Microfat grafting or BRAVA doctor recommendations
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oh boy Geewhizz and Kate i feel really bad for you both! That is very wrong,only cause more problems ,who cares if you got squishy's if your in pain aelse where now? Did either of u have nodes taken out? I did and the scar is very noticable and it has a lot of scar tissue under it and it looks like an iron rod under my skin coming from that area.did either of u have that if u had nodes taken out? Maybe you have something like that now since your armpit got diced
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geewhiz- Yep, I pretty much got rid of a lot of sleeveless tops I had because the scars are SO obvious. I can handle the necessary scars but I don't think these were. It still makes me angry. The PS I consulted with in Beverly Hills was trying to be diplomatic but basically said the only reason to put the incisions there was it was easier for the surgeon- no other reason.
beacher- I had SNB on both sides but my scars from that had healed so well Dr. K couldn't even tell where they were. The new scars are deep and still pretty red- 7 months later. Am hoping they fade with time.
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Bher- Trying to hang in..sometimes a minute at a time. Thank you for kind words
I have had these implants for 7 years..that's right 7 years. They always felt bad but now they are unbearable. I feel like that guy up in the bell tower..with the big lump on his back. Why is it so important to have FG at time of implant removal? And if Pec muscles are damaged is it OK to shoot them up with fat? If I have them removed and the muscles are stitched back down is FG still possible on muscles stitched back down to the chest wall? Also, this new incision thing...that concerns me. Shouldn't these be yes or no answers with the PS docs?
Hearing about Smart Lipo...what's that..anyone hear of that?
What I think is that they are all learning as they go and in 20 years, they will have this figured out. Why else would what one doc says vary so greatly from another and so on...
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yupJessica i guess we are the guinea pig with no say so where and how they cut us,hmmmm
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My understanding is smart lipo destroys or damages the fat cells... not what you want if you are planning to use them for fat grafting.
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Jessica - Seven years is a long time for sure to be uncomfortable and now with pain. I could not even stand having mine for 3 months. Just wanted mine out and if fatgrafting had not been available for me at the time, I would have had them removed anyway. So I can relate to what you are saying. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut and do what you think is best for you.
There are other women on the MBC website who went from flat to fatgrafting so I would think it must be possible to have your implants removed and later on have fatgrafting done. I just think it would be an advantage to have some fatgrafting done at the time of the implant removal to have a head start while their is some space for the fat to survive after the implant is immediately removed.
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Beacher- I think it's true they are figuring it out as they go but if they wuld at least tell us that we could make informed decisions...kinda like they do with other surgeries.. yes, we know there can always be complications yada yada. I know for me it would have been useful to know that my chest muscles were going to be cut. Guess they don't want to worry our pretty little heads with such things.
Kareenie- oh boy, not good on the Smart Lipo. Will check that out...Thanks.
Bher- yes, you are right I think about immediate FG. Just don't know what is up with the pec muscles in general and it would be great to leave them alone for awhile. But wondering if muscles have to be placed or stitched in a certain way during the implant removal for optimum FG down the road. I think they actually inject the muscles with the fat so if they are tacked down or previously somehow damaged....what then.. It's the stretching of muscles again??
So much to think about...
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Kate and Geewhiz - did Dr. K explain why he insisted on the transaxillary approach? I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you both had with it.
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He told me that he had already opened the mx scar line previously. But that has not been an issue in subsequent consults with other PS's I am talking with..they all said they would use the mx scar line if an implant was exchanged, etc.. My skin seems quite healthy.
And yes Beacher, I had full axillary clearance. ALL level one and two nodes were removed on the right side. I also had a several inch long rod of hard nasty scar tissue that was disfiguring and uncomfortable where the nodes came out.. I guess that is one bonus of the armpit incision...he somehow totally fixed it with the 2nd surgery. I have an ugly scar, but no more lump. I am not happy about the scars, but I HATED that mess left from the mx and am happy Dr K took care of it. He didnt even mention he did it. And honestly, like I mentioned before, I think Dr Buchanic (dont know how to spell) was the one doing the surgery. I woke up at one point, with my legs flailing in the air and saw her. She was in the room when I was drawn on by Dr KI and she was the one by my side when I woke up, and she ws the one who did my post op. So, I honestly think he was perhaps around, or stopped in. I asked this of the staff and didn't get a clear cut answer other than "Oh yes, surgeries are done in tandem".
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There is another fat grafting procedure being done in Australia. They implant a biodegradable scaffold under your skin, turn some veins to give the area a blood supply, implant some fat stem cells and then over several months they grow into new breasts (but fat tissue - not breast tissue) The procedure is being done in clinical trials there and maybe in Europe &/or Japan as well. It might be the next generation procedure that is universally accepted. I forget the exact name but you can google it.
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Geewhiz and Kate, I apologize if I missed this information from a prior post, but can you clarify as to why the armpit incisions were done? Was it to remove/exchange implants or was it part of just a lipo and fatgrafting session? And geewhiz, why the heck were your legs flailing around during surgery?? Is this normal?
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Darn if I know rk85!! I had a nurse holding one leg up in the air. Maybe it was when they were turning me over to my back to lipo or maybe putting me in the garment at the end? I saw other doctors and nurses clearly...and I remember being FREEZING cold. The nurse made eye contact with me, so I know they know I was conscious a few moments. My surgery ended at 4 pm, but I didnt wake up until 7... so I really think they saw me wake up then flooded me good with drugs. I also was REALLY nauseous when I woke up which has never happened.
The armpit incisions were because he replaced implants...large for small. I am regretting that decision.0 -
Geewhiz, sometimes people have what is called "recall" - they wake up or remember things in surgery. That happened to me once and it is quite frightening. My friend who is an anesthesiologist told me they try to adjust the meds so that you are just waking up near the end, but sometimes you wake up a bit early. My friend told me to tell them you have recall any time you have surgery again - they'll give you Versed and that helps knock you out better. :-) It worked like a charm for on my last surgery. Oh and it's normal to be cold in the operating room. They keep the temps down to try to keep bacterial growth down.
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Thanks for the clarification RoBo47. I can understand about the scars. I sometimes feel silly explaining that I didn't want DIEP partly b/c of the hip to hip scar but I know from my reduction surgery that my skin scars with big unsightly keloids. These do not get better with time - my 5 yr old reduction scars looked just as bad as they did 4 yrs ago.
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hrf, Wow that surgery is the stuff of sci fi / fantasy! Almost miraculous. Hopefully our daughters generation will have this treatment and wonder how we survived the procedures we go through now.
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The device hrf is referring to is called Neopec.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/6548802/Australian-scientists-to-start-breast-regrowth-trial.html
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Kareenie, thanks for finding the link. They are making progress and I think this will be available to us within the next few years ... or sooner. They are following a clinical trial model I understand so it will be more acceptable to the scientific community - not just anecdotal evidence. Dr. K's procedure may become obsolete before it becomes mainstream
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Ok...Geewhiz...the legs flailing about...this thread gets better and better. No one would believe this stuff we go through.. I do remember a freezing operating room. I walked myself into the operating room and they were playing country music very loudly and we were in NYC and I thought... this can't be good. If it was Britney Spears I would have run for sure. Also, there were ALOT of people in the OR too since it was a teaching hospital. Do not recommend this at all. There were several 20-something intern/boys whispering to one another huddled in the corner. On the table, right before they put me out, I looked up over my shoulder and introduced myself to the "Justin Bieber 5." I thought THEY were going to pass out.
Geewhiz-why do you regret going with the smaller implant? And wait..a different PS did your surgery other than Dr. K.?? I actually have a feeling that one of the Doogie Howser boys did mine. They should not do this bait and switch thing.
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There are so many things here that I have trouble with that I don't even know where to start. I guess the most troubling is that what hundreds of women have already successfully achieved, natural looking and feeling breasts using their own fat, is certainly not anecdotal evidence. We have had and currently still have numerous trials ongoing here in the US substantiating and proving what Dr. K, Dr. Delvecchio, Dr. Khoobehi and so many other pioneers are doing. The thought that something totally unproven in humans with a trial JUST starting and only a handful of subjects could go mainstream within 3 years is ridiculous. Then let's consider this "chamber" thing - I have alloderm and that is the only area where fat grafting HASN'T brought back feeling and sensation. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited that surgeons and scientists are exploring new ideas. I'm just a little cautious and hate the idea of something that already IS proven and I personally know is totally amazing is being dismissed or disparaged. Also the idea of using stem cells has been around for a long time and is very controversial.
For those of you have had had less than outstanding results, I'm sorry. Most of us on this thread are here because of failed or unsatisfactory results from another reconstruction method so it is heart breaking when yet another procedure hasn't fulfilled your dreams of "normal". However, the vast majority of us who have had micro fat grafting are incredibly happy! I would hate for these past few days of posts to be a possible deterrent for something that has proven so life-changing for so many women. Yes, there will always be risks. There will be the occasional not-so-great outcome. I know that in your case GeeWhiz, Dr. K was not optimistic and told you that he didn't think he could give you optimal results. It was a hard decision for you to go through with it anyway and I so hoped and prayed he could pull it off for you anyway. Give the guy a break for still attempting to give you a good result, many PS wouldn't even try.
Yes, we are still in experimental territory here in terms of technique, breast preparation, fat harvesting, etc. - however, hundreds of us are happy and have been given a tremendous gift. For those ladies contemplating having this done, I would love for you to see the ladies who were fortunate enough to have immediate fat grafting at the time of mastectomy. NOTHING SHORT OF AMAZING! The smallest incisions I've even seen for mastectomy and waking up with a small breast!
One more thing I had trouble with and several ladies have already commented on. The fatgraftpatients forum is the most comprehensive collection of information on Autologous Fat Micro Grafting out there. The administrator spends countless hours of her own, unpaid time tending to the forum. She's been the recepient of this gift of micro fat grafting and her motivation is simply to provide information that is so hard to find. The collection of patient stories, photos, surgeon information, Brava wear and care, even hotel information, is priceless. Countless women have been helped and this will be a resource for many, many more as they make decisions for breast reconstruction and/or augmentation.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
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I stand by my opinions and experiences and the right to post them. If I hadnt received so many supportive and encouraging pm's of others with similar experiences and concerns...I perhaps would not.
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Lee- I have no problems whatsoever with the fat grafting I received from Dr. K. The fat grafting made a HUGE difference in the look and feel of the implants. They now look like they are covered in natural, warm breast tissue. My only issue is with his continued insistence on using the armpit incisions on all the current patients he operates on. Since he didn't use to do this on previous patients I don't understand why he would be doing it now. It doesn't help to improve one issue aesthetically if you're creating a new problem in the process. I have consulted with 3 different PS's (one who was trained by Dr. K) and they all said they would never use this type of incision and that the only reason to do so is ease of swapping out the implants for the PS. Dr. K told me he would use my original incisions (under the fold of the breast) and then informed me otherwise 15 minutes before my surgery. His only reason was my original incision had healed so nicely he didn't want to mess with it. So he gives me a newer, more visible scar instead? It makes absolutely no sense.
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Lee, i understand where you are coming from,but these patients need to all tell about there experiences also.It is important for us undecided breast cancer patients that have already been through so much fear and some of us pain to be sure we know all the possible sides of all procedures. I know there alot of Fg patients out there happy and i know there are alot of diep patients out there happy, but knowing the possiblilties of side effects or failure,or there actual surgery experience is very good to know,Whether its good or BAD. I will not go on on how it is measuring up for my decision and why but.... THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT THE BOTH SIDES THE MORE I TRUST ..... TAKE CARE
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I did a little google research on the neopec method from Australia- it's fascinating, but it seems that the biotech company running the trial has lost major executives and they apparently are having financial difficulties. Although, the trial does seem to be continuing- seems like science fiction, but how amazing if it works someday. I'd still be so concerned about the stem cells, though.
I find that I identify with Beacher - and I very closely watch the comments about reconstruction from women who have had radiation and TEs. FG has been so amazing for lots of women. I don't think anyone can argue that point. It is pretty miraculous, in fact. But, for us radiation ladies it's definitely more of a challenge. I really, really appreciate hearing EVERYTHING.
I saw doctor Khouri for a consultation a couple weeks ago. He told me 4-5 surgeries minimum to do what I need done and with the travel etc. it's too much right now for me. And, I have to say I was really disappointed when he said he was going to do the armpit incisions on me. That's one of the major reason I didn't want to do diep because of more scars (probably a "football" shape to get rid of rads damage"). I also get freaked out by the comments that something unexpected happened in surgery that was different than expected. I've been through so much the last few years that I'm looking for the "sure thing" above all (to the extent that anything ever really is). But, fg is still high on my list. I just want to go in with very realistic expectations. Going to have consultation with a Ca dr who does fg on thurs.
Amanda0 -
Just to be clear, I wasn't endorsing the Neopec. Just putting the name out there so people could google it and decide for themselves. Seems much too unproven to me. Ditto what Lee said about the chamber and the stem cells also what about relocating a bloodvessel?????
Amanda - yes having realistic expectations is the key. There is no "sure thing" or "perfect" when it comes to any reconstruction method or any surgery for that matter.
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MandaLynn- After your consult would you might sharing the name of the PS you consulted with, where they are located and what your impressions were? It can be hard to find FG PS's so we try to post them here and I've started a list. Thanks so much and good luck with your appointment.
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Hi ladies-Has anyone heard of having saline implants DE-FLATED? I am hearing this is a good way to get immediate relief from implant pain caused by over-stretched pec muscles. Then, later have them removed and do FG, Diep or Sgap when ready to handle big surgery. Input/thoughts much appreciated!0
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I am not endorsing one method or another as I don't have enough information. I just think it's important that we all have as much information as possible to help in our decision making.
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Kate-
I should have mentioned that I'm talking to dr Greenberg. I know you already have too, so no one new to add. I'll probably talk to Trott and Koplin too.
Kareenie and lee - I'm pretty sure you both had implants removed. Did dr K go thru old scars or make new ones on the side? I'd really love to know why he's changed this. Did you have radiation?
Amanda0 -
And, Kareenie, I'm sitting here laughing because I talk a good talk about "realistic expectations" -- but the truth is I really, really want the best breasts ever that I can possibly get at this point! So much has been taking from me in the last three years- this is one thing I might be able to control...... right? Hope so.....
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MandaLynn- Actually I haven't met with Dr. Greenberg- just Dr. Koplin and Dr. Trott. I did read her blog, though, and she seems very enthusiastic about this procedure. Let us know what you're impressions were of her and her office. In case Lee doesn't post- she didn't have her implants removed, just exchanged for smaller ones and then I think 3 rounds of fat grafting over the top.
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