Will 30% of Early Stage (1-IIIA) go on to metastasize??
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Just chiming in on statistics,
I had bc 24 years ago, was given tamoxifen and rads (tamoxifen was a clinical trial for me at the time). Now dx 12/15 in other breast extremely aggressive TN, IBC, kitchen sink thrown in for treatment. I'm on #16/33 rads. Being TN I'm envious of those that have hormonals in their arsenal. For those of us that are TN's once treatment is done, there is nothing until we progress. Oh for 24 years I kept my weight down, excersised, ate very carefully and here I am again.
What I want to say about stats, is if it's you then it's 100%. I get so tired of how rare IBC is, well wasn't for me. Or that I have a higher chance of recurrence due to node involvement and stage. I lost my aunt in 2013. She was a stage 1a in 2009, triple positive and it came back with a vengeance in 2012. She had all the hormonals, and all the recommended treatments. Even then "statistics" said she would do well as a stage IV, not so. So there are always variables in the statistics because we are individual and BC is a beast.
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I wanted to add, that the first time around with the beast I just don't recall all the input, stats, TN vs ER positive etc. Chemo was not the norm, just so many things that are different now. Yes we have made advances, more women live with BC, but the constant awareness at least for me was not there after a year or two. Maybe because I had the foolishness of youth on my side.
I do remember being told by the BS that I had a 50/50 chance of recurence. I didnt even ask what that was based upon.
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24 years is a long time, I don't think you could have changed anything. Sounds like you did everything right.
Good luck to you.
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As part of what must surely be the smallest cohort here (male and IBC) I'm quite relieved knowing there are no accurate statistics for my case.
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I go between looking at stats and then seeing so many defy it one way or the other. It truly is a crapshoot. Sure some have high chances than others but then you see those who did everything down to personal life style right progress. I see on these boards the word cured used so much. It worries me that if these people think cured that they won't be vigilant. Every time I see someone post they are cured I feel like going in there and saying there is no cure and be vigilant. It's amazing how many people think this way and it doesn't help when you have providers saying you are cured either. If you remain vigilant then should it be happening again, you have a fighting chance. Think you're cured then it'll be too late by the time you really start feeling problems.
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Another thing about the stats is that they typically do not say anything about time. Let's say that 30% of women DXed with BC will eventually die from BC. The recent study seems to confirm that. I pretty much accept, as someone DXed stage 3B, that it WILL come back one day and that barring freak accidents it is the thing most likely to kill me eventually. Thing is, I was 47 at DX. I am now 52. It makes a great deal of difference to me WHEN it comes back to kill me. We are all going to die after all. If I manage to achieve a normal lifespan or something close to it, I don't really care if BC or a bus kills me eventually. I strongly suspect that even if overall survival hasn't improved much for decades, disease-free interval probably has. I would still rather have a cure, but in its absence I will settle for many good years instead.
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Yep, Momine, I second that.
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Traveltext, I see we are the same stage, and sorry for leaving the guys out of my post. Bad habit. We don't get many men frequenting the boards, and I can see how it must be a bit overwhelming for a guy to read some of what goes on here
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Thanks Momine.In two years of posting here I've come across just two men, and one of those was last week. In any case I tend not to worry about gender as much as the topic being discussed. Outside of BCO, however, I'm very connected to the MaleBC scene through several websites and on Twitter.
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Hi Traveltext. A very tough situation you find yourself in, health wise, and with this particular cancer.
I think everyone here welcomes your imput on the boards and wishes you nothing but the best. I can only imagine being female in a male dominated cancer situation. Everything would be harder to deal with but I'm sure you have a great support system in place from your family and friends.
The best of everything to you in your future treatments.
GP
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Great points, all and as I face my tests this week, I am again so comforted to be among you. I can't believe what a huge role this board has played in my life.
Musing on statistics, I remember the important fact that they drive advocacy and research. Yes, it's a crap shoot, yes, it's 100% if you get it. It's all about us when you live in the cancer body, but really we are part of a global health crisis all of us.
I didn't fit any of the molds in this game, diagnosed at 39 with no apparent risk factors other than dense breasts. I am grateful for the more recent statistical analysis on young women, even if it is to acknowledge there is a huge hole in that area.
Through research and statistics, we have boards like these! I consider this board part of my treatment. I can debate, learn, and advocate. In fact, I got my oncologist to agree to an annual MRI thanks to conversations here. Now, MRI is considered a standard for dense breasted women at a certain risk level. Also more glorious statistics.
Hugs to all on this complicated journey.
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Traveltext you are the 2nd man I have encountered on BC.org. The other guy had introduced himself right away (I forget what thread). We all embraced him…and he quite the sense of humor too.
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Like LtotheK says, this board part of my treatment too. Crowdsourcing answers to questions is important, as is trying to help others, but better still is the fellowship and camaraderie, along with the good cheer and positive humanity found here by the bucket load.
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BosumBlues, a bone scan does not expose you to a lot of radiation the way a CT scan does. (Responding to your concern noted a couple pages back.)
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I'm getting a second bone scan this year. I've also had 2 CT scans. At this point it's necessary find any distant mets due to symptoms.
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FYI - early stage BC is considered stage 1 - stage 3. So if that stat does exist, it's not specific to Stage 1.
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Early stage I believe is stage 1 - stage 3A
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Yes, and stage IIIB and IIIC are commonly referred to as advanced stage bc because the cancer has either spread to lymph nodes and/or other tissue in the area of the breast, but not to distant sites in the body.
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One adjustment to Traveltext's post.
Those who have spread to the lymph nodes (either under the arm or near the breastbone) are still early stage. This includes Stages IB, IIA, IIB and IIIA. (And of course, Stage IA, invasive cancer with no nodal involvement, is also early stage.)
My understanding is that the reason Stages IIIB and IIIC are considered to be 'advanced' diagnoses is because of the presence of breast cancer cells either in the lymph nodes above or below the collarbone (i.e. somewhat more distant lymph nodes) or in the chest wall and/or the skin.
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I'm IIIa labelled as advanced local cancer with 1 lymph node and 7 cm tumour in all my reports.
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Just from people's responses on this site, recurrence doesn't seem to be as a big a factor.
I think if I knew how potential cancer cells were responding to treatment I would feel a bit more secure.
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Yup. No test to find out if any tx worked. That's what we are stuck with the rest of our lives. Hence when you are d/c from all active txs they emphasize vigilence. Things can change at any moment.
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Those who have chemotherapy before surgery (neo-adjuvant treatment) do find out if the chemo worked on their tumors and/or nodes from the post surgery biopsy. No remaining disease is called "pathologic complete response". But true, when we reach the state vaguely called NED (aka remission), there is no way of knowing if hormone blockers, etc are working until a recurrence happens. And there is no way to tell on a day to day basis to know whether there are tumor cells circulating in your body, or if they will jump your immune system and form into a palpable mass that is detected by you, or if they will even show up as a spot on a scan. I was told by my BS that all stages draw pretty level in the survival stakes after five years NED.
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BosumBlues my oncologist says the percentage doesn't matter. You can't be a little bit pregnant.
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Well odds and percentages matter to me... Honestly weighing those odds on chemo, tamox vx. ooph and ai, all the little percentage points. Would I rather have Luminal A than Luminal B? Hell yes... because percentages matter.
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Statistics are the only way we have to make treatment decisions, and the way the standard of care is developed. Still, someone will fall in the unlucky 3% or whatever it is, as I know all too well. But the other 97% will not.
(Actually I don't mean to disrespect intuition as a help with making decisions, but good luck finding doctors who will use their own intuition or yours. Actually, my onc respects mine and sometimes asks for it, because I have been right in the past.)
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The “wicket" style walk-through metal detectors, unlike the X-ray belts and rotary scanners, don't emit radiation--they are weakly electromagnetic and sense metals in our bodies or in or on our clothing.
Actually, it is theoretically possible for an early-stage bc patient to be “cured." Unfortunately, those lucky individuals will never be able to confirm that--only their survivors and pathologists will, after death from another cause, via an autopsy that shows no cancer anywhere in the (dead) body.
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The problem is when you have docs telling you you are cured when in fact who really knows causes many to lose vigil because why be vigilant when you are told you are cured? That's why I hate that term. If you can't say I am cured then don't throw that word out so loosely.
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As far as I am concerned, the word "cured" should not ever be used in connection with BC. There is no cure. There is no treatment that will reliably make the cancer go away and stay away forever. Even if you die of something else, all you had was a nice long remission, in my opinion, that made it possible for you to go out for non-BC reasons. As I always tell my stage 4 auntie, if you die of something else, you won.
What we have are really good treatments that allow long remissions, even in many stage 4 patients (like my auntie, who is 4 years NED after her stage 4 DX), and in this we are lucky compared to many other cancer patients.
As for treatment efficacy, I had neo-adjuvant chemo and had the quite amazing experience of being able to feel my tumor halve after each infusion.
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I, too, was elated to feel my tumor shrink from the start of chemo to become imperceptible a t the end. I didn't achieve pathologic complete response though, and while the surgery removed the tumors, I'm under no illusion that I'm somehow cured. However, give me bc over many other cancers and, certainly, over a heart attack.
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