I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
Comments
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Thanks for being so kind ladies.
Crystalpalm, 'are you happy being like this' is a stupid question. It's really are you happy like this compared to ..... We did not choose to be breastless, but now that we are, we are making the individual decision that we are happiest with.
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Crystal-can't believe how socially inept your GYN must be to ask you that question!
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FernMF, I've had internal sonograms done for over five years. My right overy was the first to disappear and eventually my left overy did the same thing. My GYN said that was a good thing. He still does the internal sonogram every year. Now I'm in the phase, nothing better show up where they used to be.
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Well, I went to get my new accessories today. I mentioned that the bra felt like it was to close up my armpits but they all seemed to feel that way. I had some running around to do so didn't want to wear them inches they got uncomfortable while I was out. When I got home I put them on and realized I don't think it was the bra that was pushing on my armpit, I think it's the form. Do these triangles come in smaller triangles? I was only thinking about the cup size and didn't think to check out the size of the triangle. The form is what is pushing on that bit of fat just in front of the arm pit. Can you take these back for different a different size triangle?
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Linda-n3 - thanks for the welcome. I've been reading these posts since I was diagnosed (July 11, 2012) and believe that they keep me sane (somewhat) and on the right track - I never feel alone in this battle when I come to this site. My surgeon didn't ask if I was interested in reconstruction - or, if he did, the shock of being told "you have a little cancer" was too overwhelming to notice the offer. Nonetheless, I still would not personally want reconstruction. Some of my friends and co-workers comment that they'd have to have reconstruction if it were them, to feel "normal". I would drive myself crazy thinking that cancer was growing under the implant (I never felt a lump, neither did my surgeron - 4cm by the time I had surgery) and although it's a huge adjustment to have a mastectomy, I do feel normal. I find myself cracking jokes to make my co-workers more comfortable with me - I'd much rather they ask me questions about breast cancer than looking away with "that look" that tells me they don't know what to say. Regarding the seatbelt - I keep a soft fluffy fleece blanket in the car to pad my chest under the seatbelt. Take good care of yourself, relax and enjoy this holiday season. We all deserve that.
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Djustme, you are not stupid. What is stupid is sending you home from the hospital so early and without adequate instructions. What are people supposed to do if they don't have someone at home to take care of them? My doc kept me in the hospital 4 days, to make sure everything was healing properly and so he could send me home without drains.
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Thanks Momine. I stayed in the hospital overnight last year with the first mx, but of course that one went perfectly smoothly, other than the fact that I didn't really sleep that night due to noise in the hospital. So I didn't freak when they told me that this time they were sending me home. I got the impression that the surgeon didn't feel the same seriousness of a prophylactic mx vs a regular mx. The nurse that was discharging me was too busy yapping to another nurse instead of going over instructions with me. I found that in the summer, when my 75 year old mom had a hip replacement and was being discharged after just 3 nights in the hospital. I had to run around and find the head nurse to get the instructions I needed to take care of her at home. Otherwise we would have gone home without instructions. I'm always better at taking care of someone else than taking care of myself.
I have a question for a friend of mine who had her second mx in April 2012. She has been having a horrible recovery this time round. I think her boss pressured her into going back to work too early because summer is the busy season (we are both real estate law clerks). Anyway she now has this burning pain under her arm to the back of her shoulder blade. I know that Starak has described this and I have a similar problem from my first mx. But I don't know if it's the same thing because hers started a few months after the operation rather than soon after it. She is being sent for a bone scan and she is freaking out because the requisition reads that the purpose is to check if cancer has metastasized. Does anyone recall if their band of pain from the arm pit to the back started right away after surgery or a little later?
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djustme - I have that pain, but it hasn't been constant, off and on, from about 6 months after surgery.
My BS sent me home the same day as my MX w/ALD, and I live 90 miles away - I thought he was kidding, but nope!
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I could not return my foobs - I find that the side of the bras/camisoles I've purchased (expensive) all hit funny on my prophylactic side - (GEEZ) - and cause me discomfort - I am 7 months out . . . hope it'll go away - and I am learning to just go flat. Today I wore my "new" "more comfy" bra and forms - and it's noon - and I'm wanting to take them off. I MAY JUST DO THAT. Today, I didn't wear "camoflauge" clothing though, so IT WILL BE more obvious . . . BUT, comfort over obvious is becoming my mantra.
Djustme: You are not stupid about not knowing what to do . . and feeling badly enough that your brain didn't connect all the dots. I'm glad you are getting relief and hope the recovery from this set back goes VERY quickly. I do seem to have more discomfort/trouble with the prophylactic side - - WHAT'S UP WITH THAT???
I was in the hospital from surgery time (~ 11:30 a.m.) until about noon the next day. The floor was a "observation" floor - in less than 24 hours - not considered "admitted" . . . still cost $24,000 to my insurance company for that LESS THAN ONE DAY.
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Fern, It sure is wrong of these places to give us sucha short "return" window. I am aggravated enough to not go back, that is for sure. Once ytou find what you like, mail order is a better way to go because they allow returns (check it out first). TLC has an excellent return policy.
I do have the same problems, tremendous discomfort when I wear a bra and foobs. A cami helps me, especially if it does not have a back band...and wearing a bigger bra than you need helps. For example according to the charts I would take a medium cami, but I order xl size.
I have not yet found a bra I can wear for more than a few hours, but I can make it all day in the camis...not with silicon though, I wear microbeads or memory foam (First form)...
I am 2 years out on the one side, and felt anything against it to be intolerable for about a year.
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I have been traveling and unable to post. Arrived at friends' house last night. Will be back once the initial frenzy of activity has ended and I have some private time.
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Thanks Crystal . . I am 7 months out from surgery. The oncologist says that is NOT enough time for complete healing of tissue/nerves. (I've often wondered how the medical world can do "nerve sparing" surgery for prostrate cancer patients, but NO thought process as to how to spare we BMX patients from total nerve removal/maiming.) The elastic band and the top of the foob are my irritants . . . The "store" I go to (the only one within 150 miles) didn't have any microfiber foobs to touch/feel/try. The store owner said "they don't keep their shape" and dismissed them as not appropriate. I was "too young". She also said the brand name foobs I bought are the "lightest" of their type. They are NOT lightweight. I have the most recent bra purchase on, with foobs, with added soft elastic on the bottom, and am at work. I am about ready to TAKE them off, even though I am not in clothing to "camoflauge" the area. Part of me JUST DOESN'T CARE - comfort over appearance . . . . not sure how brave I'll be, or how uncomfortable I'll get by end of day. 3 hours to go on the work shift. . .
xxoo
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Just an update - I saw my surgeon today and he decided to open up part of the incision and manually remove as much of the blot clots as he could from under it, right then under local anaesthetic. It was very weird being awake and carrying on a conversation while he was doing this. He says he's only had 4 patients this ever happened to, but past experience tells him that this will help it heal faster than just waiting for the body to reabsorb the blood clots. If I left it, I may have blood trickling from the drain hole for a couple months, preventing the hole from closing and leaving it at risk for infection. I will see him again in 10 days and get my pathology results.
FernMF, I think the fitters push the silicone and bras because is it is the most expensive option. They don't seem to care if it's comfortable for us - they probably figure that we will just keep buying stuff until we find comfort. I don't think they realize that the longer it takes to find a comfortable option, the more likely we are to become comfortable with just staying flat. I plan to stay flat when I go back to work in January and I don't plan to hide the flatness anymore. I will let you know how that goes.
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Djustme- yeah on your decision to stay flat. The more of us that do it, the more emboldened (love that word) other women will be to go flat.
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DJustme - so glad you were seen. Makes sense. Blood's a great medium for growing bugs.
Crystal - what a way of asking you that question that was incredibly laden with the practitioner's own values. Really unprofessional. I guess some of it could be tonality, things that can't come through in email, but the words themselves don't seem as neutral as they could be. Are you happy with that doc? I get ticked with docs very easily, being in the field. On the other hand, I know a good one when I find one and am a great patient.
Fern - I have wondered the same thing about "nerve sparing." My intercostobrachial is competely gone. Now it's possible mine was encased in tumor, I stay away from too much detail like that about my own "case," but I'm sure there are a lot of them that are innocent bystanders. I don't 'have a lot of faith in the nerve sparing prostatectomies. The results I've seen are an improvement, but they still have way to go.
Mellie - I listened to Matthew Sanford. Already knew of Brene Brown. Sanford was interesting. So much of his talk was about mind/body, and what I found myself wondering, "what if the body is gone?" It said he works with veterans, so I wonder what his thoughts are about people who have had amputations. I feel so sad thinking my breasts went to medical waste, probably incinerated somewhere. It just seems so different than what he went through, and learning a language of subtlety. I have lost the other side of any language.
Personally, my own life has sucked for a few days. I have cellulitis, a complication of my lymphedema, and it has made me REALLY sick. High fevers, nausea, some pain. Here for once, I am thankful for a lot of numbness because the brightest red spots are numb. I'm avoiding hospitalization because my cancer center can do IV meds in the infusion room on weekends now, Yay. I got changed to Vancomycin because I had gram positive cocci growing in my blood cultures and wasn't responding to the first drug, ceftriaxone. So I likely have a resistant beastie, like MRSA. There's a ton of MRSA where I work, so it wouldn't be a surprise. My daughter is very obviously upset that I'm back in bed and going to the Cancer Center. She dragged out all the "mom has cancer" books and this morning pretended to nurse on the uninvolved side of my chest while I read to her. Seemed to help, was very snuggly. I totally don't get the push to wean so early in this country. Look at non-human primates. They nurse a long time. When my daughter was forced to stop at three, she was really traumatized. Until I started chemo, she sucked on my arms. I didn't feel uncomfortable letting a 5 year old who is seriously anxious about what's going on suck on my chest today.
She's a fun, smart, sweet little girl. A little shy, but not disablingly so. Funny, caring. Likes to make cards for people. Likes animals. Normal.
Edited a couple times for typos
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hi all- i will be joining all you sisters, i have had a masecotmy already on cancerous side, went through the entire yr doing recon, failed miserably, now im doing masectomy proph on other side Feb 13th.
does anyone have pics of them wearing normal clothes with no forms?
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There is a pic of me at my son's wedding on page 43. I was soooo comfortable...left the girls at home.
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I have been out and about flat. I have been to our Friday night pizza place where every one knows me and what's going on. Several of the guys quietly gave me the thumbs up sign. I thought that was nice. I even stopped into work briefly on Friday. No one really says anything or even seem to notice and I was a DD. I got a pair of foobs but only to use as accessories for those times when you want to dress I plan in being comfortable.
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Hi to all,
I haven't been here for a bit, it has taken me much time to catch up. DJustme, glad you saw the doc and hope things improve quickly fo ryou.
MT1 I have been a fan of Brene brown's since before this journey. Her talk on vunerability just speaks to me so loudly and continues to do so especially now. I was fortunate to see her speak in Boston at the Mass Conference for women in Boston on Thursday. For those of you who haven't haven't listened to her, take the time.
I had a UMX, so going without is a bit akward but I often do, especially when I am at home on the weekends. During the winter a sweater and scarf work really well. Comfort is my mantra. When folks ask if I will have reconstruction, my resposne - no elective surgery for me, generally folks get that and that is really my reasoning. I do think about going back and having the left side removed to be balanced and then I think the h*** with anyone who has a problem with how I look. I do mourn the change in my body and it can still , almost 9 months later, take my breath away when I take the time to really look.
Now that I am feeling better, getting back to my "typical"life I think about the dating thing and not sure if or how I will feel comfortable venturing into that arena. I am 58, have been separated for 2 years and will move forward with the divorce this winter. Health issue for both of us have delayed things for a bit. I would like to have that special someone in my life but do think alot about how someone will respond. And I know the right person will be OK with all, but taking that risk - huge and back to Brene's vunerability talk.
Wish all a great weekend.
Be well and thank you for listening to my rant!
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Nice to have you join us redninrah! There are actually several pictures linked or posted throughout this thread. Starak posted some links around page 36 of pictures of her. I actually have gone foob free with just one breast for the past year, mostly by wearing layers - sweater sets; cowl neck tops with a cami or lightweight top underneath. I will go completely flat once I'm back on my feet from this mx, which I am expecting to be much easier than lopsided. While at work I see clients most days. One of my initial problems was that with nothing inside the tops, they are sometimes too low, meaning you have to be careful bending down so people can't see down your tops. I solved that problem by taking up the tops at the shoulder seams to make the neck higher or tighter or adding a couple little tucks with hand stitches. you will find lots of tips from all of the ladies throughout the thread. Pip57 has some back around page 34 or 35 as well. Also tips & pictures from breastfree.org or another thread 'wardrobe pics for boobless days'.
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Redinrah: In answer to your photo question.
First here are two of me, front and side. Not one of my better days but then we all have those days.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/starak_/8080036543/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/starak_/8080019384/in/photostream/
One I absolutely love is Koo Stark, who I "think" was once a girlfriend of Prince Andrew.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/17/article-0-0224CF97000005DC-967_233x412_popup.jpg
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_02/koostarkMOS230607_228x340.jpg
Linda Ellerbee
http://www.banderasnews.com/0703/images/vallartanights6.jpg
Threads on BCO:
Wardrobe pics for boobless days
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/82/topic/737036?page=16#idx_460
The Flat Look vs Prosthesis (with pics)
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/82/topic/610613?page=10#idx_279
On the threads you will have to go through tons of pages as some photos are mixed in here and there.
Barbara
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Granted she is not actually "flat" but I have always thought of Sandra Bullock as stunningly beautiful and in these photos she is frankly not all that much less flat than some of us.
http://aminamichele.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Sandra-Bullock.jpg
http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/8000000/Sandra-Bullock-sandra-bullock-8073508-1024-768.jpg
Nice to see that even in the superficial ridiculously nit-picking world of Hollywood, it is possible for a minimally endowed woman to be seen as gorgeous and to be hugely successful. In my corner of the world where I do not have to live in the public eye, it gives me even more permission to be proudly a little more flat than she.
Barbara
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I can't remember if I have posted here since my Surgery on Tuesday. I feel good, drains are the worst part. I also feel good about my decision for no recon. I haven't said much to many of my friends about it just family which all supported my decision my husband was totally on board with the decision.. But here goes my rant. I am so tired of people saying to me " Oh just think when this is all over you will have new Perky Boobs!" I just don't say a word.. My mother in law called me and told me how proud she was of me that I didn't have the TE's put in but then preceded to tell me I am too young (51) to not have recon after Chemo. I just quietly listened..
Hope you all have a great Sunday.
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Carlads, FWIW I have found my best defense was a good offense. I have been Mom to terriers for a few decades which helps as they will happily walk all over you if you show weakness or indecisiveness. I respond with a very calm upbeat but also making no room for argument statement that "I have decided against recon," looking them in the eye with a big smile on my face. Then immediately change the subject and move on. Tends to shut them up. If they are gently interested in how you came to the decision, you can tell them. I only do that if they are simply asking for information and not trying to engage in an argument. In my experience saying nothing or sounding at all wishy-washy is more likely to keep it going.
True it is a bit uncomfortable in the beginning but as time goes on and they see you moving forward with your decisions and your life, and you see for yourself that it is "okay" to do so, it all becomes much more of a non issue for everyone.
Barbara
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Now if they can only accept us as both flat AND with a little meat on our bones.
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Glad to hear things are going along without complications Carlads. Yes the drains are a pain, and it is a little frustrating until they are taken out, but they aren't usually in too long. I got so tired of family asking me why I haven't opted for recon that now when the topic is brought up, I tell them to research the surgical procedures and actually imagine themselves having that done to them, then come talk to me. Also while they are looking at before and after pictures they should keep in mind that those are results people were actually happy with! What do the not so happy results look like? When I was first diagnosed, all I had to do was show my husband a couple of pictures of the surgery and he never suggested it again.
Thanks for posting your links again Starak. And yes, Sandra Bullock is stunning despite not having huge hollywood breasts.
I have to call my surgeon again tomorrow - I have been bleeding through the old drain hole ever since my second surgical procedure on Friday. (I actually started a new thread today to look for other women who developed hematomas since it doesn't seem to be that common a complication. None of the 5 nurses I've seen have ever seen one as big as mine or one that bled, and my surgeon said this was only the 4th he's seen in his surgical career).
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Barbara, You look beautiful!!
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I'm in agreement. Starek, Sandra Bullock, and the others mentioned are all beautiful ... just as they are. I had mentioned in an earlier post about taking extra care with my wardrobe for a big family celebration a weekend ago. My husband called me glamorous and I felt beautiful and confident in black velvet, chiffon, and lace inspite of being flat chested. In fact, the only time I thought about it was when I caught our 14 year-old grandson staring down my chest. He had not intended to be rude ... just trying to figure out if I was "aunatural." Here's a photo of me standing next to our older son and my husband.
Wish I hadn't been caught with a sip of wine in my mouth ;-))
The lace at my neckline is a racerback camisole made of stretchy, smoothing, silky fabric. It's being worn "backwards," which is something I can do with most all of my cami's if I want some color or pattern showing (or just coverage) at the neckline. I bought this one at Target.
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Good look, Granellie.
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Oh ladies!
I love all of you.
Now and again, I go into a reconstruction board, just to see what they are talking about. The last time I did this I hopped on some links and watched up on Lat Flap surgery. Oh. My. Gosh, it is so difficult for me to imagine having this work done on my body. Moving muscle and flesh from one place to another? It just does not seem right to me or for me. I love my body and the work I had to have done in order to survive breast cancer. I think my body looks beautiful and strong. As I think back on my surgery, I am so glad that I did not have tissue moved from here to there, expanders placed and filled every three weeks, and that I did not wake to work that is not of my liking. Phew.
Starak, I love your posts and look forward to them. I appreciate that you remind us that the less doubt we have personally, the less folks will try to niggle in and upset the cart.
There are so many new folks on this board! Welcome. Let's toast to each flat accomplishment that we have. Let's also toast to all the options that 'opting out of reconstruction' gives us.
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