Hot Flash Forum!
Comments
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KIWI---I was in the middle of a counseling session , had a really bad flash, but was heavily layered b/c I was chilling.---started ripping clothes off, didn't warn the counselor(male)-------He jumped out of his seat and grabbed his chair from behind. It's only then did I notice him. "sorry hot flash". The look on his face was priceless. He deals with people that are a bit off all the time. So, wish I knew what his thoughts were. Worthy of TIm Conway and Carol Burnett.
I was already in bed and had a brain flash. Rennasaus-----you just started a beta blocker timed release, just looked up exact mechanism of action------it's good , but not as good as I had hoped. It blocks Symapathetic nervous systems beta 1 and beta 2 receptors. The good when I said it-the flash had to do with the medulla and the sympathetic system. The bad is beta 2 blockade can lead to a chf or asthma or copd decompensation s.e. --------so, anyone with a hx of those shouldn't take the drug. But at least it's a start. Beta 2 is only found in the lungs. I hesitated about writing exact mechanism of actions b/c for non med people it's going to sound way confusing , but putting it down on paper may help us sort out why certain drugs work and certain ones don't so, ignore what sounds to technical. Now I have to go look at clonidine --be back.
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Well clonidine is An alpha agonist with another affect that I ignored b/c I didn't recognize it right away. Which means it will dilate smooth muscle which is blood vessels. It primarily works from the brainstem which is where the medulla is. Agonist means to work like, antagonist, means to work against. The interest for me is all seems to mediated from the medulla. And I'm suppossing through a sympathetic stimulation clonidine centrally or blockade at the peripheral receptor like coreg. Well it's a start.
Why then do the ssri's and snri's work, Primarily snri's. Effexor cymbalta and savella. hmmm?
Goobly gook......... To much for my mind at this time of night.
Look at clonidine on wikipedia-------besides helping with bp. hotflashes, adhd, it helps insomnia, and drug withdrawal, alcohol withdrawal. I have to admit I had a preset against it b/c of my previous bad experience with it.
But it was great used with ativan for patients when preventing DT"s from alcohol withdrawal in the hospital setting
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Mouse -----love the suit thing. Actuallu you are not far off .There is a thing called a BEAR HUGGER.. It's used in the OR/RECOVERY area to cool or warm the patient. It's primarily used for warming , but can be used the other way too. But I think it's expensive. Disposable paper sheet with air holes that you hook up to a fan type apparatus. The technology looks like the old hairdryer set up from the 60-70's where you had the bonnet thing that fit over the curlers. Someone looked at the old technology and used it in a new way, by making a paper sheet with air holes towards the patient. Wish it were me--there rich now. Now may be someone from here can tinker with it and make something cheap.
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kiwimum - I carry around a folding paper fan with me at work and just fan away during meetings. Everyone is used to it now. Some like to sit near me to catch the breeze. I just go a bigger fan last week.
Sas - That's all right about the clonidine. I took it a while ago for my bp. It worked great my only complaint was a bit tired and dry eyes. I am definitely asking my gyn next month about trying it for the flashes.
Sorry ladies but for me the menopret doesn't seem to have helped.
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Kiwi, how awful that it is winter there and you are still "flashing" It's interesting that even in a cold room, the flash hits just as hard.
SAS, yes, the mechanisms for why different drugs work on these darn hot flashes is fascinating! Luckily I have no asthma or lung issues. I'm telling you, Coreg CR works like a charm. I am aMAZed at how few flashes I experience. Am having a flash right now, actually, but it is mild, and I don't have to take off any clothes. That is a miracle. I still get slight chills preceding the flash tho. Oh, and I have been in the Bear Hugger in the OR before — along with the purple paw socks!!
Omaz: Drats! Sorry to hear it. Shannon, if you see this, chime in and let us know if Menopret is still working its magic for you!
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Ren-I just don't get it -------all the breakthrough in science and brain function. AND this small thing ----in comparison to what is known , befuddles me. It is like so many other womens issues. It seemed that Freedman had made head way. I then found two other articles by him dated 2007 and 2011. Essentially updating his 2005 article, with no breakthroughs. It wouldn't surprise me if we haven't put him on a new path.
On of the things on the publish or perish thing. I learned on one job around in 1979. Is look at the bibliographies of whatever you are searching first, if you keep seeing the same articles quoted in the first few bibs. Forget what your reading and go find those articles. To much of what happens in the P&P publish and Perish scenario . Is authors are really just looking at old work and writing something. But does that something have merit. It has enough merit to get publish, but just is a rehash of old news.
The thing that we , keep identifying as a group is the "something -Aura". All those somethings have an origin in the midbrain or brainstem. So, if that be true, I haven't seen much focus on that.
BUT there is so much info on the internet. AND so, much is so technical that even after studying it for years, as it used to be a favorite, but I have fallen away in the last x number of years. It may seem like I'm harping on something, but their is that one little spot for each of us that starts the cascade and then we are in a full blown flash.
Let me use the clotting mechanism as an example, there are last I knew, about say 12 steps, once the body recognizes a disruption or bleed, that sends a whole cascade of things occurring to form a clot. Similarly, in an allergic response from the moment the body recognizes an antigen b/c an antibody has been formed b/c of a prior exposure, a whole cascade of events occur , again it is a dozen plus steps. All of this has been discerned by science beginning many many years ago. Drugs have been formulated for each, to interrupt the cascades at a certain point. Why we should be in such infancy stages of understanding hot-flashes, doesn't make sense.
We are still in the phase of what I call Paintball drug therapy. The drug is used and lets see if it works. Doesn't work we find another one. It's like throwing paintballs at the wall and seeing if it sticks. Freedman did publish an article about Lexapro and that it didn't show to be effective. His comment I found interesting " We would never have done the study if we didn't think it was going to be successful." Well that is the scientific method--develop a question>>hypothesis>>procedure>>test>>evaluate results>>publish.
We are into a phase now and it is being pushed by the public with docs following rather slowly. Cytochrome 450 genetic DNA testing of liver pathways. Many pathways are recognized, but only a few have DNA testing available. It has been quite a few years that the routes /paths have been required to be in a drugs profile for the PDR and Pharmacopoeia. This is where medicine is going . When I brought up to our ONCS, mine blankly stared, My DH's said I don't even know that stuff. 6 months later they were getting training house wide.
2D6, 2,C9, 2C19. 25% of all drugs take a first pass through 2D6path in the liver. One of the biggest routes is 3A4--no test for it yet. When there is, that will change much, it will be huge. This genetic testing will show how drugs compete for the same path, whether we are slow , medium , or fast metabolizers. We will then enter a new phase of pharmacology. It will no longer be paintball therapy. We are there now, if you want to ask you doc for testing. It will be interesting to see what their responses will be. If they say it's not available. let them know that you know it is. I did and it has changed the practice of 7 docs in 4 facilities. Plus my councelor is so into it b/c after learning what it means ---he saw how it fit into how psychotropic or psych therapy drugs may or may not have worked for his patients. He is already influencing other professional in Psychotherapy in the county. It will be a domino affect. It all happened in with the ONC docs b/c I did my homework and said why can't we alter Dh's drugs during chemo b/c there are too many fighting for the same pathway. Relating frustration to the counselor, he picked up on it's value right away without any pushing.
Some may see this as a tangent---could be. But the timings right, to be on the leading edge with your doc's. Watch their eyes, if the are blank---they haven't kept up and you are ahead of them.
Some posts ago-----can't check who said it otherwise I will loose this very pontificating/ wordy post. She said each time she explained what was happening to her her docs looked at her as if she were_______(forget what word she used to describe). I meant to write right away------the reason they reacted that way is they didn't have a clue, but didn't have the integrity to say "I don't know". I've always valued that in any person. No bluff, no dancing around the question to make you think they know. Just a simple "I don't know". I have no problem like we are trying to do here, is trying to put puzzle pieces together. That's healthy. All ideas may lead to new explorations
Well may be I'll go and look at Menopret, haven't done that yet. Glad it's working for some, sorry not for others. REN-----your Coreg response stands right up there with Clonidine, and Effexor and the other drugs doing their magic. Now if we only knew why?
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Menopret is Black cohosh----------will check in the NIH and see what they have to say-sas
This below here is just one add for menopret from the web. brought here as info for those interested. not recommending anything. it's for our learning. The posts after this are going to be from NIH National Institute of Health.
Bionorica´s Support for the Uncomfortable Symptoms of Menopause*
Menopret® is a scientifically grown, harvested and tested, Black Cohosh menopausal support product* that has been recognized by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) Office of Dietary Supplements for outstanding research in efficacy and safety. Bionorica´s cultivation methods, harvesting and extraction techniques are award-winning and patented for their effectiveness. Helps relieve hot flashes and night sweats.*
- Helps relieve related occasional sleeplessness.*
- Helps relieve irritability and mood swings.*
- Does not contain soy, estrogen or progesterone.
Before taking in combination with prescriptions, over-the-counter medications, and other dietary supplements please consult your health care practitioner.
Suggested Use: 1 tablet daily, or as directed by your health care practitioner. Best if taken with water or other liquids and always at the same time of day (morning or evening).
Ingredients: One serving size: 1 tablet - Calcium 46 mg, Proprietary Black Cohosh root dry extract complex, 32.5mg. Made with Bionorica's proprietary Black Cohosh root dry extract complex; equivalent to 42.45 mg of Black Cohosh root.
Other Ingredients: Corn starch, lactose monohydrate, sodium starch glycolate, cellulose, colloidal anhydrous silica, hypromellose, magnesium stearate, titanium dioxide, polyethylene glycol, yellow iron oxide, red iron oxide. CONTAINS MILK. 100% Estrogen-free. DROPS - water, ethanol, saccharin sodium dihydrate, peppermint oil. Contains 38% alcohol by volume. 100% Estrogen-free.
Cautions: Not recommended for pregnant or lactating women or women planning to become pregnant. Discontinue use immediately and consult a physician if you experience any allergic reaction or gastro-intestinal distress or any ill effect from this product. Do not use if you have liver disease. Keep out of reach of children.
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
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http://nccam.nih.gov/health/blackcohosh/ataglance.htm
Tested link works
This is the hyperlink to NIH _National Institute of Health. NIH is a major founding agengy for research in the USA. In the 90's the developed an arm that was called National Center for Complimentary and Alternative Medicine NCCAM--- The NIH recognized that nothing was going to stop an American from trying something not approved by the FDA if we chose to do so. So, they established this division of NIH to do research on complimentary medicine. The old adage if you can't stop them , join them. Something along those lines. The idea was to look at things , that the American people were doing or putting in their bodies ----did they have value based on evidence based research. Evidence based research, uses a systematic approach of clinical trials to show the validity of whatever is being studied. This type of research is really quite recent starting in the late 40's. Most people have heard of double blind studies, where one group is given the test drug and one the test drug.
Somehow they prevent C&P. hence the link. Keywords NIH complimentary medicine,then you can plug in Black Cohosh in there search box, and more studies will come up, that are not available on the regular internet
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http://nccam.nih.gov/health/hotflashes/mayo.pdf
tested link works
This conference in 2004--------is a hoot. It effectively sets the agenda of what needs to be done. If you can amuse your self to the end. Bottom line , it's 2011--------little headway has been made. Freedman has the most published works in the bibliography. Not a need to read, but establishes hotflashes as a public health issue.
Hmmm It's like I said earlier-------why has this been a non issue. This was 2004. DUH
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http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/blackcohosh/
Here's another link for black cohosh. It may be estrogenic so should probably not be used by those with er+ bc, according to this. My onc prescribed black cohosh for me after 2 years of taking Femara. (My insurance pays for alt meds.) By then my estrogen was probably so low she figured it couldn't hurt. Still I was too scared to take it.
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Heidihill----------I'm not saying anything different than you are, if you read the links. My beginning statement was to look at Menopret. There are no evidence based articles on the internet . That is why I went to the NIH and to NCCAM. If you read the links I posted , it's saying the same thing as yours. It is From the same organization if you look at the URLs NIH.
What in my postings made you think I was saying something different--------need to know b/c Then may be I wasn't clear . Come back please.
EDIT: Plus Heidi I gave a description of evidenced based research and the function of NIH and NCCAM
I read your link and I like it very much, in addition to the first NIH/NCCAM link they do nicely together -----thanks for the addition-sas
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I wasn't rebutting anything you said. Just adding information. Glad you thought it was helpful.
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Heidihill-------cool just wanted too make sure nothing I said was unclear. I really try not to be disconnected-------Thanks
OH yes your addition was very good. I'm glad they were posted so close together, makes for an easy read for anyone that comes after us.
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sorry trying and C&P to another thread and posted it to our own DUH LOL
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I was on HRT for about 18 years and when I was diagnosed with LCIS 3 years ago it was stopped abruptly. Hot flashes came on with a vengence and have continued to this day though not as frequently. I just started Arimidex and can't tell any difference , still flashing occasionally. If it stays like this I'll be able to deal with it.
Barbara
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Someone has a birthday in here!!! Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear SAS! Happy birthday to you!
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My friend just tried black cohosh (menopret) for her hot flashes and so far it is working!0
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Re what SAS said earlier about why are hotflashes are such a non-issue if it's been established that they are a public health issue. Because men don't have them
Also, it's been 3 weeks since I started Clonodine and I think it is starting to work. I have only had 1 hotflash today and it's already almost 5 o'clock I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The worst SE is dry mouth which I will gladly swap for feeling hot and sweaty.0 -
good to know wenweb - I am asking for it next month. Is yours a pill? I think my gyn does patches.0
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Yep. It's the lowest dose. I'm taking half in the am and the other half in the pm.
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Mouse thank you so much for the song I sang it in my head as I read it.
Wenweb---yup you so got what I meant. If you have the patience to read(skim) the link from the 2004 article, it is so denigrating to women as a whole. Consistently throughout the position paper, it refers to the INACCURACIES of self report by women and the placebo effect. It kept reinforcing that the most accurate determination of an actual flash was the placement of a sternal monitoring electrode to a monitoring device. It made no mention of what we are all describing as the "something-Aura" (For new readers that may have missed this---it's the symptoms we feel right before a flash). . There was no mention of any symptoms as we describe here. There goal was to define the problem. There were experts pulled in from all over the country. As I said earlier we have made little progress. Some , but..........
There was a similar situation within the last ten plus years, when a female doc was asked by her patient whether or not she should take aspirin as a cardiovascular/stroke preventative. That doc realized AND had the integrity to say I don't know. She researched it and found all the studies published were on men. From her research and follow through came rules that research on drug recommendations had to include women as part of the cohort of the study population for drugs.
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sas - did you hear back from the moderators about your pm?0
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Thanks Ladies, I am going to ask for a Vit D level monday at the Doc's Had one that was normal but a year ago
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I have never had mine done. I think they assume that living in AZ it would be normal. Probably shouldn't assume that.
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Wenweb---when you describe your dosing, please put exact amount taken at each time-
Congratualtions on the reduction of flashing YEAH to be dry again.I'm going to re-post something I learned today about pain meds that I put on the insomnia thread. It's not related to flashing , but anyone on tamox /AI's and pain meds nay have had this as a problem to
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I went to GYN and no help with hot flashes...BS..."Put up with them"....Pain Doc...gave me pain med .....GP....gave me an antidepressant! Not good with pain med... he switched to a FM drug...tried Effexor....I feel like stopping all this crap and doing a "wash out" and try black cohosh...remember it was recommended for labor some 20 yrs ago by a neighbor. I thought I would be feeling better than I do but just trying to accept my aging body.
check these out http://www.hotgirlspearls.com/
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MRDRN----------GYN ---"put up with them"----Obviously they never had one, let alone multiple per hour, or through the night---or so much you end up with skin problems b/c the skins so wet-----can't believe gyn is female?
There's some postings previous page from NCCAM/NIH re: black cohosh---------unless I'm reading it wrong it says it's nonestrogenic--------try a washout , then go for it. There have been a few here it helped. I think Shannon's doing well with it.
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Isn't there any med out there for chemo induced hot flashes?? I can't believe we have only to resort to herbal remedies like black Cohosh Root.
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Try the prana breating technique for hot flashes that my healer taught me: Breath in deeply through your left nostril while pinching shut your right, the reverse and breath out your right nostril exhaling slowly. Do it a number of times during the hot flash.
It works for my good friend who is going through regular menopause -- but not me as I'm perimeno and I think chemopause is a whole different ball game.
If someone tries it on this board and is successful, please let us all know.
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I have a question...do any of you find that your flashes Go through cycles (for lack of a better word). I seem to experience a long period of time where they are much more frequent and intense (like one at least every 30mins or hr) and then they lighten up a bit (might go a couple of hours between flashes for a few days or a week) and then they slam me again. This process just keeps repeating. I actually wondered if it is my body producing estrogen in smalls spurts again...is that even possible?
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