Latissimus Dorsi Breast Reconstruction
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and...i went through the SAME life threatening illness as you did
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Hi Folks,
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You know...i have been a part of this group for a while now....sooo supportive of everyone going thru whatever they did......and i couldnt wait to finally get that same support when i went thru my SECOND attempt at reconstruction because the first didnt work. I did not go to that surgery page and crush everyones hope of success because it didnt work for me. Open a new discussion board showing all the awful things about this surgery but please spare those of us coming here for support and love of your negativity. We still have hope.
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And i apologize....i was harsh and my words were disheartening. We have all been thru different paths of the same journey...yours being no less crazy as mine. I do care that you had a rough time with this surgery....im sorry for what i said to you.
I will go to a different forum.....good luck with your cause.0 -
dnadebbs - I too have been a bit frustrated with the negative course this thread has taken, however, I'm going to stick it out because I do believe there are many who frequent this thread looking for support and unfortunately it's currently the only one that is specific to this surgery. Please check back now and then to see if the "tone" has improved.
I'm really pleased that things are going well for you at this point, and would love to hear periodic updates since I'm about 3 months out from this surgery.
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I am nearly 2 years out from my lat flap surgeries. Right side was done 7/11 & left side in 9/11.
I think it is good for us to share individual experiences because it will help those that follow to make more informed decisions.
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honestly...I stay on this thread because I do care. I would never wish my experience with this on anyone - not my worst enemy. I wish someone, anyone had given me the straight talk on this surgery. Would that have changed my mind? probably not because I really trusted my surgeon, but maybe I wouldnt have been so sidelined with all the after effects that I NEVER EVER expected. I truly hope my experience is the exception and not the rule. Will you get a thumbs up from me on this surgery? no, because this is my personal journey and story. However I will censor how I share it.
to those who just had surgery I wish you quick healing and that you are back to normal quickly
for those awaiting surgery good luck and I wish you well
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I started on this thread 2 1/2 years ago before I had my DM with one LD flap, which was my only option if I wanted an implant as I had had radiation on that side. I was too thin for any other procedure. My PS was great and said the only people who really felt the loss of the LD muscle were professional swimmers and those who worked and had their arms over their heads a lot. Well I was a triathlete and do heavy gardening at our property, often using a chainsaw held up but I knew this was my only option. I had no complications with the surgery.
But, two years later, and I still have an ache about 50% of the time at the bottom half of my back scar. And even with months of PT, my right arm has only about half the strength of my left without the LD muscle. Now there is a surgery where they take a glute muscle and with microscopic surgery reattach the arteries and veins for blood flow. If it was available when I had my surgery I would of gone for that....and you get like a butt lift at the same time!
Anyway, I came to this thread to read the pros and cons of the surgery. I discovered for many they had at least two more surgeries afterward and a lot of pain. And for some, the pain never quite went all away.
We have to remember this thread is a discussion on the Pros and Cons of lat dorsi surgery.
Like the main reason to have it done is if you have had radiation or a previous surgery which makes this your only option.
Women having a DM due to the BC gene should be having simple straightforward DM with silicone implants. You can go smaller than your natural size as these silicone babies are shaped a little different so stay perky with great cleavage forever! I am against taking any muscle out of it's normal function if not truly necessary. The lat muscle is the biggest muscle in your body. It's the one that picks up your baby, that basket of wet laundry, or stretches your arm up to hang up clothes on the clothes line or hang pictures (which I am doing now with my husband's help).
I am a very stubborn independent person but this surgery has forced me to change my lifestyle - I can't train for triathlons anymore as I can't do the swimming or the biking - all due to that missing lat muscle.
But I have adjusted. And I still have pain and an ache in the region of the lower end of my back scar even on days when I do nothing!
People come here to be informed, good and bad.
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It will be one year in Sept since my left LD. I have not had any complications. Still getting use to the half of corset feeling and seeing my foob tense up when the back muscle is used. Other than that I feel great.
I am so sorry that many of my BC sisters have had such a hard time with this surgery. However, we must keep in mind that with every single surgery from removing a wisdom tooth to having your back muscle rerouted to the empty place where your breast used to be, is a very personal event that is experienced in a very personal way.
I can't say to anyone that their experience will be like mine. By the same token, someone else can't project their experience on me, nor should they try. All we can do is share the experience. To say its the worse surgery period is so unfair to those who have allowed their experience to change their lives for the better, helping them to fell more confident with the new body that they now have. One can say it was the worse surgery for themselves. But to assume the same experience will be the outcome for someone else could add an unnecessary stress to an already stressful situation.
We need to encourage each other while sharing our stories. Its a delicate balance that must be maintained.
Just my nickel minus 3 pennies.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22031843
A 2011 study about the lat flap.
I went into this surgery scared because I knew that, like all surgeries, there could be complication and/or unforeseen outcomes. (I had a surgery in 2007 that caused a drastic change in how/what/when I eat.) Will finish this later..... something just came up!
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Back -- While I don't regret this surgery, I am still pissed about the cancer. And in no way am experiencing zero issues as a result of this surgery. My side hurts in the morning; every time I reach above my head I feel a slight pull; there is a slight bluge under my arm; the scar on my back although faded is still noticable (at least to me); my back feels weird sometimes. But for me it was the right thing to do. I did not want an implant (but now have a small one for symmetry) and was not a candidate for the DIEP. My surgeon had me read and sign a 12 page document prior to surgery and this document contained information about the post-op possibilities so I nver expected to be back to 100%.
We all have our own experiences (as Momluke wrote) with this surgery. And each year doctors and scientists learn more about our bodies and perfect new procedures. What a long way from the radical mastectomies of the late 1800s. Yes, some places no longer perform the lat dorsi procedure, while there are some doctors for which this is a speciality.
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What am I doing wrong?
I wrote to timtam, and she sent me the password and screenname for the photo forum. I got the validation email, but I can't see pics. I can see posts between people talking about the pics, but can't figure out how to see them.
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all I can suggest is write timtam and ask for help. I never looked at the pictures as I saw enough on the internet with PS's advertisements.
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goldie4040
Timtam (nowheregirl) has started a new Topic on BC.org....."Access To Picture Forum"
I don't know why you cannot see pictures but maybe you can asked her from this topic
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goldie, did you create a username & profile on the picture forum?
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Thanks, ladies...
I finally figured it out. I got in.
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Has anyone on this forum had TEs with LD flaps bilaterally? I had my first fill (100cc) and have had so much discomfort in my back. Prior to this I have had minimal back pain even with the added seroma I have had drained every week or 2. Now with the fills I have so much burning and spasms especially on the left side(cancer side) of my back. My underarm boobs are also very tight and uncomfortable. Nothing really helps and especially with working. Expected some spasms in front with expansion but not so much in my back. Seems like insult to injury, finally feeling better, return to work, from this big surgery and then WHAM! back to being so uncomfortable. Hard to sleep as I can't get comfortable. Have an appt with PS on Monday, planning another fill
not looking forward to it but need to get this done and on to exchange! HELP!0 -
mama- sorry to hear about your discomfort. I am going to say the source of your issues is that as you are being filled, it is stretching the lat muscle (the expander sits underneath it) as it stretches out it will create discomfort in your back because part of the lat is still attached. This is just my theory. I would think that as your muscles stretch this would get better. I would ask for smaller fills - 100 cc is a lot, maybe do 50 at a time
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Mamaxistaz, I had B/L dine and had my first fill two weeks ago, 60 ml's. No back pain just breast pain, did not start till I was on my way home, and lasted an hour or two. I also developed a seroma 50 ml taped off last week. I've been ordered to keep a tight bandage on for a week this is torture to me! Tomorrow will be my next visit. I am not allowed full range of motion yet either
. Hope you're feeling better.0 -
Mama - as rozem said your lat muscle is being stretched but so to is the pec muscle, which is where the expander actually sits so there is y our chest wall, the expander, the pec muscle and then the end of your lat muscle looped there and as rozem again said - it's still attached under your arm so you are feeling two muscles on each boob area being pushed and stretched. I never had fills - went straight to my little bumps, but I sure think 50cc fills sound like plenty to me. I know when I was having my lat done lots of ladies were getting 50 fills, not 100!....and if it still hurts, that just means the muscles are screaming in there! They can always take some out!
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Thanks for all the response and support. I do think it is from the fills and working so much. As the day wears on I get really tired and the back starts to burn and cramp, along with the foobs. Going for my next fill tomorrow and will not let them put in so much this time. But really want to get this done so I can get them out ASAP! Really find these TEs suck! Will keep you updated. Hope all are doing well who have had surgery recently. Tell us how it's going! Virtual hugs only...the real ones hurt too much!
P .S. Everyone wants to hug me or pat me on the back(which they really don't understand at all) , hard to tell them it really doesn't feel good, but I think it makes them feel better, oh brother...
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Rozen, Thank you for giving potential LD candidates the real story about LD flaps. There is NO reason for them to be done today. Just because a few women might have lucked out--the data is clear:the latissimus dorsi muscle is a major muscle in your body that you need. it is an old form of PS. There are MUCH better options available today. I would do anything to reverse time and choose another option, but I can't. LD Reconstruction has left me in chronic pain and has cost me thousands of dollars trying to find some relief. (I listened to a woman on this board who said it was a great option......) She was wrong, at least for me. I regret having chosen lat flaps.
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Bull. There are reasons why LD flaps may be a good option. Sorry if it wasn't a good option for you, scareds, but if you say there is NO reason for them to be done, I will call you out on it.
As with any surgery, there are pros & cons. Weigh your options & make the most informed decision that you can.
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THREE WORDS: OPTIONS......... NEGATIVES....... POSITIVES
There are OPTIONS for women who are going to have breast reconstruction after a mastectomy.
Women who come to this thread, I hope, want to read of our experiences with having the LD Flap surgery.
Some of us will have POSITIVE outcomes from the surgery.
Others will have NEGATIVE outcomes.
Here is where women can think and decide for themselves what the potential positives and negatives are of the LD Flap surgery and decide, with their Plastic Surgeon, if it is the right procedure for them.
For me, it was a good option as I didn't have enough of a tummy or a butt for those two procedures and I sure needed something as I had radiation, which destroys the integrity of any muscle or skin left. I had a LD flap done but I do wish I still had that LD muscle where it was. The POSITIVE is I had a successful surgery without complications and only a hour surgery 6 months later to put the final implant in after the LD muscle had atrophied, which is quite standard and normal. Another POSITIVE is I have two new breasts I like. The NEGATIVE is with working on our property and gardening, I have lost over half of the strength on the arm without the LD muscle to help it along, and if I try to do in a day as much as I used to, my whole back hurts.
Truthfully, sometimes my lower back just hurts and also I get an ache along the lower half of my lat scar with doing nothing!
So, for me, even with the negatives I deal with now, choosing the LD Flap was the right decision., If I had to do it again, which I don't because I had a double mastectomy, I would.
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lets talk about options....i am going to speak about options for reconstruction for those who have had rads, as this seems to be the most common reason to do the lat flap (and other skin healing issues)
1. do nothing...many women have an expander/rads/then get an implant. It doesnt always fail. Yes sometimes it does but I have met many women (many on this board) who have had rads to their implant/expander and are fine.
2. Stem cell rescue - I met someone recently who had this done here in Toronto and I am sure they are doing them in the US. She had a mast/rads. 6 mos later they did 2 procedures whereby they took fat from her abdomen (like lipo and you need very little - she was very thin) they process it and then inject into the rads breast. The stem cells help re-build the radiated tissue. This girl is on the expander part and is doing fine so far. At the hospital where she is having it done they said that none of the women going through the process have rejected the implant
3. if you have access to someone who does micro-surgery and you are told you dont have enough tissue for diep etc then think about doing only the radiated breast. Often times women are told they dont have enough but that is usually for 2 breasts. Most have enough for one small breast - they can even augment with a small implant aswell. You can do an implant on the prophy breast (for those having a double msx). Yes, they wont look perfect but many recons dont and im sure in a bra/clothing you wont even notice
just some options have have learned since my surgery that may help others make a more informed decision
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i think more than a few women 'lucked out' - the surgery has many, many happy survivors. And many, many who would do it again. Yes, I know that there are also many who have had horrible experiences. For me - the surgery at this point (and I admit that in the future I might feel differently) worked and I would do it again. And thre are reasons why this surgery should be done and is done. It was not the only option for me but the best option for me.
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I've learned more about Lat Flap reconstruction from this board than I did before my surgery a week ago. Wish I'd come here first. While I may have made the same decision,given the mess the radiation made of my existing reconstruction (gross assymetry, pain) at least I would have known what questions to ask the PS.
Are there exercises to strengthen the back after recovery from the surgery? Some of you mention ongoing back pain. Can PT and exercise help alleviate that? Just trying to reset my expectations, here.
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Just my two cents as someone who had UMX with LD recon, straight to implant no TE. My UMX was in 10/11. As I did last summer, this last weekend I was at the lake kayaking. I also workout with weights twice a week. I just want to say that for me, the DIEP and other recon was not an option. I had prior ab surgery that prevented me. I came away with my UMX and going back to work with NO ONE knowing anything had changed. I am greatful for this. I know others have other experiences. For me it went well and I feel blessed. None of this BC crap is a cake walk. I hope everyone eventually gets some sort of satisfaction in their decision and situation.
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I got through my fill today for 50cc in the foobs. We are finally done with fills! Yea, now we wait for all to stretch and move on to the exchange, late September/early October. What a long process but on the home stretch, (no pun intended). Asked about back spasms related to the fills. PS agrees it is the LD muscle and pec muscle stretching and causing spasms. More muscle relaxants for sleep at least, hope I can tolerate during the day with over the counter meds at work.
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ILC2003 - yes there are things you can do to help yourself help your body to adjust to these changes. My PS had me starting with a PT a 6 weeks just for flexibility and stretching, which is was amazing how restricted in range o fmotion I was before and even after the first visit I noticed a difference. Each visit, the PT would demonstrate two new stretches for me to do once daily at home. I saw her weekly. PS said at week 12 to start strengthing exercises and I did with PT for 6 weeks, and again she gave me things to do at home but reminded me every day to do at least two of the stretching exercises. Before I started PT, I couldn't get my right arm (the LD side) up to put my hair in a ponytail and even washing my hair was tough. My left arm was better but not great. Well, the PT stretches and exercises did help me a lot.
Sure I still have some pain, especially along the lower half of my lat scar on my back, and I don't have to do anything to get it. Too much heavy lifting and my right arm (lat side) aches, my pec aches and my lower back as they are all trying to make up for what the lat muscle can't do. Where the lat muscle is still attached under my arm sometimes at times of overdoing will be painful to touch, and so is my upper chest on that side. That I attribute to the rads, as my oncologist said it really affects the ribs under the breast area.
So yes, stretching first and strengthening 2nd. It should help, maybe not take away all your discomfort but be better.
I am beginning to think the size of implants also play a significant part in the aches and pains after a LD flap, as if you have a silicone implant, it may just be putting a lot of pressure on your pec muscle, the LD muscle and affecting your back - like what happens with women with naturally big breasts. Implants don't have to be the size your natural breast was as with the correct shape and width of the implant for your body size, you can still have boobs and cleavage.
As I didn't want to go the fill route, and had had a breast reduction years ago, I wanted small boobs and I opted for implants way smaller than I was - 225cc and I'm 5' 3' and 110 pounds. Well, without a bra I have perky breasts and lovely clevage, or so my husband says and I do feel good about how I look.
DO NOT LET A PLASTIC SURGEON TALK YOU INTO BIGGER IMPLANTS THAN YOU WANT! The amount of silicone cc's in an implant is more than the cc's of your natural breast due to the nature of silicone - it's firmer and won't ever sag!
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