TRIPLE POSITIVE GROUP
Comments
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For me, exercise is my anti-depressant. I am addicted, and when I am too ill to exercise- that's when the shadows get darker. But we are all different and different things work for each of us.
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I hope that those of you who are thinking you may need an antidepressant will not be scared by this article. My beef with the article is that they did not report which antidepressants have a known hard discontinuation. Not all of these drugs have this side effect. The deal is the discontinuation taper. A psychiatrist would generally know more about this.
For me, these drugs gave me my life back and I will always be on them. Without them I would rather be dead. Seriously. When I started taking one years ago, I did wonder if there were side effects and did they really know what the long term ramifications were. I was in such bad shape that I made the decision I had to go on these, regardless of the drug profile.
And I have a happy life and I look forward to the future. It does get better, much much better.
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Cowgirl,
I'm with you on this one. Some psychotropic drugs are easy to quit; others are not. My son was diagnosed with depression and anxiety in 2014, and we have had to try a range of different drugs to see what worked for him (he has autism and isn't very verbal). Fortunately, he has a great psychiatrist who has helped him get on and off a number of drugs without too many side effects. It helps if you're working with a psychiatrist rather than just a GP or whatever.
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There is nothing short term about treatments for triple positives. I had never taken antidepressants until cancer. It's good to be informed, but, for everyone here who is in the midst of treatment or still dealing with the side effects and aftermath, please don't be afraid to raise your hand and speak to your care team.
Good doctors are well-informed. In my humble opinion, some medical oncologists are very familiar with the crippling effects of cancer and its impact on quality of life as well as healing. Some suffer from the same malady.
There is no shame in asking for help. Please, especially newbies to the list, be your own best advocate. When you need help, you will feel it and I encourage you to seek it.
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Hi Hapb,
With all due respect, we need to appreciate that each person is different in terms of how they cope. The idea of whether or not it is worth it Is up to each of us as individuals. For instance, I was seriously struggling, so took them for anxiety. A slower wean would have eliminated the side effects for me. But that aside, they were very helpful. We need to do what we need to do.
We are all “otherwise mentally healthy” until we’re not.
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Hap, perhaps you didn't take antidepressants because of your superior knowledge (I mean this only to point out that your comments seem to imply that you believe that fact). I have another side of this coin that should be considered. You didn't take antidepressants because you didn't need them. What also should be considered, and furthermore respected, is that some cancer patients do need them and they can make the difference between misery and the ability to cope with a situation no one should have to face.
Hap, I mean absolutely no disrespect to your opinions. I am really glad that I have been Around long enough to realize how many of your opinions skew. What I fear is that a newly diagnosed Triple POsitive patient will come on these boards, read one of these non-medically trained op Ed's and in their state of fear and shock believe the opinion is absolute fact. Hap I hope you will at least take this into consideration rather than immediately blasting me for what is only my opinion
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Hapb,
I was not clinically depressed and yet my sadness and anxiety was profound. So even if these emotions are “short term" (2 months? 7 months? It doesn’t matter), it’s a matter of how to face each day and see some glimmer of hope and how to get out of bed and feed the kids or do whatever it is we need to do.
Mental health is a fluid thing. Clinical or not, when it’s not there, it’s not there. When the house is on fire, it’s on fire. Then help is vital. And we all need to find it in a way that works for us. I am certain you believe this
; I truly believe you support that. 0 -
opposing opinions and observations are very different than personal attacks. I felt strongly enough about this issue to post knowing that you would accuse me of something or other.....within seconds which is your MO. I honestly believe these threads have the ability to help fellow cancer patients. What doesn’t help is someone getting immediately defensive when challenged with opposing opinions. For that reason I will no longer be posting on this thread. I wish you all the best but cannot tolerate such negativity when there are other threads that want to help rather than preach in such a negative manner. Thanks
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hi Juli,
Please don’t leave. This thread has certainly had its ups and downs lately, but there is so much info here and vibrant discussion. You are valued here
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I have been lurking on this site since I was diagnoised in September and this is my first post.
First time visiting this topic and what do I find? Another HapB attack. HapB, it seems like you need to step back and take a break. Your posts do nothing positive, they just drive people away. Then again that might be your goal.
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HapB,
You may not attack people directly, but some of us have felt your wrath nonetheless. For example, after I mentioned that I take three medicines to address my high blood pressure, you posted that high blood pressure is something that can be controlled by exercise and diet alone. So, obviously, I am a moron for relying on Big Pharma for helping me managing my high blood pressure.....
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Elaine, I think you expressed where the antagonism toward Hap's posts about medication, diet, etc. comes from in general.
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Well, I thought about not posting but here I go.
I lost count of how many times I was offered anti depressants when first diagnosed. The NP at my center insisted I fill her Rx "just in case." She said everyone gets depressed with breast cancer. Dang, if mine had not been found by "mistake" I would not be here today. I wasn't depressed I was joyful. However, I could not concentrate and stay focused.
I saw my Primary Care and he sent me to a Psychiatrist who gave me a battery of tests and talked with me. A Psychiatrist knows the medical side of breast cancer as well as the mind.
Best decision ever as I have been treated for "shock." As I posted previously about 80% of BC Women experience shock at some point. I found the article on BCO and have lost the link.
I believe we should get treatment physically, emotionally, and spiritually as needed on this journey. If exercise works, then do it! If eating X works, then do it!
I am an advocate that the most qualified person treats in their area of expertise. We are all walking in a different lane on this journey.
And I honestly believe there are mentally unqualified providers throwing anti depressants like candy. I think that is the summary of Hap's link.
Vicky
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<coachvicky--can "X" = chocolate? ;-) >
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Ingerp If chocolate works! Funny story follows: On Easter, our son and DIL went to great links to get a sugar free, gluten free cake for dessert. DH and I savored a thin slice every night afterwards. I was gaining weight. Just a little but still gaining. Son came over for "confession." He called the bakery and asked how they got the cake sugar free. The baker said we don't do sugar free. Son replied that the cake was marked SF. Baker said that meant SOY free. We gave the rest of the cake to them. Sugar is my enemy.
Vicky
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Ingerp - nodding head vigorously at X = Chocolate. My drug of choice is 3.5 oz bar of Green & Black's Organic 85% Cacao bar. Take 1/4 of a bar a day for regular every day "crap," 1/3 of a bar on stressful days and a 1/2 bar when you learn that your mammogram shows new microcalcifications that weren't on your mammo last year.
(They are going to redo mammo in six months. Kinda like waiting six months for the results of a biopsy that everyone is pretty sure is benign but ... I am definitely going to be stocking up on my Dark Chocolate.) 0 -
Hap, yes, they actually believe that the calcifications are the result of radiation and surgery. There were two radiologists at the Breast Center where the mammo was performed and that was their conclusion. I then saw my CNP at the Breast Surgeon's office and she concurred with the assessment. Today, I saw my radiologist who said the calcifications looked like he would expect them to look from radiation and surgical damage and not like cancer. He said that my original lump did not present as a calcification, and these are located behind my nipple and not at the sight of my original lump. He said they are being cautious with the six month mammo and MRI because of my history. So...
I should also say that I have breast lymphedema, which we finally diagnosed last summer after two diagnostic mammo's, two ultra sounds, a punch biopsy and a consultation with a very smart lymphedema therapist, which happened because my radiologist suggested to me that lymphedema might be the problem. (I got to the right therapist thanks to Binney and the crew who give aid and comfort on the lymphedema threads.)
I love my radiologist. I actually saw him as a second opinion, and he was willing to listen to my concerns and work with me whereas the original radiologist practically patted my head and told me he had been doing this a long time and not to worry. Yeah, that was not going to happen. My point is that I have had issues all along, so no one should worry unnecessarily that they will find themselves in my boat when they have their own mammo.
Good luck on your mammo, Hap.
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Gee, I don't really know if they left the clip in or not. I saw the films of my mammo, and I saw where lump was taken out. I don't think I saw anything else, so if it's there it wasn't obvious to me. I will have to ask the next time I go into the surgeon's office. Do they normally leave the clips in?
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Coach, your takeaway from the article was correct, but you didn’t caution others from taking them. I think the problem within the group is not so much that information is offered but rather that it is then editorialized.
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hap - the clips left in the breast are titanium, same material as used for pins, rods, and screws used in orthopedic surgeries, heart valves, and also for artificial joints. It is used primarily because it is super strong but lightweight, corrosive resistant, and generally hypoallergenic. There is that rare person that is sensitive to it, but the vast majority tolerate it with no issues.
I am a bit reluctant to post about anti-depressants other than to say that I agree that they should be prescribed by a psychiatrist If needed for depression because that is the area of specialty most well versed in handling the need. The cited article was a general commentary, and was not specific to breast cancer patients who may have a more sudden onset and unanticipated need to take this kind of drug. However, I would say that prescribing a drug like Effexor specifically for side effects from anti-hormonal therapy might be better suited to oncologists as they may be more well versed in this drug mediating those type of side effects, as long as the patient is well managed in terms of need and cessation techniques. FWIW, I have never been offered any anti-depressant from either BS, MO, or PS. My BS offered limited short term anti-anxiety help but I declined it - but I think it was appropriate in the context of new diagnosis and the attendant stresses.
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Not to beat a dead horse...my onco at the time of starting Tamoxifen put me on Effexor for hot flashes. The Effexor didn't do a darned thing for the hot flashes. Gabapentin was thrown into the mix for my neuropathy and Tamoxifen bone pain. Gradually, the dosage were upped several times. Still no relief from the hot flashes so I weaned myself off the Effexor very slowly. I got "brain zaps" which I understand is a common withdrawal s/e. The Gabapentin stopped working as well at 900mg. So Cymbalta was added. Down the road, I got sick of the pill mill and weaned myself slowly off the Gabapentin, Cymbalta and Tamoxifen. Although I was not taking these drugs for depression, I note that I am more easily drawn into arguing with hubby BUT he really needs to watch his mouth, or else!
The moral of my story...yes, these doctors really do prescribe this stuff like candy!
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Hi ladies...it’s been awhile since I’ve been here. Tried catching up on all of the posts but there are so many! I did zero in on the antidepressant discussion though as it’s been on my mind for months.
One of my radiation oncologists told me to watch for anxiety, sadness, mood changes, depression following treatment.... I was certain I would be fine. Lol! And while I’m still taking Herceptin, I feel like getting through Chemo, surgery, radiation, was so much easier than the lows I’ve experienced on Aromatase Inibitors. The last 6 months have been the worst emotionally and mentally for me. My new oncologist changed my AI to Letrozole from Arimidex hoping it would lessen the anxiety, fear of recurrence, tendon issues, joint pain. I was not offered antidepressants at that time but I recently requested them in desperation. I had signed up for group therapy prior to my doctors appointment and they want to see if it will be effective enough. I’ve agreed for now. (I lost my mom a week prior to diagnosis and a very close friend to brain cancer 6 months ago which I couldn’t/ didndeal with during my own cancer treatment). I do have Ativan now when my thoughts completely overwhelm my logic...but will still consider a serotonin ( our happy, flexible, tolerant, sleep inducing neurotransmitter) booster if needed. So far 5HTP ( a health food supplement which is a precursor to serotonin) is working for me along with 5-6 days of swimming laps per week. I took a AI break in December for a happy holiday and recently to see if my plantar fasciitis would resolve. I will stay on my AI’s as required but I’m not happy about it!🤨 From what I’ve read there are only a few antidepressants that work with AI’s...so glad to read all of these amazing tips here on BCO again! 🤓
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Hapb, I’m glad you made the decision to create your own thread. I think you’ll be much happier this way.
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hap - yes, I believe both Predict and Lifemath calculators are for OS only, not DFS. I am not aware of any calculators that use DFS as a benchmark in results, but there is study data that does. The difficult thing is trying to tease out the population makeup to determine how closely they resemble us as individuals, but because the study populations are more broad, the information is less defined.
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I only tookTamo for 3-1/2 years
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Hap - Read Lala1's post today on the "Bottle of Tamoxifen" thread
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hap - part of the issue is that breast cancer isn't one straightforward disease. What works for ER+, may not apply to ER-, the Her2- patients don't have the same issues as us Her2+ patients. There isn't one treatment for everyone with one DFS and OS. A breast cancer diagnosis consists of many complicated parts. Your diagnosis is not the same as mine even though we are both triple positive. There are so many degrees of grade, tumor size, ER/PR percentages, strong or weak Her2 expression, etc., and seemingly endless combinations of those clinical factors. This is just an example - when someone says exercise may reduce recurrence risk I don't think that can't be applied wholesale to every breast cancer patient. Exercise may not provide a great degree of additional benefit to a very fit person but it might to someone who may be less fit. Since estrogen is linked to body fat, a risk reduction may occur in someone who has body fat to lose, but if someone is very thin this may not apply. It may not apply at all to ER- patients because estrogen does not fuel their cancer. I agree, it is confusing, but that is because it is very complicated. You are never going to find applicable DFS stats because there are too many variables. One of the things we discover as we exit active treatment is that survivorship is really just a roll of the dice. Learning how to live with that is one of the hardest parts of this experience.
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SpecialK
You wrote: One of the things we discover as we exit active treatment is that survivor ship is really just a roll of the dice. Learning how to live with that is one of the hardest parts of this experience.
How sad what you write and how right you are. I think it is the emotional part of the journey that is the hardest.
Vicky
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I have had no problems with clips from a previous calcification. They always noted it; however now it is gone as part of the February lumpectomy
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@ Blownaway ... That is a great post. Thank you for suggesting it. I plan to ask my MO about these suggestions. I am already doing them (exercise, aspirin, fruits & veggies) but want his take as well. Years ago my Momma said that if aspirin had be cultivated and used differently, we would see it as a cure for many diseases and not just for headaches. I have no idea how she came up with this but she was always reading "stuff."
Thanks again.
Vicky
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