Bioidentical hormones..is anyone taking after breast cancer?
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I dont accept that menopause is natural. Death is natural too but we do everything to avoid it.
Hormones are a natural part of us that we start to produce at puberty. We feel best at the times of our lives when our hormones were optimal. Thats why women get itchy, bitchy and tired and tired during menopause. Menopause is when bones thin, hair thins, skin sags, cardiovascular systems slows, and mental alertness go to heck. Women deal with it and adjust because it happens gradually but if you could live just one day at optimal hormones again you would relive how lovely it all was.
Now not only am I menopausal, I also have to take Femara so whatever tiny amount of naturally occuring estrogen my poor adrenals were trying to make are now suppressed.
I hate this f****** BC. It has robbed me of alot.
There I'm done. I feel better now. If youre still reading.....thank you.
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Bio-identical hormones are really just hormones. Most are derrived from plants. In any event the bio-identical part has more to do with the pharmacy mixing the dose based on your levels. . These are called compounding pharmacies.
Bio-identicals are still hormones . Hormone receptor positive BC will feed on bio-identical hormones, conventional hormones, phytoestrogens ( from plants like soy) and our own naturally occuring hormones from ovaries, adrenal glands, and edipose tissue ( body fat).
I hate it that I have to suppress the little hormone I have left . But life is good.
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I am not itchy, bitchy and tired. Just saying. I think how you react to menopause varies a great deal. For me there is definitely a downside to having no estrogen (ooph+femara), but also an upside. I love not being all puffy/chubby anymore. I LOVE not having PMS anymore. In general I feel stronger and more at ease. There was an adjustment period that wasn't so fun, but at this point I feel very well.
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I found this info sheet about bioidentical hormones, and thought it was quite useful:
http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_releases/myths-and-truths-about-bioidentical-hormones
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Momine: Interesting article. Thanks for sharing. I too have adjusted to the lack of hormones in my body and it's not as bad as I once thought. Pure virgin coconut oil helps with any dryness that I have, so once I found that I was good to go.
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Interesting topic. I'm recent to the research, and have questions inspired by both vanity and dread of SE for the interest.
During and post-menopause I was on the lightest possible dose of Prempro, and I only took that every other day. I took so little that I was quit cold-turkey when I was diagnosed w/ E+/P+ a few months back. I was really surprised to experience hot flashes I hadn't had in years, and a week or so of bad joint pain that made it tough to move. Before my consult with the MO, I thought just quitting the HRT would eliminate the need for Hormone Inhibiting therapy.
Would the strong reaction to quitting the Prempro mean I supply a strong amount of estrogen naturally and that this is the reason for prescribing Tamoxifen (or whatever)? I have always had 'dense' breasts. If not, perhaps I do not need Tamoxifen?
I'm worried about the prospect of joint pain, depression, rapid aging, etc. etc. Confused,
Amy
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Amy, I think it will take awhile for your system to level out again after quitting Prempro, and the hot flashes and joint pain are normally a sign of too little estrogen -- in other words, the estrogen that was removed when you quit the Prempro.
Personally, I had a tough time with Femara (one of 3 aromatese inhibitors that are RX'd for post menopausal women). In retrospect, I believe it was b'cuz I had also quit Prempro cold turkey when first dx'd, so an estrogen blocker or modulator was like a double whammy to my system. At that time (several months after quitting Prempro), my normal estrogen level was "non detectable." But several years later, my estrogen level had returned to 16 -- probably higher than desireable. My point is, your body will need some time to adjust to making estrogen again since you've had to stop taking Prempro.
As far as the SEs of Tamoxifen or an A/I, there's kind of a wide range of reactions. I'm now on another A/I (Anastrozole) with no noticeable SEs, except that my skin seems more dry. So my best advice is to consider trying whatever onc thinks you need it, even if you initially try it the same way you did Prempro -- every other day. You can always quit if the SEs are too much for you. (((Hugs))) Deanna
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I used progesterone cream for two years, and I'm worried that it contributed to my cancer metastases. My cancer is ER and PR positive. If I could do it over, I wouldn't have gone there.
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Did you use Progesterone without balancing the other hormones? or did you take estrogen and even testosterone too? low dose? high? unbalanced or balanced? That would be my question.
Blaming yourself-- don't ... love yourself instead. You are worthy. Q
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You are kind, Quaatsi. I followed Dr. John Lee's recommendations to use a natural progesterone cream twice a day. I am trying not to blame myself for all the drinking, smoking, and all the other unhealthy things I put myself through. The truth is, even people who do everything right still get cancer sometimes.
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For every article ridiculing Bio identical hormone treatments there are others praising it. It is very hard to know which camp has it right. All I DO know for a fact is that I have both a sister and a sister in law who have been using Bio identicals for years and both say that it changed their lives. My sister in law was THE moodiest person ever. You never knew who you were going to be talking to...the crazy one who would bite your head off for no reason, or the super happy one. She was introduced to a fancy Beverly Hills doctor many years ago...I'm thinking it's been about twelve...his name is Dr. Uzzi Reiss (spelling my be wrong). He fully tested her hormones and prescribed what she needed. She would now NEVER give up her hormones. Ever. And I for one am thankful because she's a much nicer person to be around.
I, myself, have recently decided to see an alternative dr regarding my menopausal issues. She, too, is a proponent of bio identicals. She knows I have BC...or had. She is not against giving me a safe version of estrogen...the protective of the 3 forms...but will not give me the more aggressive form. But until my blood tests are in I don't know what I truly need, what her plan of action will be, and if I'll be willing to follow it. Her belief is that I got cancer because my immune system is compromised, and that getting the toxins out of my life and getting my immunity top notch, is more important than my libido...or complete and utter lack thereof. Her focus is whole body health and I like that approach very much.
I was very fortunate in that my breast cancer was found very early. I've had a very easy time of it. Mastectomy went perfectly, TE fills were easy and uneventful, exchange surgery this past Tuesday went perfectly. No chemo or tamoxifen needed. I feel blessed. But they also just found a precancerous skin cancer on my arm...my body is betraying me. I feel like I need to be proactive at this time of my life and my regular doctors are not about prevention. In fact I saw my regular gyn before seeing the alternative doctor and asked her if she would run a full hormone panel for me. She embarrassingly said that she's not sure what that would include but would order what she knew to order. Sad that a gyn only knows to order plain estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, and TSH. And though I have tried, my doctors refuse to check my vitamin & mineral levels. Really?? So, until medical doctors step out of their big pharma foggy thinking, it's imperative that we take our health into our own hands. We are all going to die at some point, that's a given, but to me quality of life is far more important than quantity. If I decide to take a protective estrogen and it ends up killing me later, but I have a wonderful life full of energy and vitality instead of pain and a miserable marriage because sex sounds like pure torture, it'll be worth it I think. We all have to choose what is best for us. We get one life to live, and I want to actually live mine to its fullest.
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LissaSue, I am much older than you (66) and sympathize totally. I have an integrative doc also and he is supporting me in a similar manner as you describe your doc here. I am taking bioidentical sublingual progesterone (skipping the liver). Most integrative docs will suggest the creams or the sublinguals as the oral will involve the liver where the estrogens can be metabolized into too much estrone or harmful estrogens (I take it you're using estriol only?..that might work the same). I HAVE to have it since my adrenals are too weak to take up the slack and produce necessary hormones (you do need at least some... especially for the immune system). I do not sleep without it...at all. The Lef.org site has a suggested list of supplements (included here at the bottom of this post) that can assist the body in metabolizing the estrogens into their least harmful forms: (DIM and iodine are the most necessary..calcium d gluconate also) Eat organic, purified water, no sugars or refined foods, keep to the lighter proteins (white meats/fish/eggs) and many fresh vegetables/fruits.I also have a PA (that works with my allopathic gynecologist) that is versed in saliva testing... a much more productive and in depth testing for hormones. She feels in her experience that the results are much more consistent with symptoms. If you don't have a supportive doc, I would suggest these (ZRT Labs) ..or...have them done yourself through canaryclub.org. I agree with you, quality of life comes first. We all have to find our own way on this journey. Sometimes I feel our theme song should be: "I did it my way".
http://www.lef.org/protocols/cancer/breast_cancer_les.htm
One more suggestion: have the MTHFR test done (its affordable: $56). It tests your methylation 'style' ...you may need extra B12/Folic acid...the methyl kinds.
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I've started to use progesterone per Dr. Lee's instructions and feel really good about this choice. Ever notice how no one who is ER+/PR+ is offered a "progesterone blocker" just estrogen blockers. I'm convinced Natural Progesterone is a protective and is needed to balance our estrogen. With breast cancer caused by estrogen dominance, there are 2 ways to achieve balance-one is to reduce estrogen ( this is what we are usually offered by our OCs and deal with all the things that happen when we are deprived of estrogen) the other is to increase progesterone. I'm going for the later.
I've been reading on here for a while and hope I don't get blasted for this choice. Time and time I've read of how women take Tamox and/or aromatose inhibitors and their BC still comes back (they offer no guarantees) yet women who choose not to take these substances are made to feel that if our BC comes back it is our fault. At 51 understand I have a lot of years ahead of me (hopefully) in which I could have a reoccurance, but that also means I could have a lot of years ahead of me to have to deal with health problems caused by Tamox and/or aromatose like heart disease (also deadly), blood clots and stroke (deadly) , osteoporosis (if not deadly, close) , sexual dysfunction (not ready to give it up). I'm going for the do no harm things: natural progesterone, more exercise, optimizing vitamin D, using DIM when my rads are done, continuing to eat a clean sugar and processed food free diet, eliminating xenoestrogens and toxic chemicals from my environment as best I can and mostly moving on. From what I can tell, once you are on tamoxifen or aromatose therapy you need to be closely monitored for side effects. My mother, who died 4 years after being diagnosed w BC NEVER stopped being a BC patient: chemo, surgery, rads, hormones, different hormones, more chemo. And even though she was "well" for about 2 of those years (no cancer, only dealing w side effects of her treatment) she was never able to move past this diagnosis and enjoy what was left of her life because not only were the side effects she experienced unpleasant, but there was always looming in the future yet another check-up or test. I'm just going to do it differently.
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Hi ladies
I have been surfing about different posts trying to find one that deals with HRT or the lack of. I have been on Cenestin for almost 20 years. I was told at the time I had my hysterectomy it was a more natural drug. I was having hot flashes every hour and migraines. I could not sleep and my hair was coming out. I did well on the Cenestin but when I got DCIS in 2012 my drs all went crazy about me being on it. A little more background I also have an autoimmune disease for the last 12 years that has forced me to be on a small dose the anti inflamatory drug prednisone. I have a bit of osteopena but the HRT has kept my bones from crumbling more. So after begging to stay on the HRT and having ER-/PR- results with my DCIS I was allowed to stay on it. Fast forward to last week. I agreed to wean off the HRT in the next year to see if I even had hot flashes any more because I am now 62. Went to the pharmacy to get my HRT and it was discontinued by the manufacturer. No pills. No pills in the USA any place. So I ran to my gyno and she said time to stop cold turkey. I have been off of them now for a week. I am a mess. Shaky, nauseated at times, joint pain all over my body, headaches and dry skin like a prune. I called her and begged so she gave me some vivelle dot patch HRT that is supposed to be more natural. My PCP does not want me to use them because I am very sensitive to adhesives. I broke out with contact dermititis after both my lumpectomy surgeries and my gallbladder surgery. Also if I start the patch and can not take it I have to detox again. So what to do. If it gets too bad I will probably try the darned patch. I am miserable.
Is there anyone here that stopped HRT cold turkey? How long did it take to balance out again?
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Bunkie, just wanted to say I was on vivelle dot, the patch, for years, after they discontinued estraderm. I was previously on that. I am not here to condone using estrogen or bash it. Just wanted to let you know it helped me in every way, when I was using it. But after my BC cropped up last summer, I had to stop using it. Not only was I afraid it was feeding my cancer, but my doctor refused to prescribe it. So cold turkey I went.
I also have an autoimmune disease and was on 5 mg. of prednisone a day. My doctor also wouldn't prescribe that any more. Talk about a double whammy. I understand exactly. (if you would like to private message me, feel free to).
So .. I know all about the hot flashes, bad moods, dry skin, aching joints, fatigue, etc. Being on estrogen helped all of that, too. I would say it eventually evened out a little, after a few months. But I was all wrapped up in scans, surgery, appointments, etc. and had bigger problems than going estrogenless or without prednisone. So maybe I didn't notice as much. I don't know. A lot of that is almost a blur.
NOW I am on femara, which is taking what little estrogen away that I had left in my body .. and it seems to make things worse than just going off of estrogen.
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To CCJJ: What have you done since your last post in 2012 about the BHRT. I am done with chemo and about to go to surgery to remove tumor was 4+cm now after chemo less than 1cm. I want to start back on my BHRT felt so good before the cancer I want that back. I fear if I don"t use BHRT I won't be married any more I can't stand myself so I can't expect my husband to like me. I have withdrawn from ALL friends and family. I hate my life now.
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Hello All! It's been a long time since I've been here. There is a surprising feeling of 'home', as I spent so much time here. As before, I'm learning more here than anywhere else I've looked! So can you help me? Here is my hx: IDC, stage 2, grade 3, ER,PR Positive, bilateral mast with reconstruction, clear nodes.
I had a hysterectomy from repeated polyps after Tamoxifen for 4 years...something no one told me was a side effect. Arimidex was the devil so I said enough. No more. I'm 11 years NED this past June.
Now, I'm 56 and curious and WANTING to take bioidentical hormones. I'm exhausted all the time. Terrible sleep. Sluggish. ZERO libido, which shocks my younger self.
Menopause really does suck. They were right! I take some sleep supplements that were working well-got me off Ativan: Melatonin, L-Theanine, Kavinace. But they aren't working now. I also went against my MO advice and AM taking pregesterone 5mg I think. But can I do more? Can I take a combo Estrogen/Progesterone identical hormone being positive for both? Can we NEVER EVER have estrogen? I've been avoiding soy even for 11 years. Now I just want to feel good. I'm not trying to be 100. I believe in quality vs quantity and I know I'm not making the most of mine with the way things are now.
Anyone on estrogen after ER pos cancer? (I can almost hear the gasps out there now!)
Thanks, ya'll.
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This is a topic that is seared into my head.....hormone therapy and cancer. It forever changed my life in the late 90's.
My maternal grandmother who I loved dearly had breast cancer in the late 80's...mostly IDC. She had a mastectomy. She was on tamoxifen for approx 7 yrs which was a common length of time to be on tamoxifen back then for BC in the 80's.
My gma went off tamoxifen after the 7 yrs passed and by the late 90's was feeling awful. Menopausal stuff I think. She told her gyn she wanted to be back on hormones. He said he wouldn't recommend that because she had previously had breast cancer. She told him she didn't care, she wanted to go on them. And told him she wanted to go on hormones. He wrote the rx for premarin I believe...not sure if she took anything else.
Within months after starting back on hormones her cancer was back and then mets to her lungs..... she passed around a year after starting on hormones. Did this bring her cancer back or would it have returned anyway? I don't know. But all I know is it DID return by chance after she started taking the hormones.
I won't ever take any hormones...natural or not....after seeing what my gma went through. Just my experience in my family. I have taken bioidentical/natural hormones in the past....not really long term. But I won't ever take them again. Just my experience....I am not telling people what they should do. Just sharing what I will not be doing.
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She took the hormone (premarin, horse urine)well known to contribute to breast cancer. Bioidenticals are different. Molecularly the same as the hormones we produce ourselves. Who believes women make hormones that give them cancer? Not me
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Kay you are probably right. I just am not willing to take any chances at all. Some people have even said that soy can mess around with your hormones. Some are in the pro soy camp and others in the no soy camp. I have decided to just not eat much of it. I agree bioidenticals are better for us perhaps. I used to take some. But have just decided for now not to take them.
On a side note: my quality of life is great without adding hormones and without soy. I do occasionally eat it. But overall just stay away from it. And Quality of life is just fine. 😉it’s just my choice. Whats right for me may not be right for others. That’s ok.
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I was DX with breast cancer just 3 weeks shy of my 32nd birthday. As you can see, I 100% went against the grain in stopping chemo, herceptin(had 7 months worth), and declined anti hormonals.
I still eat my tofu, enjoy soy sauce, and began taking DHEA.
I am quality over quantity. I hope I have many years left of life, but I intend for the time I have left to be QUALITY.
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Dear Altea;
Dear Atell;
😊I am always requested my hormone levels from all my oncologist I’ve had I think three now and they all were compliant and I never got a problem with the insurance paying for it now I’m on Medicare and disabled from breast cancer and the Cancer travel to the brain before they found it. I would highly recommend that you get one and the doctor all they have to do is order it when you go to other estrogen test they may not be reliable they may be through saliva! I’m totally well today but use alternative methods to keel myself well . I use broccoli compound to keep estrogen lower . 13c
I was able To go off AI after my estrogentest was so low without them . Oddly estrogen isn’t the only thing that drives er positive be. But you can persist and they’ll do it for you !
Good luck
Healing to you
Marcia
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I had a special test done (urine) for hormone levels through a functional medicine doctor. Some of my medical team including my MO are supporting estrogen cream vaginally as well as testosterone cream vaginally for my symptoms and deficiencies. My MO stated there are studies that support the body doesn't uptake the estrogen cream. But because of the testosterone and just out of caution my doctor will be running blood tests to make sure my estrogen and testosterone levels don't go up. If they do then we change amount of med.
I haven't started yet on this protocol yet. I want my breast doctors approval too. My MO has approved tho.
I’m understandably nervous tho about this
I'm not telling anyone else to do the above info but I'm considering the advice of my functional medicine doctor.
I'm wondering how many women who have had breast cancer safely use these products without recurrence
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has anyone used testosterone cream safely without Br cancer returning
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Dear heart
I am going to give a little advice here on bio identical hormones back in 2005 for seizures that developed after menopause I had very low estrogen. I was was given a balance of estrogen and progesterone and it caused a severe stage four cancer. I only lived because I went through stage three treatment and then I discovered on my own but I had a brain tumor while in the ER. The slight amount of estrogen I was given did not completely address the hormone issue that I was having and it caused a wild occurrence of breast cancer later confirmed by biopsy and mastectomy. As well as brain surgery .
You can safely try CBD oil which is a nice way to get a Phpto estrogen and it cured my seizures and it also works in harmony with tamoxifen. Please feel free to contact me as I am offering a five week course in lifestyle changes that promote wellness I am Marcia M and I will be happy to explain more in an email.
All the best
Marcia M
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Hi Marcia:
Can you possibly tell me the type of estrogen cream you were put on? There are three types and one of them has been run in studies so says my MO that it is safe to take. So I am just curious about that. I am using Testosterone cream right now. It is a really super low dose. I already have made all the lifestyle changes I need to make. I am suuuuuper healthy eater and exercise don't drink dont smoke no drugs. I have a lifestyle med doctor who is following me and my MO and breast surgeon so I am in good hands. But thank you for the info.
Have a wonderful weekend!
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Hello Dear
As I stated before none of them are at all safe to take. I found out the hard way. If yo uare sensitive ot estogen or progesterone then it isnt a good idea. I m sorry to be frank but i have to! Susanne summers is all wrong!!!. A Vegan diet and juicing is what i would do after doing the tamoxifen . If no to drugs try hemp oil. It is a phytoestrogen. I don't have the RX anymore as I say it caused cancer. At one time is was 50/50. then switched to 90/10 to progesterone estrogen.
I don't think you would want it , cancer, back so I can't stress enough just how dangerous it is to try. Best wishes dear,
Marcia
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Maria thank you for sharing your experience. No worries I understand. I’m having my hormones tested again. Im not planning to go on estrogen.
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Hi dear
Oh well that's a Reief to hear. I had heard that some progesterone was safe . My first thought was that made sense then remembered that I was also on a fractional dose of progtetone and therefore wouldn't be a good idea .
You can look into CBD oil . It's a safe and well studied supplement legal now it's blocking the pd1 receptor meaning it also appears to block breast cancer ! I'm a stage 4 10 year survival story . My oncologist said it's studied not enough .Best wishes
Marcia
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Marcia,
Can you provide some links to the studies you mentioned on CBD? As for legality, in CA, CBD derived from hemp is legal and can be fought just about anywhere. CBD derived from cannabis is only sold in dispensaries, even the products which contain no THC.
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