Cytoxan Taxotere Chemo Ladies- February/March 2013
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Lorbgoo, we're on the same chemo regimen. The only advise I can give is to let people help you, take your anti nausea meds, eat frequently, and don't be afraid to ask for painkillers if you have a reaction to the neulasta or neupogen. After about a week I feel more functional but still tired.
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Lorbgoo - I was on the same chemo regimen as you. I just finished my last treatment on February 21st. One piece of advice that I learned somewhere here on breastcancer.org is to keep ice in your mouth 30 minutes before, all during, and 30 minutes after chemo. I did not do the ice before or after with my first treatment, and I got mouth sores that time. After that, I did the ice before, during, and after. No mouth sores the rest of my treatments. My MO advised against cold caps and icing of nails, but he was fine with keeping the ice in my mouth. He's a bit conservative, and your MO may have a different opinion on icing.
A couple of my co-workers/BC sisters told me to exercise if at all possible during chemo, no matter how little I was able to do. I made sure to do that, and I think that it helped tremendously. My MO agreed that I needed to exercise, but said no to overdo it. That was good advice because there were days I could not exercise.
I had a relatively easy time with the chemo, and I wish the same for you. BMX next on my list of things I have to do to beat this crap! I'll be praying for you!
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thanks AKJ andsouthern. So I'm suppose to keep ice in my mouth the entire time? Did you suck or chew it? Y'all made me feel a little better thanks. Best of luck to you too.
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Lorbgoo, I just sucked on crushed ice. Of course, the crushed ice was in a Sonic drink. I probably didn't need the sugar in the drink, but you do what you gotta do! My chemo center has crushed ice so I could have left the Sonic drink off, I guess.
On of my "breast buddies" did get the mouth sores and advised me to have Magic Mouthwash on hand. I did use that the one time I got the mouth sores, and it helped lessen the time I had them. Hubby used it when he got a mouth ulcer recently and said it did not work for those, so who knows?
I know everyone is different, but for me, the third and fourth days after my chemo were the toughest. I worked during the entire treatment except two days when I apparently picked up a virus from my son. I did chemo on Friday and felt pretty good all weekend except the terrible taste in my mouth. Mondays and Tuesdays I had noticeable muscle fatigue. As in I could barely make it up the three flights of stairs at work, and we don't have an elevator! But that got better for me as the days went along, and I could do the treadmill every day.
I'm sure the other ladies will jump on here soon with some better advice. I truly hope you have no, or at least minimal, SEs!
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I didn't suck on ice but I'm going to the next time. I use Biotene mouthwash several times a day, make sure you have lots of that around.
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lorbgoo - I suffered from meds induced constipation and then chemo diahhrea. I suggest starting a daily (or twice daily) stool softener when you start steriods. I stopped when my diahhrea started. I didn't suck ice and didn't have mouth sores but did have the lining of the roof of my mouth die off and my taste buds were out of whack for all of chemo. I also had a chemo induced rapid heart rate and subsequent shortness of breath. If you find yourself easily out of breath, check your pulse. Don't be surprised if need lots of naps, or develop really watery eyes. Also, if you are having the Neulasta shot I recommend Claritin one day before and two days after. Even with that you may have bond pain. Be sure to medicate it as soon as it starts. Don't wait and feel free to call your MO if regular pain meds aren't enough.
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AKJ is right about the Biotene. I used Biotene toothpaste, Biotene mouthwash, and even Biotene spray. If you do get the dry mouth, I recommend ACT Dry Throat Lozenges. I still use all of those. I almost forgot the salt/soda water rinses. I kept all of those things in the bathroom, and I used them after every meal and when I went to the bathroom. I tried to do this routine even if I woke up at night. I had a bag that had all of the Biotene products and salt/soda rinse in my office, and I even did it at work. That may have been overboard, but it kept the mouth uglies away. I never succeeded in keeping the metallic taste away though. I told my hubby and super smart son that if they could invent a product to get rid of that taste, they could make millions!!!
Keep smilin', keep shinin'...
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lorbgoo, welcome!
I finished my TC chemo on Feb 11th. For me, it really wasn't as bad as I had anticipated. There were a few days during each treatment that I felt bad, but for the most part, I think I did pretty well. Try to stay hydrated, especially the day before, the day of and for several days. Eat small bland meals/snacks throughout the day until you know what you can tolerate. I think the main thing is to let your MO know as soon as you start having SE's so they don't get severe. If you get the Neulasta shot, take a 24 hr Claritin the day before, the day of and a few days after. It will help with the pain the shot may cause....and it will probably lessen each time; at least mine did. I used Biotene mouth rinse twice/day and never got mouth sores. You can get it at Wal-mart. I did get thrush, but got a RX that got rid of it. You might want to go to your dentist for a cleaning if you are due. The dentist may recommend a rinse also. I think once you get through your first TX, you will have an idea of what to expect and you will have your ammunition ready!! Come here often. There is someone that has experienced anything that you may come across. Be good to yourself. You can do it!
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thanks. I bought biotene toothpaste and mouthwash already. I was going to get Claritin but I will get that later. I find out on Tuesday (my birthday) when my chemo will start. I will keep in touch. Thanks for the advice. I feel a little better.
Lori
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My BS was thinking the surgery first, but after consulting with the MO, he agreed to chemo first. They were looking at my grade 3, high Ki67, and the size. They thought originally my tumor was 1.3 cm, but other tests said more like 1.9 cm. The BS, MO, and RO all said I would be an excellent candidate for lumpectomy given the size and location and my breast size if I decided to do that. They also consulted with Sloan Kettering before going with the ALND. I had my ALND and port placement at the same time.
The MO was concerned about lymph node involvement, and the radiologist got my BS in the room because she was sure from the ultrasound she was looking at that the lymph nodes were cancerous. BS said they wouldn't know until they were checked. Thank goodness they were clear! I got that news late on the night of Friday the 13th!!!
Great advice from QuirkyGirl on the heading off the constipation with a stool softener then stopping when the diarrhea started. That's exactly what I did, and it helped with those issues.
Like KeeptheFaith said, the chemo was not nearly as bad as I thought. I was able to work, but I didn't go anywhere else unless it was something like my son's school activities. Once people looked past the gloves and mask that I wore everywhere, they could not believe I was doing chemo. I work in an office with a lot of people who are exposed to children, so I tried to be careful. Again, I probably went overboard. I'm definitely a Type-A!!!
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Welcome Lorbgoo!!!! Glad you found this thread and hope you find support and help. I know the days leading up to the first chemo is filled with some anxiety, questions about what to expect and what to do and how can I help myself get through this. There are many who have travelled this way before you and ready to help you get through chemoland. If you have questions, please post. You can also private message me if you want. Wishing you the best.....
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Oops...The chemo vs. surgery first conversation was on the Cytoxan/Taxotere thread. I may have chemo brain after all! Sorry if I confused anyone!
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Oops...the surgery vs. chemo first conversation is on the December 2013 Chemo thread. I guess I have chemo brain after all!!!
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There is one thing I know for sure - no two people on TC will have the same side effects. My side effects were not the same after each Chemo. What a journey is this TC. I take it a day at a time, do not worry about what tomorrow or the next Chemo will bring and just live in the now. It is doable. Depression kicks me when I am already down so I give myself a limited amount of time for it or pity and then change my scenery; like go to the Mall, for a walk, phone someone, play computer games.
Claritin & Neulasta - I took Tylonal 500mg day of Chemo and then at least every 4/6 - 8 hours after wards. If I did NOT take it I did have aching joints. I do not believe I experienced any bone marrow pain - could have been masked by the Tylenol. I spent only 3 days - heating pad, fatique, tylenol and ginger ale. Today is Day 10 and I feel great - I have lower standards now - but I actually slept thru the night for 2 nights in a row! I haven't done this in years. I am seeing this as a major POSITIVE.
You all will never know how much I truly appreciate you, your experiences and your advice, hints and kind words. When I have moments of self-doubt, weakness or my hope starts to wane - I know I can come onto this site and be uplifted. God Bless you all, from the bottom of my heart.
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Day 10 after my first treatment and I feel ALMOST human. Just sleepy but way more functional than I was. Full week of work ahead. Hopefully I can work all the days. Thanks for your support everybody!
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Glad you are feeling better, AKJ
...my first treatment is Thursday, shot Friday, MO says I can go to work on Monday....I say NOT. I wish, but I doubt it. I have to drive to a train, sit on a train for an hour, walk 45 minutes just to get to work. I'm not rushing it. I'm so sensitive to drugs, I'll be happy if I'm not totally sick the whole first week and then some.QuirkyGirl...I'm worried about the racing heart. I got this really bad for a month just after a flu shot. Did it last long. I'm prone to this anyway (and fainting because of it) so that's one of the major reasons for my nerves right now.
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My racing heart rate lasted for weeks and weeks. It's controlled right now with a beta blocker which also works as a high blood pressure med. I was relieved after they ran the tests to see it wasn't a heart problem or a clot...
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Just an update. Receiving 5 treatment of TC chemo--1 more to go! How does doc assess the treatment of success? Thanks!
Joan
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jmg58, I know everybody is different but......I got my 1st treatment on a Thursday and the Monday afterward was my WORST day. Don't try to go in on Monday. The whole week was not good for me as a matter of fact. Tuesday I made it through 2 hours, Wednesday through 3 hours then the bone pain from the shots set in. Thursday I took off and finally made it through a full day on Friday. Today was so much better! Made it through the whole day no problem. I'm tired but ok.
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joan, akj is right. The first days you will feel more or less ok, except for diarrhea or constipation (everybody is different) but after the steroids they give you the first days you will feel extremely tired and all SE will be more noticeable. That happened to me after day four. Days 7-14 you will be in nadir, the lowest count and very prone to infections, etc.
i don't know what type of work you do, but the best thing I did was to stay at home and not to stress myself in getting sick and compromise the chemo treatment. If you get a fever you will have to call the MO or go to ER and i am it exaggerating. Read the previous days in the threads and you will see that a lot of ladies ended up in the ER just because they went to a farmers market or were around other people and got sick. Your immune system will be very low.
Take the most time you can to treat your body right. You might not feel too much because of all the medicine and steroids they will put in your infusion but your body needs to rest as much as you can.
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Thanks so much, ladies. Okay, I've already made up my mind I won't go in for quite a while! I know I'm gonna be hurting so bad; I get the PICC line tomorrow and go for the start of chemo Thurs. at 8:45. I am so terrified I am sick to my stomach. Really, I feel ashamed of myself when you are all so brave; I don't know why I can't get a grip. AKJ, I am so glad you're feeling better and I will keep that in mind when I feel like there is not light at the end of the tunnel! I hope each day is better and better for all of you!
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joanmj58- At your next onco appointment, ask your onco that very question--- how do I know that the chemo has done its job? Each onco is different and so what each of us is told once we finish active treatments is probably not the same. I asked my onco what symptoms I should be looking for. I was told to continue to do self exams regularly, change in appetite, change in weight, aches and pains. Another thing that my onco said to me which still has me puzzled is this--- I will know if something is not right. My next onco appointment is April 24 which is the 2 year anniversary of my first round of chemo. I am planning to ask her my questions again as I always do.... how will I know and what am I looking for. Hope you are doing well after Round 5!!!! I know you are looking forward to Round 6-- the last one!!! Keep us posted.... Hugs!!!
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jmg58, it's okay to be terrified! You'll probably find that once your first TX is over, you will be relieved and it won't be as bad as you thought it would be. Your medical team is there to help you manage any SE's you might have. Don't be afraid to ask them! If you are feeling overly anxious, maybe your MO can help with that, too. All you really need to do right now is show up!
Wishing you the best.I mowed my yard today! Whew, that wore me out. I will be taking it easy the rest of the day!
I go for my Rads consult on Friday....guess I'll be starting that next week.
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jmg58- Please be easy on yourself. I would say that most of us felt anxious and scared before the 1st round of chemo. No one here is asked to be brave---- we just needed to show up for all treatments---- that's all. You shouldn't feel less than anyone here because we know how you feel about chemoland. If you are feeling extremely anxious on chemo day, ask your onco if you can have some Ativan in your pre-chemo IV drug cocktail. Ativan can help calm you down and lessen the anxiety. I remember being a little nervous that morning I went in for Round 1. The research coordinator of the clinical trial I'm in, spent time with me to go over the drug orders that my onco had specified. At that time, she asked if I wanted to have the Ativan since it was optional. I readily said yes and had Ativan in my pre-chemo IV drug cocktail for all 6 rounds of chemo. I never received any other scripts for anti-anxiety meds because I never asked for any and didn't feel like I needed them. However, I do encourage you to have a chat with your onco about getting some anti-anxiety meds to help you get through this. It's okay. If you are wondering what to do between now and Thursday--- keep breathing and stay calm. You will not be alone during your chemo infusions and you are not self administering the chemo. If there are things you want to take with you to chemo ( blanket, water bottle, snacks, lip calm, etc.) , gather up those things so you will be ready to go Thursday morning. If you are wondering what to eat between now and then, yes... you do need to keep eating. I would avoid spicy foods ( Mexican, Italian) the night before. The morning of chemo, make sure you eat a light breakfast ( egg, toast, oatmeal) so that you will have some food in your tummy. Those pre-chemo IV drugs can cause nausea if you have an empty stomach. Make sure you hydrate the day before your chemo that your veins will be plump and ready to go. Hang in there...... you can do this!!!! On Thursday, you will be saying " I am doing this!!!" Hugs.....
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jmg - as always, Melrose has excellent advice. One other thing that helped me was to ask for a tour before my first day. You may live too far away to do that, but once I'd seen the center & the set up and found the restroom, water, etc. - the first day was easier.
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Oh, thank you all SO SO much! I wasn't sure if I should eat breakfast, so that's going to help for sure..and although I have Xanax and Ativan in pill form I would love to get it in the drip!!! Thanks again...I will be busy tomorrow getting the PiCC line and have to be at the hospital at 8:30 a.m. on Thursday. If I don't check in before then, I will let you know how it goes after...and I hope all of you have a great day tomorrow and are feeling good.
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jmg58- So glad you checked the recent posts..... Just didn't want you to go in to the chemo on Thursday feeling so frightened. Here are 2 cookbooks that I found helpful when i was having chemoEating Well Through Cancer by Holly Clegg and Gerald Miletello, MD- book has menus, shopping lists, recipes and helpful tips and is divided into chapters ( ie- what to eat the day before chemo/day of chemo,. what to eat if you have certain side effects). This book is a great reference to have on hand since sometimes one doesn't feel like getting on the computer to figure things out
The Cancer Fighting Kitchen by Rebecca Katz- Great pictures, recipes and eating tips.
Here is something I wrote a while ago about the first chemo.... maybe it will help you.....
The first treatment may take longer because you are still learning the infusion center procedure. You will probably get weighed and then your blood work may be taken to determine if your WBC is high enough for the treatment. I also see my onco the day of my treatment and before I have my treatment. So be prepared for things to take a little longer. You may want to take some snacks/sandwich because you may get hungry. You may also want to take a blanket/jacket to keep you warm during the treatment unless the infusion center has warmed blankets for its patients. I'm lucky that mine does. I usually wear the same outfit--- leggings & long sleeve knit shirt & men's undershirt--- so I can tell if I've gained weight between treatments. I have my Taxotere infusion first and then have the Cytoxan infusion second. Make sure you drink water/eat ice during the treatment to help prevent mouth sores and to start flushing that chemo through your body. You will sit the entire time during the Taxotere infusion since you are icing. However you definitely can get up and walk around with your IV pole during the Cytoxan. That means don't curtail your fluid intake thinking that you can't use the restroom because you can definitely get up to take a walk or go to the restroom!!!! Just ask the infusion nurse to unplug your IV pole from the electric plug. My onco ordered Ativan in my IV along with the usual IV meds which helps me keep calm during my treatments.
· After the first treatment, keep drinking the fluids to help flush the chemo out of your body. I know you may not feel like eating but try to eat 5-6 small meals every day. A fed tummy is a happy tummy. If your side effects start to escalate, call your onco to get some help asap. Doesn't matter what time of day it is or what day of the week it is, just call. They really want to help you get side effects under control and expect you to call.
I don't know if you are icing your finger and toe nails. If you are, let me know and I will post some helpful tips for doing that.
· GOOD LUCK ON THE FIRST TREATMENT!!! WISHING MINIMAL SIDE EFFECTS FOR ALL!!!! YOU CAN DO THIS. Once you get through the first one, you need to say out loud " I AM DOING THIS!!!!"
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jmg58, believe me I'm not brave. I've been scared shitless since my diagnosis. You just do what you have to do because the other option is so much worse. I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and the next day. You'll feel crappy for a few days but you will start to feel better!
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Thanks ladies! I am sitting in the hotel right now reading up on the med instructions they gave me for nausea and the steroid, which I start tomorrow. One question, MelroseMelrose, the icing part with the Tax: I've been reading that everyone is doing that (for saving nails or is it for neuropathy?) My doctor says she knows nothing about that so I don't know if they'll let me do it...and I didn't bring anything to do it (but my boyfriend might bring a little cooler). They don't even have ice chips in there...she said she never heard of that either for mouth sores, but I know I'm sending him down to the cafeteria for a cup of chips and a smoothie for sure. No one told me about the blankets...I should have brought the prayer shawl I was given! I took a quick tour of the room last week and didn't see any blankets; I guess I'll bring a sweatshirt and drape my coat over if they don't have any. Seems they're pretty stark with the supplies compared to what I've read other places have, we'll have to see. Have a good night, all. You all are the best! :-)
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jmg58- I found out about the icing during the Taxotere through reading the chemo discussion boards here. I asked my onco about icing and she said if I wanted to try it, that it was fine with her. Since that time, she has asked me to help several of her patients ice. Also, the infusion center is in the process of formulating a clinical trial for icing to see if it helps prevent/lesses the neuropathy. Theorhetically, the icing of the fingers and toes should work on the same premise as the cold caps used to prevent hair loss. I am assuming that the nerves endings contract because of the cold meaning there should be less flow of the Taxotere. If you have minimal things with you for the icing... don't fret. You just need to zip loc bags for the ice. If you are at a hotel, help yourself to the hotel ice. Perhaps a quick trip to a nearby drug store/ Target/Walmart may be in order so you feel like you have what you need. Here are some tips to help you with icing.
( Sorry everyone--- this icing is a repost of info )
FOR THOSE ICING NAILS : Always clear anything you want to do with your oncos. You will need to clear it with your onco about icing since not all oncos will allow icing during the infusions. The Taxotere icing time period is 1 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 1 hour during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion). At the suggestion of my onco, I am using clear nail polish on my nails to help keep them strong and also icing the nails to help prevent nail damage which is a side effect of Taxotere. She suggested that use Sally Hansen Strong As Nails Clear Polish but I switched to Essie polish since it doesn't chip as much as the Sally Hansen brand. Essie polish costs more but for someone like me who never used nail polish before chemo, the fewer times I have to apply polish the better. I don't mani/pedis but some do. I'd rather avoid the germ issue at nail salons and taking of a chance of getting nicked.ICING :
- Time period for icing- You will for 1/1/2 hours in total= 15 minutes before the Taxotere infusion + 1 hour during the infusion + 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion).
- Ice- You can use frozen peas in quart size ziploc bags marked "Do no eat!!!" and reuse those bags of peas. Some have used small reusable/refreezable ice bags you can get at the drugstore in the first aid department. I opted to use ice. I have an ice tray that makes small rounded bottom circular ice. I tried the peas and decided I liked the ice better because I thought it stayed colder longer. My infusion center has ice available for me to use if I want to use it. I always bring an extra bag of ice just in case I need it.
- Transporting ice to infusion center- I used a cooler with a freezer pack plus take extra infusion ice bags.
- What to put the ice bags in- That is a personal preference. Some just put the ice bags on their feet and wrap a blanket around them so the bags don't fall off. Some use insulated lunch bags and put the ice bags in those. My hands and feet are small so I'm using some neoprene wine cooler bags that I bought at Target for $6.99 each. I figured I could use the wine bags later on. I'm still able to hold an insulated mug so I can drink really cold water and eat ice during the infusion. I have pretty small hands/feet which explains how I am able to use those Neoprene wine bags.
- Hand & Feet Protection- I wear thin sports socks on my feet when I ice the toes. The socks keep the rest of my feet warm during the icing. On my hands, I wear a pair of knitted wristlets/fingerless gloves to keep the rest of my hands warm. If you don't have knitted wristlets, you can make some from men's socks by cutting holes in the toe area. Some people take their feet/hands out of the ice periodically; however, I don't do that.
- Process- I let the infusion nurse know that i'm icing so we can coordinate when I should start the icing. Once I know when I'm going to start the infusion, I put the ice bags in the bottom of the Neoprene bags. I put the ones on my feet first and adjust the ice bags so my toes nails are covered. I then put the ones on my hands on and adjust the ice to cover my fingernails. My husband helped me with this process.
Tips to Help Take Care of Your Nails
- Keep them short
- Use a polish with strengthener ( clear if your onco does a nail check at your appointments)
- Learn to not use your fingernails as tools----- No more opening cardboard boxes/cartons with your thumbnail
- Do not use your fingernails as staple pullers
- Use garden gloves if working in the yard
- Use rubber gloves when washing dishes or using cleaning products around the house
0 - Time period for icing- You will for 1/1/2 hours in total= 15 minutes before the Taxotere infusion + 1 hour during the infusion + 15 minutes after the infusion. For Taxol, the icing period is 3 1/2 hours ( 15 minutes before the infusion, 3 hours during the infusion and 15 minutes after the infusion).
