CONSTIPATION--problem with so many of our drugs
Comments
-
I had a cup of Senna tea (called Smooth Move tea at health food store) and the next morning-sure as shit it worked. Seriously-it was effective for me. It's kinda earthy tasting but palatable.
(bump--our poop humor has been constipated lately...)
0 -
Ellelou. soooooo funny..............
Judi. Girl, if folks had a real clue what you have been through for twenty odd years. They would be thankful they weren't you. Well you survived it and are onto a better life.
Had a virus the last few days, Chest, head, sinus, body, but almost normal again. YAY
0 -
NEWS FLASH NEW FORM TWO BOXES DOWN-completed3/13/2016
April Okay I'm now back in working order. Let's get to your problem. Need to find that form. The irony is I made the form for April25 I believe, thinking it was you. But we shall see, maybe it was you. be back in a flash.Well, it wasn't what I was looking for, but maybe it's better. It was from back in 2014. It's a composite of questions & Plan of treatments to ask the doc about. Going to link Page 12 in the topic box b/c this is the second time the info meet the need.
Feb 4, 2016 01:14PM - edited Feb 4, 2016 01:17PM by sas-schatzi
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/6/topics/781867?page=12
This post was to Minus two on page 12. Lot's of things covered. Constipation plan mention half way down.
Suggest visiting page 12, some helpful posts.
Feb 5, 2014 07:16PM sas-schatzi wrote:
OH MY Minus Two I'm so sorry , I haven't been watching. God lord I hope you didn't rupture something.
First thoughts, check in with your doc...reason you have had a new onset change. I'll think or try to think of what to ask and plan. But I do think wityh any new onset change the safe practice is a doc check in. In this case if you have a GI doc that would be good. But your PCP is good to.I would go first to my PCP, but I also call her Saint PCP. I don't necessarily think MO's are good for this b/c they may not cover all the basics. I'll type this so you can cut and paste or print and fill in the answers to take with you for doc visit
History of present problem: New onset constipation
When did it start?
Description of stools ?
How often? How many days between stools?
Abdominal Pain with stools?
How much liquid do you drink a day?(take a couple of days and actually measure)
Location of pain?
Does pain in abdomen remain after stools?
What cause you to finely evacuate? (you've continued taking colace, but if you don't take it you have large hard stools--did I get that right?)
other things used to promote evacuation?(prunes)
Physical description of stools?
Change in medications?when?what?
Pain meds? Change? How many per day?
Talk to PCP about following plan:
1. Miralax daily.
2.Stewed prunes/apricots warm with some lemon in am..
3.Probiotics-tsp to a tablespoon a day for a week.
4. Colace PRN
5. Emergency plan: meaning what do you do if your regular plan isn't working and you need to poop.
6. Develop a bowel retraining plan: basically using the 1-4 working it through overtime until your bowel functions again on it's own.
This plan is a mix of recommendation from the gastroenterology guidelines--miralax daily. Stewed prunes or apricots-- common SUCCESSFUL method here. Warm water and lemon another common plan----so if you put them together it may make it all come out in the end very smoothly and easily
Probiotics, something may have disrupted the good bacteria that you aren't aware of. Colace the common doc go to med, but you want to wean away from all drugs eventually.Have an emergency plan i.e. no BM in ____days what can you use? My go to drug is a bottle of magnesium citrate, but the aftermath is the squirts for a few days. Sometimes unpredictable. For me severe constipation can occur after I've used oxy for a couple of days when I have a bone/joint/ muscle flare.
The key here is you 've involved your doc. Reread the first page on my posts about diverticulosis/itis. The doc is going to ask questions to assure you haven't got something going on. You said the thread is wonderful---tells me you've read it. Many wonderful ideas here. If there's something from here you like, add it to the plan above.
What I like about walking into the doc's office with a plan, is it causes them to focus on what you are saying, They can see it in writing, this further focuses their attention. They then can say yay or nay to each item.
You're then able to leave the office with a clear plan with all the bases covered. I'll cut and paste this to you in a PM. If you need me in the future and I haven't responded, please, PM.
0 -
April it was you, you were here in Aug, of 2015. I made this form for you but you didn't stay. I have used the form since though. Take a look. If you can C&P into a box and then fill in the answers. That will give us allot to work with. Don't do this form today Sunday. I'm going to incorporate the list from the previous post into the second post. I was pretty consistent, but not perfect. Always striving for perfect LOL.
Well combined tree boxes one from the Pain and Other Things thread. You will find the new questionnaire in the next box. Thanks for the opportunity to work on this April.
Aug 7, 2015 11:43AM - edited Aug 7, 2015 03:36PM by sas-schatziHi April, Long time no see
Hate it when they're is trouble in the end. They're is several parts to your question. Fill in the blank , cut& paste to another box.What do you take for a pain med?________________ How often do you take the pain med?__________
Last dose?______
Have you changed your diet within the last two weeks?_______________________________________________
Do you know how many glasses of fluids you drink a day?________________Coffee/tea?soda?_______________
Antibiotics within the last 3months/ what/why?______________________________________________________
Did you start any new meds within the last month?__________________________________________________
What meds do you take?_______________________________________________________________________
Any Left side abdominal pain?__________? Abdominal pain elsewhere?___________Any bloating?____________
Any change in stool color?____________________________________________________
Have you noticed any streaking of blood on the hard stool?____________________________________________
When you were taking pain meds how often would you evacuate?_______________________________________
What's your immune status?_____________________________________________________________________
Do you have grandkids? (just kidding)
I did a review after the thread was going awhile(around page 8. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the greatest success was with the stewed prunes and apricots and other things. Would love to say they're is gin in the recipe like that arthritis recipe, but they're isn't. Take a look at page 10, I did a review of laxatives and stool softner's. They're stool softner's/ laxatives, and combo drugs. You'll see in reading that lot's of folks use Miralax. I have concerns about Miralax b/c of micro-absorption, but it does have it's pace in the constipation algorhytm
IMPORTANT: this is a review. It will help Identify if you have had a new onset condition change that will help you decide if you need to go to the doc. Not every episode of constipation needs a physician look, but a condition change does. I can't suggest what you take. sassy
0 -
Past history gives perspective to the present problem. Do you have a past history of constipation & how was that resolved?
History of present problem: New onset constipation
When did constipation start?
Physical description of stools? Hard, color, smell, blood streaked, blood in stool versus streaked,
How many days between stools?
Have you kept a chart/record?
How much liquid do you drink a day?(take a couple of days and actually measure)
Have you changed your diet within the last three weeks?
Are you experiencing abdominal pain that you associate with constipation? Abdominal Pain with stools? Crampy. gripping, achy, left sided, right sided, entire abdomen
Does pain in abdomen remain after pooping?
What causes you to finely evacuate?
Other things used to promote evacuation?
Has they're been a change in medications in the last month----when & what?
Pain meds--- identify all by name?
Has they're been a change frequency of taking the pain med within last 3 weeks?
How many pills per day?
How often do you take the pain med?
Last dose?
While taking pain meds what was your routine evacuation time .i.e. daily, every other day etc?
Have Antibiotics been prescribed within the last 3 months and for what reason?
Do you take Probiotics?
List all herbals that you use?
List names of all other drugs on your list(dose not needed)?
List chemo meds if currently in treatment?
What is your immune status?
Is there anything else going on related to constipation that I haven't asked about?
IMPORTANT: this is a review. It will help Identify if you have had a new onset condition change that will help you decide if you need to go to the doc. Not every episode of constipation needs a physician look, but a condition change does. I can't suggest what you take. sassy
Talk to PCP about following plan:
1. Miralax daily.
2.Stewed prunes/apricots warm with some lemon in am..
3.Probiotics-tsp to a tablespoon a day for a week.
4. Colace PRN
5. Emergency plan: meaning what do you do if your regular plan isn't working and you need to poop.
6. Develop a bowel retraining plan: basically using the 1-4 working it through overtime until your bowel functions again on it's own.
This plan is a mix of recommendation from the gastroenterology guidelines--miralax daily. Stewed prunes or apricots-- common SUCCESSFUL method here. Warm water and lemon another common plan----so if you put them together it may make it all come out in the end very smoothly and easily
Probiotics, something may have disrupted the good bacteria that you aren't aware of. Colace the common doc go to med, but you want to wean away from all drugs eventually.Have an emergency plan i.e. no BM in ____days what can you use? My go to drug is a bottle of magnesium citrate, but the aftermath is the squirts for a few days. Sometimes unpredictable. For me severe constipation can occur after I've used oxy for a couple of days when I have a bone/joint/ muscle flare.
The key here is you 've involved your doc. Reread the first page on my posts about diverticulosis/itis. The doc is going to ask questions to assure you haven't got something going on. You said the thread is wonderful---tells me you've read it. Many wonderful ideas here. If there's something from here you like, add it to the plan above.
What I like about walking into the doc's office with a plan, is it causes them to focus on what you are saying, They can see it in writing, this further focuses their attention. They then can say yay or nay to each item.
You're then able to leave the office with a clear plan with all the bases covered. I'll cut and paste this to you in a PM. If you need me in the future and I haven't responded, please, PM.
0 -
Cuddy, brought your question forward. Haven't been feeling well , but now on the mend and would like to try to help. Your situation is unique here. It hasn't been discussed only tangentially. They're was a discussion of whether Senna could be addicting? What you are referencing is the intentional use of laxatives and diuretics for weight control. Not unusual for adolescents and young adults to get erroneous information from each other, do something , and end up with a latter problem. Sorry, it happened to you.
What is the name of the laxative that you took. It will help with my research.?
Mar 8, 2016 06:24PM cuddyclothes wrote:
I'm glad I found this thread! I'm 59, and I have suffered from chronic constipation since I was a child. When I was 20-21, I abused laxatives and water pills to keep my weight down. That really busted my system. I had surgery last July and radiation through December. My MO remembered that I had mentioned being constipated at my last visit months ago. When my RO first interviewed me and was going down the list of illnesses, he asked, "Constipation?" "Usually," I said.
It's really bad. Days go by with nothing or next to nothing. I'm eating fruits and veggies, drinking water, etc. I need to go back to taking Metamucil every night. Bleech. Also back to cereal and prunes. Raisins don't do it.
0 -
Hi Sas, yes, I had a brief time of dry hard stool this past summer. Forgot all about that! I tried stool softners and they gave me cramps so tried taking a tsp of olive oil twice a day and that worked. Prunes were not my favorite so was not so high on those..lol I have since grown more fond of them but still not in love. I don't even like their cousin the plum all that much to be honest.
This newest bout with this issue is much worse than my short lived time this past August. I drink a LOT of fluids and always have so I am not sure what changed other than the letrozole. I eat fiber/veggies/fruit (although less fruit than veggies for sure) and I eat a bag of popcorn a few times a week ( I know, people say microwave popcorn causes cancer but what doesn't these days? smh)
Ok, will do the questionnaire later..thanks!
0 -
UGH down for the count again
0 -
SAS - are you ok? What do you mean down for the count? Hope you are ok............
0 -
Hi lily, three in the house with a virus. It's kicking our butts. It's been 7 days for me. Thanks for asking
0 -
Sas, I hope you feel better. That's why I have a shot of tequila a day .... keeps the doctor away and I don't get sick!
0 -
Plus Judi is one happy girl when she eats her breakfast
LOL...xoxo
As for me, I am doing much better since I started Miralax. YAY for that one! Thanks to all who mentioned it!
0 -
Ha, ha, thanks for the chuckle April. I love it and yes I do eat my breakfast after I make my bed. We read that making your "bed makes you happy"! Like really!
0 -
Good one April, beautiful timing. Glad the Miralax has worked for you. if you happen upon anything else that works, please, post.
0 -
0 -
hahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
0 -
Good one Zills!!!
I get a colonoscopy and hemorrhoids banded next week.
0 -
Cuddy, I guess I don't need to know the laxative that you used, in order to get started. Ex-lax was a common one. The question you have raised is "Does the abuse of laxatives early in life have and impact late in life?" I did some research on Senna a couple years back. I found that long term use of Senna can be associated with the loss or reduction of haustral folds in the large colon. I'll find the page eventually and link it here. Loss of haustral folds lend toward constipation b/c the folds catch the stool and help it from moving in the wrong direction as the muscle layer of the colon contracts to propel stool forward.
My thought re: your scenario is first your GI doc should be able to tell you if your haustral folds are present.
If you haven't had life long constipation after the laxative abuse, then your present constipation problem is most likely due to present day drugs.
But I was able to find info related to problems created by laxative abuse. The articles reference a thing called Lazy Bowel. That's what I'm getting into reading about now. There are some other post abuse conditions that can be present after the abuse period. They reference immediate years after the abuse, not 30-40 years later. I contacted the National Eating Disorders Association a 501c3 group. But they are mostly non technical or not as technical as what we want right now. The below is from their web site. The last point is the area of concern for you. Sorry if this is the first that you've heard there is a colon cancer risk. But better to know than not know. If you haven't been followed by a GI doc with regular colon screening starting at a younger age, then it's something you should put on your agenda to get done. Going to close this out and concentrate on Lazy Bowel in the next(few)post.
"Health Consequences of Laxative Abuse:
- Disturbance of electrolyte and mineral balances. Sodium, potassium, magnesium, and phosphorus are electrolytes and minerals that are present in very specific amounts necessary for proper functioning of the nerves and muscles, including those of the colon and heart. Upsetting this delicate balance can cause improper functioning of these vital organs.
- Severe dehydration may cause tremors, weakness, blurry vision, fainting, kidney damage, and, in extreme cases, death. Dehydration often requires medical treatment.
- Laxative dependency occurs when the colon stops reacting to usual doses of laxatives so that larger and larger amounts of laxatives may be needed to produce bowel movements.
- Internal organ damage may result, including stretched or "lazy" colon, colon infection, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, and, rarely, liver damage. Chronic laxative abuse may contribute to risk of colon cancer.(emphasis mine)"
- https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/older-popu...
0 -
This article clearly defines Lazy Bowel and Sluggish Bowel.(stretched). I'm placing the definitions here for easy review.
"Lazy bowel syndrome is a term that has been coined to describe constipation following the long term and/or excessive use of laxatives. It is a rebound effect (secondary action) of using these drugs but may also just be an exacerbation of a pre-existing problem. Lazy bowel syndrome is commonly seen in those with certain types of eating disorders, particularly anorexia nervosa and bulimia, where laxative use is seen as a means of purging and used in excess even if the person did not suffer with constipation. Subsequent cessation of laxative use reveals a severe constipation.
Sluggish Bowel
With a sluggish bowel, the defecation reflexes and colonic motility are impaired in constipation. This means that the stretching of the colon wall associated with distension does not elicit the reflexes that are responsible for propelling the colonic contents or relaxing the internal anal sphincter. Defecation reflexes associated with food entering the stomach or chyme in the duodenum may also not stimulate mass movements in the colon under normal circumstances.
Eventually the accumulation of fecal matter stretches the colon wall excessively. This degree of stimulation elicits the natural reflexes to promote colonic motility and defecation. The distended colon (megacolon) loses its ability to create a propulsive force of sufficient magnitude for an easy passage of feces leading to straining. At this point, the prolonged time period during which the feces remained in the colon leads to over-absorption of water from the colon. Therefore dry hard feces are eventually evacuated from the bowel with much difficulty."
http://www.healthhype.com/lazy-bowel-syndrome-and-treating-sluggish-bowel-movements.html_____________________________________________________
Lazy Bowel. This article is written for the layperson. Cabot Health does manufacture products. I'm not promoting their products. It's not just that it's against Terms Of Service of BCO, anything they say would have to have Evidenced Based Research behind it. That being said, this singular web page has a common sense approach to bowel care. I placed it here b/c it has a direct link to Lazy Bowel.
https://www.cabothealth.com.au/is-a-lazy-bowel-letting-you-down/
0 -
Cuddy, this is a link to a GI practice that has a lot of teaching info on their web site. Of particular interest is the well balance approach to IBD. IBD is a recognized outcome of laxative abuse.
Has any of this been helpful? Too much? Where would you like to go from here?
0 -
Cuddy, basically, what I've learned here looking at the subject is unless you had a life long problem with IBD, Stretched colon(mega colon), Lazy colon, then the likely hood of a connection to what happened as a 20 year old is a stretch(pun). Doesn't mean that someone wouldn't make the comment that it did b/c it's an easy out. If that happens ask what studies they feel explain the subject. If they can't quote any EBR, then they are blowing it out their arse.
The older we get the lazier the colon gets. Just like every other muscle it doesn't function as well. Then add cancer drugs and drugs to counter cancer drugs s.e.'s , it's a wonder anything works.
0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F-jeIdQwKY
Appropriate to the topic
0 -
SAS - funny.
I fell & broke my arm in 4 places up by my shoulder when I went to see my son. The treatment is just immobilization for now to see if the bones knit. Finally off the morphine, but still taking Tramadol. Started Colace after a couple of days but now taking Senna w/Laxative. Things aren't moving because of the drugs, but also because I'm not eating much. I'm not sure how long I'll need the pain killers, but I'm guessing at least 4 weeks. There's always an exception for laxatives!!!
0 -
MT, Oh so sorry, I'm so with you, my left shoulder is in the 6th week post fall. For me it's a devastating injury b/c swimming the backstroke was my love in exercising. Full rotation for the backstroke, I see a bleak future, but not giving up.
I know you have been diligent in working to combat constipation. Now this. There are new drugs to help. We haven't studied them here. Now would be a good time.
I do suggest that you consider no meds every 48 hours, allow for a wear off of the drug effect on the colon i.e poop, with a hopeful movement. It's tough. Been living it since feb 3rd. Chit, it's always something. Girl love you. Have faith. You have overcome so much.
0 -
Please, not saying laxatives or anything that helps us to poop isn't playing an important role. Cuddy's concern of how what she experienced as a young 20 year old may be impacting her now is a real serious question. I may have not made my comment clear enough. Unless she had difficulty since that time, a slow down now cannot be connected to that previous time unless it is supported by evidence based research. I was hoping to give Cuddy enough information to counter someone "blaming" her for that previous laxative abuse, as to the causing of the present problem.
Medicine likes to blame. It's not a subject that is politically correct to go against the prevailing thought. I'm going against it. Loudly.
As we age, our body parts age. The colon is no different. Drugs are a known problem for causing constipation. Particularly narcotics. Chemo preventitives like the AI's and tamox are a serious problem too.
If a practitioner tries to tell Cuddy her present problem is related to her previous problem, that's an easy out for them. Rather than saying you have a 59 year old colon and you have drugs for treatment that have s.e.'s of constipation, so, we will deal with the present problem.
I rage at the new "Healthy Lifestyles" promulgation advertising that many cancer organizations have adopted over the last several years. The implication for us, is that we are to blame for our cancer. Obesity is a case in point. Not one study makes an absolute connection. It is surmised. It is the darling of those people that control information b/c they want us to be thinner. But it is NOT an absolute connection.
The study of the Microbiome is starting to come closer to the origin of disease problems, but it will be perhaps another decade or more before connections are made. Microbiome study is the most exciting study since the world was determined not to be flat and the earth wasn't the center of the universe.( being dramatic)
In a Pm, I gave Cuddy an example of my own family. A cousin who developed colon cancer was told that his cancer was caused by smoking. I suggested genetic family screening b/c 25(26 , I have lost count):53 blood relatives have cancer. Two generations. All traced to the paternal grandmother link. His sister that has a Masters in Nursing, said "Oh no, The doctors said it was smoking". Smoking may have been a contributing oncogenic factor, but genetics should be explored. Denied. Many of the 25 were not smokers, but no one is interested. DUH.
0 -
SAS - I didn't realize you were just ahead of me on this darn shoulder path, but I do remember reading about your swimming at one time. Full rotation is well down the road for me but I so understand your concern. Have you started PT yet? . For now - just tell me the pain gets less. I've never been a person to take drugs so I hate this tether to continuing pain.
0 -
Minus, as someone who has been taking pain killers for years without a break due to serious pain issues unrelated to BC, I had the only constipation of my life when taking tramadol! Plus, it did not provide much pain relief either. You were better off staying with the morphine and tapering down if you ask me.
My brief problem with this issue seems to have resolved with the Miralax and now with just making sure I get enough fiber and drink enough water (which I always did and still do) but boy was that awful! Hugs and hope that your shoulder heals well. I am dealing with a lot of shoulder pain that is very new and they have NO clue what is wrong with mine. It shows a bit of arthritis (which I have everywhere in my body as did my Mom and my grandmother) but lately it is very painful when I move a certain way. Ugh...always something.
Hope that your shoulder is better these days Sassy.
0 -
Sas
calling in on another problem. I have diagnosed myself with IBS. I have mucous in my very small
bowel movements and always feel like I have to move my bowels which then of course I am straining
and straining. Then of course it feels like I have hemmoroids which I have been taking suppositors. It is driving me crazy. Anything you can suggest? Really just feel like taking a good laxative like mIlk of magnesia tonight.
I really don't want to make an appt with the dr . Any ideas will be appreciated.
Thanks
Rosieo
0 -
Well - tried no meds for only 12 hours and was in extreme pain - and I'm one who can stand a LOT of pain. So much for the 48 hours!!! April - hope the docs can figure out your shoulder pain & suggest an appropriate tx.
0 -
MT & April thanks on the shoulder. It's not fully dx'd, but better than it was. 5th week saw the greatest reduction in pain. :0.
Sorry MT, that you had so much pain trying to interrupt to poop. I didn't have any choice. I either interrupted or didn't go. As soon as it happens, I popped a pill. Tramadol isn't even close as a great pain controller, but better than nothing. NSAIDs elevate my BP, so, I have to be real careful in taking them. But added Naproxyen with the tramadol after accomplishing the deed, get's me back to midrange pain. I love midrange, I'm used to it. DUH. Much better than 7-10. I finally broke down after 22 years and bought a solar system with new pool pump( just less than 7,000$) b/c swimming the backstroke was the one friendly exercise that didn't cause more harm. Needed to expand months of the year to be able to do this friendly exercise. It'll be more than a year before this shoulder is working again. OH well................MT the fractures heal in 6-8 weeks. The soft tissue, ligamnets, and tendons takes months and months and months and more months. But the thinking on stabilizing a humeral fracture is different than it used to be. For unknown reasons the humerus doesn't do well with plates and screws. Stabilizing the ligaments and tendons not much better. As a joint it's not very friendly once hurt---understatement. For me I keep telling myself it could be worse. It could be my dominate arm. Hope it's not your dominate arm? Hugs Chickie, I feel your pain.
0
