Iodine, thyroid, and breast cancer??
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Spring,
You mean you are taking the salt water even tho you don't have any detox symptoms?
Or you're just peeing more from taking Iodoral and ATP?
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No headache so far today. We will see how the day progresses if I need to do the salt thing again. I am snacking on some nuts with sea salt. LOL Anom, I do take magnesium. My doctor recommended that I increase it because it might help with my estrogen metabolism too, so besides taking some in my mineral multi (400) I take a drop of ionic mg at bedtime(400).
Here is another interesting website I found: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com
Spring you really need to listen to that audio. It explains a lot. Maybe the reason you are not having any symptoms, is that you are not full of bromides. Bromides are in the same family of halogens as is iodine. Just like progestereone tends to balance the effects of estrogens, iodine helps chelate the bad halogens like bromine and chlorine. One of the reasons we may have so much of this toxic bromide in our bodies is that they started using it in breads and baked goods instead of iodine. This correlates to when cancer rates began to rise. They also started using it in swimming pools and spas as a "safer" alternative to chlorine. Now I am afraid to hit the pool!
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OK I will have to listen to the audio. I have no symptoms. I think i just pee a lot because I drink over 100oz a day of fluids, to "rid myself of toxins". Also helps keep me regular, if you know what I mean.
Anom, I am not doing the salt water, just wondered why you all were taking it. I will listen to the thing Vivre sent by Dr. F.
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I'm not up to speed on this topic, but I decided to ask my PCP about it today anyway. Somewhat to my surprise, she was completely against supplementing with any additional iodine if your T3, T4 & TSH are within the normal ranges, which she says are extremely narrow. She said an excess of iodine can cause bone loss.
I know most of you are extremely well read on this subject, so I'm just sharing her comments for whatever they're worth, since she's normally very open minded to integrative therapies. I intend to read up on this a lot more to decide if I still want to do it, but I was surprised at her negativity about it -- which, admittedly, I probably didn't explain all that well, nor could I defend. Deanna
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Deanna-look over the link I posted above stopthethyroidmadness and then tell your onc to look at it. It addresses just what she said. So many doctors have been misinformed about the whole thyroid issue. Very interesting! I do not see how iodine can be associated with bone loss since iodine is suppose to improve progesterone levels, and progesterone protects against osteoporosis.
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Spring-The salt protocol is for those of us who are having a lot of trouble detoxing the bromides. That is what happened to me. I got really tired, like going through rads and I had terrible headaches. It would have worried me except that Dr. Brownstein cited a case study just like mine. His book, "Iodine, why you need and why you can't live without it". explains everything really well. If you can't find it, I can send you one. They are only $15 from my compounding pharmicist. I think you can also get them at his website. It is very easy to understand. In fact,get your onc a copy too! LOL
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I was diagnosed w/ graves disease (hyperthyroidism) 25 years ago after my first child. I had surgery & now 22 years later I am hypothyroid on synthyroid. I hink it is coincidental
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anom...you might be able to answer this question... What is the difference between the iodine loading tests and iodine blood tests? I asked my naturalpath today, and she said the iodine loading tests does not have the studies or research behind it. She thought the iodine blood test is more accurate. What's the difference?
I'm taking a iodine blood test next week, and a test to see if I have auto immune thyroid disease. I've been on armour and my T3 is not there, and my T4 is on the border of low normal. She suggest I get on a low dose of iodine and sees if it corrects my thyroid.
Also, if I order the loading tests now, and I'm presently taking iodine, would the loading tests and blood test be accurate?
My doctor also said the iodine gets rid of fbd half the time. I have read that iodine prevents breast cancer. Thanks, Barry
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Anom and other ladies,
I am hypothyroid like a lot of you. I have been taking synthroid. I started listening to Dr. F on the radio (Vivre's link) and he was saying how women who take tyroid hormone (I assume this includes synthroid) have a greater risk of BC.
Do any of you still take synthroid as well as take the Iodoral?? I go to GP soon for tests and am thinking my synthroid should be lowered at least. I guess we'll see what blood tests show.
Anybody who can help me here, let me know!! This is like puzzle!!
Spring.
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Barry--The blood tests only capture what iodine happens to be in the circulation at the given minute the test is taken. The World Health Organization uses urine testing. The loading test is more sophisticated. It can capture information about how saturated your tissues are. You don't care if the iodine is in your blood-- you want it in the tissues.
Patients with breast disease and breast cancer took up TWICE as much radioactive iodine to their breasts than healthy breasted patients in the 1970s. I think that's in Dr. Brownstein's video. Sick breasts will just suck up iodine in any form.
As far as the 24 hour urine test goes, it doesn't matter if you have been taking iodine for years. Because it measures what your tissue saturation level is. Dr. Flechas wants you to stop any supplement 24 hours before the test. That's your baseline beginning. Any future tests will be measured against that. You need an iodine-literate practitioner because 50% or more don't understand how to interpret the test.
Your doctor says iodine gets rid of firbrocystic breasts 50% of the time? That is inaccurrate. She needs to look up Drs. Ghent and Eskins' studies in the 1990s. They got 70% and they used a much smaller dose of iodine than we do. I have never heard of anybody with fibrocystic breasts that iodine didn't help at higher doses.
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Spring, I take a small amount of Armour Thyroid on and off.
There is a group associated with stopthethyroidmadness.com which is on the warpath about Synthroid.
I tried Synthroid and at the end of a week I was exhausted. How are you feeling on Synthroid?
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Spring, I just realized I didn't respond to your mentioning Dr. Flechas on women who take thyroid hormones having a greater chance of breast cancer. I asked Dr. Flechas about that and looked up the study.
The speculation is that thyroid hormones may block some iodine uptake to the breasts. If you are ever scheduled for a thyroid radioactive uptake study, they make you stop taking thyroid hormones because your thyroid needs be deficient enough to suck up enough radioactive iodine so the radiologist can read the scan.
Taking thyroid hormones without sufficient iodine seems to be the problem.
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JAMA. 1976 Sep 6;236(10):1124-7.
Breast cancer. Relationship to thyroid supplements for hypothyroidism.
Kapdi CC, Wolfe JN.This study was undertaken to determine the relationship between thyroid supplements and breast cancer. The incidence of breast cancer among the patients who received thyroid supplements was 12.13%, while in the control group it was 6.2%. The incidence rate of breast cancer was 10%, 9.42%, and 19.48% among patients who received thyroid supplements for one to five, 5 to 15, and for more than 15 years, respectively. The incidence of breast cancer among nulliparous women who received thyroid supplements was 33%, while in the nulliparous women without thyroid supplements the incidence was only 9.25%. Even in a specific age group, the incidence rate of breast cancer was higher among patients receiving thyroid supplements, when compared to the control patients in the same age group
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Anom, thanks.
Right, I don't have any more "breasts" given recent bilateral Mastectomy, but this has me wondering about synthroid blocking the iodine uptake that I need everywhere else in my body. Where iodine is needed (else I could get cancer in those other places, potentially, according to Dr F).
I have taken Synthroid for, probably, about 10 years and I felt immediatlely better once on it. I don't skip it, ever, so have no idea what it would be like without it after 10 years, but I was exhausted prior to taking it. However, this business about synthroid really has me concerned, and I wonder if now that I am taking Iodine, if I really NEED synthroid any more.
Somewhere on the Iodoral materials (or elsewhere) I was reading that once you start taking Iodine you should work with your doctor about the amount of thyroid supplements you are taking.
I have an appt with my GP in about a week, and at the end of Aug with an Osteopathic Endocrinologist (who is very into supplements, and who I hope will work with me on this Iodine stuff!)
Thanks Anom for the pointer, and Vivre for that radio interview, which I still have to finish. This is really something...
Spring.
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Interesting article on soy and the thyroid:
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/onewoman.html0 -
Hey Anom, have your heard of the iodine causing weight gain? I just upped to 50 and the past couple of days I noticed I have gained 3 pounds! I read on the yahoo thread that someone else said the same thing. Do you know if this is temporary? I have worked really hard to lose weight and if it starts to come back, I will be so upset.
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Vivre,
I've heard weight-gain happen a couple of times with Iodoral and it is always temporary. The thyroid seems to be getting reorganized after years of famine.
You might try skipping a day, here and there (pulse-dosing). This is a neat trick but I have no idea why it helps for a lot of iodine-related bumps in the road. There are several people who have lost weight on Iodoral just because it normalized their metabolisms and they can eat more. Stephanie's before and after pictures are on her web site, I think. Not only did she lose weight, but she looks younger. You can see her face is less puffy also, less squinty.
Al Gore looks like a "before" picture of a hypothyroid guy. His face is puffy and he lost the outer third of his eyebrows. Vivre
I think you should give him some Iodoral next time you two have dinner! 
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I just had an appt with my GP and I told her about the Iodine supplement and she didn't freak out. Also, Anom, thanks for the link to stopthethyroidmadness.com . I read through there and decided to ask my GP about desecrated thyroid instead of Snythroid, also today. She was also fine with trying that!!!
So the plan is to see what happens on today's thyroid test, and then switch me to Armors (?) something like this, descreated thyroid. She said we may have to play around with it for a bit, to get the dosage correct, and I expected and am fine with that.
I also told her about all my supplements, no freak out. I feel delighted she was pro- all these homeopathic things I've been doing, along with exercise, diet, serenity practices, etc.
Anyway, thanks for that pointer. I think i have been ignoring my thyroid all these years and just taking the synthroid blindly. You were right, on that site they were not so hot on synthroid....
Spring.
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Yeah Anom, How did you know Al Bore was one of my favorite dinner guest! LOL I actually would love to have him come the windy city, after the coldest spring ever, and the coldest July 4th in 83 years and have him explain just how all that global warming BS is working out for him. But I will make him buy dinner since he has made a cool 40 mil or so, selling his snake oil to the dimwits who are gullible enough to believe a dumb fat guy. He definitely looks like he has thyroid issues. And what do you think of that English woman who sings, Susan Boyle? She looks like she has a goiter, and her fatique issues sure fit the bill. Maybe one of our English sisters can give her the heads up?
As for me, I seem to be stabilizing. I am trying to follow the the thyroid thread on yahoo, but it is really hard to read. But I am learning a lot from it. Meanwhile, I brought up the topic with my chiro, who is usually pretty open to things. She is the one who helped me get on this path. She said she looked into the whole thyroid issue a couple of years ago, tried the iodine herself but did not see any results and felt there was not enough evidence there. Oh well, you can't convince them all.
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vivre - too funny about Al Bore!!!! During dinner make sure you ask him just how he invented the internet!!!
Now for my problem. I am cold most of the time. If I'm not cold I get chills. I have been taking iodoral for a couple of months. I thought that would help my chills but it has not. Anyone have any ideas. (at least my heart isn't cold)
Patty
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Yeah, what Lorraine asked? And will someone who has them bump up the link to these doctors, how to get the test kit and the book you are all talking about?
Thanks, ~Connie
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Hi Ladies,
I just wanted to report that since starting the Iodoral, my Thyroid numbers got all out of whack again (I am hypothyroid and am on Synthroid).
My TSH is way elevated and my T3 is not right. I am switching to "desecrated thyroid" rather than Synthroid (Yay for my GP who is helping me). And we'll test after I've been on the new stuff for 6 weeks. I am going to try "Nature-Throid" (it looks like Armors is having some reformulation issues and availabilty problems)
Just wanted to mention this in case anybody else out there was on Thyroid medicine. The Iodine can impact so you may want to get rechecked.
Connie, You can get the info on the iodine loading test at http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/ see specifically this index page: http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/iodineindex.html
I just ordered the book by Dr. Brownstein ( you can see a video clip at the index above). I didn't read it yet. But others here have and say it was really great.
Spring.
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Spring,
Your thyroid numbers may jump around like crazy for the first six months or so. The Iodine doctors don't pay attention to that. What happens is conventional docs will see the TSH change on iodine and raise the person's thyroid meds. If you are feeling okay, I wouldn't change a thing. I will try to find the article Dr. Flechas wrote on this exact subject.
Anom
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Fairy,
I think the only real reason for doing the iodine test is to see if you are an absorber or a non absorber. If somebody has had breast cancer or ovarian cysts, there is virtually zero chance they are not iodine deficient.
Now some of the doctors start people on Iodoral and ATP and test them in six months. I understand people are happier starting with the ATP when they start iodine because you get more iodine in faster and you don't have to wait 6 months to find out if you're absorbing or not.
It would be great to see how fast that ovary goes completely down with the Iodoral and progesterone combination!
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Excerpt from http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-10/IOD_10.htm
on thyroid tests.
by Jorge Flechas, MD
I request serum T4 (the main hormone produced by the thyroid), free T3 (the biologically active thyroid hormone at the cellular level) and a thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) level. The T3 level inside the cell correlates very well with the free T3 that is in the serum. Following orthoiodosupplementation, serum T4 and TSH levels usually go down and free T3 stays steady . I have seen TSH sometimes go up rather than down while T4 and free T3 did not change or may have gone up some. This does not mean that the patient was developing hypothyroidism but that the brain was stimulating the body to make more sodium iodide symporters (NIS). The NIS are channels in the cell membrane that transport atoms into a cell as compared to a calcium channel or a sodium channel or a chloride channel where the channel only admits one atom to go through. The NIS transports sodium iodide into cells and has been found in all cell lines tested so far. Thyroid stimulating hormone, prolactin and oxytocin have been found to stimulate the making of NIS . While taking iodide, one may see an elevated TSH but we have to recognize that this is not a bad thing. TSH has many actions outside the thyroid that have been discovered . While taking iodine, the vast majority of patients lose fat and gain muscle weight . Very rarely has weight gain occur. Often a check of the patient's T4, free T3 and TSH shows the T4 to go down, free T3 going down and TSH going up. Iodide is an essential nutrient that is absorbed by all cell lines. Its highest concentration is seen in the thyroid.
The nutritional status of the patient will determine its response to orthoiodosupplementation (3). It is crucial that the thyroid gland has plenty of antioxidants in its cells and many other nutrients. We have found that giving a multivitamin for women with PMS (Optiviteâ ) improves the response to orthoiodosupplementation. One of my patient's is a classic example of the above scenario. She is a CNA who is 5'1". At the time she started taking iodine, she experienced an increase in appetite. Within a short period of time, six to eight weeks she gained about 15 pounds. She then was started on this supplementation. Within six weeks the patient lost 15 pounds with a decrease in her appetite.
Breast tissue has an affinity for iodine . Iodine deficiency causes fibrocystic breast disease (FBD) with nodules, cyst enlargement, pain and scar tissue . FBD can be characterized by a lumpy painful breast, generally in reproductive aged women. Initially, this syndrome occurs in the premenstrual phase of a cycle or involves the whole cycle. These symptoms can also occur in menopausal women on estrogen therapy. In 1928 an autopsy series reported a three percent incidence of FBD, whereas in 1973 an autopsy report quoted an 89% incidence . A review by the American Academy of Pathology gives a minimum incidence for FBD of 50% but suggests that 80% of North American women are afflicted with the syndrome during their reproductive lifetime .
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Anom, what is ATP?? sorry for my ignorance! I am about to throw another spanner in the works here, I am going to try vaginal estriol too!! eeekk!!!
I think my onc is going to disown me, I haven't told him any of this, is that bad??? 0 -
Hi Fairy,
The ATP Cofactors are basically a very specific kind of niacin and plain riboflavin (Vitamins B2 and B3). The docs have been talking about the ATP Cofactors for two years but, honestly, I'm just wrapping my brain around this absorption thing.
Here's the explanation but you don't have to read the whole thing.
http://www.optimox.com/pics/ATP_Cofact.htm
Notice Dr. Abraham is really against supplementing calcium. He thinks it depletes magnesium which is more important.
If your onc disowns you, you can come live with us or create Fairyville and we'll come to you!
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LOL!!! Fairyville! I LIKE it!!
My naturopath was going to start me on niacin if my cholesterol didn't go down, its been high for a while, however I have really good, good cholesterol and my triglycerides are really good too, its just the bad is high, so she thought niacin would work, I am just a little leary of starting things and getting the combos all wrong, I take a lot of supplements, my multi has sooooo much stuff in it, can I do too much?? I read the link, does he mean all calcium including the calcium d glucarate? the naturopath thought this was really important, so once again I am confused! She has me on Metanx which is prescription B's with Zinc. So would it be mute to take the ATP, Iodine AND the calcium d?
Anom, thanks for you time with this and my questions!
L
ox
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p.s can someone PLEASE make me stop going to the "negative nodes, mets, numbers" thread on the IDC board its scaring the crap out of me and I can't stop!! aaaahhhhh!!! I think I have OCD!
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Oh Fairy, I wouldn't worry about your total cholesterol at all unless you are under 35. That is another no evidence territory. Calcium D-Glucarate only means there is a teeny bit of calcium and the rest is, um, d-glucarate. That doesn't count as a calcium supplement. I don't think the progesterone-iodoral-ATP are very complicated.
The only complications I can think of is if you take too much iodine too fast. You might get brain fog or headache. That's the bromide coming out. That's good. Dr. Shevin's salt water protocol should knock that out in 20 minutes.
So, what do you think should be in an iodine pamphlet? I don't know why there isn't any. A bunch of articles, some DVDs and Dr. Brownstein's book. There should be a booklet of the basics. Good idea.
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Hi Fairy,
I started taking ATP cofactor in June, and it's 100 mg and 500 mg of B2 and B3. I think most people with poor absorption are told to take 2 ATP's per day. I had been taking sublingual B complex since last November but the amounts of those two B's weren't anywhere near what the ATP cofactors are providing.
Like everything else I try, I took the B complex in hopes it would get rid of my fatigue. I wasn't even getting the bright yellow pee that usually results from lots of B vitamins, so I don't know if I'm taking crappy supplements or if my body is just sucking up every last bit. Today it was such a flaming yellow I wondered if I took my ATP cofactors twice by mistake. lol hope that's not too much information
Megadoses of vitamin C are another supplement to help increase iodine absorption. I started taking iodoral without taking the loading test first. I finally took my test after 5 months of taking 6 tablets a day. My absorption rate is pitiful. There's a laundry list of companion supplements to take to maximize iodine absorption. ATP cofactors, 3000 mg vitamin C, 400-600 mg magnesium, selenium, zinc .... breastchancerchoices.org has a page with the specific amounts. I'm taking ester C, but I'm having some stomach discomfort after 2000 mg.
Springtime, I just finished reading the iodine book that my library finally tracked down. It was either there or on the iodine list that I've seen reports of TSH at 75 without hypothyroid symptoms during a time of getting iodine levels up to sufficiency. Six months is what I recall as the transition period. It's been sort of frustrating reading it because there's so many stories of patients with iodine deficiency who feel so much better after supplements, and I'm still waiting for my turn 6 months later. I'm feeling some improvements with the addition of ester C last week though, and I suspect my magnesium levels aren't sufficient either.
Oh, and fairy, the other book I just read was on nutritional medicine by Ray Strand, and with labels on supplements, the list pertains to recommended daily allowance. These are minimal amounts defined by the USDA, and optimal levels needed are typically much higher. His main theme is antioxidants and how important they are for battling oxidative stress (free radicals that you hear about all the time). CoQ10 is mentioned in practically every chapter, esp the heart health chapter.
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