Bioidentical hormones..is anyone taking after breast cancer?
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Thanks, AA. How much testosterone were they using, and was the testosterone cream applied to the labia the way they RX it now?
I don't know what I'd do without my T cream.
T used to be a treatment for breast cancer. I met an older woman who was prescribed T after her surgery a number of years ago.
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Natty,
The following study, which also reported out in 2004, wasn't done apparently with bc patients, but was done with women suffering from low libido and it indicates use of a testosterone patch improved libido:
http://www.webmd.com/menopause/news/20040505/testosterone-improves-sex-for-some-women
The dose used for the trial I participated in was adjusted during the trial for each patient depending upon the blood levels of that individual for testosterone and for estrogen, with reduction of the testosterone applications for those whose levels were considered to have risen too high -- although I don't know what the basis was for the maximum levels, (whether it was more or less a guess or established with definite knowledge). My dose is listed as 2% testosterone cream and periodically I am tested for blood levels. For the trial I was in, it was not applied anywhere near the genitals.
P.S. I was given 10 mg daily:
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I have returned to this site after a year long absence. My wife was stage one in 2009. Excision with radiation then Arimidex. Tumor was E+ and P+. She cannot deal with the decisions regarding the many different types of treatments and side effects and leaves it to me and her MD's. Her Onco was straight line AMA, no hormones of any kind, drugs to combat depression, hot flashes, etc. After watching her fight against all of those (the pharma solutions were not very effective) I began researching for months and came to the conclusion that BHTR would not only help her side effects, but also prevent recurrence. Fortunately, her primary MD had survived BC (it was obvious she had researched the BHRT risks and benefits) and helped us prescribing Bio progesterone and testosterone from the local compouding pharmacy. These did alleviate the hot flashes, not so much the depression and other private matters. Now, our primary MD has relocated, other BHRT MD's are scarce here, and my wife's Onco is telling her the bio progesterone will fuel any remaining P+ bc cells left behind. I'm once again on the research trail, but I'm getting so tired of seeing one study say one thing, and another something else. Meanwhile, the conventional medical community is against the BHRT approach. Yet, I feel like if I allow her to go off of the Progesterone, she will be subject to E imbalance due the evironmental Estrogens she is subject to that Armidex won't suppress. In this research, I feel alone, confused and exhausted. I just want to do what is best for her, and feel like the conventional medical community, although well meaning, is so controlled by big pharma and politics that they are blinded. All i have is a BA in general studies; I am not a doctor, yet I find myself having to decide which research is the most unbiased. I am so scared of making the wrong decision. I don't even know if there is a question or comment here, I'm just so tired.
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weary: It sounds like you have done extensive research in an effort to help your wife. I think at this point you have to go with your intuition because all of the conventional approaches are so flawed with little or no studies to support the use of BHRT. I think you do what you feel is best and do very diligent follow up monitoring. At some point QOL is important...at least it is to me.
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Wearyresearcher57,
I'm hoping you both are at least close to middle age or older, for the additional hormonal protection age can provide.
Because I was the one in the family with some medical experience and not my spouse, I have been the one trying to figure out the medical issues for both of us. In the 10 years since diagnosis, I have learned to be much more wary than when I first started these efforts.
I am very sorry that Dr. John Lee died, as he seemed to be at least exploring better possibilities in our behalf, whether or not he hit the nail on the head all the time.
Unless by pure chance some force of economics or other limiting factor forces more research into metabolic processes as they relate to cancer, the medical establishment's resistance to better treatment will not go away. IMHO, until each cancer patient has a metabolic specialist sitting on their tumor board at the time of diagnosis with the authority to advise and critique the recommendations of the specialists who are focused on surgery, radiation, and oncology, we are going to continue to be the ones to go it on our best understanding. At present there do not seem to be programs designed to train those with the background in metabolic knowledge to focus on cancer and to run the really key clinical trials for it. It may not happen in time for your wife or for me or you, but unless and until we can find someone who has that kind of background and who is willing to translate what they see about it to us, I think we are all going to continue to hear the same broken record from the medical hierarchy.
With sincere sympathy,
A.A.
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Wearyresearcher, I think that is great how you are helping your wife. And I bet BHRT would meet with mainstream approval if real studies were done comparing it against the synthetic stuff.
Kaara, I've tried testosterone in 2 different forms. I tried androgel, which gets rubbed into the skin. I did notice positive results with this, as far as better mood and better sensations during sex, but the libido didn't really change. Also, the results didn't seem to last forever and I started having trouble sleeping well at night. As I was already not a good sleeper and was also on tamoxifen at the time and going through the end of perimenopause, which made my sleep even worse, the androgel might just have added to the whole hormonal chaos that was affecting my sleep. Since I still have some, I may try it again soon, as I'm no longer on tamoxifen. My Gyn had prescribed it and my Onc thought it was a great idea, as he said testosterone was previously used very commonly in breast cancer patients.
The current form of testosterone that I'm trying is in a vaginal cream that is mixed with estriol by a compounding pharmacy. So far, no difference noticed in sensations and it doesn't seem any better than using the estradiol cream that I still have also. The best thing I've used for down there so far, has to be some estriol suppositores that I ordered online. They also have vitamin E, cocoa butter in them and everything seems back to normal within a day or 2 of using them.
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RoseG: Could you please give me the exact name of the estriol suppositories...I would like to try them before going on testosterone. I can deal with the low libido...just not the pain of penetration:( That makes the entire experience not so much fun. Thanks
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Kathy, you need to understand that premarin is not a natural product and is indeed patented. It is derived from pregnant horses and then chemically twisted to form a patented form of estrodiol. Just because it is primarilly derived from horse urine, that does not make it a natural or non patent drug. Not even close.
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whew, this goes several pages back.
MsBliss, I agree with you completely that Premarin is poison and the way it has been marketed over the years darn right evil. I've done my homework. I'm on your side. The only reason I spoke out when I did was that I feel bringing health politics into it and claiming Premarin is patented clouds the whole estrogen question.
The name Premarin is trademarked, (1943), that does not mean it has a patent. It does not need a patent as it is a natural product so no one else can make an exact copy and anyone else making a bio equivalent product would have to go through years of clinical testing to make the same claims Wyeth was making for Premarin. Wyeth made sure of that over the years. (I think i posted a link in my previous message as but one example.) If your sources say something else then perhaps they have their own agenda.
Prempro has a patent in the US, but not in Canada, nor I believe in the UK. The product as sold in Canada, I believe, is slightly different requiring two pills instead of one. It is the one pill part that has the patent in the US.
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I took bio progesterone for a while after my first dx. I took that and maitake d fraction instead of tamoxifen. The way the doc who prescibed it explained it to me was that if the receptors are er+pr+, the er triggers the cells to grow, and the pr is what tells them when to stop growing. I stopped due to the expemse as well as the maitake. Now that I just got spine mets I'm back on the maitake. Was it a mistake to not take tamox? Was it a mistake to stop the bios and maitake? I will never know for sure but I'm still not convinced that tamox is a good drug. I am not one to rule out conventional tx. I did everything but tamox. But I am very pro alternatives if it makes sense. Its a shame they won't do more research because there is not much $ in anything natural. We just to be our own guinea pigs if we want answers.
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Kaara, I just got back from a vacation in San Diego and saw your post today. The suppositories are made by Helen Pensanti. If you google her name, it will bring you to her website where they sell all their products. Her prices are a bit more pricey and I did also find the same exact product on a website called PureFormulas.com, once there, do a search for E3 suppositories. Good luck!
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rgiuff: Thank you so much! I'm looking for anything that will make intercourse more comfortable without compromising my health. My SO has been very patient through all of this, but there's a limit to everything. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Lucy88
I have been taking bioidentical hormones for some six years but always resisted or lowered dose in using the progesterone cream. Recently diagnosed with dcis, stage 0, no tumor only showed up on MRI with increased blood flow, biopsey pulled cancer cells hence the lumpectomy - awaiting Labs but I am told the treatment is the same as stage 1 or 2! Which is shocking. I cannot find any studies that show Bioidenticals causing cancer and I am very reluctant to not begin to use them at some point
Hailey0 -
Hi ladies. I'm looking for a bioidentical hormone doctor in Illinois, specifically the western suburbs. I prefer any suburb than going into the city. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! I will accept PMs from anyone who prefers to not post their name.
Janis0 -
My mom uses bioidentical hormones. She had breast cancer in 1980. Now she's 86 and needs to find a new doctor because he's on medical leave of his own.
I just got to thinking, mom's memory has been noticeably tanking for the last 3 months. Do you suppose she's forgetting to use her estrogen cream?
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Would love to go back on the bioidenticals but so far no doctor will prescribe due to my BC diag in 2011. I'm taking tamoxifen (half the recommended dose) with few SE's. I do notice that my skin is not quite as supple as it was when I was on the hormones, and I continue to have mild hot flashes. Intercourse would be uncomfortable if not for my coconut oil that I use. It's all natural and allows me to enjoy lovemaking again...yea!
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I'm happy to have found this thread! I had been getting bioidentical hormone pellets in my hip for about 4 years and loved them! They brought back my libido and made me feel young, sexy and happy again. I was getting them from my gynocologist, but he refuses to give them to me anymore because of my BC. I'm so bummed. Trying to find another doctor in my area (so far no luck) that does them and will just not mention the cancer when I go in.
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cari: I thought about doing that, but decided it wasn't worth the risk, although I don't really think BH causes or promotes BC. If I were younger I wouldn't hesitate.
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I'm still looking for a bioidentical hormone doctor in the Chicagoland area or a doctor who will prescribe for me the estrace cream. The cream is the only thing I have found so far to eliminate the pain and bleeding I get from intercourse. Any ideas or help? Thx!
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I am taking bioIdenticals for almost two months now. Lowest dose I can take, is my strategy. Went to oncologist she said I was "too happy" but we got results from Petscan and I am clear. So we are tentatively continuing. I feel like myself again.
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Caryn,There is no such thing is "post" menopausal. You are either in menopause or you are not. It never ends once it begins.
Using BHRT is "natural". It will also help with issues like memory, bone loss and heart disease. As well as protect against some forms of cancer.
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Apelila,
I am cracking up over the hill here in San Jose. This thread is at the very end of my favorites list and I haven't posted on it for almost 2 years. I had to scroll back to even remember what I had posted.Thanks, I guess.
Caryn
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Bioidentical or not, it is still estrogen & still fuels estrogen positive cancer.
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Coincidentally, I just read this the other day re: BHRT treatment for menopausal symptoms:
BIORIDICULOUS: Evaluating use of dietary supplements & menopause treatments
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Apelila, yes and no. The symptoms of the initial phase of menopause often diminish with time.
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There is no such thing is "post" menopausal. You are either in menopause or you are not. It never ends once it begins.
I dont know if I agree with that. I went into meno 15 yrs ago at age 41. I had all kinds of symptoms for app a yr or so . Havent had a symptonm in 14 yrs. I call myself post meno - having been THROUGH menopause.
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purple,
I feel the same way about my meno experience. I went through it before bc. Symptoms lasted a while and then diminished. I do not know if, biologically, it is an ongoing process but post-menopausal is a commonly used term, and people understand what you mean when you use that term.
Caryn
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thenewme... excellent article.
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This article made me think of this discussion thread: http://www.integrativeoncology-essentials.com/201...
As the author says, it's a pre-clinical study with mice, so certainly not definitive enough to jump to any conclusions. But it's an interesting study and something I thought might be worth sharing here. Deanna
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dlb83: Thanks for sharing that article. I'm not on any BHT right now, but would love to be able to go back on it and get my hormone levels balanced. I do fine, but it's sometimes a struggle and there are no doctors that are going to risk putting me on it until something has been proven, not even my naturopath.
For the ladies that were having a difficult time with painful intercourse, I found that pure coconut oil does wonders, and my BF likes it much better than any of the gels that have been prescribed. It just feels more natural as a lubricant and has anti inflammatory properties as well. It was the answer to a prayer for me.
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