Cytoxan Taxotere Chemo Ladies- February/March 2013
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ccduke, the first round of TC was hard. I had a fever and felt like I had a very bad flu. I had horrible bone pain after my first Neulasta shot. The next two rounds (rounds 2 & 3) were really easier in some ways-- I didn't have a fever and the severity of the flu like symptoms were lessened quite a bit. I did not have much bone pain. The only time I had to deal with nausea was round two and compazine saved the day for me. By the third, though, I was feeling a great increase in fatigue and at times it was hard just to get off of the couch. The final round, the fourth round, was probably the hardest for me. The accumulation of deep fatigue and the low grade sense of being ill-- not horribly ill but still ill--seemed to go on longer. I also had emotional and cognitive problems. Keep in mind, though, that each experience is different. I did go to a LBFG session. It was kind of cool to get freebies and to meet other women going through this. We ended up not just talking about makeup, but also our situations. Good luck. I wish you the best, momat
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ccduke - I am on a similar schedule as you. 3/6 and 3/27 are my third and fourth (and final) chemo treatments. First round was ok. The neulasta gave me the bone pain. I had the mouth sores but thankfully the biotene toothpaste is wonderful! The second treatment I developed a rash on my hands (that was not an allergic reaction) and thrush.
To prep for this time I am making sure I am eating enough protein and hydrate prior to treatment. Popsicles, jello, cranberry juice, gummy bears, and fruit for smoothies are in stock.
FYI I found day 8 after treatment Slushies/Slurpies taste so good!
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ccduke - my first and second were the worst though fatigue, joint and muscle were more intense in my last two. Also had rapid heart rate and neuropathy. My MO reduced my tax on my 4th to prevent permanent nerve damage. Good luck to you!
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ccduke79- Welcome!!! Hope we can help you get through the rest of your chemo rounds. I had 6 rounds. I noticed that I became more fatigued and short of breath after I finished Round 3. I know that my red blood cell count dropped throughout my chemo rounds. I asked my onco about taking iron supplements and was told that I needed to eat iron enriched foods to help those counts. So I ate steak several times a week, iron enriched breakfast cereals ( Total, Cream of Wheat , etc ) and I ate beans and other veggies that were high in iron. Here is a link to a food data chart for iron which may help you stave off the anemia---
http://apjcn.nhri.org.tw/server/info/books-phds/books/foodfacts.../html/data/data5e.html and you can also go to the Livestrong.com website and do a search for "Foods That Are High in Iron". One thing that will help with the fatigue is to keep moving/walking around and eat well and sleep well. I know you are trying to keep working but if you feel overly tired, it is best to rest. Your body will thank you later on. I also noticed that my taste buds went on vacation maybe a day or two sooner in the later rounds of chemo; but they always returned during the last week before the next chemo which allowed me to eat whatever I wanted. As for joint pain, in the later rounds, I was getting up slower from sitting down or laying down. I didn't always feel steady on my feet plus sometimes I had joint pain/muscle aches from the chemo.
Hope you are taking your temp periodically and regularly so you can keep an eye on those fevers. I had Neulasta shots after Rounds 3-6 and took Claritin for 8 days beginning the morning that I would get my afternoon shot of Neulasta. I was lucky and didn't get the bone pain related to the Neulasta shot. The reason I didn't initially receive Neulasta shots is because my onco wanted to see how my body would handle the drop in the WBC. It was only after I developed a high spiking fever/chills that I started to receive the Neulasta. When that fever occurred, I didn't have to go to the ER but was prescribed 2 heavy duty antibotics via telephone.
I didn't attend the Look Good Feel Good program but I had a private session during my first round of chemo with ACS at my infusion center. I got the free makeup bag/kit and also received a free wig. As I look back at that session, there I was.....kind of out of it on Ativan and Benedryl, trying on various wigs and hooked up to my chemo. It did make that first round of chemo go faster!!!
Are you icing your nails ( fingers and toes)? The icing may help with the neuropathy. You may want to ask your onco if you can take supplements to help with the neuropathy ( not sure which one to take for that ).
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I will be starting chemo on March 11 and dread it. This is the 3rd time i have been DX with breast cancer in the past 5 yrs. I had a year of herceptin the 1st time, double mastectomy the 2nd time with no further TX. This time i wil be getting chemo x6 and then radiation. I truely do not want to do this but understand it is necessary at this point. Do not like hearing about the possible sideeffects but am glad to know about them so i will not be ignorant of them if they happen. Good to know about remedies for the side effects also. I did not know about the problem with the nails. I am resigned to loosing my hair but not my nails. I am glad this site exists so i can see what other people's experience has been with TC.
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Evelyn, per my MO, I "painted" my nails, all around the edges and under the tip twice a day with tea tree oil. I am 7 weeks out and as of this point, one of them partially lifted and is now broken off about half way down. That is it, and I hope will be it. I have kept them painted with hardener throughout. They are yellow, but actually stronger than they've ever been. Go figure! Of all the bleeping SE, my nails have been nothing.
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PatAlameda, thanks for the info about tea tree oil. I will give that a try since i already have a bottle in my cabinet.
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FOR THOSE ICING NAILS : Always clear anything you want to do with your oncos. You will need to clear it with your onco about icing since not all oncos will allow icing during the infusions. The Taxotere icing time period is 1 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 1 hour during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion). At the suggestion of my onco, I am using clear nail polish on my nails to help keep them strong and also icing the nails to help prevent nail damage which is a side effect of Taxotere. She suggested that use Sally Hansen Strong As Nails Clear Polish but I switched to Essie polish since it doesn't chip as much as the Sally Hansen brand. Essie polish costs more but for someone like me who never used nail polish before chemo, the fewer times I have to apply polish the better. I don't mani/pedis but some do. I'd rather avoid the germ issue at nail salons and taking of a chance of getting nicked.
ICING :
- Time period for icing- You will for 1/1/2 hours in total= 15 minutes before the Taxotere infusion + 1 hour during the infusion + 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion).
- Ice- You can use frozen peas in quart size ziploc bags marked "Do no eat!!!" and reuse those bags of peas. Some have used small reusable/refreezable ice bags you can get at the drugstore in the first aid department. I opted to use ice. I have an ice tray that makes small rounded bottom circular ice. I tried the peas and decided I liked the ice better because I thought it stayed colder longer. My infusion center has ice available for me to use if I want to use it. I always bring an extra bag of ice just in case I need it.
- Transporting ice to infusion center- I used a cooler with a freezer pack plus take extra infusion ice bags.
- What to put the ice bags in- That is a personal preference. Some just put the ice bags on their feet and wrap a blanket around them so the bags don't fall off. Some use insulated lunch bags and put the ice bags in those. My hands and feet are small so I'm using some neoprene wine cooler bags that I bought at Target for $6.99 each. I figured I could use the wine bags later on. I'm still able to hold an insulated mug so I can drink really cold water and eat ice during the infusion. I have pretty small hands/feet which explains how I am able to use those Neoprene wine bags.
- Hand & Feet Protection- I wear thin sports socks on my feet when I ice the toes. The socks keep the rest of my feet warm during the icing. On my hands, I wear a pair of knitted wristlets/fingerless gloves to keep the rest of my hands warm. If you don't have knitted wristlets, you can make some from men's socks by cutting holes in the toe area. Some people take their feet/hands out of the ice periodically; however, I don't do that.
- Process- I let the infusion nurse know that i'm icing so we can coordinate when I should start the icing. Once I know when I'm going to start the infusion, I put the ice bags in the bottom of the Neoprene bags. I put the ones on my feet first and adjust the ice bags so my toes nails are covered. I then put the ones on my hands on and adjust the ice to cover my fingernails. My husband helped me with this process.
Tips to Help Take Care of Your Nails
- Keep them short
- Use a polish with strengthener ( clear if your onco does a nail check at your appointments)
- Learn to not use your fingernails as tools----- No more opening cardboard boxes/cartons with your thumbnail
- Do not use your fingernails as staple pullers
- Use garden gloves if working in the yard
- Use rubber gloves when washing dishes or using cleaning products around the house
0 - Time period for icing- You will for 1/1/2 hours in total= 15 minutes before the Taxotere infusion + 1 hour during the infusion + 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion).
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Melrose - Wow. It was nice of you to detail everything. I do the above with a couple modifications. I was instructed to wear dark nail polish on infusion day and switch back to the clear the day after. I was told it is something about not letting light in? In addition, I use thin knit gloves with fingers as it is brutally cold to begin with. I normally dress warm and use an electric blanket to keep the core of my body warm. I buy store brand peas and use one bag per infusion. I throw them out when I am finished because they become mushy and disgusting. I use tea tree oil on my cuticles and reapply the hard as nails everyday for a week after the infusion. So far, my nails look great. I'm on day 50 of chemo so I'm not certain when I will know if my efforts are paying off. I am also using liquid silica for hair and nails.
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Warrior_Woman- So glad you are icing. I hope it pays off for you, too!!!! Post chemo, I noticed that my fingernails seem to chip and tear a little more easily. I have a small manicure set that I keep in my car and emory boards in my purses since it seems that those little nail problems crop up when I'm out and about. Keep us posted on how you are doing. HUGS!!!
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Melrose - Is PFC when the symptoms of nail problems begin to show? So far I don't have chipping, discoloration or ridges.
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The Beau's Lines ( lateral indentions) started during chemo. Here is a link to more info about Beau's lines http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826482/
I didn't really notice the yellowish tinge to my finger nails during chemo but apparently, the yellowish tinge had been there throughout chemo. It wasn't until I started looking at my nails post chemo that I realized the color difference.The chipping started after I finished chemo; and I have noticed less chipping the longer I am PFC. I think I've been pretty luck with the nails since I haven't had any lifting.
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Meelrose - I'm like you that I rarely bothered with manicures. I've always had healthy attractive nails without effort. However, when I wanted to add extra sparkle to my nails I applied a coat of Sally Hansen Insta Brite Nail Whitener. I bet it will help with discoloration.
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As my nails have grown out post chemo, there doesn't appear to be any more yellow tinge. Thank goodness, it was only a temporary situation. Yep, you have me pegged correct....had good nails before I started chemo and never had done much to them. My onco looked at my nails before I started chemo and said my nails looked pretty healthy and strong. I think she was pleasantly surprised to how well my nails did during chemo with the icing and polish. Doing the icing and taking care of my nails help me retain some control over my life while I was in chemoland. I know for me that taking an active role in my well being and health has helped me a lot.
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Adding to the nail discussion - I too iced w/peas and I too had GREAT healthy nails before chemo that I never did anything to but file. I'm 12 weeks PFC but still doing Herceptin for a year. I haven't lost any fingernails, but nails are brittle & chipping & definitely yellowish. If I clench my hands or push my fingers down on a table, under the nails is red half way down or more.
The MO approved starting Biotin 5000 mcg. My PCP tested for Zinc due to my nails & I'm low. She recommended GNC Skin, Hair & Nails - but that also has Vitamins A,C & E - all antioxidants that the RO said I should not be taking while I'm in rads. Also there was a new study in January 2014 showing antioxidant supplements may hinder the body's natural defenses to controlling cancer cell growth. This study is on my list to discuss with the MO. I'll let you know how the zinc works if RO allows it.
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Not getting the shot but I see my doctor before I start my treatment and tell him what is going on. I have been documenting when I take any meds and when I have fevers and such. Wondering if they will change it up again. This time was tough and I hope the third one will be a lot easier. Good to know about the LGFB event found out it was on monday and not today but I am scheduled for the next one. I hope to meet others I have met one on my first one (we had a snow storm so everyone came in on my day that were from the other days) she works as a vendor where my hubby works. He has gotten a lot of support and I do too from friends and family but wanted to talk to others who are experiencing it or have gone through it. Thanks for all the support so far! This is really helping me know more.
mapgirl-Thanks for the advice! I have found a love for popicles lately. I have smoothie mix and lots of jello on hand. Also applesauce has helped me. I have been getting the bland taste lately where I eat something but it tastes like cardboard got it again today.
momat927- My nausea was a lot more this time around than the last I am on compazine too. Yeah I felt pretty bad that first time like it was a flu it wasn't as bad this time around. But then I got sick around the 8th day of the first and the 9th day of this last one with fever and got sick this time with a sore throat (which wasn't thrush). I think I may have tried to get a sinus infection feel better today from the antibiotics.
keepthefaith- I had some heartburn lately after this one was wondering if that would linger around to the next ones. Will let my doctor know about that too on this next visit since it was new to me and I never get heartburn unless its something I know I shouldn't have eaten.
Headeast- thanks for the information on the vitamins. Did anyone take anything else vitamin wise or just ate better. I have not eaten any fast food at all I am going out to lunch on friday with a friend and going to chipotle any advice. Been eating at home trying to eat a lot of protein, fuits and veggies and been eating prunes to help keep me regular so far that has helped. Anything else I may need to do. I have a lot still to finish up surgery wise.
Thanks for all the awesome wisdom!
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Melrosemelrose-I read about the icing I haven't but I will start.Thanks for the link too. I have been loading up on lots of leafy green veggies the week of treatment and after treatment. I eat a ton of kale, spinach, and brussel sprouts. I also eat broccoli and lots of stuff but this will help. I am getting the taste bud thing now. Good to know about after the 4th one too that was an unknown to me. I have been keeping an eye on my temp much more. I think I even carried it to work one day because I had fevers the day before. I may have tostep back from work but trying right now. Plus they really are working with me on every aspect as much as I can. Yeah the fatigue has been rough.I will keep you guys posted after this third one as to what my onco wants to do next.
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cc, I think heartburn was the worst for me the 3rd round, then kind of tapered off. My MO told me I could take Zantac and it helped. Staying upright after eating also helps (as opposed to taking a nap!).
I hope you can get the SE's under control. Good luck with your up-coming treatments.
Still hoping I can hang on to my nails! I haven't done anything preventative. I did use Tea tree oil for a week or so, but quit that bc I didn't like the smell. Also read somewhere that is has estrogen properties or something...who knows if that's true. I guess I'll wait and see what happens!
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ccduke79- Oh yum.... lunch at Chipotle!!! I probably would go easy on anything spicy there. I usually order a burrito bowl with chicken or pork, beans, cheese, lettuce, tomato salsa and corn salsa. Just thinking about Chipotle is making me hungry!!!! Lol
As for vitamins and supplements, my onco said no to my request and said I needed to eat healthy. She also asked me if I had been taking vitamins on a regular basis before I was diagnosed. I told her no. She and I agreed that I probably wouldn't take them consistently and it would be better for me to eat what my body needs. She also said that the body absorbs vitamins and nutrients when they are in food form rather than via pill form. It has meant that I have to think about what I eat and to make sure I'm getting enough nutrients/vitamins through food. That is not to say that I don't splurge and have dessert but I do watch the amount I eat and what I eat..
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ccduke, i had diarrhea and cramps in all 4 TCs. Like melrose mentioned, try to stay away for spicy food. Those cramps are horrible.
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I am now 3 months post chemo, and I went hatless at work for the first time today. I'm a kindergarten teacher, and my K's were a little shocked to see their previously blonde pony-tailed teacher now with very short whitish/dark grayish spreckled hair. But once I talked to them about empathy and that teachers have feelings too, they started saying I looked beautiful!! It was one of those precious teachable moments.
I asked all the other teachers yesterday to talk with their students (we are a small school and all very close) to prepare them about why my hair looks different, so that they wouldn't be tempted to stare when they saw me for the first time in the halls or playground. It went very well today, many kids, even the 5th graders, came up and said they were happy I am getting healthy and that my hair looked great. It was very comforting. But I must admit, this morning I sat in my car for a long time praying for the strength to go inside the school without a hat or scarf on. It's crazy how our hair, or lack thereof, can have such an emotional impact on our lives.
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Hi, all....I hope you don't mind if I join in....I am scheduled to start my first TC on 3/13 through a PICC line (4X 3q) and am really scared to death. Have some sort of autonomic nervous system disorder so I am imagining all sorts of horrible things happening, although MO says probably not. It's reassuring to hear that a lot of you haven't had major, major problems. I imagined a torture chamber so am happy to hear that some of you are even going to work. I haven't known anyone with breast cancer who had to have chemo, so I am totally trying to catch up on what to do and what to expect. Thanks for your help and advice here!
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Hi everyone -- I haven't hung out here for awhile, and had to go back 3 pages to read up. Welcome to the new TC ladies -- you are in the right place for love, support and info. I am about 2.5 months post chemo and just finished my rads (30 tx) on Monday. Active treatment is over, now it is just Tamoxifen for 5-10 years and Zometa every 6 months for bone density. Thought I would check in to say there is life after chemo -- it gets better, though there are dark times for all of us at some points. Hang in there -- you never know how strong you are until you need to be, I have found.
Like some of the others here, I want to say thank you -- it hardly seems like enough. Without this forum, I think I would have lost my mind during chemo. Now that my active treatment is over, I may read occasionally, but will probably not post. I just need the break and the chance to let BC recede to the back of my consciousness after so many months of battling through treatments. Know that my heart and my support are with you as you complete the journey.
My thoughts on a few topics I saw here....
Nails -- I second the suggestion to ice during Taxotere. I did that, and haven't lost any nails yet. Can't say for sure if there is a cause and effect relationship. My nails did turn yellow (sort of golden. Ugly), and I kept them short and painted with dark red polish for most of chemo. I would put a coat of clear polish over the top each day to keep them strong and hard. Now they look about like they did before chemo -- on the weak side and pretty short, but they were always like that. I had no lifting or loss or chipping.
Hair -- Bondsy, I am proud of you for braving school sans hat or wig. Good for you! I thought about it this morning -- I got dressed and put on some really big earrings, and was just about to do it, but then chickened out and put on a hat at the last minute. My hair has come back in a little darker, some gray at the temples, and very thick and soft, but not curly. Right now it is just over a half inch long. I look like my son when he used to get a buzz cut at the start of summer, then it would start to grow out by August, lol. I have been taking Biotin and using Nioxin shampoo and scalp treatment. I wish it would grow faster, but patience is not a strength of mine.
Rads -- I found that chemo was much more difficult than rads, but rads is not without its bumps in the road. Some gals have a hard time with skin reactions. I burned some, and had to get an RX for Silvadine cream, but didn't peel down to raw flesh like a few I have heard. For me, it was a little sore, but manageable. Psychologically, I had an easier time with the localized reactions from rads, rather than the systemic reactions from chemo.
Energy -- fatigue for me was the worst during my 2nd and 3rd TC cycles. I think, because I only had C for the 4th infusion, I started to recover my energy more quickly. My MO didn't allow vitamins during chemo, but I started taking them again post chemo and I think that helped. I had some tiredness at times during rads, but not bad.
Take care, brave warriors!! You can do it!
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Bondsy, good for you! I'm sure your courage struck many people in a positive way.
welcome jmg58!
Teamkim, congrats on completing rads. Mine will start on the 17th. I'm glad to hear that yours wasn't too bad.
Have a good week-end ladies! TGIF!
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Kim: We'll miss your posts but certainly understand the wish to get away from all the BC stuff. You've been a great inspiration.
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Teamkim, thanks for posting and reminding that there's life after all this crap. Now get out of here and live your life!
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Bondsy: last week I ventured out for the first time in my "fierce" fuzz-only glory. I think it's easier to do in the East Bay, since there are so many women who have their hair buzzed on purpose. We live in sort of the opposite of Texas (if I may indulgent a stereotype), no big blonde hair, even the blondes dye theirs black and shave it off. I just feel exceedingly hip! At what school do you work? Mine went public for elementary, but to Redwood for middle and Maybeck for high school.
Jmg58- Breathe. I went I to chemo expecting to spend three months puking my guts out. Never happened even once, and I've got the weakest stomach I know. They give you good drugs for all the SE, so although they're there for sure, they are nonetheless, tolerable. While it's not an experience I would care to repeat, it really was so much less horrible than my fears. It will suck, but it will be ok.
Yes, TeamKim, onward and out! We've been posting to this stinking board for eight months. Via con Dios, mi Amiga!
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PatAlameda - Yes, many people say how stylish I look with my cute new haircut! I don't really tell them it's not a haircut, I just let it go. If they only knew what I had to go through to get this "haircut"! Went to a restaurant last night hatless and all was fine. I think I'm finally over the hats/scarves, except when it's cold outside I still need a hat to keep my head warm. But at least it's for the warmth and not for the vanity.
(I teach at Emerson Elementary School in Berkeley, which is one block from the new Maybeck H.S.! Small world!)
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I am starting t/c soon and I'm so scared. I will do it 4 times over 12 weeks. Can anyone tell me any advice? Help. So frightened.
Lori
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Thanks yeah I tried eating something spicy during the first one and learned that the hard way. Yeah I had a burrito bowl it was good. Yeah my mom said I should get some zantac too so I will pick that up this week. I still haven't gotten brave to go hat less.Right now its still falling out mostly the prickly stuff just don't want to completely shave it. Plus the hats help unless I get too hot then it get bothersome. Hopefully I can be brave and do it soon!
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