Iodine, thyroid, and breast cancer??
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haykat57 and seaotter -
Dr. Brownstein's book reports that Iodine is a profound blood alkalizer.
Anom
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anomdenet, I enjoyed the radio interview with Dr, Flechas. I'm going to e-mail it to my naturalpath. Thanks for all the info you've given on the thyroid and the need for iodine. It's life saving, really.
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Has anyone thought that maybe we don't absorb the iodoral well because it is in pill form? Maybe the Lugol's iodine would be better because it is liquid? What are your thoughts girls???
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Anom-glad you enjoyed the radio broadcast. I hope everyone will listen to it. I have Brownsteins book but the conversation is really great.
SeaOtter-my compounding pharmicist carries the lugols so I asked him about it because I like to use liquid supplements. He said that a lot of people do not like the metallic taste. He compounds his own idodine/iodine supplement that has some added ingredients for metabilism. They are in capsules which are easy to swallow and digest.
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I usually just lurk on this thread (which I find interesting and helpful) but I needed to chime in. There are many many people in the US without heathcare or proper health care. I know a number of these people personally, all of whom are employed - most with multiple jobs, who can not afford heath care. I have health insurance but the coverage is limited and I pay through the nose. (Obscene premium) Anyone in the US who is freelance, and many who are not employed by big companies or need to keep flexible schedules run into this problem.
Vivre- You should check out Germany's system. The citizens pay a percentage of their income and are allowed to pick a plan that suits them. These plans include western and non-western, traditional and nautropathic approaches. Very interesting and those that I know who use it find that it works well and gives them a lot of freedom.
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seaotter and anom, thanks for the tips about making my system more alkaline.
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Vive - Thanks for the heads up on the metallic taste
! Does your pharmacist sell the iodine stuff on the web? How is your absorption with it? Do you have to take the atp cofactors? 0 -
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Have you googled it?
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I just had my phone consult with Dr Fletchas. He wants my symporter function evaluated due to such a low absorption rate. I'm supposed to call tomorrow to get a NIS kit. It involves getting blood drawn which I absolutely despise. I don't know if breastcancerchoices.org will reimburse for the cost of the additional test.
I asked about the ATP cofactor versus B complex supplements. ATP cofactor has 200 mg B-2 and 500 mg B-3. The B complex I've been taking has only 1.7 mg B-2 and 20 mg B-3.
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How about consuming a natural source of iodine such as seaweed? Sometimes science fails to factor in all of the beneficial constituents of a whole food when studying just one part of it. I thought for fun I'd buy a small packet of wakame at a Korean grocery store because it had a recipe for soup on the back in english. Apparently this stuff is a staple food in Japan and Korea, and Korea is the word's largest producer of it. I made the vegetable soup (seaweed, red peppers, cucumber, carrots, radishes, garlic and broth), my wife and I loved it, and now I'm buying the jumbo package of seaweed (actually kelp) because we love it so much. Its a lot like spinach once reconstitute with moisture. I throw this out there because I believe there is potential benefit from mimicking as much of the old asian diet as possible and not just one component of it. From what I've read, these seaweeds contain many nutrients and are superior to a lot of vegetable for iron other minerals and some vitamins.
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I was thinking about seaweed too - the only thing is it is relatively expensive.
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The seaweed I've been using for soup is called Ito- Wakame. It is dried and for some reason the bigger the package you buy, the longer the continous lenght of the dried kelp inside. Makes me think someone wants a 5 foot long kelp leaf for some reason. Anyways, regarding price, a bag that is about 2 1/2 feet long and has enough seaweed for over a months worth of soup is $10.99. They also had these ridiculously tall bags around 5' tall for $25.00. We are also consuming shitake mushrooms that we buy there. They are sliced and dried and a $5.99 bag contains way more shitake than the grocery store price, plus its convenient as its dried and keeps. If you want a reasonable price, I think its best to find an asian food store that caters to the asian community. This stuff is a food staple like rice and is accordingly cheap.
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Althea- There sure is a huge difference between the ATP Cofactors B vitamins an your B complex. I add a B-50 that contains 50 mg of the major B vitamins but it has niacinamide which is the wrong kind of niacin-- and it's ten times less than the ATP formula. So I take both. I'm glad you're getting your blood tested. I think Stephanie from the Yahoo Iodine Group did this test. Did you ask the group about it? Please report back.
Timothy- Over the last 30 years, seaweed has become loaded with contaminants such as arsenic from pesticide run-off into the oceans. Plus you would have to eat seaweed 5 times a day to equal 25 mg Iodoral. Dr. Brownstein had a private lab test seaweeds and I believe nine out of ten were contaminated. It was in the news that a woman here ended up in the emergency room from taking kelp supplements.
I can get seaweed for free but I won't touch the stuff. I already have enough arsenic in me from growing up not eating organic.
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Wakame seaweed is eaten by millions of Koreans and imported largely to Japan, a pretty advanced and well regulated country. Its hard to believe, although possible, that it poses a health risk. I have read that a warning was issued about arsenic in seaweed, but that was not for wakame, nor was there any evidence that the arsenic contained in the seaweed they did have concerns about actually posed any threat to health. I'm not yet ready to give up whole foods because of the risk of contamination in just about everything. I think there are benefits to both concentrated elements like iodine and whole foods that contain nutrients in the natural form we evolved to absorb. So many times science has claimed to have isolated the beneficial vitamin E, C, A, beta carotine, etc from whole foods, then later studied supplementation with the isolated vitamin alone and pronounced it of no added benefit and to go back to the whole food that contains it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything about iodine, but more towards the approach of nutrocueticals or whoever its spelled, and wishing people to know how delicious wakame seaweed is.
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I also, try to get most of my nutrients from nutrient-dense food.
But I draw the line at seaweed. It needs to be studied to see whether the iodine in seaweed chelates out its own arsenic. If that were true, it would be great.
Somebody needs to do that experiment. All you would need to do is consume seaweed and measure the arsenic content of the urine. After taking iodine, Dr. Brownstein reports arsenic and lead excretion in the urine skyrockets.
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I got sidetracked from following up on the additional test today. I'll try to get details tomorrow on what's involved. I'm sort of without a local doctor right now and not prepared financially to ferret out a new primary care physician that I might like.
In the meantime, I'm thinking ATP cofactor is the next thing to try, along with potassium chloride to help bromide move through my system, and vitamin C.
Didn't someone say ATP cofactor is now available at breastcancerchoices.org? Can't find it. Also, Dr Fletchas said to take 3000 mg/day of buffered ester C. Is ester C a brand name or a description of vitamin C that's buffered? I need help selecting that also. Dr F also said we need 400 mg/day of magnesium. I've gone through a container of the Calm formula in the past. I didn't care for it all that much, but I'll suck it up literally if I can get rid of this damn fog in my brain and my life.
I notice breastcancerchoices is offering vitamin C now also. If anyone has comments on how their own experience with supplementing such a high dose of C, I'd like to hear about it. Mostly, though, I'd like to order the cofactor from breastcancerchoices.
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Timothy, I've also heard seaweed crops have arsenic. Even if it didn't, for those of us taking 50 mg/day or more, that would be a whole lot of seaweed to swallow. I do agree with you on the point of getting as much nutritionally as possible from our food. I think the big flaw in that approach these days is the decline of nutritional value in our food due to chemical fertilizers and factory farming. Supplements are flawed in their own way, as you pointed out.
We all have to make our own choices in the with the amount of information we accumulate. I wonder how much of a problem that arsenic would be. I don't recall what levels are being detected or what levels are considered dangerous. I've read that apple seeds contain naturally occurring arsenic, yet I don't notice any ill effects when I don't take the time to remove the apple seeds before I juice them. Frankly, I'm way more concerned about the mercury in those energy efficient light bulbs than I am arsenic, but that's a whole nuther topic right there.
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Althea, have you tried Dr. Shevin's salt water protocol to get rid of brain fog? When I first took iodine I got brain fog and the diluted salt water got rid of the fog in a half hour. Stephanie B. uses that too.
The breastcancerchoices order page is apparently under reconstruction til July. But from the order page I was able to email sally@breastcanceralternatives.org and she sent me the ATP.
I tried their Livon C after seeing a video. I took two packets with no side effects.
Itgave me energy to stave off a 4 o'clock energy drop if I took it at 3 PM. And I noticed after the first week you can take half as much and still get the same effect. Weird, huh?
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It seems there has been some research done on arsenic in commonly sold seaweed products. Take a look at this London study's results: www.row.minvws.nl/upload/row/15b,%2012%20oktober.doc
They analysed some 31 different commonly sold seaweed products, including the brand of Wakame that I am buying (Wang). None of the seaweed products had inorganic arsenic in levels that caused any concern other than a specific type of filamentous seaweed known as Hijiki. Nori, Wakame, Arame and Kombu all had levels of inorganic arsenic that were below the levels of detection. Hijiki has significant levels of inorganic arsenic. It is the only seaweed that they caution against eating daily. As well, I found articles that Tokyo Health and Welfare has also looked into this issue, and only issues a warning against the specific type of seaweed known as Hijiki. This is also the case for Health Canada regarding Hijiki only.
I do agree that you won't be getting 50mg of iodine daily from eating this type of seaweed and it is possible that there could be other pollutants in a product like this farmed in the ocean. Its a real shame we can't trust naturally grown products anymore because of pollution.
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anom, I've just recently picked up on the advice in the iodine group to take in 1/2 to 1 1/2 tsp salt per day to help the bromide move out of our systems. My problem with that is high blood pressure, so Dr F instructed me to get potassium chloride and take 99 mg five times a day. I don't usually do well with taking supplements multiple times daily, but I can at least follow that one part way.
I'm going to order more iodine, some vitamin C and ATP cofactor now.
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I just called the lab to inquire about the NIS kit I'm supposed to get. It's $160, plus I'd need to have blood drawn. I just wrote to breastcancerchoices to ask if there's any possibility of this test being reimbursable also. I just spent nearly that much getting 3 bottles of iodoral and some atp cofactor. I'd have to buy all those things anyway, regardless of what my symporter results are. I still have to get vitamin C and potassium chloride too.
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Althea, thanks for the info on Dr. Flechas saying 400 mg Magnesium, 3000mg of buffered ester C). I take C, but not sure how much Magnesium in my multi. So many things!
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My ATP is enroute. Can't wait to give it a whirl. Even with all the disappointments I've experienced when I try one more new thing to get rid of fatigue, I still feel hopeful that I'm just a few days away from feeling good again.
I received a reply from breastcancerchoices, and as I expected, there's insufficient funding to reimburse for additional tests. So, no NIS test for me at this time. Meanwhile, the iodine list had a post stating symporter deficiency can be repaired with 3 gm of slow release vitamin C. If poor absorption is due to 'organification', the ATP cofactor will help. (This information is attributed to articles written by Dr Abraham)
Spring, what vitamin C do you take? I still don't know if 'ester C' is a brand name or something else, and I don't know if buffered C and slow release C are the same thing. I also don't know what organification is yet. So many things is right.... to be continued
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Althea,
My C is some generic kind you can get at BJ's or Wal-Mart. Maybe I better switch!
Here is what I found online about Ester-CWhat is Ester-C®?
Ester-C® Calcium Ascorbate is a unique and patented form of vitamin C. It is made using a proprietary, water-based manufacturing process which results in a pH neutral product that contains naturally occurring vitamin C metabolites. These metabolites activate the vitamin C molecules making it easier for the body to transport them from cell to cell for numerous health benefits.*
How can Ester-C® help me?
The main benefit of Ester-C® is its quick absorption and 24-hour retention in the immune system.*
This unique ingredient:
1. remains active in the white blood cells for up to 24 hours*
2. offers powerful, highly advanced immune support*
3. is non-acidic, so it's gentle on the digestive tract
4. contains naturally-occurring metabolites for quick absorption and maximum retention
5. is so unique it's patented
6. is backed by science0 -
My oncologist told me to avoid Vitamin C as it has somethig to do with my tumor being Estrogen Positive...She said it is not good for me........But she did say to take a multi vitamin and fish oil omega 3's, and calcium with D3.........
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Althea, good to hear you'll be taking the ATP and C. Maybe you can blitz those symporters into absorbing without having the test. You're taking selenium too, right?
I saw the posting on the Iodine Group about Hakala about C alone. I don't think Hakala is informed enough on iodine. Hakala's a pharmacist. Whereas, Drs. Flechas and Brownstein have had thousands of patients in consultation with Dr. Abraham.
Althea, I'm thinking one of these days you'll get "organifed" and we'll hear you roar!
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Ladies you can buy ester c at walmart. I have been taking it for years. I wonder why hollyann's onc told her no to vit c???? I wonder what the difference between buffered and ester c.
God Bless Us All
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I think I remember that there was some study that vit c caused tumors to grow in smokers, but when one read through the study, the study was flawed. The truth is, most oncs do not have the time or the inclination to follow all the studies, much less read the details. Another problem with these studies is that they all isolate a certain substance, and study only one thing at a time. Supplements are more effective when taken together. For instance we know that calcium is absorbed better with magnesium, so I take any study that isolates one nutrient with a grain of salt. In fact, there have been contradicting studies that megadoses of C kills tumors.
I take Ester c, but only 500, once or twice a day. I heard we cannot absorb more than that at one time. Spring, maybe you can ask Dr.Flechas how to take it?
Did anyone notice really dry eyes after starting iodine? Mine are killing me. And I am feeling tired. Isn't it suppose to have the opposite effect?
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vivre - I have noticed my eyes get dry at the end of the day. I don't feel anymore tired than before! I have noticed I lick my lips a lot since starting the iodoral. Are you taking the apt with the iodoral ( I assume that it what your taking). I have not ordered that yet. What multi-vit do you take. I have been searching for one that doesn't have soy and iron.
God Bless Us All
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Hi All,
I have not noticed the dry eyes. Interesting. (I don't wear contacts)
I am thinking to stick with what I am doing for now, though I did make notes about the Magnesium and the Ester C. When Aug gets here, I will have been doing my Iodoral ATP coFactor routine for 3 months, then I am going to retest my iodine loading.
After that, I am sure Dr. Flechas will tell me what to do! I am so glad he is there as my ONC and my GP had no idea how to advise me on this...
I made an appt with an Osteopathic doctor (end of Aug) who specialized in the endocrine system. I am also hypothyroid, and take synthroid (low dose) but I understand the iodine can influence how much synthroid you need. And I am going to ask her about metabolizing Estrogen. She is very into supplements, which I think is good. We'll see. She won't file insurance, that will be up to me, so I imagne it may be pricey. But if I only need to go a few times, and then very occasionally, I am thinking it may be worth it.
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