took some experimenting on my part, but after a while I figured out what I could and couldn’t eat. Going to Johns Hopkins helped too since they were able to do additional testing and discovered that I also had SIBO. They also enrolled me in a study, so I saw a GI at their motility clinic every 6 months for several years.

    I became very efficient at making two different meals - if I need to. One for me and one for DH. We rarely eat out and when we do, I find restaurants that can accommodate my diet. Traveling is very challenging (getting food), which is why we enjoy going to the beach and staying in a beach rental where we can cook.

    I feel lucky that I’m able to eat the foods that I can eat. With everything that I go through around food, my Gastroparesis is considered mild. Many have it much worse than me, so I feel lucky despite everything. I have medication that I take when my stomach hurts regards of how much care I take.

    My diet is low fiber, low fat. I eat about 16-18 grams of fiber a day. Any more and I have stomach pain. 5-6 small meals a day work best for me.

  • betrayal
    betrayal Member Posts: 3,345

    petite1, glad you are safe from tornado. I want to also second Carole's comments about your adapting to a new lifestyle and doing it with grace and dignity. I realize it has been difficult but applaud you for seeking help when you needed it.

    Sandy, when my PCP asked if I have any falls lately, I mentioned my overreach for a weed and then rolling down the hill. She did mention it in the notes but phrased so it wasn't a true fall. My previous fall was when the dog pulled me off my feet, so is that a balance issue or a very strong dog? I vote for the latter.

    As far as Bob's winning prowess, I am impressed. I just hate to lose money so my budget is tighter but I have monopolied a small wager into a few Benjamins but nothing like Bob's winnings. That was on a Wheel of Fortune game and as soon as I won, I would withdraw my money. Then start over and kept repeating this until I finally lost my initial amount. I still came out way ahead but of course DD found a way to spend some of it.

    Not sure I would want the side effects from Ozempic just to lose some weight since you need to keep increasing the dose to maintain that weight loss. It's also a drug once you stop it, you regain the weight as those who are non-diabetics using it only for weight loss are learning. I'll remain pleasantly plump and hope once I can walk again I can lose some of it.

    Puffin, that fun raiser sounds like fun and a great way to support BC. I missed that you , too, are a nurse. I don't use the past tense because just because I am retired doesn't mean I have lost my profession. I am still licensed and still think like one.

    Illinoislady, it sounds like you have made adjustments to diet as well as lifestyle by recognizing that while we can't do what we did 5 years ago doesn't mean we aren't productive. we have just dialed it back to a more manageable level. A year ago, I built a fire pit from scratch and this year I struggle to walk the 5 miles a day I was doing and have to settle for 2+ on my best days. Liked your philosophy on life and agree that I am not done doing whatever is expected of me yet.

    The situation in Israel is heartbreaking and the stories are eye opening as to the brutality man can inflict on man but not something that is so distant since it is also happening in Ukraine. I have yet to hear of a war initiated by a woman and if any history buffs want to inform me of my error, I am willing to hear it. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lord Acton"

    Chris, where have you been? You are missed.

    Received a call yesterday afternoon that installers would be here between 8 to 9 AM today. So we moved cars, and tarped contents we could not remove. At 9 we received a call that the installer called out sick so they cannot come today. So now we are waiting to make an appointment for when we return. This sets everything back since I have to notify my DB he can't install dry wall and I will need to wait to find a painter. I will not burden DD and DSIL with this since we have to give them final payment and I don't want them to have to make that decision about project.

    Of course, I got up early to make sure I was available by 8 AM but don't mind since I always struggle to sleep on a plane even overnight so perhaps I will nap tonight? Hopefully I can catch some shut eye since tomorrow will be a long day. We fly into Rome, have a layover before catching the plane to Palermo, Sicily. I will crash once we arrive in Palermo and we have the next day free until we meet up with our tour. I will be looking for this one pasta we ate there years ago and that I have not been able to find here. If I find it I will purchase multiple packages to take home. It looked like a plump Cheerio, was served as a casserole and was delicious. Hopefully I can find it.

    I will miss reading here and will have a lot of catching up to do when we return. Have a good day. It is overcast and in the low 50's but not raining so I will take it.

    Hoping for another Phillies win tonight! Go PHILLIES!

  • chisandy
    chisandy Member Posts: 11,408
    edited October 2023

    I feel for the people of both Israel and Gaza. I deplore what the Bibi gov't has been doing as far as the W. Bank settlements, de facto apartheid against the Arabs/Maronite Christians/Druse, and the embargo of Gaza. BUT:

    Israel left Gaza 17 years ago, and told it to self-govern. Its people voted for Hamas, which immediately began amassing weaponry (with the aid of Iran) and using it against Israel. To stop that, Israel began the blockade—but so did Egypt, which borders Gaza. Gaza's "open-air prison" status is on Hamas—which could have provided food, water, medicine, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, etc. Instead it's funnelling weapons through tunnels it dug. Hamas doesn't give a rip about the people of Gaza—it just wants the land, all of the region "from the river to the sea." There never was a geographic country called "Palestine" (so named by Britain when it partitioned the region after WWII). There has never been a unified national entity called "Palestine." And—except for the majority of the region's Jews expelled by the nascent Muslim caliphate in 700 BCE—Jews have been living in Judea & Samaria for millennia.

    It is possible to condemn Hamas' brutal and savage terrorism while simultaneously deploring Israel's actions leading up to (not justifying) the carefully planned Hamas attacks. But they are not the same, nor is Israel more to blame (far from it) nor wrong to defend itself from and take measures to prevent further Hamas atrocities. The nature and scope of both are starkly different. For those approving of Hamas' brutality, to quote Grace Slick: "…logic and proportion have fallen sloppy-dead."

  • cindyny
    cindyny Member Posts: 1,328

    Cardplayer, my niece has Gastroparesis. It seems to be under control, for now.

    Petite, tornado watches always scare me while I’m in FL. Glad you’re safe.

    Gambling, I don’t like to lose more than $100, but if I lose $40-$60 fast I’m done. So obviously not a true gambler. When we’d go to Ponce, PR Hilton I’d stop as soon as I had $90+. My motto was: Room Service Breakfast on them! It was great to have elaborate breakfast trays delivered to eat on the balcony of our room.

    Betrayal, I asked partner who is a history major about women and war. He said there was a Queen, near or at 6’ tall, of Denmark & Sweden- she would invade other countries, not positive but I think lead the invasion. My comment, there’s always one. Enjoy your trip!

    Sandy, I was told (or read) Hamas did provide services of food and medicine. There was no “vote” (as we know votes) for Hamas as there is/was only one party. I know it’s not black and white. Thank you for so much information. I don’t normally follow it much and need to do research to stay informed.

    I was up at 6:30 AM, after sleeping about 3.5 hours, to get to my C4 selective root nerve block. They gave me a Xanax melt away under my tongue - called me a Xanax virgin because I was SO relaxed. That was a goodie I didn’t expect. Procedure was fast; laid on my back, neck roll, safety belted in, head turned to the right, area he needed was only uncovered part. Minimal pressure, never felt pain, the bandaid was on and I was done.

    We got home just before 9 and I went to bed, for another 3.5 hours! We needed the sleep but boy does that throw our day off. I ate breakfast at 12:30. Guessing I’ll have “lunch” soon. I’m not getting fully dressed again, tank top with fleece bottoms is the outfit for this second half of my day. I’m in no pain and hope it stays that way.

    It’s up to 64 with some sun. Looks nice out. Hoping your day turned out good.

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    Give the best you have received from the past to the best that
    you may come to know in the future.  Accept life daily not as a cup
    to be drained but as a chalice to be filled with whatsoever things are
    honest, pure, lovely, and of good report.  Making a living is best
    undertaken as part of the more important business of making a life.
    Every now and again take a good look at something not made with
    hands—a mountain, a star, the turn of a stream.  There will come
    to you wisdom and patience and solace, and above all the assurance
    that you are not alone in the world.

    Sidney Lovett

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    Happy Day to all. I'm definitely really late, but the day went well after something of a negative start. I left for my blood draw before the tree men arrived. Got back home and all the trucks were here but no one around. Turned out an oil line broke and they ran into town to get a replacement. Came back and got the truck repair just in time for lunch.

    I got worried then — didn't see how they could do all the work before dark but they did. Our beautiful but dangerous oak tree is now gone. Five others had many limbs removed — quite a few of them hanging over or very close to our house. We feel much safer than we did, but I do know that odd weather events can come and when you live in the woods there will always be un-kind possibilities. We have hopefully cut way back on them though.

    I'm thoroughly worn out. Can't believe I spent so much time out of doors today, but I was fascinated watching the men work. Also the intricacies of having the skill to maneuver huge trucks in and out of the trees. The Oak required many instances with the crane. Once all the "arms" were off the tree they then used to crane to section the trunk of the tree and load three or four sections of it onto their truck. I'm sure they have a buyer for 'good' wood. I will miss the tree a lot, but it was definitely needed. It gave wonderful shade to our house and deck.

    I hope you all stay fine, no rough storms, and no major heath upsets. I remain sad over Israel and for those who have lost loved ones etc. It all seems horrid, but nothing about war is ever good. My prayer will continue.

  • chisandy
    chisandy Member Posts: 11,408
    edited October 2023

    There is a lot of social media disinformation about the conflict. (And I used the phrase "voted for" advisedly—it was more like Hamas stepped into a void left by an inept administration, and appealed to an impoverished and crowded populace).

    But Hamas dug tunnels in Gaza, not for humanitarian aid supplies but to smuggle in weapons and allow for movement of fighters within the strip…but not allowing civilian noncombatants to take shelter in them when urged to evacuate targeted areas. Speaking of that, I read a long NYT article by David French explaining the concept of international "laws of war" and the differences between those who follow them (e.g., clearly identified uniformed military using miltary weaponry, not attacking FROM civilian facilities, not taking civilian hostages, endeavoring to minimize civilian casualties (while acknowledging the impossibility of avoiding them); vs. those who flout the laws of war: using plainclothed civilians AS attackers, taking hostages and using human shields, basing their operations (attacking FROM) hospitals, schools, mosques, and private homes; and going house to house (and room-to-room) kidnaping, slaughtering & raping civilians (burning some alive, decapitating, slashing as well as shooting, desecrating bodies). Non-regimented civilian belligerants tend to view anyone residing in a nation it wishes to conquer as enemy combatants—regardless of national origin, age, infirmity, Hamas does have an advantage, French says, because "street fighters get to throw the first punch," and any retaliation (including defensive) is portrayed as disproportionate aggression. (Propaganda has always been Hamas' strong suit, a skill set it cultivated since it evolved from Fatah). What Hamas is doing is not even "guerrilla warfare:" it's a cross between Tsarist-era pogroms and the Nazis' terror tactics in the Holocaust. It's akin to hunting human beings for sport: terrorism, period.

    Yes, civilians are being killed on both sides. The difference is that Hamas' objective is to kill civilians. It doesn't consider that as collateral damage, because it is intentional and desired.

    Oh, and Egypt joined the blockade—it will not allow Gazans over its border to take refuge in the Sinai, because it considers Hamas a security threat. (Of course, Hamas doesn't want a huge desert peninsula—it wants all of what is currently—and has been since pre-1967—the Israeli portion of the Levant "from the river to the sea"). Read Hamas' charter: it states in Article 4 that jihad is the only way to peace, and elsewhere the charter calls not for just wiping Israel off the map but killing Jews everywhere.

  • mavericksmom
    mavericksmom Member Posts: 1,275
    edited October 2023

    Betrayal, Bon Voyage! Wondering if this is the pasta you were talking about? I tried to post earlier but I did something wrong.


  • mavericksmom
    mavericksmom Member Posts: 1,275
    edited October 2023

    I had an interesting encounter at the dermatologist's office on Tuesday. As the crowded waiting room disbursed a large man in a red hat came in and sat across from me. Then, I saw a little old lady who had been waiting for her husband struggle to stand up, then hobbled behind her husband, who was also hobbling, both with canes and hunched over, struggle with the door to go out. A man coming in held the doors for them, and I though" wow", so kind of him to do that.

    A few minutes later, the same man said to the man in the red hat, "I like your hat." He said thanks and they went on to bash Biden. Only then did I realize the man was wearing a Trump hat. I looked at them and said I disagree. I told them I was interested to know why they felt the way they did about Trump. I truly was interested. We exchanged some views, then a woman, completely covered except her face, in Jilbab prayer clothes, spoke up to "defend" me. I didn't need defending, I didn't feel threatened or in danger, the men were civil and trying to explain themselves, but the woman was very kind. Then I was called back by the nurse. I really wish I could have had a longer conversation with the men, because I was interested in their views. I believe the kindness the man who opened the door for the elderly couple spoke more about who he was as a person, then the man wearing a red hat. I know we all had more in common than not if only we had more time to share thoughts.

    I have never understood human nature, yet I can't help but try to. I studied Terrorism and Political Violence at Rider University in NJ and I felt honored to be in that class. My professor was a native South African who worked for the IDF for nine years. No textbook but a compilation of articles and his own writings. I would leave his class feeling as if my brain was fried. This was in 2008 when I went back to school. He was amzing and his classes were truly mind blowing. I wish I could get his thoughts on what is happening in Israel now.

    They showed the picture of a bloodied baby on TV. I guess it was supposed to have impact, but it didn't affect me at all, other than to think "poor sweet baby." I think the beautiful picture of the family of five who were found slaughtered affected me more.

    These atrocities are not new. The Khmer Rouge used to throw infants in the air and then stab them with swords as the fell back to earth. The LRA in Africa did horrific things as well. I could go on and on, but one horrific event or hundreds makes no difference. Mankind is misnamed. It is man-unkind!

    There was a great line in the movie Hotel Rwanda where the main character and a reporter are sitting at a bar and the man tells the reporter that the horrors that were happening there would be shown on TV and people in the USA will look at it, say "that is horrible" and go back to their lives unaffected. Sad but true, just as it is with Israel now.

    Life goes on. Humanity or lack thereof is what it is. We all hate what is going on in the world, sometimes in our neighborhoods, but what can we do? We can be kind to others every time the opportunity comes to us. We can support causes of our choice that help fund aide to lessen the pain and suffering of others, regardless of what is causing the suffering, man or disease, we can continue to comment and support each other on BCO and in other organizations. We can appreciate life, smell the flowers, feel the sun on our faces and love our family and friends. Just like new plants growing where a forest burned to the ground, the goodness we do every day allows hope to grow because without hope, all is lost.

    Have a wonderful day everyone, appreciate it and spread some kindness!

  • petite1
    petite1 Member Posts: 2,294

    Good morning. It is a better day, here, than yesterday.

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    When indeed shall we learn that we are all related one to the other, that we are all members ofone body? Until the spirit of love for our fellow people, regardless of race, color or creed, shall fill the world, making real in our lives and our deeds that actuality of human brother and sisterhood--until the great mass of the people shall be filled with the sense of responsibility for each other's welfare, social justice can never be attained. Helen Keller

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802

    MM, I so appreciated and agreed with your thoughts. No matter which side (though Hamas is so ruthless) being at such extremes with each other is not right. Most of us (like the man you spoke of) generally have great sparks of decency and humanity. While difficult, we do need to often try and look past to find more REALness rather than get immersed in what we see or feel as someone's un-worthiness because we don't completely agree with them.

    Doesn't mean there aren't some who are not well and not likely to get well, and we will recognize that as well and behave appropriately. But it is our responsibility to be beacons of light and goodness in our own corners. I am old enough to know I wasn't meant for greatness, but I was and am meant for goodness and with grace hope always to be so.

    Hopefully recovered from yesterday. I did so enjoy the day. We seem to be having some Indian summer type weather and I think some rain and coolness is now on the way. Likely a good thing I spent such a fantastic day outside most of the day.

    The yard (so far just mainly the side yard where the deck sits looks a wee bit strange this morning with the tall oak gone. Hard to believe it became necessary to cut down such a beauty of a tree, but it wasn't so menacing over 21 yrs. ago when we purchased the house. We will adjust as we always do. It turned out to be &1,900.00 but after seeing what these men went through, I do not feel taken at all. In fact, I'm surprised it wasn't a bit more. It was so obvious these men were highly trained and quite skilled. I'm so happy they were able to do the work yesterday. We badly need rain, but those big trucks would never be able to drive over our land if we had much of a rain at all. In fact, they may have put our job ahead of something else knowing the forecast had rain for today. A good rain and we could be forced to wait two or three weeks for our ground to be dry enough again.

    Hope all stay well and as always praying for peace and understanding.

  • karen1956
    karen1956 Member Posts: 4,630

    Chris asked me to let you know that her laptop is in the shop.

    Have a good week-end

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802
    edited October 2023

    Thank you, Karen. Good to know Chris is okay. Hope you are too. I'm sure the current situation is bound to be troubling for you. I know we were all taken by surprise and can only hope a resolution comes soon to ease the situation to something less frightening.

    ETA: A bit of a footnote. Started raining a bit after noon and hasn't let up. It is mostly a gentle slow one which is better than the pour-downs that have trouble soaking in and just tend to run off. Our high water table helps when those kind come, but this is better. Not sure what we will have tomorrow, but hoping for it to be a dryer day, even if only the second half.

  • illinoislady
    illinoislady Member Posts: 39,802
    edited October 2023

    for MM's great entry this morning:

  • cindyny
    cindyny Member Posts: 1,328

    It was a cool morning but sunny. Met a gf for a walk and we got in 2.5 miles before I had to leave for my flu shot. Ran errands after that: ALDIs, post office, and Sherwin Williams. I purchased additional paint for trim and had them shake the other 2 cans left over from last year. Painting is to start next week. Sherwin Williams had 40% off which worked out with the timing of this paint job.

    My walking gf gave me a Nespresso machine with a bunch of pods too. We were saying what we purchased during the Prime day sales, and one of my items were espresso pods. She took a picture and asked if we wanted the machine & pods. We’ll take it to the Florida house and now he’ll be set in both houses for his espresso fix. I don’t drink any coffee. I think we’ve had the discussion before - I love the smell but hate the taste.

    My neck pain is back to its normal self. Paperwork says the injection will start to work in 3-5 days, with full results in 4-6 weeks. Fingers crossed it helps.

    Hoping the weather stays nice for all of us. Enjoy the weekend!